Lots of engine questions...

[BILLY-R5GTT]

I have been reading a few threads on the forum disscussing different engine options for the 5 GTT but I don't think there is a clear route for me to follow.

A couple of things I would like some information on if possible...

Power to cost what is the best engine option for a 5? Would the same money spent on a C1J get you a better engine?

Is it really worth spending 1000's on a 1400cc engine running at its limits or is it better spending money on a F4rt head and block with low comp pistons already in, or is it better starting with an F4r 172 engine stripping it and putting low comp pistons in then turboing it? (we had a similar chat at conner's day)

I love the C1J with a carb personally, it's origonal, easy to tune and maintain, which I would say is good for 220bhp all day long if built and set up right. But for the money getting it to that stage would it not be worth starting with 225 bhp i.e. f4rt and tuning that to get a much larger power gain?

I'm just worried that if I build my C1J to say 200bhp and I want more power i'm at a dead end unless I go for EFi. But from what I understand it's very expensive getting the inlet manifold made up and the management set up for it to work. I think I would have to see this done before I judge it.

Any injection engine in a 5 would need separate management to make it work properly (from what i've read) would that cost the same for all engines C1j, F4r (t), F4rt, b18ft. Is it a universal kit?

Someone else has mentioned you can just drop a f4r 172/182 engine in a 5 put a turbo on it and run it at 6psi safely is this true? And if it is does anyone know what the equivilent boost pressure be in a low comp engine be? (if that makes sense)

Can you put F4rt pistons in a F4r engine to lower the compression?

I really just want to find out what other people are running, reliability, costs, power and your own personal opinions. I would like 300bhp just to say I have a 300bhp R5, my last R5 GTT at 220ish bhp was fun on the B roads I couldn't imagine 300 I don't think there would be much on the road to catch it at all.

What I need to do is make a decision and stick with it then I can start buying all my bits. If I go for something other than a C1J I'll have all my engine, box, turbo etc... all coming up for sale to put towards what ever I am going to go for.

[DaveMayGTT]

Depending on what you already have it might work out better to just buy Dave Reeds car, not often one like that comes up and it looks stunning. Does take the fun out of doing it yourself though.

[Brigsy]

It all depends what power level you want? More power/torque more strain on the gearbox though.

[GTphil]

For 300hp and similar tourq, then I would have to say the f7p turbo'd with standalone management would be the most cost effective, with a jc5 box but like brigsy says at that power I would budget for a spare box or two on standby.

I'm not saying that power isn't achievable with a c1j because it is, but as you mentioned the costs involved would mean you could probably use a larger better designed engine and have scope for more power later on down the line for the same money or maybe even less than spending on a c1j.

If 220/230 is all you want then stick with the c1j.

So I suppose you need to decide on either 220hp or 300hp...........

[JP Racing]

you can build a cheap f7p turbo car but you wouldn't have the reliability than if you spend more money. When you start getting up to and over 300bhp on a f7p it becomes quite expensive to keep it reliable.

If you wanted around 300bhp you would need a f7p engine to start i personally would have it rebuilt as you never know what condition its in and as you need to take it apart to replace some of the bits it makes sense,also low comp pistons either have the tops skimmed down or forged ones, i think you would need rods too to be on the safe side, fuel pressure reg, bigger injectors around 500cc, uprated head gasket, stand alone ecu and loom all sensors which come with it or maybe the standard ecu at a push with the high boost chip mod thing, turbo manifold cast item will do, a turbo t28 would most likely be big enough for the power, fuel pump.... and most likely some other bits which i have missed out so if you can find all the parts you can roughly work out a cost

Or if you keep your eyes open they offen come up second hand as people change there mind on projects or move on so thats the best way to find one thats been done already

[Mart]

Is 300hp the new 200hp?

