Options..

[5teve L]

Following on from my thread on the engine failure I'm a bit lost what to do next.
Options so far.

1. Over-bore the steel liners @ £22 a bore, fit over-sized forged pistons (approx £530) & go for low comp which should give me an in-between comp ratio due to the block being decked (I think thats right) which would prob be pretty good for big power.

2. Start again & rip the cam out, go back to cast liners (£150) with standard spec forged pistons (£530), get the whole lot lightened & balanced @ a cost of £240 & be stuck with a scrap block with 3 decent shortened steel liners.

Both builds will require headgasket, bolts, sump sealant etc, etc...

I am hoping to get started with buying parts over the next few months so this certainly won't be a fast build due to having a family, if I get it back on the road before RTOC pod day (or Phil ) I will be happy...

[SCHWARTZ]

How is the block looking?

[shaggy]

Following on from my thread on the engine failure I'm a bit lost what to do next.
Options so far.

1. Over-bore the steel liners @ £22 a bore, fit over-sized forged pistons (approx £530) & go for low comp which should give me an in-between comp ratio due to the block being decked (I think thats right) which would prob be pretty good for big power.

2. Start again & rip the cam out, go back to cast liners (£150) with standard spec forged pistons (£530), get the whole lot lightened & balanced @ a cost of £240 & be stuck with a scrap block with 3 decent shortened steel liners.

Both builds will require headgasket, bolts, sump sealant etc, etc...

I am hoping to get started with buying parts over the next few months so this certainly won't be a fast build due to having a family, if I get it back on the road before RTOC pod day (or Phil ) I will be happy...

I would go with option 2 steve. it must be a big ****er for you at the mo

[SCHWARTZ]

id go with option 1(just to be awkward) If this isnt going to happen again with the steel liners and would give you slightly more cc's

[5teve L]

How is the block looking?

Not sure, will let the machine shop look at those hairline cracks...
I'd prefere option 1 but Prob be going with option 2 though as any cracks can't be good

[SCHWARTZ]

looks like if the block is no good thats your only option matey

[philr5t]

Following on from my thread on the engine failure I'm a bit lost what to do next.
Options so far.

1. Over-bore the steel liners @ £22 a bore, fit over-sized forged pistons (approx £530) & go for low comp which should give me an in-between comp ratio due to the block being decked (I think thats right) which would prob be pretty good for big power.

2. Start again & rip the cam out, go back to cast liners (£150) with standard spec forged pistons (£530), get the whole lot lightened & balanced @ a cost of £240 & be stuck with a scrap block with 3 decent shortened steel liners.

Both builds will require headgasket, bolts, sump sealant etc, etc...

I am hoping to get started with buying parts over the next few months so this certainly won't be a fast build due to having a family, if I get it back on the road before RTOC pod day (or Phil ) I will be happy...

id go with a clio lump

[5teve L]

id go with a clio lump

Looking at best part of 3k for that phil as i looked before... Lot's more involved as well.

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

id go with a clio lump

...id buy an evo steve instead........

[philr5t]

how much do you want to spend on this rebuild mate

[philr5t]

it was to reliable jesus

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

it was to reliable jesus

...sorry steve,couldnt resist..., option one sound a plan, "if ye seek high boost..ye see high bills"...

[5teve L]

Thanks. Matt

Phil, as cheap as i can, i'm thinking it won't be any cheaper than £1000 though

[TrixNFlix]

Steve have you considered the b18ft route? 8v, logg manifold, efi, granted the inlet has Volvo on it,( James will be wincing as he's reading this) but costs will be kept down. I'm starting to bore myself now just an option matey.

[Dave Reed]

Steve what are you looking to do with the car?? That's the first thing you want to sort... Fast road, all out drag car, every day car???

My old engine that I built with Standard everything with L&B, low comp pistons, cam, and port matched head.. That see me run a 12.2 @ 115 without the gas.. (I'm sure Scoff said it was about 250bhp according to his 1/4 mile thingy) Only reason I went forged, was because I new I wanted to run quiet a bit of gas.

[5teve L]

How do's Dave, I'm looking at fast road/drag car, it's not a daily but I would use it on the road sometimes.
I was thinking forged just to be on the safe side TBH.
I'm not even sure I can save the block now after seeing the cracks in it

I suppose I could go standard & then spend the extra cash on aftermarket ign...

