Re: Project raider- semi o.e.

**rs250nut** · 12-12-2010, 20:46

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

ok you just posted some pics... must have read my mind... looks good... what springs or retainers are you running? you keeping stock cams?

I'm using a full supertech valve train with inconel exhaust valves and stainless inlets 0.5 oversize. I would have liked to use ferrea but it's bloody expensive stuff, I don't really want to use the standard b16 cams as from what I have been told they are pony for boost, ideally I would like to use pro1's but we will have to see what Santa brings. I can't build it up fully yet as I need some new lma's, my head came with the old type obd1 Lma's which can stick and cause a racket. The spring type lma's from the nsx are the ones I'm going to use as these work better with high lift cams.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 12-12-2010, 22:03

Originally Posted by rs250nut

I'm using a full supertech valve train with inconel exhaust valves and stainless inlets 0.5 oversize. I would have liked to use ferrea but it's bloody expensive stuff, I don't really want to use the standard b16 cams as from what I have been told they are pony for boost, ideally I would like to use pro1's but we will have to see what Santa brings. I can't build it up fully yet as I need some new lma's, my head came with the old type obd1 Lma's which can stick and cause a racket. The spring type lma's from the nsx are the ones I'm going to use as these work better with high lift cams.

Ive been looking at some supertech springs with T1 retainers, ill keep stock valves for now.. Our Lma`s sounded fine when running so ill just re use them aswell... along with stock cams

just dont have the funds to improve with any of this yet.. could problem pick some cheap gsr cams i guess... maybe you could just find some C4 cams for know, i know they aint the best option but like you said, these will be better than yours now.. just get finding a shell mate!!!

**rs250nut** · 12-12-2010, 23:10

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Ive been looking at some supertech springs with T1 retainers, ill keep stock valves for now.. Our Lma`s sounded fine when running so ill just re use them aswell... along with stock cams

just dont have the funds to improve with any of this yet.. could problem pick some cheap gsr cams i guess... maybe you could just find some C4 cams for know, i know they aint the best option but like you said, these will be better than yours now.. just get finding a shell mate!!!

It is now at the top of the things to do list along with a turbo so I can make a down pipe and screamer tube and a clutch so the gearbox can be bolted on and slung in the car. I down have the cash for a twin plate so will hopefully use a cc 6 puck sprung centre plate and hope it lasts.

**rs250nut** · 27-12-2010, 00:21

So many times in the past have I got pissed off with jubilee clips, either slipping with the driver or them breaking, I decided I could not have this problem when racing, I want it to be able to come apart quickly and be super reliable so I'm going to do the whole fuel system in -8 the main coolant hoses with -16 and the breather system with -10. I may also if time and money allow do the charge pipes with v-band clamps.

Just a few of the fittings I got from eBay super cheap with a load more on the way, I should have a fair few left so later on may be selling a few super cheap.

**Woznaldo** · 27-12-2010, 01:24

I love the use of AN-X fittings, just make the whole bay look more professional and business like. It's the minimum standard on aircraft.

**MFaulks** · 27-12-2010, 11:08

Nice project thread RS

What sort of static and dynamic compression are you going to be running? Head looks good chap. Have you looked at the TheOldOne website?

There’s some other stuff here you might like if you haven't seen it? The CNC blocks are nice. Some of the tech discussion doesn't quite tie up, but the results are there and documented. It would be nice to see results for acceleration pulls and what load the motors will take in a true dynamic than effectively static state.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1575817

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-tuning-results/447351-highest-hp-4g63-engine-2007-a.html

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 27-12-2010, 11:55

Wow some extreme work in that thread.... The orginal billet wheel looks like some of the 72mm cheater wheels in the outlaw class...

**rs250nut** · 27-12-2010, 18:49

Thanks Martin

The static compression will end up around 9.0:1 maybe a little higher as I had the head shaved a little. As to the dynamic compression I'm unsure, this will depend on camshaft selection and wether or not it's in Vtec, maybe. I'm on a real steep learning curve at the moment as I'm a pro painter not a pro engine builder and this is my hobby, that said it's this kind of input I need to help me get to the top of the learning curve

Endyn and RLZ do some nice cnc head work and would have gone with RLZ if I had not heard about there shocking customer service. Mike at Laskey racing offered me a good deal on a complete head package so went with him, all his head work is done by Port Flow Design in California who have been responsible for some top work for the likes of Cosworth,TRD,Nascar.

