nick k , is your phase 1 clio a valver, if so i gather your thinking about williams wishbonesif so the same approach may work, but might only need adjustable camber bolts, and a different anti rollbar set up, i bet combrake even do eccentric/concentric top mounts also
Yea the clio is a j plate 16 valver with a track - Front 1358mm Rear 1324mm. So was planning to bolt the wish bones, ARB, shafts, Power rack straight to the 5 sub frame, then feck about with the chamber after.
King pin inclination.Originally Posted by Scoff
Oli it has to affect the effective camber in corners. Caster probably isn't the right term but the effect will be similar.
I'm not saying it's not an acceptable bodge but its a bodge none the less. 30 mins to modify the turrets has to be worthwhile. Even if you can't feel it others might.
So this is how it looks with just the camber correction bolts. What ya think?
Gary give us some pics of it dropped on the floor
what are the benefits v's hassle/cost of the valver widetrack? surely some R888's over regular tyres will have a better benefit per £?
The main advantages are the extra track width improves the wheelbase track ratio which benefits handling but the main advantage is the extra castor achieved.
Positive castor adds dynamic negative camber - negative camber is increased on the outside wheel and decreased on the inside wheel which adds cornering grip and aids 'turn in'
Another advantage of the extra castor is that you don't have to run as much static negative camber - the tyres are flatter on the road which aids traction and braking in a straight line.
Castor is the angle from vertical between the top and bottom pivot points when viewed from the side. When the top is further rear than the bottom, this is positive castor.
King Pin Inclination (KPI) is the angle between the top and bottom pivot points when viewed from the front and has the opposite effect on dynamic camber than castor. Too much KPI is a bad thing as it undoes the good work of positive castor.
This site has some useful info:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...and-scrub.aspx
does this have any real effect on a day to day road car though, as most people's 5's on here are (when they are on the road lol)
not trying to be negative, just seems like alot of grief for not alot of gain imho, but then again i'm not the oracle by any means
Looks like I have gained 30mm of widthil drop it to the floor when I have track rod ends fitted. That is it basicly under load there will be a bit more load when on wheels as the stands are in slightly tho.
Oli I was jokingI'm aware of the differences and have been for about 15 years
Thanks tony, I had no idea what it was called.
Renault must have realised this as being a drawback during the phase 1 years since the phase 2 has exactly this change with it's top mounts further out. This is what I was afraid people will loose if they leave the top mounts alone and use camber correct bolts.
For now I have cheated and used camber correction bolts until I can take it to someone like mat to get it set up properly by someone who knows what that are doing.
Any way for now here's how it sits.
visibly widerlooks good, camber doesnt look too bad either but difficult to say, also worth looking at the camber as you move the wheels from straight ahead to either lock.
Yeah I thought it looked wider but from the centre of each tyre was 1350mm over the standard 1320mmil have a look and see how the camber looks on lock. Looks like the same sort of camber it had before so should be good enough to drive it to get it set up.
you'll probably notice in this weather if theres too much camber itll wheelspin easier.
That looks awesome gary.
Cheers log
Hopefully it has better traction with the new camber as the wheels would spin in 3rd easily
I'm thinking I need to space out the rear now. How far can I go without ruining the bearings every 500miles?
AgreedThat looks awesome gary.
After reading that info that woz linked i can safely say there is somesome seriously wrong with my 9 suspensionIf you full lock it, it just stays there and you go around in a circle all day long
Something too look at another day...
could be top bearings, a trackrod end or a bottom joint on the wishbone.. but also something is bent..Agreed
After reading that info that woz linked i can safely say there is somesome seriously wrong with my 9 suspension
Its had new ball joints, track rods ends and wheel bearings for the MOT, but its not been right from day one, at speed if you hit a white line or water it changes direction, it has been tracked also.
Thinking 2 new arms and OE front shocks with bearings etc. Have a good look at the sub frame also and then get it tracked and see... Least i can rule out them bits then.
What about the top bearings? in the struts..?
There did'nt seem to be any play i them but i'll get them replaced also anyway..
