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  1. #1
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    valver running gear

    Im in the process of swapping over my wishbones, arb, hubs and drive shafts for valver items. Is there a certain way i need to drill the new holes further out in the shock tower? Or can i just take the new track width subtract the original track width, half it and move the holes out that amount whilst still keeping them in-line?

  2. #2
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Ph1 or ph2 shocks and top mounts?

    If your using ph1 items you only need to fit camber bolts and all will be good, this I know as its how I did mine.

    Can't really help with the ph2 items though

  3. #3
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    I sold you my ph1 adjustable top mounts
    All my stuff if ph2
    I have camber correction bolts so will try those as well.
    do the r5 track rod ends have enough meat on them for the extra track?

  4. #4
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    I sold you my ph1 adjustable top mounts
    All my stuff if ph2
    I have camber correction bolts so will try those as well.
    do the r5 track rod ends have enough meat on them for the extra track?
    Oh yeah lol, I haven't actually used them, still running standard ph1 top mounts.

    Yep, mine did just fine, I fitted new items as a matter of course

  5. #5
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    ace i will be getting new ones would have got valver items but there out of stock

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    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Make sure you clean the threads on the track rods and cost them in copper grease.

    Your running koni shocks aren't you?

  7. #7
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Yeah phase 2 yellow koni shocks.

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    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Getting ph1 versions would cost too much then

    If you used ph1 top mounts and camber bolts you might get away with redrilling the bottom mounting hole on the strut

  9. #9
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    The konis are pretty new so will be keeping them. Worst case il just re-drill the shock tower. I have no problems with drilling holes in it

  10. #10
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Im doing the same as you but i have the clio koni shocks also. Let us know how you get on, you doing the rear beam too i take it?

    Another question! I take it the 5 sub frame is the same width as the clio valver sub frame so it all adds up!?

    Im also going one step further and fitting the ABS and power steering off the valver too

  11. #11
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    I'm not doing the rear beam at the mo, only doing this because it all came up cheap and I needed a new cb and wheel bearing so thought is just do the whole lot. I may just space out the rear beam
    I don't know about subframe but I will be measuring the new track and subtracting the std track off of it.

  12. #12
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Afaik the valver wishbones won't fit the 5's subframe. The mounting points and rubbers of a valver are bigger

  13. #13
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Pretty sure they just drop in matey. I will find out tomorrow

  14. #14
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Will you get back even if they don't?

    Good luck tomorrow!

  15. #15
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Lets hope so.......

  16. #16
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    I still have both so can Mix and match bits. The bushes are a lot bigger but look like they will fit. I will post up whatever I find

  17. #17
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutuur View Post
    Afaik the valver wishbones won't fit the 5's subframe. The mounting points and rubbers of a valver are bigger
    They defo fit, the valver bushes are much bigger but they do just fit

  18. #18
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Right like stated the swing arms are a direct fit. I also managed to use my gtt pollybushes for the arb on the valver arb(slightly thicker).
    Using camber correction bolts I managed to get the hub pretty straight see pix. Obv its still in the air but if anything when its got the weight on it I will have a better idea.

  19. #19
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    YES............... Loving your work son

  20. #20
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    cheers fella it aint pretty but it does the job
    if euro car parts get their finger out and get my bits in il try and get some pixs up of the camber when dropped down

  21. #21
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    That would be great I think in going down the knife and fork route and re-drilling the suspension tops.... but yea be good to see how it looks on chamber correction bolts. Cheers.

  22. #22
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    if the bolts cant cut it i will be re-drilling the shocktowers and using the correction bolts to fine tune it

  23. #23
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    Ph1 or ph2 shocks and top mounts?

    If your using ph1 items you only need to fit camber bolts and all will be good, this I know as its how I did mine.

    Can't really help with the ph2 items though
    That would screw up castor, no ?

    Better to move the top mount by the additional track I'd have thought.

  24. #24
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    cheers chris, thats what i will be doing if the correction bolts dont move the hub enough.
    Im using ph2 top mounts shocks and the clio hubs if anybody is interested

  25. #25
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    Re: valver running gera

    I don't know much about chassis setup mate but even my limited knowledge tells me you would have less effective camber in cornering if you 'correct' at the hub.

  26. #26
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    That would screw up castor, no ?

    Better to move the top mount by the additional track I'd have thought.
    Nope, castor is perfectly fine, feels spot on even before I got the camber settings right it felt better than the Gtt setup

  27. #27
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    ok matey then il measure the new track and minus the old one halve whats left then move the holes by that much then use the bolts if i have to.

  28. #28
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    where would the origional track width be measured so i can take my measurements from the same place as i forgot to take them at the start
    Inside of the wheels, outside of wheels, outside edge of the disc???

  29. #29
    Non-member Matt@CodeRedMotorsports's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Centre line of each tyre.

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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    Nope, castor is perfectly fine, feels spot on even before I got the camber settings right it felt better than the Gtt setup
    Oli it has to affect the effective camber in corners. Caster probably isn't the right term but the effect will be similar.

    I'm not saying it's not an acceptable bodge but its a bodge none the less. 30 mins to modify the turrets has to be worthwhile. Even if you can't feel it others might.