Some of the stuff in that thread are what dreams are made of, maybe one day if I win the lottery.

**MFaulks** · 27-12-2010, 19:18

Well your build looks nice, and look forward to seeing it come together

Dynamic is easy enough to work out (excluding any ram tuning effects) and as you say need to know your cam specs. Static doesn't really tell you much, dynamic is more informative and will be able to judge whether you will be ok with what ever fuel grade you are choosing to run. You have a nice clean chamber, compact and fast burn so you will be able to be much higher than the old conservative dynamic 7:1 rule of thumb, but I'm sure you have some good advice on that already. Might be worth making a chamber mould though... see plug position, relative to the dome and flame front path, just a thought.

Yeah, know what you mean by dream dream dream... anyway, hope to see you out there next year.

Rob, yes nice compressors... on my latest venture with Clee I seem to be dreaming about compressor wheels.... sad init

**rs250nut** · 27-12-2010, 19:32

To start with I was sure I wanted to use q16 or vp import but after seeing what these fuels do to aluminium parts due to their high oxygen content I steered clear, Im hoping on c16 if it's available at a decent price.

SPECIFICATION SHEET FOR C-16

(Typical Values) Specific Gravity: .735 @ 60°F

Lead: Yes

Color: Blue

Motor Octane: 117

Reid Vapor Pressure: 1.85

Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+

Distillation:
10% evap @ 211.5°F

50% evap @ 213.1°F

90% evap @ 215.8°F

E.P. @ 233.3°F

Production: Elmendorf, Texas USA

Availability: Sealed Drums

Rev: 07/00

**BriC** · 27-12-2010, 19:50

Originally Posted by MFaulks

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1575817

That's awesome

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 28-12-2010, 19:35

that would need some serious amount of boost control, 1200hp jump in 1500revs

i dont think any tyre could hold that

**rs250nut** · 28-12-2010, 20:16

I have just caught wind that the new 67mm efr from Borg warner is available in a t3 frame exhaust housing, something I may wait for instead of the pt 6765

**MFaulks** · 28-12-2010, 20:28

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

that would need some serious amount of boost control, 1200hp jump in 1500revs

i dont think any tyre could hold that

kinda why I think they were really loading in a static incremental fashion, would really like to see how this motor pulls itself up by it's shoe strings

What do you think of the Holset HX50 compressors?

**Dave Reed** · 29-12-2010, 08:28

Originally Posted by rs250nut

To start with I was sure I wanted to use q16 or vp import but after seeing what these fuels do to aluminium parts due to their high oxygen content I steered clear, Im hoping on c16 if it's available at a decent price.

SPECIFICATION SHEET FOR C-16

(Typical Values) Specific Gravity: .735 @ 60°F

Lead: Yes

Color: Blue

Motor Octane: 117

Reid Vapor Pressure: 1.85

Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+

Distillation:
10% evap @ 211.5°F

50% evap @ 213.1°F

90% evap @ 215.8°F

E.P. @ 233.3°F

Production: Elmendorf, Texas USA

Availability: Sealed Drums

Rev: 07/00

Forget that cr@p ....

You want to be using this;

HIPERFLO TURBO ULTIMATE

UNLEADED RACE FUEL

RON 102, MON 90

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 29-12-2010, 10:42

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Forget that cr@p ....

You want to be using this;

HIPERFLO TURBO ULTIMATE
UNLEADED RACE FUEL

RON 102, MON 90

Depends on its purpose.. That fuels developed to meet FIA regs for race cars and prob the best out there for them to use, they cant roll up to race events with Q16 sloshing in the tank.. and its dam cheaper than VP fuels.. BUT might be all well and good for alot of race cars but **** might hit the fan at 10:1 cr and 50-60psi boost. Think id still go for the C or Q16 or E85.. But then also there is not point in say a porsche 911 with 350hp with Q16 in the tank, completely pointless.. so Hiperflo would suit that car very well... All down to the tune and purpose...

