Sid dawns work

[dangerous dave]

Fking sh1te if you ask me..

The timing cover I looked at was a world of fail, no welds just glued in and not worth the risk, the push rod sleeves are another fail, they slipped on running up and rubbed on the head.. Just hope there's not much damage to the engine, filters, oil and a clean out costing more money for another member...

Was this stuff tested??

Run, run a mile..

If its a honest mistake then fire a refund to the member, but that won't help the oil costs and time taking this junk out..

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

shouldn't this be in the negative feedback... can a mod move it please...

seriously though , I hope this isn't why big steves cup only made 98BHP...

I thought the work looked good and he seems a nice chap...

[dangerous dave]

I didn't buy anything, it's not feedback..

I want to hear more without it being lost in the classifieds area..

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

I didn't buy anything, it's not feedback..

I want to hear more without it being lost in the classifieds area..

ok..., not the witty reply I had in mind but a fair comment....

[GTphil]

I heard a story of a timing cover letting go on the motorway and a **** load of oil being lost, think the engine managed to survive.

The ideas are great maybe the stuff just requires a little more testing/work to see results/reliability

[andybond]

seriously though , I hope this isn't why big steves cup only made 98BHP...

Will somebody call me Mart ?

The car made crap power due to sky high inlet temps. I suspect the car was running around 130bhp but was nobbled due to the high temps.

My car "lost" 30bhp on the roller.

( sorry for hijack )

[dangerous dave]

It was only glued on so I guess that's expected..

I just hate to see money spent, then the parts getting binned and more money needed to clear the mess up.. Lets hope the turbo etc hasn't taken any swarf..

[dangerous dave]

Will somebody call me Mart ?

The car made crap power due to sky high inlet temps. I suspect the car was running around 130bhp but was nobbled due to the high temps.

My car "lost" 30bhp on the roller.

( sorry for hijack )

I also think nothing could run in that heat, nothing turbocharged and not with that little fan they used to blow that warm dry air into the intercooler..

[Red October]

I bought roller rockers and sleeved rods, seriously sparkie is days away from building the top end up on a 2k+ rebuild............should I take a step back here?
Time, money and effort has gone into this massivley, I couldnt do it all over again.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I bought roller rockers and sleeved rods, seriously sparkie is days away from building the top end up on a 2k+ rebuild............should I take a step back here?
Time, money and effort has gone into this massivley, I couldnt do it all over again.

I would ask Sparkie for his opinion... he knows his sh*t... or wait for an update of this thread.

[dangerous dave]

With regards to the clearance, not all catch, 2 or 3 have clear signs of wear, but 2 sleeves have slid down the pushrod..

From that I expect he shouldn't use them even if your lucky enough for them to all clear the head..

As said, sparkie knows his stuff, he'll spot any problems..

[Nottswoody]

I heard a story of a timing cover letting go on the motorway and a **** load of oil being lost, think the engine managed to survive.

The ideas are great maybe the stuff just requires a little more testing/work to see results/reliability

Not a story that's a fact it was my 5. Full refund was given but not cost for parts and time. And that was on my fresh build. Engine is fine but ******* to refit and new crank seals were needed. Thought I'd put this up ages ago now have standard timing cover bashed out on mine I suggest anyone wanting a vernier just dose the same..

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Dave are you saying that with a hot spec cam,the pushrods are rubbing on the holes where the pushrods are?
I used to use ford ka pushrods because they were thicker (and free in most scrap yards ) and had this problem, in the end I opened up the pushrod holes to clear, also that's why I dry build to start with.

[turbo ted]

pushrod holes would have to be made larger in the head as matt says I used ford escort mk1 pushrods and also made a adjustable timing cover and all worked fine on my c1j.the timing cover now is on tnt andys car and pushrods got sold to mr raider who is gone off this forum.
anyone need some new timing covers made that work give us a shout pics below

[dangerous dave]

Dave are you saying that with a hot spec cam,the pushrods are rubbing on the holes where the pushrods are?
I used to use ford ka pushrods because they were thicker (and free in most scrap yards ) and had this problem, in the end I opened up the pushrod holes to clear, also that's why I dry build to start with.

