Disagree with the first comment, but yep, I'd agree that a low-lag 200hp gtt is more than enough fun.
Why do people chase numbers anyway though?
Trusty (~170hp, 200+lbs/ft) was way more fun to drive around/on track than my old Raider (~245/235) was. Less lag/quicker spool & better traction probably the main 2 reasons.
As noted from a previous comment in this thread, is wheel-spinning in 5th gear @ 100mph really that impressive? All that tells me, is that power is simply being wasted...
Originally Posted by Mart
i couldnt agree more. tune/build your engines for how you want it to feel and drive, not for who can get the biggest bhp
i think we all know the threshold a c1j is capable of, is there any point in trying to go beyond that when many people have already tried and failed.
if you want big bhp the c1j isnt really the engine for you, if you want a quick, fun lightweight car that will keep up with todays standard of cars then the c1j is more than up to the job
You had a wobbly piston tho
Chasing numbers is for people who dont know much. (Did kenobi really just say that?)
I go for power to weight ratio. Some bragging rights can be had there.
1/4 mile is the scientific bit in my opinion. Until its on paper it aint real.
You had a wobbly piston tho
I haven't heard that one for a few years. How did that come about? Was it even me?
As noted from a previous comment in this thread, is wheel-spinning in 5th gear @ 100mph really that impressive? All that tells me, is that power is simply being wasted...[/quote]
I dont believe that for one minute, not from a c1j anyway unless it had dustbin lids on as wheels
If you re read what I wrote, I said when it came on full boost in damp conditions it spun the wheels, this was with me driving, when the owner drives, as he knows how the car reacts it isn't so bad but was an example of how the car drives. Hopefully when he has his Internet back up he can post graphs from rolling roads so you can see the curves or lack of, within 1krpm it makes full power and doesn't drop off. If not he can explain better
Oh and I kno rolling roads are bs talk but the car should be at pod and you can make your own decisions from that.
It wasn't boasting, showing off or bull, chasing numbers as this isn't what the thread is about which alot of people seem to be missing.
The point is would the conversion make the 5gtturbo a better every day car
well im here,
not got the net so having to get on when i can at the mo.
The car has R888 tyres not dustbin lids, it has a good size T28 @ around 21psi. As Nick has stated traction is a issue as is driveability. Nick has managed to change lane in 5th while the wheels were spining ( I had slight ass nip as he is the only person except me to have driven it)
bhp wise i have no idea i dont like rr but last run at 19 psi on a .49 rear ended t25 it made 196hp and 188 fltlb. Im thinking it may be down to hard suspention and a very light car. Not the power spinning the wheels maybe as it hit light bumps causes it to break traction and then has enough to keep it spinning.
I was looking at the f4r as its very smooth and the get in and drive aspect. My c1j is very reliable. Problems have only really come from the previouse owner and others touching her.
This thread was setup purely to ask if the transplant was worthy of time,cost and wether the gtt shell requires a turbo to keep it fun.
there's always a point to boundry pushing! the world would be a boring place if people didn't compete, try harder, push further and while more often than not they get kicked in the balls when something breaks - well, atleast they tried. it's a hobby at the end of the day, not for everyone, but a buzz for those that enjoy it
there's always a point to boundry pushing! the world would be a boring place if people didn't compete, try harder, push further and while more often than not they get kicked in the balls when something breaks - well, atleast they tried. it's a hobby at the end of the day, not for everyone, but a buzz for those that enjoy it
Will your car spin it's wheels in the DRY, never mind the wet, of course they'll spin!
And of course, a worked on 2 litre will be good fun in a 5, especially with some low boost added.
The downside is the weight and the effect it has on an already front heavy balance. If making the best progress you can on windy lanes and 90° urban corners and roundabouts is your requirement then a lighter engine might serve better.
Otherwise, the 172 engine with 6psi WILL spin it wheels at 80mph on a dry road in 5th IIRC, at about 5000rpm just by pressing the loud pedal.
That car made, IIRC, 255bhp at the Track and Road single Roller in Rainham, which is East of London.
A pal has a n/a 2 litre in a Nova 4 door. Looks a very ordinary car. But the Vauxhaul XE (IIRC) engine had the two large twin side draught Dell'Orto or Webber carbs, cams, headwork, revs to 9000 and goes impressively well. It also has NOS. The problem is keeping it straight on the straights and going around the corners. When planting the loud pedal it pulls at least as hard as most turbo boost thumbing in, and it does it at just about any rpm, and there's no lag to speak of.
It's guessed that, without the NOS, it makes about 185bhp. It's plenty of fun, good for overtaking, and you don't have to molly coddle the turbo all the time.
What do we mean reliable??? standard state any engine i gaurantee a modern engine will have a component failure before a c1j will stop running. be that a pencil coil, coil pack , cam sensor crank sensor egr valve sticking air flow sensor failing. c1j will pretty much never let you down. a modern engine u take a risk everytime u switch it on lol.
You're quite right, but I think no-one here is talking about sensors failing, rather, talking about the engine itself, together with lubrication and cooling, not failing under 230bhp or so of load.
I have a turbo'd clio thats been run with 6 psi on stock internals (206bhp) then converted to low comp running 267bhp@12psi.
It seems to get loads of power (200+bhp) from the C1J people are having to use large turbos and a lot of boost. Obviously the transition from off boost to full boost is pretty brutal. As I see it a N/A engine produces a pretty steady power and torque curve however at any given point by increasing the intake pressure to 20psi above atmo your inevitably going to have a massive surge in both torque and BHP. This is obviously the traits that are causing the wheel spin/unwanted lane changes.
Now looking at an F4R engine as Chris has said they are capable of running sensible power levels (250bhp) with very little strain and with the introduction of very little boost. Obviously the less boost you have to use the more the engine retains it's original characteristics. With my last set up 267bhp and 262lb/ft@12psi I can honestly say that apart from 1st and 2nd, there was no issues what so ever with wheel spin etc....
Heres a dyno printout to show the power delivery (torque drops off at the top end due to the small comp housing)
Last edited by SP33DY; 16-05-2010 at 22:58.
Cool.. how was it at 206hp? and what did you do to lower the compression?
When you had the stock internals did you alter the injectors or anything?
TBH it was spot on at 206bhp you could be just as aggressive with the launches the same as in NA form but obviously with a stronger mid to top end. The injectors were swapped for a set of megane 225 items.
To lower the compression I took the easy option and fitted the 8.5 Wossners, I think if I were to do it again I'd get a meg 225 piston and have it copied to give 9.5 CR.
Have you considered fitting a meg 225 cylinder head to yours the same as Andyrg? I only suggest this because if you could get a meg 225 engine you could remove the crank, shells, pistons etc.... and fit them to your F4R block. This would get rid of your knocking bottom end and lower your CR for running a bit of boost. Or better still how about just fitting the complete 225 engine (saving money on head gaskets etc..) and squeeze the ND0/1 six speed gearbox in? I know Matt and Ashy said it was to big to go in the front, but in the rear?
That sounds quite straight forward, do the megane 225 injectors fit into the 172 rail and head as a straight swap? I quite fancy that bit extra...
The megane block sounds good but I think it may be a little costly, scoffs idea of dropping the crank from a 480turbo sounds a little easier and retaining the rest although no doubt I'll end up needing something like the megane gearbox if I went down that route..
For now I quite fancy a reliable low lag 200hp cheaper than throttle bodies and once the piping is in, it's just a matter of replacing the guts for more power..
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
