wont start after a week of hell, HELP

[philg]

I'm looking for a bit of help with my b18ft conversion.

Engine is in, everything is connected.

1st day it would turn and not start but with a weak spark.
2nd day it was trying to start with a bit of a splutter, it did then run badly for all of 5 secs.

I have been plaguing Dave and Trix for answers, sorry guys

What is concerning me is that I'm smelling petrol but the pump is priming when turning the key back from crank to 0, is thats not normal, something wired up wrong i think.

I have got things wired up slightly different, maybe someone can help with this.

blue/brown wire / revs is not yet connected
grey wire - black connector block pass wing
grey/red - drivers foot well
blue/white is also to black connector bloc pass wing

I know that the preferred method is

blue/brown - revs
grey - ing barrel switched live
grey/red - fuel pump some where, foot well is good.
blue/white - ing barrel cranking poss

How is it i tell which wires to put to my key/ignition barrel, i read someone else had problems and they were on the wrong yellow or something.

I don't think have a working multi meter to test and have never used one before.
Could someone tell me out of the 4 ignition barrel wires which ones to use?

i need my grey wire to ing click 2 live and blue white wire to crank correct?


Sorry guys i have never done this before

[philg]

picture

[SCHWARTZ]

there are two yellow wires one looses power when cranking(not what you want) the other dosnt. you really need a multi meter matey as they look pretty much the same. that dosnt sound like the problem tho if it started

[SCHWARTZ]

have you bypassed the r5 fuel pump relay? andy reckons if its not bypassed it inter fears with the fueling.

[philg]

i honnestly think is fueling probs i have got, the pump is priming when turning the key to off?

Something has to be wired up wrong

[SCHWARTZ]

defo double check that the r5 fuel pump relay is bypassed as what is happening sounds like what andy was telling me would happen if its not bypassed.

[philg]

I read your pm, so how do i bypass, do i go straight onto the white wire in the fuse box?

Where is the fuel pump relay?


Im currently connected onto the large white wire in the drivers footwell.

phil

[philg]

forgot to mention im using the campus engine loom.

[SCHWARTZ]

if your lying down in the passenger foot well looking up, the fuel pump relay will be right up at the top on the left above the line of 4 relays that you can see from the front. It is long and black and has a grey oval connector. there is a thick white wire take that out of the relay and wire it to that

[scott25]

i had a problem with my r5, it fired up for about a second then wouldnt run again, just turn over again and again and again.

it turned out to be the ecu has stop controling the fuel pump relay, so we have just bypassed that and it runs fine now!

[SCHWARTZ]

havnt seen a campus engine loom so dont know how it varies to the gtt one andy is the man for that as he is using a campus. as you will be keeping the looma seperate it shouldnt make too much difference.

[philg]

if your lying down in the passenger foot well looking up, the fuel pump relay will be right up at the top on the left above the line of 4 relays that you can see from the front. It is long and black and has a grey oval connector. there is a thick white wire take that out of the relay and wire it to that

will do this tomorrow, fingers crossed

[SCHWARTZ]

good man

[Haz]

or just remove the relay, or if they have just 't'd into the fuel pump wire, chop off the bit that goes to the dash, leavin the volvo wire connected to the pump i preume its a later injection model? cant remember on the wiring tho. the passeger block connector isnt renound for being very good so may be worth bypassing it. by the sounds of it, its connected to the wrong ign live, turning off during cranking then back on when you stop. take its power from the aei/ecu live.
with no multimeter it'll be hard to do any testing since most of the volvo setup is electronics, worth gettin one otherwise ya cant actually see if the ecu is receivin or givin power, as with most of the sensors, especially when it comes to fine tuning the afm for more than std boost.
also i presume you've changed the campus in tank sensor to a gtt one as the return is smaller so may not flow properly. along with the pump not providing enough.

[philg]

thanks fr the help guys


Right had a quick look, fuel pump will live if i bypass the relay red to white, i am also getting petrol to the engine.

I tried putting the fuel pump wire to the white wire at the back of the relay, no good, even with the relay disconnected no luck.

It still primes the pump turning back from crank to 0, with out a meter I'm stumped, i have tried manually putting the connector into both of the yellow terminals on the ignition key, one primes the pump the other does not, but still in reverse IE crank back to 0.