Yep 285 with vernier, the sleeves are catching the head where the come through, not ideal.. A mechanic over the road popped over to give his opinion on the situation. I think the engine was turned over but it was missed as not all are touching and even when looking down knowing they touch, my eyes still can't see it.

I think the idea sounded good but it's for the bin, the ones you stated sound a better idea and a little work to make a clearance seems like less effort than these have caused.

This is my old gtt and its the original lump going back in after a 4 year break, hope its ok..

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I don't think Sids work should be written off that quickly......the idea is right. Are the pushrods still true and straight, valve springs not binding up and bending the pushrods?

[rs250nut]

Could you not solve this with a bit off welding, are the cover and push rod sleeves made out of steel? If so send them down to me and i could tig them up for you.

[Mart]

seriously though , I hope this isn't why big steves cup only made 98BHP...

Excess valve clearance & questionable cam timing is probably more the reason there. That, or there's an issue with these roller rockers...

[dangerous dave]

I don't think Sids work should be written off that quickly......the idea is right. Are the pushrods still true and straight, valve springs not binding up and bending the pushrods?

One of the offending sleeves is sliding up and down, if bent it's wouldn't surely.. This one catches the head..

I'm not picking on anything I haven't seen, the rockers and other things are cad and machined etc, this it's more DIY handy work.. It's steal and ally I think, the other mechanic didn't think mixing the 2 was a great idea as the heat expansion might be an issue as they were interference fit..

The what when where and whys aren't important now tho, the end result says these need to go back to the drawing board.. Anyone else should check there's just to me sure, I myself thought they would be a good idea, not so sure now.

[Brigsy]

Is the ratio of the rockers correct on steves car, that is the question?

I got a set of longer adjusters for the original rockers off sid. They look OK but no slot in the top or hex to adjust with. The stuff has potential but needs more development?

[TNT ANDY]

pushrod holes would have to be made larger in the head as matt says I used ford escort mk1 pushrods and also made a adjustable timing cover and all worked fine on my c1j.the timing cover now is on tnt andys car and pushrods got sold to mr raider who is gone off this forum.
anyone need some new timing covers made that work give us a shout pics below

It's not on there ATM, but maybe going back on when I find out how much lag I have and have to invest in a vernier LOL.

Great tip on push rods guys.

[GTphil]

Not a story that's a fact it was my 5. Full refund was given but not cost for parts and time. And that was on my fresh build. Engine is fine but ******* to refit and new crank seals were needed. Thought I'd put this up ages ago now have standard timing cover bashed out on mine I suggest anyone wanting a vernier just dose the same..

Thought as much but didn't want to name any names

[djinuk]

lay off his back just a tad guys, lets remember this mans a fellow rtoc'er, not a random guy in china trying to make a quick buck without any thought to those it may affect.

Some of his products have issues from the sounds of it, like many tuning/fabricated parts, check how may revisions of top mounts/rollcages/ engine parts you see kicking about, being that r5's are quite a niche market and the guys only doing relativly small batches i imagine its quite hard for him to test the product a great deal, therefore its only us that can really do that for him.

I dont even know the guy personally but if these issues with the products and hes happily offering refunds we shouldnt climb down the guys neck but more work with him to make it better as it will benefit us in the long run, its not every day u have a cad/cam designer on board making parts for a few cars.

On another note im not saying, dont make others aware of the issue,s but more lets just keep it constructive and helpfull.

[GTphil]

On another note im not saying, dont make others aware of the issue,s but more lets just keep it constructive and helpfull.

My thoughts exactly, and many above I expect, they more than likely just need feedback/development and this is the chance to offer it

[dangerous dave]

If something's this bad why be nice, there may be a few of these bouncing around in people's engines, hook them out now..

I said my bit there's lots of pic of various stuff and more can taken..

[JRP]

The first post was poorly written. His gear looked good. At least refunds are happening when required with no issues. It's not good that bits have failed but maybe a warning post might not have started with expletives

It is all almost experimental gear so I find it a tad harsh, I think he genuinely was trying to help people more witch hunting

[dangerous dave]

The rockers, not the rods failing or the cover.. If I wanted to fuk an engine up I could do that with some of my own pikey work, I wouldn't pay someone else for it.

