It does sound like an ecu problem like its just shutting everything down. As scoff said these are what the vw's do when the codes dont match from key to ecu
It does sound like an ecu problem like its just shutting everything down. As scoff said these are what the vw's do when the codes dont match from key to ecu
Originally Posted by Gttnutter
I have pm'd rstuning via cliosport as they are a member but I will give them a call on my lunch break to get there advice's.
Soke to Paul @ RS tuning who advised the following - When i did your ecu i tested it on our PH1 to make sure it's working ok and the car ran fine. Not sure what to suggest really. Maybe try a TDC sensor on there?
i was on ebay any way james and found this for you mate
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-Clio-1...2em118Q2el1247
hes good for anything you might need for the 172 mate ive used him a few times and he get everything just right
Cheers for that but that sensor looks different to mine for a start it has the blue connector at the top (mins is black) and what is that cable coming out of the bottom?? Mine doesn't have that either
i have found out that the black ones are prone to failing and this replaces it if you email hime through ebay he normally answers up to about 10pm mate so hell help you out and tell you whats prob missingCheers for that but that sensor looks different to mine for a start it has the blue connector at the top (mins is black) and what is that cable coming out of the bottom?? Mine doesn't have that either
that's a sensor and a bit of wire with a connector on it to allow you to splice into your loom, not a sensor with 2 connectors.
the 2 wires from the sensor should run direct to the ECU with no funny business.
Doh
On this what would you guys says is my ECU ignition live? (Just want to make sure I am not totally special)
29 = ignition live
30 = pre-ignition live. Now, this might be a perminant live or if your diagram is to be taken literally then it may need to be non-powered once the ignition is ON. You could use a relay to do the switching. I suspect it'll be a perminant live though. It's something worth clarifying with the cliosport.net guys maybe
Or, you could test the theory by disconnecting no.30 wire the moment the engine fires to see if it continues running. Bit of a long shot I think!
I have the ph2 wiring:
there is a constant live via a 5A fuse to pin 30
the switched live is via a 15A fuse to pin 29, this also goes to the fuel pump relay
there is a constant live via a 30A fuse to the 'ignition locking relay' and the fuel pump relay.
do you have a PH1 loom to go with your PH1 ECU?
Ah, I wonder if his ignition relay isn't remaining powered up after cranking
correction, it's an 'injection locking relay' - item 238Ah, I wonder if his ignition relay isn't remaining powered up after cranking
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...u%20wiring.pdf
be careful though, this is PH2, so all may not be as it seems....
I see, the ECU latches it on. Is the fuel pump driven off that too ? Andy, do you have a component key you could upload for that diagram ?
It would be worth watching what that relay does as the motor cuts out. If the relay cuts out immediately before the engine stops then either the power to the relay is vanishing or the ECU is deciding to cut the engine for some reason. If the relay cuts after the engine has died then I expect that is normal.
I'll repeat, this is PH2, so you may need to adapt for your PH1 (although this list seems to be Renault wide)
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ngo/REPORG.pdf
I assume you have linked out the wiring that normally goes to "927" inertia / impact switch too ? I don't know if that is part of the engine loom. I know that the phase 1 certainly has that switch and the car will not run if it is open circuit.
Yes even though I have a phase 2 engine I managed to get hold of a phase 1 loom.
It is definatly bridged.
I even picked up a new TDC today from Renault thankful they had one on the shelf LOL I still have the same symptons.
Yet again I am going to go through all my wiring as I want to make sure it is 110% correct going to tidy it up this time as I go along.
Last edited by James5; 09-04-2009 at 14:04.
this should be a PH1 wiring diagram
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...U%20wiring.pdf
Like I said James it won't be TDC mate since it runs (and sounds OK) for that 1 second or so.
Did you have a listen to what that injector locking relay does ?
Standing in front of the car again checking everything over and I just can't see what the problem is
I have replaced the TDC (brand new from Renault), bridged the inertia switch, got 3 bar fuel pressure to rail, injectors are firing, fuel pump is on a switch and I have checked my wiring which to be honest isn't much required to get it running.
Live wires
Battery to starter,
Battery to alternator,
Battery to 172 engine loom,
Ignition barrel to battery,
Ignition lives,
Ignition barrel to 172 engine loom,
Earths,
4 x engine earths,
the usual interior earth points,
As said above the fuel pump is on a switch (Temporary solution for the time being)
??????????