My 9 does exactly the same thingAgreed
After reading that info that woz linked i can safely say there is somesome seriously wrong with my 9 suspension
I've fitted new wishbones, ball joints, track rod ends, new dampers and springs, it's had the tracking done yet still does it
So it would appear that they are just ****e thenMy 9 does exactly the same thing
I've fitted new wishbones, ball joints, track rod ends, new dampers and springs, it's had the tracking done yet still does it
Does an R9 have the same differences in top mount design as a GTT (Phase 1 & 2)?
As said, it's probably shot top mount bearings.
Yeah probably lolSo it would appear that they are just ****e then
Although I have noticed my has incredibly tight turning circle
Top mounts are fixed on a 9, the bearings are at the lower end of the spring
Did my conversion for £60
I think the cost can stay down on the Valver Wide Track conversion (Schwartz can confirm) as you can get away with keeping the GTT driveshafts?
I know if you go wider again (Williams or 172/182) you will need to look into driveshafts, and hubs in the case of 172/182.
Valver driveshafts were also used and the cost of fitting one new cv boot and new track rod ends
Am I right in thinking that the standard track of a gtt is 1320? That Haynes rekons. Could someone please measure the front track for me?
Last edited by SCHWARTZ; 30-12-2012 at 17:07.
Front track is 1323.
If the autodata is correct the front end on the 5 should be 1323mm and the clio 16v is 1358mm, so you should of gained 35mm, the strut top need to be moved by 17.5mm, which on a phase 2 will fowl the shocker topAm I right in thinking that the standard track of a gtt is 1320? That Haynes rekons. Could someone please measure the front track for me?
Im going to measure the clio and the 5 and compare the results, as in the kpa, and all the other bits then decide where to put the shocker when re-drilling it, I think a small access hole will be required to get to the koni adjuster.Am I right in thinking that the standard track of a gtt is 1320? That Haynes rekons. Could someone please measure the front track for me?
Which is why you mod it like this (sorry Chris stole a pic from your profile hope ok) my current 5 has the same mods to the front strut top's.
Grinder TimeWhich is why you mod it like this (sorry Chris stole a pic from your profile hope ok) my current 5 has the same mods to the front strut top's.
James, are your top plate off set like scoff's are, i take it that moves the shocker forwards and backwards( caster is that called )
Cheers guys I was measuring where the floor meets the tyre so as there's a bit of extra camber those measurements sound right.
I was thinking of doing that James but with a tank cutter so its nice and curved and leaves most of the upright part.
Mine are the same as Scoffs
Are your top mount plates not OE then??Mine are the same as Scoffs
Ok so il drill the holes 17.5mm over, also I think it was you mat who I saw do this but is it worth drilling another hole further forward on the swing arm and move the lower ball joint toward the front of the car for more dynamic camber is it?
They are std item's no mods to mount's just the top turret has been modified
Last edited by James5; 30-12-2012 at 17:39.
In Chris's pix it looks like the shock has been twisted maybe again for more dynamic camber if that's correct, what about doing that?
Need to ask Chris what arms etc he is running ???
He's used silly long arms and welded longer flanges on to the shocks to reach the hubs. No good for handling but I wouldn't want to be turning at the speeds his car does anyway
Sort of, it was for a clio 172.
Would it be worth doing or would it have different affects on a 5 do you think?
Really depends on the main use of the car, mostly track get loads of caster on there, if its used mostly on the road, not so much.
If you have ever been karting, you will see caster in action, for example before sitting in the kart turn the steering wheel to full lock and you will see the kart lift the front off the ground, depending on how much caster you have will determine the self centre action of the steering, ie you can basically let go of the steering wheel of the kart, but you would have to help to centre the steering of something like an old land rover.
One of the mods I did to a Subaru sti wrx recently, was to make some caster plates up and fit them into the lower arms, the driver of the car (ok he is an older chap, but still competitive) dropped over a second off his lap time around brands hatch, in f1 terms that's light years....
Had 17deg hubs on a rc car changed to 22deg and turn in was amazing
It is a road car but hoping to do a few track days when its working
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