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  1. #1
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    blown engine

    my engine decided to dump its oil on the M23 overheat and now there's no compression in number 2&3 cylinders. Basically I want a more reliable car so I either repair the car and sell it or stick a more modern engine in place! Can a C1J lump ever produce 200bhp reliably and how much needs to be spent on it to achieve that? I don't want to sell the car but I cant afford to keep it if it keeps breaking down so a modern engine seems to be the best option only problem is im on a budget and don't want a massively complicated conversion so if anyone knows a reliable engine that can produce 200bhp(pref turbo) that can be swapped over relatively easily on a budget please let me know! I know its asking a lot but there must be someone out there who has converted an engine on the cheap!

  2. #2
    Committee, South East Regional Rep James5's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    my engine decided to dump its oil on the M23 overheat and now there's no compression in number 2&3 cylinders. Basically I want a more reliable car so I either repair the car and sell it or stick a more modern engine in place! Can a C1J lump ever produce 200bhp reliably and how much needs to be spent on it to achieve that? I don't want to sell the car but I cant afford to keep it if it keeps breaking down so a modern engine seems to be the best option only problem is im on a budget and don't want a massively complicated conversion so if anyone knows a reliable engine that can produce 200bhp(pref turbo) that can be swapped over relatively easily on a budget please let me know! I know its asking a lot but there must be someone out there who has converted an engine on the cheap!
    As said on the other forum if you want cheap efi and turbo stick the Volvo 1.7 lump in if you have a bit more soare cash do what ashy as done to the f4r or Bigfoot with the f7r engine but these are not cheap.

  3. #3
    Non-member 5teve L's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Why & how did it 'dump all the oil' ?

    Nothing wrong with the C1J once tweaked a little, for the money you seem to want to spend you will get fook all decent Efi wise.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    No reason why a c1j can't be reliable at 200hp. If it isn't, blame the engine builder/workmanship.

    Saying that, what's so special about 200hp?

  5. #5
    Non-member rs250nut's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Come on Mart everyone wants the magical 200hp these days, 196hp just wont do.

  6. #6
    Non-member 5teve L's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    No reason why a c1j can't be reliable at 200hp. If it isn't, blame the engine builder/workmanship.

    Saying that, what's so special about 200hp?

    C'mon Mart, give him some credit, he didn't say 250 or 300bhp

    I agree though 200 can be reliable if you know what you're doing... 180 prob about the best for reliability though.. ??

  7. #7
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    dont really know at the moment why it dumped the oil im suspecting the filter i have run it since it runs terrible but cant see any oil coming out but have only run it at idle and it dumped the oil at 5000rpm so prob needs the pressure to force it through the seal! I was only running 1bar of boost so it prob was only making 150bhp but i was looking at upping the boost to 1.5bar to get somewhere near 200bhp! i didnt build the engine and dont know who did i bought it with a piper cam and i fitted a t2t25 turbo. Maby it will be best to do a whole rebuild and learn my way round a c1j?

  8. #8
    Non-member old skool turbo power's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    No reason why a c1j can't be reliable at 200hp. If it isn't, blame the engine builder/workmanship.

    Saying that, what's so special about 200hp?
    i think imo your std engine looked after well and treated right even at your standard power is pretty good and the performance is id say still good haha sayin that it might just be me.all this lark of oh they over heat ect blar blar blar

  9. #9
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    Re: blown engine

    The 1.7 turbo engine out of a 480 is a cracker. Cheap as fook, developed and over-engineered by porsche. I had one of these, with a few choice mods they are capable of running close to 250 bhp for under a grand. There is a guy on the 480 owners website who can re-map the standard ecu as they are heavily de-tuned. 220 odd is very achievable. I suggest you have a look on the 480 owners site for some info.
    1 thing that seemed to make a huge difference on mine was blocking radiant heat being absorbed into the inlet manifold. Some genius decided it was a good idea to put it over the top of the engine and next the exhaust manifold

  10. #10
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    Re: blown engine

    i find the engines are fine, its the badly bolted on bits and old electrics that get you.. get a second hand engine, give it all a once over and drop it in..

