Negative camber issue.!

[raj]

after moving the car back and forth in and out the garage ive noticed that the n/s front wheel has more negative chamber than the o/s.!! you can barely tell with the o/s but the n/s is clearly visable!

as part of the engine rebuild i replaced the n/s driveshaft,
i basically removed the old shaft,replaced with the new, fixed it back to the hub,tightened,put road wheel back on and tightened some more due to the shaft turning with out the cars weight on the road wheel. i cant remember if i hooked the ball joint,track rod up before tightening the shaft up or before does any of that count for anything? could i have made an error somewhere.?

what could over torquing the shaft do.? would this pull the wheel into negative camber and pull the shaft from the gearbox.?

[Arrows]

Have you checked the bolt holes where you attach the lower part of the suspension into the top of the hub, the holes are not out of shape ect are they as this will cause this?

[raj]

Have you checked the bolt holes where you attach the lower part of the suspension into the top of the hub, the holes are not out of shape ect are they as this will cause this?

yes i made sure to check before fitting

[raj]

after moving the car back and forth in and out the garage ive noticed that the n/s front wheel has more negative chamber than the o/s.!! you can barely tell with the o/s but the n/s is clearly visable!

as part of the engine rebuild i replaced the n/s driveshaft,
i basically removed the old shaft,replaced with the new, fixed it back to the hub,tightened,put road wheel back on and tightened some more due to the shaft turning with out the cars weight on the road wheel. i cant remember if i hooked the ball joint,track rod up before tightening the shaft up or before does any of that count for anything? could i have made an error somewhere.?

what could over torquing the shaft do.? would this pull the wheel into negative camber and pull the shaft from the gearbox.?

any other ideas..?

[Spooky]

Pictures please...

Have you got the struts on the correct way...

[raj]

Pictures please...

Have you got the struts on the correct way...

LOL now your obviously taking the weewee is it even possible to fit the strut the wrong way lol.


so what are peoples methods when changing the n/s driveshaft.?

i'll have to take a closer look at it tonight after work.

[Andrew Cooke]

it won't be anything to do with the driveshaft.

[Robbo]

have you fitted new wishbones?

[Mart]

One of the top mounts is probably incorrect.

[raj]

have you fitted new wishbones?

yes, with poly bushes

[raj]

One of the top mounts is probably incorrect.

how can i tell the difference.? i know that one is zinced and one is black, but i purchased mine from cgb (recon)and they are both sprayed silver.!

would anyone happen to know if cgb sprays all his top mounts the same colour,just trying to figure out if he may have sent 2 of the same side.?

[Andrew Cooke]

yes, with poly bushes

is one off a clio?

[Andrew Cooke]

how can i tell the difference.? i know that one is zinced and one is black, but i purchased mine from cgb (recon)and they are both sprayed silver.!

would anyone happen to know if cgb sprays all his top mounts the same colour,just trying to figure out if he may have sent 2 of the same side.?

mixing PH1 and PH2 stuff will give funny cambers, getting PH2 stuff on the wrong side will not change camber, just caster, and you won't see that by eye.

The damper pin should be more towards the screen than the front grill.

[raj]

ive found i picture of the top mounts i purchased, they dont look wrong to me!



just had a thought... maybe i fitted the top mounts to the wrong sides but how can i tell if there both the same colour? thanks cgb

[Big Steve - Raider]

Are they the Group A or Group N Cableties on your Shocks??

[raj]

Are they the Group A or Group N Cableties on your Shocks??

im unsure but they look the bollox... and back to the subject.

[Andrew Cooke]

im unsure but they look the bollox... and back to the subject.

the answers are in the replies

[raj]

anyone got a picture of unpainted ph2 top mounts?

[Mart]

you won't see that by eye.

Disagree matey.

If the mounts are ass about face, or you've fitted the same type to both sides, you will be able to see the difference.

[Andrew Cooke]

Disagree matey.

If the mounts are ass about face, or you've fitted the same type to both sides, you will be able to see the difference.

by looking at the wheels as reported by raj, or looking the mounts as I suggest doing above? either way they won't change camber.