[Dave Reed]

How do's Dave, I'm looking at fast road/drag car, it's not a daily but I would use it on the road sometimes.
I was thinking forged just to be on the safe side TBH.
I'm not even sure I can save the block now after seeing the cracks in it

I suppose I could go standard & then spend the extra cash on aftermarket ign...

I would just go standard imo n keep the boost at sensible levels on the road, that's what i always do, obviously in the heat of a battle maybe a lil more I still even kept the liners standard with the gas, lasted quiet a while longer than I expected! Still though, only 1 failed, that's not to say that something didn't go wrong on that run, never bothered to investigate as I always thought they wouldn't last...

You get away with a lot doing 1/4mile racing as it's only a short blast..

You start building high spec engines and you will spend lots of money trying to keep it maintained!

[5teve L]

I would just go standard imo n keep the boost at sensible levels on the road, that's what i always do, obviously in the heat of a battle maybe a lil more I still even kept the liners standard with the gas, lasted quiet a while longer than I expected! Still though, only 1 failed, that's not to say that something didn't go wrong on that run, never bothered to investigate as I always thought they wouldn't last...

You get away with a lot doing 1/4mile racing as it's only a short blast..

You start building high spec engines and you will spend lots of money trying to keep it maintained!

Whats sensible on the road then Dave TBH I used to run around 1.5 bar on the road, this time I was only at 18 psi, something was deffo not right..

[Brigsy]

Id go for standard liners meself unless your planning on running lots of gas. If the blocks badly cracked it bin it imo

[Dave Reed]

Whats sensible on the road then Dave TBH I used to run around 1.5 bar on the road, this time I was only at 18 psi, something was deffo not right..

A standard car
Well you've also got to think about what a normal everyday clutch can handle, start going paddle etc and they become harder to drive and dont last..

Thing is, is if you build a decent enough engine u'll see around 200 at about 18 to 20 psi (with a T28rs which is what I run).. Make it as efficient as you can, that's the key and it will make good power under less strain.

I also see that you want to go EFI? thing is, is if you do then I'd build a higher comp engine. Maybe pick another engine up (standard 1) and just throw it in and rebuild you MSM one (as long as it's salvageable) for the EFI conversation. You'll prob get an engine 4 about £100.

[5teve L]

Ok, after a bit more investigating the block is deffo scrap, has a crack on the outside that looks like it's been leaking a while..

[markey b]

i take it your engine is a skimmed deck msm one too?

mine doesn't even have forged pistons and its been fine since i've had it (got it in 2005) running 27psi

only problems i've had are ones that i've caused...

why get forged pistons as standard ones are ok as long as you get fuelling right, they are just an added expense when it does go pop

[philr5t]

Ok, after a bit more investigating the block is deffo scrap, has a crack on the outside that looks like it's been leaking a while..

good job i have good eye sight to spot those crack

[SCHWARTZ]

if youre thinking of efi as well as needing a new block i would seriously consider B18ft'ing it

[philr5t]

A standard car
Well you've also got to think about what a normal everyday clutch can handle, start going paddle etc and they become harder to drive and dont last..

Thing is, is if you build a decent enough engine u'll see around 200 at about 18 to 20 psi (with a T28rs which is what I run).. Make it as efficient as you can, that's the key and it will make good power under less strain.

I also see that you want to go EFI? thing is, is if you do then I'd build a higher comp engine. Maybe pick another engine up (standard 1) and just throw it in and rebuild you MSM one (as long as it's salvageable) for the EFI conversation. You'll prob get an engine 4 about £100.

hi steve some info for you that may help you if you are looking for an engine still as a runner until you build up another the last time i was down at mikes aka phase 1 16v place he had at least 5 or 6 complete engines that are ready to run and several more that could easily be built up to make a good engine

i think this will probably be your best option to get you up and running again soon mate as there are a few to choose from

[5teve L]

if youre thinking of efi as well as needing a new block i would seriously consider B18ft'ing it

Was thinking 16v (F7P) myself....