  11. #11
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by r5t2 View Post
    The 1.7 turbo engine out of a 480 is a cracker. Cheap as fook, developed and over-engineered by porsche. I had one of these, with a few choice mods they are capable of running close to 250 bhp for under a grand. There is a guy on the 480 owners website who can re-map the standard ecu as they are heavily de-tuned. 220 odd is very achievable. I suggest you have a look on the 480 owners site for some info.
    1 thing that seemed to make a huge difference on mine was blocking radiant heat being absorbed into the inlet manifold. Some genius decided it was a good idea to put it over the top of the engine and next the exhaust manifold
    What did Porsche have to do with the B18ft ?

    And you mean Rich Pruen, I think. You're right, the ignition is not aggressive once the boost is raised with a standard ECU. A cheaper alternative to Rich's mod:

    http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=167

  12. #12
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    Re: blown engine

    In the 480 turbo. Volvo bought the renault engine and gave it to Porsche to develop it, then when they got them back they de-tuned the maps on them. Strange but true. The internals on these are heron pistons and rings and other high strength parts. Afraid I can't remember who it was who did the mapping on the site, but I am surprised that more people don't use these engines. They are very helpful guys on that forum.

    Just a thought?? Would the 2 litre turbo engine from a 21 drop in place?

  13. #13
    Non-member dave r5's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    some of the ppl on the volvo club are helpfull

    some dont like u if u have a 480 engine in a 5

    duno why tho the less 480's out there the better there ugly lol

  14. #14
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    whats this volvo forum then? il see if theres an engine on there

  15. #15
    Committee, South East Regional Rep James5's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ View Post
    whats this volvo forum then? il see if theres an engine on there

    Don't foget you will need the engine looms and the ECU's think there is 2 ECU's I may be wrong on that

  16. #16
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    Re: blown engine

    I will strongly defend the 480. Awesome car. Porcshe tuned engine, lotus tuned handling, lightweight body panels, enough buttons and gadgets to amuse a techy and I like the shape. If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world. All I have to say is try one before you persecute it.
    I might get another one come to think about it

    The site is the 480ownersclub,(VOLVOCLUB.ORG.) google it. More likely to find one being broken though. Seen a few in my local breakers yard in the last few months.
    Pease pottage breakers in crawley west sussex or the bay cos they rust badly round the rear arches and they are not cheap to fix.

    SOMETHING TO BEAR IN MIND - You want the 1.7 turbo enginefrom a 480 and not the 1.8 turbo out of a 44/460 not as good!!!

    Guy on ebay breaking a 480 turbo - 07745033589. Don't know if he has an engine though.
    Last edited by r5t2; 10-11-2009 at 18:26.

  17. #17
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    dont the 440 have a 1.7 as well tho?

  18. #18
    Non-member SCHWARTZ's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    could someone give me a rough idea on the process of the engine conversion? I understand that there will be problems with the ecu's but the mechanical side of things! like what happens with the mounting of the engine does it use the same mounting points or do the volvo mounts need brackets made up? what happens with the driveshafts do the two ends fit together or do new ones need to be made? I just want to know what hind of work im looking at with this conversion so any help is verry appreciated!

  19. #19
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by r5t2 View Post
    I will strongly defend the 480. Awesome car. Porcshe tuned engine, lotus tuned handling, lightweight body panels, enough buttons and gadgets to amuse a techy and I like the shape. If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world. All I have to say is try one before you persecute it.
    I might get another one come to think about it

    The site is the 480ownersclub,(VOLVOCLUB.ORG.) google it. More likely to find one being broken though. Seen a few in my local breakers yard in the last few months.
    Pease pottage breakers in crawley west sussex or the bay cos they rust badly round the rear arches and they are not cheap to fix.

    SOMETHING TO BEAR IN MIND - You want the 1.7 turbo enginefrom a 480 and not the 1.8 turbo out of a 44/460 not as good!!!

    Guy on ebay breaking a 480 turbo - 07745033589. Don't know if he has an engine though.
    I agree that it's a strong engine, I know because I've been tuning them for years. I've experimented with the OE fuel and igntion modules no end, fitted and mapped standalone for them and anything else you can imagine, but don't get too hung up on the Porsche thing. The performance of the engine is shocking really. The camshaft is horribly restrictive, the cylinder head not much better, and the ignition map is not a lot to shout about.