[Mart]

Assuming the wishbones are ok, swap the top mounts & I'd lay a good bet that that'll sort the problem.

[raj]

here are the wishbones -



O/S top mount in situ -



N/S top mount in situ -




O/S wheel -



N/S wheel (looks alot more neg)-

[raj]

OH SH1TTT

Just been out to have a closer look with my bro, 4eyes are better than 2!

reversed the car out the garage a few feet and drove it forward again.

as i was driving it forward, to my horror the engine decided it didnt like being in the engine bay and started shaking VERY violently absolutely shat me pants

seem as though the gearbox engine mount has gave way/collapsed it looks as though the mount to gearbox bolts have just pulled themselves out!! wtf i can only assume i must have threaded them when bolting in all back together SHAT!

at least ive found the problem now eh!

question is.. can it be helicoiled.! i hope so.

[Spooky]

**** me, you must've wrenched them on good and tight

Also, I think you mean, can you rethread the mounts with a die ? The answer being quite possibly.

[Chris Hebden]

MATE! If it doesnt rain it poors with you! What caused it to shake, the loose engine mount?

[raj]

**** me, you must've wrenched them on good and tight

Also, I think you mean, can you rethread the mounts with a die ? The answer being quite possibly.

die who what? i thought helicoiling was a good option? doesnt this make the area stronger than it previously was.?

[raj]

MATE! If it doesnt rain it poors with you! What caused it to shake, the loose engine mount?

i know mate just when im soo flappin close to getting it on the road

yes im assuming the mount was just holding on to a few threads as it all looked spot on in the bay, but after starting the engine over time it must have made the bolts shear out.! luckily this didnt happen while i was driving

[raj]

errrr ok so after finding the gearbox mount really close to the side of the engine bay body aswell as the bell housing almost touching the car body it looked like the g.box mount.

well further investigation(just got back in from under the car) has revealed that all engine mounts are solid but the engine looks to be higher on the n/s hence the mount and bell housing being only mm's away from the body.

something didnt tally up to me
well found what i can only think made the engine move so violently! the O/S driveshaft knuckles where basically not in situ!! the knuckles had stretched and twisted the gaitor and where half in half out of the metal holder, although the gaitor is still in one piece.

abit strange as ive not touched the o/s shaft! im assuming with the car raised off the ground the shaft should still stay in situ within the metal holder on the o/s of the gearbox.?

so it must be this o/s driveshaft not being in situ thats pushed the engine up on the n/s.

new o/s shaft please

[Robbo]

sounds like what happened to me and stu. Got some new wishbones from gsf and they supplied 1 gt turbo and 1 clio. Fitted them to the track5lag and thought nothing of it as it all went back together never really looked that close as the car was off the road at that time and was only pushed back and forth. It wasnt until stu fitted some more identical wishbones from gsf to his car and tried to drive it. The engine tried to escape from the engine bay and he thought he had smashed the gearbox or driveshaft. Its quite difficult to see the difference between the two wishbones as the clio ones are only very slightly longer

[Robbo]

this also gave toe out on one side of the car looking from the front

[raj]

sounds like what happened to me and stu. Got some new wishbones from gsf and they supplied 1 gt turbo and 1 clio. Fitted them to the track5lag and thought nothing of it as it all went back together never really looked that close as the car was off the road at that time and was only pushed back and forth. It wasnt until stu fitted some more identical wishbones from gsf to his car and tried to drive it. The engine tried to escape from the engine bay and he thought he had smashed the gearbox or driveshaft. Its quite difficult to see the difference between the two wishbones as the clio ones are only very slightly longer

thats interesting, however i dont think i have that problem with my wishbones as you can see in the above pic that there the same size.


i think this may have happen when i jacked the gearbox up abit to agle it so i could mate it up to the engine easier. the shaft knuckles must have poped out and not gone home when i lowered the box back down.

ah the joys

[Sparkie]

reach around the back of the tyre and feel if the inner edge of the tyre is the same distance away from the strut on both sides.
if they arent - then you either have bent hubs or bent dampers. i have seen both.