  31. #31
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    Oli it has to affect the effective camber in corners. Caster probably isn't the right term but the effect will be similar.

    I'm not saying it's not an acceptable bodge but its a bodge none the less. 30 mins to modify the turrets has to be worthwhile. Even if you can't feel it others might.
    On a ph2 I'd agree as the strut angle is different due to the top mount and the flange where they bolt to the hub, just ask HAndy how much trouble he's had getting all the caster and camber settings right but on ph1 all that happens is push the bottom of the strut out and forward a smidge.

    The valver wishbones alone won't introduce a massive amount of castor as the Gtt subframe and valver subframe are fractionally different where the wishbones bolt on, if that makes sense, I'm crap at explaining stuff like this.

    A little extra castor is no bad thing though, helps with turn in from what I understand, one thing my Gtt seemed to be lacking quite abit.

  32. #32
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    On a ph2 I'd agree as the strut angle is different due to the top mount and the flange where they bolt to the hub, just ask HAndy how much trouble he's had getting all the caster and camber settings right but on ph1 all that happens is push the bottom of the strut out and forward a smidge.

    The valver wishbones alone won't introduce a massive amount of castor as the Gtt subframe and valver subframe are fractionally different where the wishbones bolt on, if that makes sense, I'm crap at explaining stuff like this.

    A little extra castor is no bad thing though, helps with turn in from what I understand, one thing my Gtt seemed to be lacking quite abit.
    The phase 1 and 2 have different suspension geo ?

    All I'm saying is that you will affect the effective camber in corners, and that it may have the opposite effect to which you're hoping. It will reduce effective camber in the outside wheel in corners. You can visualize that I'm sure. This may be a bad thing with anything less than a very stiff setup. I don't know though ? Or maybe that few degrees is not enough to worry about. Again I don't know. It's probably not significant enough to make an instantly noticeable difference to but with that many uncertainties and for the sake of 30 mins I think it's worth doing properly.

  33. #33
    International Area Rep Tutuur's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    so they do fit!

    with my 9 it's a other story, i tried fitting 19 wishbones but they wouldn't fit because the bushes where far bigger. gtt has the same size bushes so i assumed they wouldn't fit too

  34. #34
    East Midlands Regional Rep Os8472's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    The phase 1 and 2 have different suspension geo ?

    All I'm saying is that you will affect the effective camber in corners, and that it may have the opposite effect to which you're hoping. It will reduce effective camber in the outside wheel in corners. You can visualize that I'm sure. This may be a bad thing with anything less than a very stiff setup. I don't know though ? Or maybe that few degrees is not enough to worry about. Again I don't know. It's probably not significant enough to make an instantly noticeable difference to but with that many uncertainties and for the sake of 30 mins I think it's worth doing properly.
    Yeah the ph1 front struts are basically a campus setup, the strut top sits bang on centre of the hole in the strut tower where as the ph2 is off centre. Where they bolt to hub is slightly different too, on the ph1 the bolt holes on the strut are both equal distance from the main body where as the ph2 the bottom bolt hole is further out. I think if you check the factory camber castor settings of a ph1 and 2 are pretty much the same but how the strut sits is very different, the ph1 setup lends itself to a valver wide track a lot easier than ph2.

    Yes the camber does change with the valver setup and standard ph1 struts and mounts but mine only showed 1.5 extra degree's of negative camber but this was easily fixed with the camber bolts. The ph2 setup I think we're a lot worse for this as the strut angle is different, I think HAndy found he gained 2.5 degree's of negative camber.

  35. #35
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports View Post
    Centre line of each tyre.
    cheers mat. i will re-drill the shock towers and use the camber correction bolts for the fine tuning. I have been wanting to get it to you for some time now to have it set up properly, but its never running long enough to do so hopefully when this is all done i can get it down to you

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    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    one thing i will mention is that valver track rod ends are too long for the gtt rack even with the valver swingarms

  37. #37
    Non-member Matt@CodeRedMotorsports's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    cheers mat. i will re-drill the shock towers and use the camber correction bolts for the fine tuning. I have been wanting to get it to you for some time now to have it set up properly, but its never running long enough to do so hopefully when this is all done i can get it down to you
    No worries

  38. #38
    Committee, South East Regional Rep James5's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    one thing i will mention is that valver track rod ends are too long for the gtt rack even with the valver swingarms
    Thats strange considering you are using the rest of the setup, glad you finally fitted I was going to pm you the other day and ask to buy it all back

  39. #39
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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by Os8472 View Post
    Yeah the ph1 front struts are basically a campus setup, the strut top sits bang on centre of the hole in the strut tower where as the ph2 is off centre. Where they bolt to hub is slightly different too, on the ph1 the bolt holes on the strut are both equal distance from the main body where as the ph2 the bottom bolt hole is further out. I think if you check the factory camber castor settings of a ph1 and 2 are pretty much the same but how the strut sits is very different, the ph1 setup lends itself to a valver wide track a lot easier than ph2.