    The engine starts to come alive when you fit the ES N/A camshaft, but still, more than 230hp is very hard to do. Not great news when you think that the lowly C1J can match it quite easilly with an off the shelf camshaft. The real bonus of the Volvo engine is, as you say, its build quality. It is leagues ahead of the C1J, as are most Renault F engines.

  20. #20
    South East Regional Rep soapymech's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    can much be done to the head scoff

  21. #21
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by soapymech View Post
    can much be done to the head scoff
    I think there's a lot of room for improvement, but we never needed much more than 230hp so didn't bother looking into it. The camshaft is the real restriction. We had planned to have catcams make a small batch performance cams, but no body was really interested. The Volvo owners were not interested unless it came from Rich Pruen, they didn't realise that there might be other people that know how to tune an engine.

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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    I agree that it's a strong engine, I know because I've been tuning them for years. I've experimented with the OE fuel and igntion modules no end, fitted and mapped standalone for them and anything else you can imagine, but don't get too hung up on the Porsche thing. The performance of the engine is shocking really. The camshaft is horribly restrictive, the cylinder head not much better, and the ignition map is not a lot to shout about.

    The engine starts to come alive when you fit the ES N/A camshaft, but still, more than 230hp is very hard to do. Not great news when you think that the lowly C1J can match it quite easilly with an off the shelf camshaft. The real bonus of the Volvo engine is, as you say, its build quality. It is leagues ahead of the C1J, as are most Renault F engines.
    True the maps are sh*t, but thats what I was talking about, so much potential for dirt cheap, If volvo hadn't de-tuned the engines maybe they would have sold in larger numbers.
    ITS GOT TO BE DONE, good luck with the research, I suspect that if it hasn't yet been done this will be a thread that gathers interest. The one thing I would say about them is I would be happy to thrash one of these engines all day long without fear of it popping, but the 1.4 in my T2 worth 80 -100 times more - I wouldn't

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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    I think there's a lot of room for improvement, but we never needed much more than 230hp so didn't bother looking into it. The camshaft is the real restriction. We had planned to have catcams make a small batch performance cams, but no body was really interested. The Volvo owners were not interested unless it came from Rich Pruen, they didn't realise that there might be other people that know how to tune an engine.
    Its a common thing with most owners clubs, there are always gurus that are the "last word" in tuning. I love tuning to beyond what people think is possible, sets new boundaries. Just gets more expensive for every 1bhp further.

  24. #24
    South East Regional Rep soapymech's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    I think there's a lot of room for improvement, but we never needed much more than 230hp so didn't bother looking into it. The camshaft is the real restriction. We had planned to have catcams make a small batch performance cams, but no body was really interested. The Volvo owners were not interested unless it came from Rich Pruen, they didn't realise that there might be other people that know how to tune an engine.
    would like to know how much bhp this lump would run reliably hmmm back to school

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    Re: blown engine

    I don't know what scoff experienced on these, but most people I knew were exceeding 200+ for under a grand, you have to be prepared to do some work for this though, larger intercooler from a scrapyard (200sx or larger saab2.3t one fits) exhaust releases around 15-20 if going for a straight through. I used a 1 box straight through system that went from 2" to 2 1/4" middle section back down to 2" rear box worked well. The original system double backs on itself. Up the boost and change the map using 99 octane and you're laughing.
    Sensible mods should see you achieve 200+ all day every day.

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    Re: blown engine



    Our aproach was pretty simple really, something like:

    60trim T28 with 0.64ar turbine
    Downpipe to match
    Front mounted intercooler
    Standard fuel ECU
    De-restricted EZK (ignition) module
    Volvo B23ft green injectors
    MAF bypass pipe to compensate for injector upgrade
    ES camshaft from 2.0 n/a

    Standard internals, gaskets, etc etc

    At 21psi that would make about 220hp usually. A bit more boost would see 230hp, but the engine didn't respond to much more than 23psi, other than making more peak torque.

  27. #27
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    Re: blown engine

    The really annoying thing I remember was the rev limit at 6100rpm! Did any of the Volvo guys find a way of removing that ? Blocky from this forum tried some Saab Bosch LH ROM software and read in the fuel ECU rom. Adjustment of the map was possible but there was no rev limit set at the address used by the Saabs (with the same ECU). I think we concluded the limit must be in the EZK but didn't investigate much further, we installed standalone instead on Chris's car.