**Dave Reed** · 29-12-2010, 12:26

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Depends on its purpose.. That fuels developed to meet FIA regs for race cars and prob the best out there for them to use, they cant roll up to race events with Q16 sloshing in the tank.. and its dam cheaper than VP fuels.. BUT might be all well and good for alot of race cars but **** might hit the fan at 10:1 cr and 50-60psi boost. Think id still go for the C or Q16 or E85.. But then also there is not point in say a porsche 911 with 350hp with Q16 in the tank, completely pointless.. so Hiperflo would suit that car very well... All down to the tune and purpose...

Well I've seen back to back test's with C16 and this stuff and the engine it was used on made an extra 100hp with the hyperflo.. Still what do I no about fuels and your right every engine is different.. Just thought I'd offer a possible cheaper/better fuel

**rs250nut** · 29-12-2010, 12:45

Originally Posted by MFaulks

kinda why I think they were really loading in a static incremental fashion, would really like to see how this motor pulls itself up by it's shoe strings

What do you think of the Holset HX50 compressors?

I have not really looked at holset turbos much, the one you mentioned won't flow enough for the power I'm looking for. The precision and Borg warner units seem to be smashing it in all classes of drag racing at the moment. The new Garrett gtx range of turbos sound promising but have yet to see any back to back comparisons.

**rs250nut** · 16-01-2011, 16:54

The o.e mounts I have have far too much movement for my liking so in a bid to stop the standard drive shafts breaking I set about looking for an alternative set of engine mounts, hasport and avid both do nice sets but come in around $300 dollars plus another $100 for the torque mounts. Add to this the shipping cost of around $60 and then import duty these would have set me back at least £250-300. You can imagine my delight when I brought these puppies for half that on eBay.

Machined out of billet 6061-t6 aluminium with polyurethane bushes inserted in there strip series hardness these should keep the shafts straight. The guy had them fitted to his civic for less than 500 miles and could not put up with the noise from the vibrations. That wont bother me though what with an open exhaust and two 044 pumps buzzing.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 16-01-2011, 17:05

Sweet, i need to keep my eye of for a set.. one of the last things on my list tho, i want the car all up and running first..

**rs250nut** · 16-01-2011, 17:18

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Sweet, i need to keep my eye of for a set.. one of the last things on my list tho, i want the car all up and running first..

Trying to find an eg that's not rusty for the right money is harder than I first thought. I prepared to go anywhere in the country for one now. Spoke to a guy about one off pistonheads, nice tidy car captiva blue with no sunroof. Then he blows the head gasket would of been even better (cheaper) but the car was in Scotland and I would have had to drive it home.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 16-01-2011, 17:22

Yeah trying to find a cheap rust free EG is hard.. ours isnt mint by far.. When we first started the EG project they where all over and very cheap, about £200-£500 now there through the roof!!! You not fancy an EK?

**rs250nut** · 16-01-2011, 18:22

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Yeah trying to find a cheap rust free EG is hard.. ours isnt mint by far.. When we first started the EG project they where all over and very cheap, about £200-£500 now there through the roof!!! You not fancy an EK?

Not sure really the ek would be harder to get light, also I have spoke with hauser racing to supplie me with a pre bent 8.50 cage for an eg.

**rs250nut** · 25-01-2011, 22:24

Went over to the old lady's garage to fit a few bits last night, fitted the water pump, new oil pick up tube and strainer, and the windage tray

After fitting these I bolted up the new moroso baffled oil pan with pre welded turbo oil drain and another provision for temp sender etc

I need to get it up on the stand now just short of a few long bolts. Then Friday a major part of the project should turn up

also looking at these at the moment to an alternative to exo's

http://www.comp.co.uk/wheels/popup.asp?wheel=5

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 26-01-2011, 22:40

Nice Rim... I think once your major part turns up things will get going well...

**rs250nut** · 29-01-2011, 21:19

Sha moan mother fcuker, I have a car to put my engine in now, picked it up off eBay for the princely sum of £560. Best monkey I have ever spent.

So this morning I fcuked work off to start on the puppy, removed most of the interior so I could scrape the sound deadening out, super thick and a right bar steward to get rid of. Within a couple of days it should be ready for welding and then the 8.50 spec cage.

Going back down there tomorrow for round two.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 29-01-2011, 21:43

Nice One!! If you was local id be round to give you a lift... Nice colour car, im sure its going to look awsome when finished...

Bargin too..