    Yes the camber does change with the valver setup and standard ph1 struts and mounts but mine only showed 1.5 extra degree's of negative camber but this was easily fixed with the camber bolts. The ph2 setup I think we're a lot worse for this as the strut angle is different, I think HAndy found he gained 2.5 degree's of negative camber.

    the phase 2 set up with valver wishbones wont allow you to run less than 21/2 degrees negative camber on the wheels, with camber bolts, (that said if your looking for a good track set up,might be spot on) if you re thinking of doing the strut tower bolt holes,dont bother either, makes the shock sit almost at a positve angle, which really makes the strut compression angle totally ****e. phase 1 top mounts or compbrake items needed to dial in/out castor, and phase 1 struts needed or possibly re drilled hub mounting flanges on phase 2 struts needed to get the hub to sit at the correct angle in relation to a good strut compression angle. i found with camber bolts used on a phase 1 set up(but with more castor due combrake top mounts and valver wishbones) that i could set the camber at 1/2-3/4 negative, on the floor under load.,seemed to be a bit of discrepency between the turrets,good old renault i will be rose jointing the front end sooner or later, fancy some more width

  40. #40
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    So in a nut shell, the valve running gear fits, Re-drill the strut top to correct chamber.... Win.

    Scoff, As im fitting the Valver ABS also, can the wheel speed signal be intercepted some how and used for some sort of traction control if i go for stand a lone Adaptronics??

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    Re: valver running gera

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    Right like stated the swing arms are a direct fit. I also managed to use my gtt pollybushes for the arb on the valver arb(slightly thicker).
    Using camber correction bolts I managed to get the hub pretty straight see pix. Obv its still in the air but if anything when its got the weight on it I will have a better idea.
    that strut has about 1/2-3/4 degree camber already, when you lower it to the deck under load it will gain another 1 1/2 to 2 degrees

  42. #42
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick k View Post
    So in a nut shell, the valve running gear fits, Re-drill the strut top to correct chamber.... Win.

    Scoff, As im fitting the Valver ABS also, can the wheel speed signal be intercepted some how and used for some sort of traction control if i go for stand a lone Adaptronics??

    yes to the second part

    if you want to run a ****e strut compression angle then go with the re-drilled turrets

  43. #43
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Thats the max the camber correction bolts can do it was just to show really. you have to take into account that the floor slopes down to the right so it is pretty square to the ground in the flesh.

    So are you saying not to drill the shock towers then handy

  44. #44
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Handy i have clio Koni suspension too, Does that make any difference ?? This camber thing melts your head..

  45. #45
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by James5 View Post
    Thats strange considering you are using the rest of the setup, glad you finally fitted I was going to pm you the other day and ask to buy it all back
    there would have been a steep surcharge

  46. #46
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    2 degrees negative camber is what you want for track isnt it? whats that going to be like on tyres for road use?
    what about re-drilling the shock towers only slightly over to allow the camber correction bolts to dial most of it out?

  47. #47
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick k View Post
    Handy i have clio Koni suspension too, Does that make any difference ?? This camber thing melts your head..

    i dont know about the clio strut geometry, sorry .

    wouldnt mess about to much unless you can get your hands on a camber/castor gauges to be honest, i played about with mine for basicly 2 days , trying different things

  48. #48
    Non-member Nick k's Avatar
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    Re: valver running gear

    I have a compass, set square and protractor if thats any good

  49. #49
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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    2 degrees negative camber is what you want for track isnt it? whats that going to be like on tyres for road use?
    what about re-drilling the shock towers only slightly over to allow the camber correction bolts to dial most of it out?
    2 degrees is a fair bit, for road use, im running 2 1/2 on the rear , yeah i will let you know

    it wont dial out enough ,by fettling the holes on the turrets, the bolt holes in the strut flanges that bolt to the hub are the problem, to much negative camber on the strut when used with 16v wishbone, to be able to dial out some of the camber with the wider 16v wishbones a phase 1 or adjustable phase 1 type top mount is need to get back some positive camber, hence the inline with the turret hole strut centre, as the wider wishbone pushes the strut out at the bottom anyway by about 15mm, it also adds positive castor,as the ball joint/wheel sits 5-6mm further to the front of the car, than the gtt wishbone, the phase 1 struts with the inline bolt pattern on the hub flange will help keep the hub at a more positive camber angle in relation to the tyre on the road, if you want more camber then i suppose you could use this set up and re drill the turrets to gain you slightly more non adjustable negative camber, and slightly more compression angle on the strut or the phase 2 top mount,which will give a lot more non adjustable negative angle, pushing the top mount centres closer together. a bit long winded ,but i hope that makes more sense
    Last edited by HAndy; 28-12-2012 at 21:27.

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    Re: valver running gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick k View Post
    I have a compass, set square and protractor if thats any good



    no it wont, but a 2 foot level or a boat level with a vertical vial

    a bit pikey but, if you can mark on the vial where the bubble sits in relation to the outer line markers, or draw it on a bit of paper(so you dont forget) you could use that mark as an indicator for when you set up the new strut /wishbone position

    ie the 2 ft level vertical up against the tyre or boat level up against the disc or hub face

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