Going to leave it for now till Dave's back on it

[philg]

we seem to also have a bad connection on the alt live red wire may this be causing some problems?

I have had the wires off it rubbed them, but sometimes not getting a strong battery light on ignition to.

[Haz]

could be that the battery doesn't have enough charge but without a multi meter you cant test it.
the red live that goes to the alt it the main live for the volvo loom. also check earths

[philg]

My guy mentioned i have a bad connection on the terminal post which the red wire goes onto the alternator.

I have had all the earths off and checked them, bar the one right on the bottom of the block at the front.

Battery may be shagged the amount of times we have charged it, ran boosters on it and tried cranking it over. It is a new battery taken of the campus i used for bits.

thanks haz, im sure i will get it running

[TrixNFlix]

Yo phil. As per phone conversation you could do with taking your feeds from just below the ignition barrel as the connector of death is notoriously sketchy. As haz has said you need a multimeter to have any chance of sorting this out.Even though your colourblind, you can still find out which ignition feed is which by moving you key into each position on the barrel and seeing which wire is giving you 12v.Then just follow the wiring guide and connect the Volvo parts of the loom to the corresponding Renault parts.

[philg]

Right got a meter.

12.75v on the battery, i got 12v from the alt live to.

Managed to determine which was ing 2 on the barrel, it was the one i thought, it was making the relay click and that was the one that was priming the pump in reverse, it to was getting 12v.

I then checked the crank wire on the orange wire that was giving me 10v .

I also had the white disconnected on the fuel pump relay and ran my pump wire from this.

And guess what, still no good

Even when i live the pump it still does not fire.

phil

[SCHWARTZ]

what about plugs leads all small things like that have they been changed and checked?

[philg]

what about plugs leads all small things like that have they been changed and checked?

New plugs in, super 4s.

I will check the leads however, i guess pulling the plugs out and looking for a strong spark on all 4?

[SCHWARTZ]

i got those super 4's hope they are not the problem what is the coil like spark wise?

[philg]

When Dave my mate has been looking over my car, he put on some funny looking thing on we could observe the spark in and its was intermiting, it is strong one minute then not so the next.

He has had a scope on it, no idea what that does but went through every pin on the ecus testing, in the end he thought it must be the tdc sensor, we replaced that, and that is when it did start for about 5-10 secs. But it has done nothing since.

I hoping to get him back over this week to have another look, because being honest its way over my head.

[SCHWARTZ]

are the colours for the engine loom the same on the earlier and later volvo engines?

[philg]

not sure mine is a 92, but i like your thinking.

pictures on the way

[philg]

here we go, no good with colours, colour blind

[philg]

not very clear mind, we had all the right colurs we needed, but if i rember right one was a different colour from one side of the block to another, im sures its the revs though.

[philg]

right just had a look and we have 2 red and grey, i have decided to keep the lamba, which is the same coulour as the pump, is the pump wire the thick one or the small?

phil

[philg]

no joy the pump is the larger.

Its still primes backward on crank to 0


phil

[SCHWARTZ]

i havnt used the red connector as i only had the bit on the loom not the other half so i have cut the wires from it. have you double checked the wires going to the connector and coming from it match up (if you get what i mean)? also check that for bad connections. how have you wired up the alternator, starter and fuel pump as on the r5 the loom connects them together as they give each other power etc...(put very simply)

[philg]

i havnt used the red connector as i only had the bit on the loom not the other half so i have cut the wires from it. have you double checked the wires going to the connector and coming from it match up (if you get what i mean)? also check that for bad connections. how have you wired up the alternator, starter and fuel pump as on the r5 the loom connects them together as they give each other power etc...(put very simply)

I used the campus engine loom for the alt etc. I know the starter was on this and so was the alt, not sure on the pump though, is there a connection on there for that?


phil

[philg]

where andy when you need him, probably sucking dave off telling him what a good job he did on the sleeper lol

[SCHWARTZ]

where andy when you need him, probably sucking dave off telling him what a good job he did on the sleeper lol

[SCHWARTZ]

where andy when you need him, probably sucking dave off telling him what a good job he did on the sleeper lol

[SCHWARTZ]

im all outa ideas matey. Was andy haz and dave who i was asking for help. You got andys number?