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 30-01-2011, 11:19

oh im sure youve done it already, but if not, give the inside of the rear arches a good clean, under the arch liners etc, and get a bit of wax on em', dont want it looking like an EG`s archs after splashing on a cage

**rs250nut** · 20-02-2011, 13:17

It won't be long until I start bolting all this together so I thought I better pull my finger out and clean up the gearbox. I started with a wire brush and a load of degreaser which took for ever, bollocks to that so I payed a visit to my local machine mart, I brought a load of wire brush attachments for the drill and grinder which worked a treat, after an hour ninety percent of the crud off.

In between all the bolts and hard to reach areas I used an attachment which went in the end off the drill. So after getting all the crud off I gave it a quick final degreaser and applied some etch primer, as I dont have a compressor this will all be done will arse hole cans. Coat of etch

At this point I could have done a lot more prep with filler etc and removed some off the casting marks but I thought hey as long as it's clean and functional I don't give a monkeys. So while the etch was still a little tacky I went straight on with the top coat, I don't like celly arse hole cans so got hold of some pre mixed 2k cans in gloss black

Came out half tidy in the end considering I did not spend much time prepping it, I do it every day so it's the last job in the world I want to be doing. Also going to be changing most of the bolts to stainless items. I will post a pic later of all the items used.

**Adey aka Ewok** · 20-02-2011, 13:33

Hope your only using stainless bolts for none stressed parts not engine to gearbox and gearbox mount bolts?

Looking good tho how long till it's all together?

**rs250nut** · 20-02-2011, 13:42

The bolts for the bell housing and mounts won't be stainless as these are quite a fine pitch thread which I don't have. All the bolts around the casing which hold brackets etc will all be stainless. You think an m12 stainless bolt would snap?

Not sure when it will be finished, the car is booked in to have a cage fitted on the 5th of march so after that I can really get cracking. Turbo, ecu and cams are at the top of items I need now.

**Adey aka Ewok** · 20-02-2011, 13:50

I can snap m10 stainless with a spanner im sure your engine will be trying to twist things alot harder than I would?

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 20-02-2011, 14:02

Looks like your getting there now. Where is the car booked in at? i havnt even started to build our motor yet, the shells been shipped of to a unit for storage aswell for a bit. I wont be out for the first round of HKS, nor prob the the 2nd.. im just going when im ready...

**Scoff** · 20-02-2011, 14:08

I wouldn't use stainless bolts either mate, stick to 8.8's

**rs250nut** · 20-02-2011, 14:19

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Looks like your getting there now. Where is the car booked in at? i havnt even started to build our motor yet, the shells been shipped of to a unit for storage aswell for a bit. I wont be out for the first round of HKS, nor prob the the 2nd.. im just going when im ready...

The car is booked in with Hauser racing for an 8.5 spec cage in cds, They did a pre bent kit for an eg but no love for the ek. I would love chromoly but it's another £500 on top. I really could do with the chromoly cage as the ek is proper lardy. I've not built my engine up yet as I don't want to leave in my old lady's garage, **** scared some one will pinch it. I did have my heart set on competing in all the rounds of the hks but I want the car to be reliable and super fast straight away. By the looks of things there should be some proper fast fwd cars out this year, I see some guy brought a complete car from the states with gsr motor sleeved s372r etc

9s or bust lol

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 20-02-2011, 14:22

Originally Posted by rs250nut

The car is booked in with Hauser racing for an 8.5 spec cage in cds, I would love chromoly but it's another £500 on top. I really could do with the chromoly cage as the ek is proper lardy. I've not built my engine up yet as I don't want to leave in my old lady's garage, **** scared some one will pinch it. I did have my heart set on competing in all the rounds of the hks but I want the car to be reliable and super fast straight away. By the looks of things there should be some proper fast fwd cars out this year, I see some guy brought a complete car from the states with gsr motor sleeved s372r etc

Yep, was at Yasir garage, made over 850hp on his dyno.. where is the pride in that tho ?? Also there is a few on civiclife which could be fast... What gearbox is that S80??