Fuk the nicey nicey, member or not it's ball-sh1t..

[Mr Raider]

pushrod holes would have to be made larger in the head as matt says I used ford escort mk1 pushrods and also made a adjustable timing cover and all worked fine on my c1j.the timing cover now is on tnt andys car and pushrods got sold to mr raider who is gone off this forum.
anyone need some new timing covers made that work give us a shout pics below

Im still here lol must of been someone else fella

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Dave, I'm guessing you have spoken directly to Sid about this issue?

[dangerous dave]

He's rang but nothing, and a Facebook msg is also sent.. See what happens..

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

So.... You didn't do this before posting the original post on here?

[Trevhib]

If something's this bad why be nice?

Because it's about intent. Did he intend for this to happen? Maybe assume not for the time being.

For me it's less about what has happened and more about how he responds to/deals with it. If you can be civil in the meantime, hard as that might be, it might have a positive affect on this regrettable situation

So this needs sorting by Sid. Refunds don't sound like a problem but has he tried to contact everyone who has had parts off him?

With hindsight, a test/development mule should have been used. I hope this is a transition to success rather than a shutting down of developments

[dangerous dave]

So.... You didn't do this before posting the original post on here?

He rang, no answer, I couldn't help myself and added the thread...

He could go on the quiet and try/get a refund but that leaves everyone else in the dark.. Looks like Matt was in the dark, we didn't read or hear about the other failure.. You can't miss this thead and I think whoever had the part to go on wont be bothering..

Again just these, not anything else he's made, that stuff might be tip top,,

[Sparkie]

as i said to Red October when he questioned me on this subject....

when i ran the piper 390 cam, the lift of the cam was quite high and the side to side motion of the pushrods was more than that of a 285 type cam. - i wore grooves into the edge of the pushrods, where it rubbed aginst the head.
the sleeves are making the pushrod thicker and no doubt they will rub, this will potentially cause the outer sleeve to become disclodged if the friction against the hole through the head is enough?
i've not currently had a *good* look at Red October's pushrods, as i'm miles away from fitting them yet.
are they sweated on or epoxied?

[olidaviesuk]

Ok I have to agree with Trevor here. Going and personally attacking someone on here without giving them a chance to deal with the situation is really not on!

I've had a few bits and pieces from Sid to use in my racecar and as far as i'm concerned he's always made it very clear that he specialises in rapid prototyping and one offs - ANYTHING that is made in this way is sometimes going to have teething problems - its just the nature of the beast. (for example you regularly see F1 cars not finishing races because they are put together with parts made in the same way)

Having been involved with tuning fast road and racecars for a good while now it wouldn't be the first time i've come across aftermarket parts failing (quite a lot of the time from supposedly reputable tuners..... K-*** and even more well known brands) - It p*sses you off when it happens and usually ends up costing a lot of money.

HOWEVER. Sid is going out of his way to design and produce these parts - not to make a fortune from it - as he's not making any real £ - but to help develop the 5. If you've ever had to produce a CAD drawing then find someone to make a part from it - you'll know it costs fortunes - i've been there and done it... If you p*ss him off and don't give him a chance to sort the situation out he'll just chuck it in, then the community as a whole will lose a useful resource.

With regard to the pushrods - anything wider than std always needs material taken out of the head or they will catch... Not saying anything about the sleaving or how appropriate to the purpose it was - but if they were rods out of a KA or something - you'd have had the same problem...

Not wanting to start an arguement or anything like that - just stating a few points that seemed to have been overlooked.

Cheers All,

Oli

Because it's about intent. Did he intend for this to happen? Maybe assume not for the time being.

For me it's less about what has happened and more about how he responds to/deals with it. If you can be civil in the meantime, hard as that might be, it might have a positive affect on this regrettable situation

So this needs sorting by Sid. Refunds don't sound like a problem but has he tried to contact everyone who has had parts off him?

With hindsight, a test/development mule should have been used. I hope this is a transition to success rather than a shutting down of developments

[Ian S]

What I find hard to comprehend is why everyone is not simply using Ford Escort mk1 push rods, or Ford Ka, or whatever, instead of custom fabricated sleeved original items which must(?) be a lot more expensive.