  28. #28
    South East Regional Rep soapymech's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by r5t2 View Post
    I don't know what scoff experienced on these, but most people I knew were exceeding 200+ for under a grand, you have to be prepared to do some work for this though, larger intercooler from a scrapyard (200sx or larger saab2.3t one fits) exhaust releases around 15-20 if going for a straight through. I used a 1 box straight through system that went from 2" to 2 1/4" middle section back down to 2" rear box worked well. The original system double backs on itself. Up the boost and change the map using 99 octane and you're laughing.
    Sensible mods should see you achieve 200+ all day every day.
    what about maxing one to the point of all restriction being eliminated has anyone you know of gone this far maybe even using only the bottom end

  29. #29
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post


    Our aproach was pretty simple really, something like:

    60trim T28 with 0.64ar turbine
    Downpipe to match
    Front mounted intercooler
    Standard fuel ECU
    De-restricted EZK (ignition) module
    Volvo B23ft green injectors
    MAF bypass pipe to compensate for injector upgrade
    ES camshaft from 2.0 n/a

    Standard internals, gaskets, etc etc

    At 21psi that would make about 220hp usually. A bit more boost would see 230hp, but the engine didn't respond to much more than 23psi, other than making more peak torque.
    I can see a sudden rise in price and interest in these on the horizon after this thread

  30. #30
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by soapymech View Post
    what about maxing one to the point of all restriction being eliminated has anyone you know of gone this far maybe even using only the bottom end
    Essentially the bottom end is just a common renault F block, the same as my 16v etc.

    People generally arn't going to invest 1000's of ££ on flow bench time improving the cylinder head, or spend £500 on a one off camshaft, springs, and so on. It's a 20yr old 8v engine! It's apeal is it's cheapness, its robustness and ease of fitment into an R5. 230hp is more than enough for a light fwd road car! It'll do it reliably too.

    To mention no names (most of you will know who I mean ) - I've seen the same 100k mile old Volvo bottom end bouncing off the limiter in 5th gear, flat out at 20++ psi of boost, for minutes on end, a number of times. There is a video somewhere on the web of the afore mentioned owner at Bruntingthorpe proving ground bouncing off the limiter in 5th gear whilst eating a packet of crips and smoking a fag

  31. #31
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    Re: blown engine

    Not sure anyone look too deep into the rev limit, standalone has to be the way forward. Would make alternative vehicle installation easier.

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    Re: blown engine

    8 valves are the way forward!!!!!
    16valves suck, the lack of torque from a 16valve doesn't offer the same feel.
    I had a 309 gti goodwood with a gti6 lump - revving to 8200 can be tiresome!

  33. #33
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    Re: blown engine

    I have just brought on of these Volvo 480 Turbos from an old chap up the road. I am the second owner and it has only done 37k with all receipts, MOTs. Tax disks and paper. He has used it for years to go to the shops and back. I asked him years ago if he wanted to sell it. I wanted to do the conversion back then. He said no, but would keep me in mind. Few weeks back got a knock on the door and I am now the proud owner of a White 37k Volvo 480.

  34. #34
    Non-member philg's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    good thread

  35. #35
    Non-member hydrotec78's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    check out marky marks (bd) profile pics to see what he is doing with this lump, be warned you will get the " I WANTS"

  36. #36
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoff View Post
    Essentially the bottom end is just a common renault F block, the same as my 16v etc.

    People generally arn't going to invest 1000's of ££ on flow bench time improving the cylinder head, or spend £500 on a one off camshaft, springs, and so on. It's a 20yr old 8v engine! It's apeal is it's cheapness, its robustness and ease of fitment into an R5. 230hp is more than enough for a light fwd road car! It'll do it reliably too.

    To mention no names (most of you will know who I mean ) - I've seen the same 100k mile old Volvo bottom end bouncing off the limiter in 5th gear, flat out at 20++ psi of boost, for minutes on end, a number of times. There is a video somewhere on the web of the afore mentioned owner at Bruntingthorpe proving ground bouncing off the limiter in 5th gear whilst eating a packet of crips and smoking a fag
    I wonder who that could be! lol If anyone can testament the reliability of the engine in question that man can! Maybe the fact that the engine is well within it's tuning possabilitys is a contributing factor to it's sturdyness.