Anyone got any more suggestions before I set alight to it all or better still a helpline LOL
Last edited by James5; 09-04-2009 at 23:08.
will take a look a relay now
I can here it clicking if I fiddle with the fuses
Read what I was saying about what the relay should and shouldn't do
If the ECU is killing the power then you really have to test the ECU on someone elses car to be sure it runs OK still.
check that the wiring to fuse 1 (30A) that supplies that relay is good, check the fuse is home (pop it in and out a couple of times).
interestingly that fuse also protects the fuel pump, I recall you saying that wiring the fuel pump direct improved things, that too would also point to a poor connection somewhere in that area.
btw, you should have 3 bar fuel pressure, not 3.5, maybe your gauge isn't that accurate? anyway, it 's unlikely to prevent you from starting
Have you tried this James?
Yeah traced number 30 it is defo a permanent live it is part of the original 172 phase 1 loom that connects to the battery (not even fettled with that wire)
Read what I was saying about what the relay should and shouldn't do
If the ECU is killing the power then you really have to test the ECU on someone elses car to be sure it runs OK still.
I have managed to find a bloke on the cliosport.net site whom will try my ECU on his car (its a clio phase 1 with 172 lump so like mine it will require the demobilised ECU to run)
Further update, had a 15 min play tonight to do some quick tests and tidy things up a bit and I found the following-
Fuel pressure to fuel rail 3.0bar,
Sparkies are firing with very good spark,
I then decided to take the fuel rail of tonight to make sure the injectors are firing to find that they were NOT firing this time???
I do defo think it is the injectors that have failed for the following reason the 172 standard Injectors I believe are Pico 250cc min @ 3bar 14.5 ohms (High Impedance). Now because I have used a modified alloy fuel rail from another car (Volvo Turbo) the standard 172 Injectors would not allow the alloy rail to be used (FPR fitment problems) so i had to source some injectors from a different car (Cossie). Cossie yellow spec (standard cossie injectors) Bosch 270cc min @ 3bar I have just found out that they run 3.5 ohms (low impendance).
So I reckon due to them being low impendance I cannot use in them in the high impendance injectors system of the 172 hence them not working properly everytime or if at all.
Anybody got some spare working injectors I could try pref 250cc min @3bar 14.5ohms??
Last edited by James5; 18-04-2009 at 15:13.
i should have a 182 lump arriving at mine on friday. Im a little way up the road from you in croydon. Your welcome to give them the injectors from this lump a try.
just re-read your post. And im being a div. Can you not refit the standard fuel rail, injectors and fpr?
Cheers for the offer matey but in order for me to use the standard 172 / 182 injectors I will require a phase 1 172 fuel rail, fpr setup as the phase 2 setup which you are getting is different.
Let me think how I could possibly modify my setup non renault fuel rail to use the standard injectors as it may be possible if I can relocate the fpr.
My engine is a phase 2 172 so in order for me to get it to work properly I would need the phase 1 setup, all I have left of my phase 2 setup is the phase 2 rail and 1/2 the fuel feed pipe no injectors.
Well no real progress todate (still not running but then not tried to fire her up yet) thanks to Ashy for the 172 injectors and Brigsy for a brass carb fuel feed which i have drilled and taped into my alloy T5 fuel rail to fit so I have been able to relocate the FPR of the rail all seems good so far. Got a slight prob with the rail in the standard 172 injectors, because the standard injectors are tiny compared to the Bosch type the T5 rail does not allow them to fit perfectly straight in the rail not run any fuel through yet so it may leak will have a play later to see.
Last edited by James5; 18-04-2009 at 19:51.
Slight update unable to use the volvo alloy rail with the standard injectors due to the standard 172 injectors being tiny compared to the bosch type. I have therefore had to revert back to the phase 2 172 plastic fuel rail and modifiy it so I can use my FPR.
why cant you use the std 172 rail and FPR?
You seem to be over-complicating things??
because I don't think there is an FPR in the clio rail - the pump does the regulation I think.
there is on the Mk1 172 engine, you're right the later ones don't have a FPR.
Could of leant you the rail too James... Let me know if you need it!
You don't want to be taking the risk with fuel rails and injectors that don't quite fit properly!! Trust me!
That is exactly why I will see how my mod goes if it doesn't work properly I will just buy the phase 1 parts from Renault
Did you see my post, one above your last one?
Nial your 172 rail does this have the fpr on it?
i have one that does and one that doesnt.
I'm thinking that I might need to convert to the PH1 fuel rail/ regulator, it doesn't look like the 172 fuel collector will fit into my tank.
actually, is it possible to modify my rail to use the regulator?
Can I try it out please matey
I'm not sure andy, I'll get a few pics of both types and upload them. THe ph2 172 rail has the FPR port and the outlet they are just blanked off! Maybe you could open them up and use then?
Ashy does your phase 1 rail have the Renault part number on it??
it should be 7700107405, and PH2 7700112777
James, I'm going to backtrack on my previous comment about not fitting the FPR ref pipe, it looks like the PH1 uses that pipe as the reg is on the engine, on the PH2 that pipe won't be used as the FPR is in the tank, the map must take each eventuality into account.
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