**rs250nut** · 20-02-2011, 14:35

Yeah it's a bit bollocks really, could have done the same but I would know feck all about the car and learned nothing. Gearbag is an s9b from a 1.8 vti same as yours I think, I may have to look at changing the final drive as on a 24.5 inch tire it's good for 164mph in fourth

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 20-02-2011, 16:34

Originally Posted by rs250nut

Yeah it's a bit bollocks really, could have done the same but I would know feck all about the car and learned nothing. Gearbag is an s9b from a 1.8 vti same as yours I think, I may have to look at changing the final drive as on a 24.5 inch tire it's good for 164mph in fourth

Yeah same box.. ratios aint great... need to look at some options.. which wheel are you going for? exo?

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 20-02-2011, 16:50

Originally Posted by Scoff

I wouldn't use stainless bolts either mate, stick to 8.8's

Aint most stainless bolts 8.8 anyway?

Think the stock bell housing bolts + mount bolts are 10s on the honda so pretty hard plus fine pitch as its tightening in to alloy, you cant swing on them like a monkey tho.. as for the box side of things i dont think it would matter, the stresses in the box aint forced on the bolts, the casing it self will let go first..

Just stick with OE parts John...

ive never heard of a bell housing get pulled apart.. things like this happen first when your pushing big HP

**Scoff** · 20-02-2011, 19:48

Originally Posted by Rob@Backyardracing

Aint most stainless bolts 8.8 anyway?

no rob, they'd be A2 most likely. there's different grades sure, but none have the properties of even an 8.8 steel. they'll be OK if they're not holding something critical or something thats under load,

I cringe when I see guys with 6mm stainless cap heads holding their fuel rails in !! accidents waiting to happen.

**rs250nut** · 20-02-2011, 19:57

Wow that's proper ruined, I'm not sure on wheels or tires yet, the 13x8 compomotive wheels are nice but I doubt they do a 3.5 x 15 skinny, still not sure on tires either. My crazy side says bollocks go with a 26 inch but then reality kicks in and tells me I have a stock gearbox.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 20-02-2011, 20:44

i wouldnt touch 26`s with a pole lol

25`s a good medium of you think you will over-whelm the usual 24.5....

id be more thinking on boost control though, 23`s will cut 1.6 60fts as everyone knows

**rs250nut** · 21-02-2011, 00:13

I did look at a 25 inch mh but they are 10.5 inch wide is that not against the rules? I think with the gearing I have I will go with the smaller tire.

After getting out off bed at 2.00 pm today I went over to the garage and pulled the engine out, massive great hole soon to be pained and filled with the b16 and a big ass turbo

All the inside is stripped to the bare bones now, all I need to do is take the stock fuel tank out and the peddle box.

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 21-02-2011, 15:00

Soon cracking on aint you....

**rs250nut** · 21-02-2011, 18:21

I don't have any light in the garage so only at weekends at the moment until the evenings lighten up.

**rs250nut** · 23-02-2011, 21:37

Had the loom out of the car for a while now so I thought I would put it on a bit of a diet, all the crap from the tailgate first along with the seatbelt pre tensioners and a bit from behind the dash. I would say there is nearly 4-5kg of wire in the bag.

I'm trying to get hold of some manual window winders to lose a bit of lard out of the doors and take even more wire out, im not going to chop it anymore until I have decided on a ecu.

**rs250nut** · 07-03-2011, 21:06

Took the car up to hauser racing on saturday so they can start fitting the cage and my god what a workshop they have. Top fuel, super pro, pro mods 622ci v8s everywhere. I think the car is in safe hands. Massive thanks to Mike for helping out trailering my car up to northants and back, stuck in a 2 hour jam on the M1 so busted out to some old school garage beats with on looking cars thinking we were a pair of loons. Got back to his unit with the trailer and could not put it anywhere, full to the brim with new and used gtt spares, the man must have enough parts to keep everyone on the road

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 07-03-2011, 22:36

Good stuff... You didnt happen to see a white eg there? Guy from civiclife building a drag car and said his cars down there for a cage too... i wanted to know if hes having a shoot mount fitted

**rs250nut** · 07-03-2011, 22:47

Ian the engine builder up there walked us round most of the workshop and I cant remember seeing a civic, 150mph traps need shoots is he going that fast?

**Rob@Backyardracing** · 07-03-2011, 22:57

Originally Posted by rs250nut

Ian the engine builder up there walked us round most of the workshop and I cant remember seeing a civic, 150mph traps need shoots is he going that fast?

I think so, there is a couple of guys both building eg`s with high power in mind..

Thread Tools