[THE MASTER]

there not clio wishbones they are 11/9 wishbones thats wots wrong .

[THE MASTER]

[quote=raj;85361]here are the wishbones -



have a mesure up on the hole in the centre a gt wishbone measures 32.5 mm from the pimple to the edge of the hole

as you can see the hole in these wishbones are more than 32 mm . that will put the bottom of the hub to far away and the drive shaft will not sit in its inner joint properly

easy when you know how

[raj]

reach around the back of the tyre and feel if the inner edge of the tyre is the same distance away from the strut on both sides.
if they arent - then you either have bent hubs or bent dampers. i have seen both.

bloody hell! bent hubs.! never heard of that one before. not heard of bent struts thinking about it.

[raj]

[quote=THE MASTER;85889]

here are the wishbones -



have a mesure up on the hole in the centre a gt wishbone measures 32.5 mm from the pimple to the edge of the hole

as you can see the hole in these wishbones are more than 32 mm . that will put the bottom of the hub to far away and the drive shaft will not sit in its inner joint properly

easy when you know how

lol, colin, how the flippin heck can you tell that the wishbones are 32.5mm can you really make out the 5mm in a picture.? you must have some sharp eyes eh master


anyway, i think ill undo the o/s hub so i can sent the o/s driveshaft home, as its basically lodged half hanging out of the metal holder part on the gearbox.
hopefull when i send it home it will all pull back together. if not ill have to look at the wishbones,hubs and struts.

[Hoolio]

Didn't really want to add my pennies worth being a newb, but the pic of the wheel you posted looked like bent hub up to the strut. But.............

[Spooky]

Best way to get to the bottom of this Raj is to strip it down and make sure everything is within spec.

Ball ache I know but hey, needs to be done.

[Chris Hebden]

Best way to get to the bottom of this Raj is to strip it down and make sure everything is within spec.

Ball ache I know but hey, needs to be done.

get your vernier out Raj, i agree with the Master that distance of the lower ball joint looks to be far to great. Just checked the pic against the ones on my car

[Matt Cole]

to me both wheels look to have excessive camber

[raj]

sod it, a strip down it is then

just one thing, can anyone tell me where i can get new hub bolts as im assuming you should re-use them.

[Chris Hebden]

sod it, a strip down it is then

just one thing, can anyone tell me where i can get new hub bolts as im assuming you should re-use them.

Hub bolts? The two that connect the hub to the damper? You can re-use them as long as you think that the lock nut is in good condition

[raj]

Hub bolts? The two that connect the hub to the damper? You can re-use them as long as you think that the lock nut is in good condition

no i mean the 2 big driveshaft locknuts. i assume your not suppuse to re-use these? if not, where can i buy these via the web? or alternatively if anyone knows there actual size i can pop down the local fasteners to see if they have any!

[Spooky]

hub nut is 30mm Raj.

[Chris Hebden]

I think you can, i do if i am taking the shaft out. Take the nut down to the bolt place they should be able to measure it!

[raj]

hub nut is 30mm Raj.

yes i know that whats the other size for them? you know when the sizes start with m? m3,m5 etc?

i only ask as the local fasterners ask about what the thread size/pitch is? etc

[raj]

I think you can, i do if i am taking the shaft out. Take the nut down to the bolt place they should be able to measure it!

ok feck it, i'll re-use it but if my wheels fly off i'll make sure they come rolling down your road

[Chris Hebden]

ok feck it, i'll re-use it but if my wheels fly off i'll make sure they come rolling down your road

Mate, if your wheels fly off then you havent put something else back together right ! Like i said i re-use mine and make sure there torqued up and never had a problem!

[Brigsy]

I have reused hub nuts plenty of times, tighten them to the correct torque & they dont come loose.

[*Yellow*]

I have reused hub nuts plenty of times, tighten them to the correct torque & they dont come loose.

......... both mine been off fair few times this year for one thing or another.