    From my experiance of driving one the engine is a much "nicer" drive than a c1j too, the efi makes the whole thing just seem smoother both on and off boost.
    Last edited by GTphil; 11-11-2009 at 13:43.

  37. #37
    Non-member dave r5's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    i love ythe 480 engine altho mine still doesnt work.

    i was going to experiment with a lower compresion head from an n/a modle but after speaking to chris (haz)
    i decided not to as the compression ratio is low any way

    also the power upgrade u get from 1 of scoff ecu's is fantastic for its money


    fittment is easy in a r5 gtx engine mout orriginal shafts and its in

  38. #38
    South East Regional Rep soapymech's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by hydrotec78 View Post
    check out marky marks (bd) profile pics to see what he is doing with this lump, be warned you will get the " I WANTS"
    realy cant wait to see this one go think it just needs the managment now

  39. #39
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by r5t2 View Post
    8 valves are the way forward!!!!!
    16valves suck, the lack of torque from a 16valve doesn't offer the same feel.
    I had a 309 gti goodwood with a gti6 lump - revving to 8200 can be tiresome!

  40. #40
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    Re: blown engine

    they wernt crisps they were mini chedders ill try and dig out the old video sumtime, was an experience to say the least lol

  41. #41
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    Re: blown engine

    ha ha, top engines, easy to work on and easy to tune for little cash. forgot bout that vid adey, and that was on a slightly smaller turbo with only 15psi
    not got loads of pics or vids, but i do know of one (poss ma pb time @ pod) on youtube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXt8V_uLTjk

  42. #42
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by r5t2 View Post
    8 valves are the way forward!!!!!
    16valves suck, the lack of torque from a 16valve doesn't offer the same feel.
    I had a 309 gti goodwood with a gti6 lump - revving to 8200 can be tiresome!
    ? confused on this statement, since when does the gti6 lack torque?

  43. #43
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by soapymech View Post
    realy cant wait to see this one go think it just needs the managment now
    Yep, just ECU and wiring really left to do on the engine side mate.

  44. #44
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    Haz's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    chop chop, hope you'll be smashin ma 1/4mile times with that set-up, but at least wait til i've sold ma car so i'm not tempted to put a cam in and fettle it some more lol.

  45. #45
    Non-member Markey Mark (BD)'s Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Haz View Post
    chop chop, hope you'll be smashin ma 1/4mile times with that set-up, but at least wait til i've sold ma car so i'm not tempted to put a cam in and fettle it some more lol.
    Lol! I'll try hold out till you sold it mate, although once its done it'll be done Pod straight away.

    Yeah i do hope it'll be posting some good times, got to at least smash my old time with the C1J

  46. #46
    Non-member r5 rich's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    i got a perfect bb tuning engine in my garage if needed

  47. #47
    Non-member 5teve L's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Haz View Post
    ha ha, top engines, easy to work on and easy to tune for little cash. forgot bout that vid adey, and that was on a slightly smaller turbo with only 15psi
    not got loads of pics or vids, but i do know of one (poss ma pb time @ pod) on youtube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXt8V_uLTjk
    I need to pull my finger out & get back to pod...

  48. #48
    Non-member steveR5GTT's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by 5teve L View Post
    I need to pull my finger out & get back to pod...
    you and me both mate, im hopin to be there end of jan or end of feb depending of weather of course lol

  49. #49
    Non-member dave r5's Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD) View Post
    Yep, just ECU and wiring really left to do on the engine side mate.
    what mods have u done mate besides inlet an exhaust manifolds.

    any thing internal

  50. #50
    Non-member Markey Mark (BD)'s Avatar
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    Re: blown engine

    Quote Originally Posted by dave r5 View Post
    what mods have u done mate besides inlet an exhaust manifolds.

    any thing internal
    Bottom end is fairly standard apart from a balanced crank and lightened and slotted flywheel.
    The head has recieved most of the work, full port, larger valves (inlet and exhaust), stronger valve springs and a custom cam. There's alot more bits done to the lump but thats the main bits.

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