[HAndy]

if youre thinking of efi as well as needing a new block i would seriously consider B18ft'ing it

deffo the cheaper route for bigger /more reliable /power, and cheaper than the f7p/r or f4 route that said ,16valves and cross flowed is the going to give you the bigger power output , but at price

[5teve L]

Thing is, the volvo lump hasn't been proven to be that fast without throwing a bit of cash at it either.. custom cam, etc etc all adds up.. I will be certainly looking into a few options, thought about VAG but after having the S3 I hated the gear change on that..
So we have.

Rebuilt C1J
Volvo
f7p/r or f4
VAG

Now since I also hate the carb & renix unit , & was thinking of going EFi on my C1J anyway, it makes sense to just go for an engine conversion TBH....

[SCHWARTZ]

I went for the volvo as it was the cheapest to buy and all ready turbo'd also nice and simple conversion cost me about £700 in all and also sold a few c1j parts starter flywheel etc and got some money back. Also there seems to be the most help on hand with the conversion which id all ways good

[5teve L]

I went for the volvo as it was the cheapest to buy and all ready turbo'd also nice and simple conversion cost me about £700 in all and also sold a few c1j parts starter flywheel etc and got some money back. Also there seems to be the most help on hand with the conversion which id all ways good

I think I need to pop out in your car & also look into options/build specs...

I also think Mark needs to pull his finger out so I can get out in a big power version..

[HAndy]

16valves for the win

[SCHWARTZ]

I should have mine running nicely by next meet so can take you out then youre welcome to have a go yourself if you've got insurance. mines only a small power build but would defo like to see marky marks build to see what they can do.

[J$£5GTT]

i take it your engine is a skimmed deck msm one too?

mine doesn't even have forged pistons and its been fine since i've had it (got it in 2005) running 27psi

only problems i've had are ones that i've caused...

why get forged pistons as standard ones are ok as long as you get fuelling right, they are just an added expense when it does go pop

.......


16v....depends what motor.......20v ftw...

[HAndy]

16v....depends what motor.......20v ftw...[/QUOTE]

mmm...not renault though is the o2j vag box all that much better than renault in o.e form,unless you through money and development at it, and cable gear selector is a deffo no,far to much aggro for me anyway, with the engine in the back

[HAndy]

just out of interest what are the benefits of the f4 over the f7 engine anyway, once you take away the variable valve timing bit, are the cams anymore suited to turbo appplication on lift /duration, are the inlets /exhaust valves any bigger, are the inlet manifolds better flowed, does it share the same bottom end grunt as the f7r and does it respond better top end (rev wise)tha the f7p i dont know ,but im sure somebody does

[TrixNFlix]

I also think Mark needs to pull his finger out so I can get out in a big power version..

As we keep telling him, his is the benchmark, people might sit up and notice this engine then.

[HAndy]

i was going to go with the b18f ages ago, had the engine lined up to go in
it was just that the compression was all in the the pistons and not knowing there limits ,even after searching the volvo 480 owners club forum it was a big grey area,that and cam options and of course 16 valves compared to 8 , but all respect to mark for giving it ago

[shaggy]

good job i have good eye sight to spot those crack

phil you've alway's had a good eye for cracks that you could put your cock in lol

[SCHWARTZ]

phil you've alway's had a good eye for cracks that you could put your cock in lol

some not visible to the human eye

[SCHWARTZ]

theyre getting over 300bhp on the 480 sites with these lumps

[Markey Mark (BD)]

As we keep telling him, his is the benchmark, people might sit up and notice this engine then.

Don't worry boys, it may all seem its gone quiet on the Volvo front but things are happening behind the scene's

[TrixNFlix]

Don't worry boys, it may all seem its gone quiet on the Volvo front but things are happening behind the scene's

Gets some pics up mark, i need some more motivation.

[Markey Mark (BD)]

Gets some pics up mark, i need some more motivation.

I will be soon mate, at the moment its looks alittle less complete then last time as it has nothing in the engine bay at the moment

[SCHWARTZ]

is this going to be a purley drag car or will it be coming to the surrey meets etc...?

[5teve L]

Looking like F7P

[HAndy]

Looking like F7P

go for the f7r out of the 2.0 16v megane coupe , the head has 2mm bigger inlet valves than the f7p as standard, and fit the f7p crank /volvo 480t crank, also has no distributor , easier for stand alone ecu

[HAndy]

same engine near enough as the clio williams , but without the big "williams" price tag on the end