My Thoughts

[Moggy]

ok, these are my thoughts..... I'll say them now, if the 'mods' put them into this post we are waiting to start so be it, if not... who knows

I'm in a different position to most on here having been banned (one of the first ) because I asked too many questions.....

I feel at the time, they where questions that needed answering, they have finally been answered (when I was banned), and the club I feel opened up a little and finally showed where and when things where going /being done

The club has changed for the better having this chairperson and committee has meant more people doing more things and actually making the club a better place, we.ll it was

BUT have certain people been in their role too long and think they are irreplaceable....

I won't drag up the past but having been a 'name' of the past perhaps not the present, newer members won't know me, but lets say if you cut me down the middle I really do bleed diamonds!!!!! the renault type!

Miller, mate in the past you've done an amazing job, but, and I totally understand that your house/family have come first (its the reason i'm not here as much), but really you should of stood to one side when you didn't have the time to been a 'seen' person. The chairperson is someone who must be seen, and must post. even if its just a 'well done' to a new member on a resto thread. Without the front of the xmas donkey, the backside doesn't know where to follow!!!!!

Ian S, mate you've been here as long as me if not 1 or 2 months longer you've been dropped in the crap by the last few 'top people', and have left to pick up the pieces time after time, each time you've done a cracking job. I know you've not been 100%, but put yourself first! The club will continue without you, people will come forward to do your roles. its something i've learnt from the sailing stuff I'm involved in, while someone is in a post, no-one will stand up to replace them, when they walk away, hands go up!!! put #1 first mate!

The committee :- you have a privileged position, you have the final say! you as a team decide what we should spend our money on, where/who we should go to for internet space stuff, what the club should support etc etc do it wisely, do it fair, but most of all remember 1 thing, its about the marque, not the car and not the person! if we keep thinking gtturbo and joe bloggs, we will never grow. Think Renault, think Turbo!

To the '3 amigos' ; you might not think you've done something wrong, who does. but.... i'm sure you have alienated people, perhaps people who now have 'power' etc, lets face it, we're all moaning old gits. But, if you've made your mind up to do something... fair play, just go and do it. don't moan if something else is taking place or already exists, get on with it. Word of... well its not really advice... I was thinking about coming to Belgium, I asked where you guys where staying.... I'm still waiting for a reply. Me, I'm not bothered I'll stay at home and chase sheep, but to others, that is where they see the 'cliquey' nature. when you organize something do it openly, that goes for events or new forums, stop the secret squirrel stuff! it doesn't help!

Scoff; mate without you, this website might never have returned from the dead.... big thanks for keeping all us moaning gits together in one place! you're 1 in a million and taken for granted!

Right, what i think needs doing :-

stop all this bloody moaning,

If 'the few' think they can help/do a better job, give them a role, NOW! If they want to help/make changes.... lets hear them, lets keep the ball rolling, let not drop it now... we need to build, we need to grow... we've missed the 'game' by not pushing the 'general' renault turbo aspect for years, we've always waved and said hello to new members with obscure new cars when they join, but how many have we kept???, they join, realize we're a glorified gtturbo club and they leave. we're about to miss out on all the new 'renault turbo's if we're not careful.... lets pick this ball up and run with it....

website; right its old, outdated software. Right WTF does that mean!?!?!? can we fix it cheaply? can someone here do it on a sat night with a beer or does it mean we need to pay? do we need a new space place? server is it?? how much is that gonna cost, can we afford it? if so.... lets f'in do it.

The Club... what do we really offer people when they join? have we looked at the 'gifts' others give away? what about renewal time? wow, a card.... for £15. I'm honored! we know there is money there lets give a little back.

Voting... well from what I can see, we've not had an AGM for a year or 2??? (i'll stand corrected if needs be) but that's where voting should take place. People don't know what roles are available if you don't advertise them! a quick 'heads up', whats expected etc.

perhaps we should put a 'time scale' on roles, i.e. you can only be chairperson for 2 years, etc etc. That way you don't get stale in a role? well its an idea!

anyway

that's the way I see it...... in fact its the way I've always seen it! so.... lets hope it means something to someone

Moggy
Megane 225 owners (who thinks meganesport and rsmegane are boring and full of polish)
ex owner of... x2 gtturbo, x2 21 turbo, x2 fuego turbo, x2 gordini turbo, x2 avantime turbo, a clio v6 and x2 R5 turbo 2..... so yes! its in my bloody blood!!!!!

[5teve L]

Pretty much sums it up Moggy.

[ScottKinnear]

[Ian S]

Thanks for taking the time and thought to say all that

[chris]

Good posting and just realised your almost a local to me.

[gtmatt]

So true moggy and ,it's the same members who want change ,all the above you have said is right ,but any time me , andy dave ,jrp and many complain or moan , we get shot down , I hope , things do change , times have and changed and so does the club need to change it's been brushed under the carpet many years , i pushed for an agm last year and mart did never happened , I myself is goin to sangliers this year so will miss the agm as a lot of other members are to.

Lets hope we can get things moving forward I don't mind helping

[andybond]

I dont think there are any questions of the folks who have done stuff being patted on the back and saying thank you. Never ever. Some serious talent and ability kicking around.

I dont think that is the issue ..

[B18ftMOJO5]

Well said agree with all the above. My ten pence worth, it seems like we are all arguing because of the issue of some people going to sangliers and the rest going to national day. Why dont we allow every one to do as they please and arrange a GM over a curry in manchester or bham, after ND and sangliers. This way there no conflict of interest and we.can all sit down an sort our issues out.

From what ive read so far during the last year is your all a great bunch of lads. Just seems like a lack of communication which leaves room for misconceptions and issues. Maybe if we were all on a whats app group we could easily communicate meetings etc and keep a immediate contact between all members.