[philg]

mate its etched in me brain, i have rang him that much

[TrixNFlix]

Phil, I suggest you do a continuity test on your Volvo loom, sounds like you might have a break in a wire. Failing that and your positive that it's wired up right, another option is to try a different ecu and ignition module. I'm not gona give you a gobble and tell you how slow you've been with this conversion!
I'll have some time to have a talk Tuesday night pal, just with the mrs before I ship her back.

[SCHWARTZ]

mate its etched in me brain, i have rang him that much

yer me n all

[philg]

My man has been back over today and had another look.

He checked all the lives and crank wires again, happy with them, he is aware of the fuel pump priming back from crank but is not to worried.

At the moment this is the problem.

His words

On the Volvo fuel pump relay, pin 85 has an intermiting fault and loses earth during cranking.

Its also has very little command to the ignition module 1.5v

Im hoping haz or chris has some ideas because at the moment mine is a jerry can and a match

[philg]

He also wants to know if he can get codes out of it without it having a diagnostic socket?

phil

[SCHWARTZ]

He also wants to know if he can get codes out of it without it having a diagnostic socket?

phil

try speaking to scoff as well matey

[philg]

i have done hope he can help


Just got of the phone to my man, he also said.

There are ruff wave forms between ecus, which dont pull to ground.

He is after copys of wave forms for crank sensor and the 3 wires between ign ecu and fuel ecu.

That might aswell be Spanish to me

[Scoff]

Have you checked that you have 12v ignition power to the ecu *WHILE CRANKING* ? You know that there is 2 ignition lives from the barrel, right ? One is live while cranking, the other is not and is designed to power the stereo and other crap that gets switched off during cranking to conserve power. That would explain the relay un-latching as you crank.

[TrixNFlix]

I don't know much about the Volvo standard loom so colours, etc mean nothing to me.

But, have you checked that you have 12v ignition power to the ecu *WHILE CRANKING* ? You know that there is 2 ignition lives from the barrel, right ? One is live while cranking, the other is not and designed to power the stereo and other crap that gets switched off during cranking to conserve power. That would explain the relay un-latching as you crank.

Been through this with me Chris, he says his mate has wired these up correctly. he did say that hes only getting 10v though on cranking wire with his multimeter. It shouldnt be that low should it? His battery is showing high 12vs.

[Scoff]

Whats a cranking wire ? The starter exciter ? 10v isn't so bad while cranking, maybe battery needs a bit more charge.

Is there deff 12v on the ECU power pins while cranking though ? And 0v on the earths at ALL times ? He needs to start with those 2 basic tests.

[TrixNFlix]

Whats a cranking wire ? The starter exciter ? 10v isn't so bad while cranking, maybe battery needs a bit more charge.

Is there deff 12v on the ECU power pins while cranking though ? And 0v on the earths at ALL times ? He needs to start with those 2 basic tests.

Well his mates done all the wiring for him and hes taken his ecu cranking position feed from the starter exciter wire, well im assuming hes taken it from here as hes t'd into just before the connector of death in the passenger side engine bay. Have to wait for Phil for the answer to the voltages.

[Scoff]

Now I'm confused. The ECU doesn't need to know when the starter is running so I don't know what's been wired into the exciter wire ?

It's the ignition live's that I'm concerned with. In particular pin 18 of the fuel ECU. This should have 12v on it whenever the ignition is switched on, including while cranking. This is the pin I want him to check. There should also be 0v (ground) on Pins 5, 11 and 25.

My guess is that 12v is disapearing off pin 18 during cranking.

[Scoff]

There should also be 12v on pins 5 and/or 6 (depending on revision) of the ignition module. He should check this while checking pin 18 of the fuel ECU.

[TrixNFlix]

Right your confusing me now, remember i have very limited knowldege



Pin #
Cable Colour
Description






9
Grey
To key, ACC Run position (think hes taken this to the 12v yellow wire on alt)




11
Grey/red
To fuel pump (To switch it on)




15
Blue/white
To key for cranking power (Think hes taken this to starter exciter wire)


Am i making sense?