Did no-one know about the Ford ones?

Opening up the head a bit?

It would be nice if people wrote all this down and gave it to me to put in the articles section. It would be helping the community instead of keeping it all secret.

I mean, FFS, people spending shed loads on this ancient engine and getting it wrong!!! In 2013!!! It's like none of this has been done before!!!

After having seen the insides of the 16 valve Fiat Fire 1.4 litre I'd want to use that instead. I only know of about 190BHP made from one (turbo'd), but no push rods, no rockers, ladder braced crank, alu bottom end, sump and cams cover, 'staggered' lobes on the 16V cams, easy to access pulleys, internal water pump, light weight and small engine.

Not sure if the rods are forged. Has pneumatic lifters but solids could be done. Jim felt even though the crank bearing faces were narrower it would be fine.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I'm now actually feel sorry for Sid, he was doing something new for a change.
Yes a test mule could have been used. But who was ever going to offer their engines up to do so?
Dave, it seems you went in balls deep before talking to Sid, ok fair enough you spent the money and it seemed it may have been 'wasted' but I seem to remember Sid having orders for things like rockers, then making them....only to be told by some people they didn't want them in the end, if I were Sid I'd be boiling over this....!

The ford pushrods were a known thing, Ian you may have not heard of this, but was there a question in the first place? Not everyone wants to give away their secrets of success for free.

I can see the top mounts and other developments being canned because of this.

[Alex]

Some of the stuff I saw on the internet looked fantastic from him however, as far as I'm concerned anyone that bought them was taking a risk to some degree. Perhaps Sid should have made it clear when he sold them? Maybe he did?

Renault likely spent £1000's in R&D for the parts used in the engine. You can't expect someone to come along, knock up a few CAD desings (as clever as that is) and expect the end componemts to work perfectly every time if they haven't been tested.

The rods rubbing on the head should have been identified on the build, did no one notice?

[Logg]

Thanks Dave for posting this as I was contemplating getting these bits over the winter. I hope there's not been any damage to Matts engine.

Also thanks for making this public knowledge.

Wasn't the roller rockers nothing to do with RTOC.org

[Ian S]

Not everyone wants to give away their secrets of success for free.

But that's my point, that 'I'm all right Jack' attitude. People keeping secrets that they don't know that a lot of other people already know. Not working together for a common good.

It why the human species as a whole is in the sh1t hole and dying off instead of everyone working together to fix all the problems. Most Humans would rather build more aircraft carriers and better ways to kill their neighbours than cure disease and extend life.

[Adey aka Ewok]

if your changing it from standard in anyway your taking a risk at the end of the day. its good to see someone pushing the boundaries with new design and development

[dangerous dave]

Sid has replied and he said he was happy to look at the cover again but that was patched up to save to posting again.. It will be used to set up and then binned as in the long run doesn't seem save to run..

He said that he didn't know the rods would catch, ok, few of us did but there still sliding about on the rods, catching or not there hardly locked in locked on..

They need canned..

Remember I didn't buy anything, I just say what I see.. I have loads of the other one odds and alls been well, this it's one bad one after the other, the first patch up on the cover had silicon inside..

I wouldn't want anything in my engine other than oil..

[olidaviesuk]

Quite a lot of this knowledge has come from people developing the 5 for racing, whether drag, circuit, rallying, sprinting - much as the people on here are a nice bunch, nobody is going to give away for free something that they've spent '£0,000's' on getting to work...(You'd be suprised just how little development work has been done on the C1J) and its just not part of the motorsport culture.

Personally i've got no problems with pointing people in the right direction, but if I've had to go to the time and trouble to research something then design and build it - then get it to work - i'm not going to give it away. Unfortunately a lot of this 'secret squirrel' culture comes from wanting to be in front and staying there - not everyone will get this but....

For example (and not dragging people into a discussion) - I didn't see scoff or hi5 volunteering the designs for his head or inlet manifold when he was going for his record runs - but I was dead keen to have the designs for it - so when it came up - I bought it....