For me the help and knowledge has been great in keeping my 5 on the rd...i have made some worthwile friends and enjoyed my first year with you guys. look forward to many more years.

[TopCat]

Good posting and just realised your almost a local to me.

Fcking hell Chris, stop trying to sleep with members...

[Andrew Cooke]

Moggy, you're a moaning git, and I agree. That's my first, and hopefully final, post on all this BS.

[Lowiepete]

Hello Folks,

Introduction
I first joined RTOC nearly 5 years ago, though I didn't renew because it was clear that
the R5GTT focus still had no room for other breeds of Renault Turbo. Disappointed I was!
With a rare breed of very exciting car, this should have been my natural "home".

However, I'm in the fortunate position that I also own an R5GTT and being that I'm now
actively restoring it, I have rejoined. By small steps, the RTOC is beginning to recognise
that there is life outside the R5

My background? Well, during my leisure time I've been involved at some level with a few
organisations. I won't join anything unless I feel I can take an active part, even if it's just
supporting local meetings. Since my rejoining last year I've been dismayed at the sheer
bitterness that has been expressed here. It is unnecessary and totally avoidable!

A Route Toward Positive Future?
So, here are my ideas for what I believe should happen to the RTOC.

1) We should have a written constitution.
2) We should aim toward achieving charitable status
3) We should aim to broaden both horizons and achievements through the charitable status
4) Charitable status not only brings financial benefits, it helps to steady the ship
5) Charitable status means that we can covenant suscriptions - it means a 4 year
commitment by covenanted members whose subscriptions bring income tax supplements.

Let's Expand This
So, some meat on those bones...

1) By having a publicly viewable written constitution you bring order and recognition of
a properly administered organisation. The route towards this can be fraught, however,
the simplest and easiest way is to adopt that of another well-run organisation with
similar aims. All you do then is adjust various names.

2) By virtue of the fact that Renault Turbo cars, in the modern sense, have been iconic
field-leading historic motor cars and that this club supports those who preserve that
history is, I believe, sufficient to qualify for charitable status. Sourcing of parts and the
provision of factual and accurate technical data that is probably no longer available from
the manufacturer(s) strengthens the argument.

3) Charitable status gives credibility to other organisations where the RTOC could be in a
good position to support activities related to the history of the Renault Turbo motor cars,
right up to the present day. Who would be best placed to organise items for related
displays in local motor museums? There is plenty of scope beyond this, I'm only starting
to sow seeds.

4) The increased credibility, especially if it is matched by supporting publicity, can mean
we reach out to car enthusiasts of _all_ ages! If you don't catch 'em young, you'll just
die of old age and a mine of authoritative history is lost - for good!

5) Cementing a bond with members has to be one of the highest priorities, if only to
maintain a dependable income stream.

How Should We Achieve This?

Well, the constitution would specify core aims and objectives, along with the admin
structure to support it. To get to that point would need a steering committee charged
with formulating the written objectives. Something like this...

Chairman - To lead and oversee the project through exploring ideas that surface from
the Steering Committee (SC)

Deputy Chairman - almost as above, but more a bit of a rottweiler than a lap dog. The
best example is Michel Roux and the famous Monica! Basically someone who'll challenge
the Chairman in a positive way.

Secretary - the minute keeper and final drafter of necessary documentation.

Treasurer - not physically handling funds, but professionally qualified to advise upon
future financial matters.

4 Committee Members - Choice here should focus on individuals who look toward specific
objectives. For example, events, history, publicity / public relations and member benefits.

Up to 2 more co-opted Members (at the discretion of the SC) for example, if the SC feel
there could be an avenue in book publishing it may be necessary to co-opt an expert in
this field. Co-opted members would not have a vote if one is called by the meeting.

The SC should be given a deadline (sooner rather than later to focus minds) to produce
sufficient information for the members to give their approval. This to be decided by a
postal ballot of all paid-up members. Members of the existing Committee can belong to
the SC, except for the top 4 posts. The idea is to seek out new ideas!

It'll be incumbent upon those members of the SC to research as much information as
possible during their deliberations and full co-operation from any member is sought in
that direction. Members of the SC will have no power to influence the current policies
and or admin of the club.

Beyond this, and I've already alluded to this, all policies of the RTOC should be written
down in dynamic documents visible to all on the web site. That gives any member who
wants to do a bit more than pay their subscription all the information they need about
whom to contact and what is expected of them in any post they occupy.

Summing Up
The sheer recognition that the RTOC carries puts it in a very strong postion to guarantee
its future. Your reputation is valuable and anyone who compromises it should get a
raspberry!

All of the above is put up as an alternative to the negative carping with a view to making
RTOC a stronger force in its field. None of it is set in stone, the suggestions are based
upon previous experience that has led to positive outcomes. If anyone thinks, oh he's
new here and doesn't know the club - that's true, but I've also witnessed how badly
you are bleeding right now!

Over to you...

Regards,
Steve

[Matt Cole]

That's the most positive thing I have read Peter and would certainly be in support.

If the committee is to be reshaped this is how I would tackle it:

Put up a list of positions required to be filled.
Obtain a list of nominees and publish to the club.
Each nominee must receive at least two votes from the general members to be nominated for the position.

Hopefully enough people will apply for the positions, if not then the comitee remains as it is.

Very simple and then no one can complain any more.

[Ian S]

Publicly viewable written constitution:
https://www.rtoc.org/club/
https://www.rtoc.org/club/?show=committee
The above have been there since at 2006. That's a start, or just needs refinement, or is it OK?

[Adey aka Ewok]

my post in the other thread

"I think the club rules and regulations need looking at"

[Moggy]

hhmmmmm