[JP Racing]

seems to be but then some who make 300bhp+ seem to want 500 greedy sods lol

[Mart]

[BILLY-R5GTT]

I would be looking for the new 200bhp (300bhp )

The F7p sounds good as I already have one in my 19 16v cabriolet which is going to get pulled out to make way for a standard 172/182 lump. So I would have my engine for free to base it off

But why the F7p and not the F7r or the F4r? I like the look of the F7p/r but are you not going backwards to achieve the same power? i.e. F7p 132bhp compared to F4r 172bhp? Although I understand alot of the power comes from the mapping etc...

I don't like the Idea of the turbo being down the back of the engine on the f7p/r, I noticed a picture of a 5 with an F7p fitted but the manifold allowed the turbo to sit in a similar place to the C1J. How much are these to get made up and is there anyone on here who can do them? And where would I get the management to set one of these engines up, Scoff possibly?

I think i might sell my C1J straight away when I get my 5 then I can't go back on my decision.

Also money is no object over a long period of time, not that i'm rich in the slightest, i'm just stupid .

PS you seem to have a good set up on your R5 JP

[Tutuur]

if you're serious i may have some interesting parts for you mate! going to strangle the stock engine components in a short while so maybe i could give you some more tips & tricks after that.

had a f7r with 1mm skimmed pistons so far with 0,7bar on a silvia t28. i think it was about 250bhp and 300nm+. now i'm building a new spec which will hopefully pass 300bhp.... oh, on stock rods and another set of skimmed pistons

mind you, F7p/r rods are beefier than f4 rods and people use the f4 rods to 300bhp...

[BILLY-R5GTT]

if you're serious i may have some interesting parts for you mate! going to strangle the stock engine components in a short while so maybe i could give you some more tips & tricks after that.

had a f7r with 1mm skimmed pistons so far with 0,7bar on a silvia t28. i think it was about 250bhp and 300nm+. now i'm building a new spec which will hopefully pass 300bhp.... oh, on stock rods and another set of skimmed pistons

mind you, F7p/r rods are beefier than f4 rods and people use the f4 rods to 300bhp...

Yeah let me know what you have mate, the F7p might be the way I am going to go if I can get an exhaust manifold made to bring the turbo out to a similar position as the C1J.

I've had a couple of Uno Turbo's and the turbo's on them are stuck down the rear of the engine. After working on them I know having a turbo down in that position is nothing but hassle.

[Tutuur]

Well make up your mind first mate i have megane 225 pisstons and might sell my downpipe but it's for rear mount obviously. Helix clutch with valeo cover as new.

MikeyB has a rear mount mani for sale.

[Os8472]

Cheap way of doing the turbo manifold, looking on eBay for tubular manifolds for other cars and just cut the head flange off and get suitable flange welded on.

I've worked out I can get a side mounted manifold for my turbo with a T3 flange will cost around 350

[BILLY-R5GTT]

Cheap way of doing the turbo manifold, looking on eBay for tubular manifolds for other cars and just cut the head flange off and get suitable flange welded on.

I've worked out I can get a side mounted manifold for my turbo with a T3 flange will cost around 350

Who's making your manifold and what engine are you running? £350 is a bargin .

[BILLY-R5GTT]

Well make up your mind first mate i have megane 225 pisstons and might sell my downpipe but it's for rear mount obviously. Helix clutch with valeo cover as new.

MikeyB has a rear mount mani for sale.

I would really have to have the turbo where I can get to it easily, but thanks for the offer

The clutch and that can wait till my engine is done, i'll tackle that when i get to it

[Hi 5]

C1j on efi is very good 360bhp and no problems very hard work to drive on the road

[BILLY-R5GTT]

C1j on efi is very good 360bhp and no problems very hard work to drive on the road

I'd have to look into it but I can't imagine the 1400cc liking it too much lol Everything must be forged for that power plus steel liners etc... I imagine. I'm sure when I attend the EFi RR day i'll be able to pick up a few idea's

[allanr5gtt]

i did hear you can get the f4r rear mounted turbo mani from renault from around £80. its the same manifold ktec sell. just need to find out which other renault its off?