What I find hard to comprehend is why everyone is not simply using Ford Escort mk1 push rods, or Ford Ka, or whatever, instead of custom fabricated sleeved original items which must(?) be a lot more expensive.

Did no-one know about the Ford ones?

Opening up the head a bit?

It would be nice if people wrote all this down and gave it to me to put in the articles section. It would be helping the community instead of keeping it all secret.

I mean, FFS, people spending shed loads on this ancient engine and getting it wrong!!! In 2013!!! It's like none of this has been done before!!!

[Romil Davda]

My 2 pence:

I have seen and spoken to Sid and he is an easy going guy with some good ideas that he has developed/progressed. He is open to feedback. I think it's great that someone is actually taking the initiative to design and develop items and products that could either make you more power/make the engine more reliable or just save you money! I am saying this based on the concept and ideas Sid has. Gone are the days of the top tuners and fabricators, we all use "our own guy/girl".

As for the actual product, I have not purchased this, so I cannot comment on the product itself.

I've spoken to so many people about ideas they have and things they want to see. Sid is one of the few people who have pulled their finger out and produced items to go on the shelf. All be it the items are not to standard (currently in debate)

[Trevhib]

Yes a test mule could have been used. But who was ever going to offer their engines up to do so?

Saleable products with no alpha testing risk the beta testing ending in disaster, like with these rods.

So, without any kind of testing of parts, they must be sold with this communicated fully to the buyer.

Maybe this communication happened. If it didn't, it's something that needs to be put in place by Sid immediately for his own piece of mind as well as for the buyer's information

[5teve L]

Fking sh1te if you ask me..

The timing cover I looked at was a world of fail, no welds just glued in and not worth the risk, the push rod sleeves are another fail, they slipped on running up and rubbed on the head.. Just hope there's not much damage to the engine, filters, oil and a clean out costing more money for another member...

Was this stuff tested??

Run, run a mile..

If its a honest mistake then fire a refund to the member, but that won't help the oil costs and time taking this junk out..

I think you are bang out of order with the way you have done this Dave, I mean it wasn't even your car or parts
Yes by all means draw attention to the fact something has a design fault or needs a re-think, but fuk me you seem to have gone straight for the throat, do you have a problem with Sid ?

As people have said, he was only knocking up parts to try to help the club along, not to line his own pocket & do a runner.. Refunds have been offered/sent so I don't see a problem.
New products with no testing will no doubt have teething problems.....

[casper]

I cant actually believe theres a secret squirel syndrome regarding the c1j.lol.I really couldnt be bothered lifes too short.Glen(hi5) must be quite open about his build as its getting replicated.Makes me laugh,someone copies a build and makes out its his own work.Secret squirel.haha

[dangerous dave]

I have no problem with anyone, never dealt with the guy, just saying what I see.. I won't be losing sleep, if it was me if most likely kept quiet and taken a loss, like Matt will.

[Red October]

Lot of members sticking their 2 penneth in who havent A, seen he parts and B havent bought any.

As far as secrets go my head work has been tough to say the least because of the culture. Fair enough if they want to be secretive as theyve paid their dues in time and money. Ive had done that much ive forgotten what it is ive actuall done!

Rang sid today and left him a voice mail plainly explaining politley he may have some questions to answer on here, character wise hes a stand up guy and im sure he will cover any financial costs incurred.

As far as dangerous dave and this thead goes, im glad someone has opened their trap if there is a problem.
I might have tackled it a couple of notches down but my principles are the same as daves, im sure he'd do it again to avert a potential financial catastrophe or perhaps looking out for members safety. If your knocking his best intentions of the points ive just stated then your a tool imho.

[Sid Dawn]

Evening all..this will prob be my only post on this thread and it will be short..have been intouch with Matt and it seems Dave has took a few small problems and gone to town with them..Matt says the cover is sorted and the rods only rub a bit??

I think it's safe to say I will not supply anymore parts to Matt. (don't bothor asking Dave)

There are plenty of guys on here who have spent time with me on email or face to face to know how easy going and thoughtfull I am...

I have a few projects on the go at the moment and have guys that know there stuff helping me do them..

Thats it...I let you carry on.