Make classafides non members

[valverguy]

First post!

Hi everyone,

Quick complaint/winge.....

I am on the hunt for a nice 21 turbo, Ebay has very few same as piston heads, so i decide, ill search on a forum which is designed for them, To find that your website and classafides (sp) are not open to new members.

Why are we expected to pay £25 for a membership to possibly find a car?

I mean how can i be a member of RTOC if i cant even purchase a car?

Please do think about it, you are missing out on all sorts of trade by not allowing this, the rest of the site thats fine, I dont begrudge paying membership, but i do if you wont even give me a chance to buy a car that your website is specific to.

Frustrated newbie!

[BluntyR5GTT]

its to stop any random person coming on here just to solely rip people off, trust me its happened more than once, and most owners club forums require you to be a full member to post in classifieds.

there is a 21 turbo owners club on the net speak to andybond on here as im sure he has alot to do with it

[dangerous dave]

I've tried to post a longer reply but my phones closing down mid post.

Bottom line, we've had problems so there locked down to paying members. We are victims of people trying to rip members off and drive up prices based on bullsh1t and buy cheap on members claiming to have projects, only to sell on eBay for profit.

It's a shame it has a knock on effect and tucks up real enthusiasts.

[clee]

I'll save you the members fee ...there is only one 21 turbo up for sale on here anyway

http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.c...pic.php?t=4997

[BluntyR5GTT]

good shout and nice plug lee

[Gttnutter]

good shout and nice plug lee

Even better is the pair of coconuts bouncing around nice find lee...I'm in love

[valverguy]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi, Thanks for the replies, I understand where you are coming from. Shame really that it has ended in the for sale section being locked :-(, I suppose its the society we live in today.

Thanks for posting up the 21 turbo, im going to look the ad over now

[andybond]

21TOC.com also has 21turbos for sale ..

[clee]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Hi, Thanks for the replies, I understand where you are coming from. Shame really that it has ended in the for sale section being locked :-(, I suppose its the society we live in today.

Thanks for posting up the 21 turbo, im going to look the ad over now

It's mine .
Ive owned for a fair few years and generally kept on top of it .MOT till Nov ,tax Aug .New starter last week and all rot attended to for last MOT .

[shaggy]

Would it not be a good idea to have the cars for sale classifieds open for viewing only by nonmembers.

[car.crash]

Would it not be a good idea to have the cars for sale classifieds open for viewing only by nonmembers.

sounds good, i dont see any harm in people being scammed by a car for sale.

[jamie_8]

If you have the classified's open to non member's, the like's of raidergtt would be back up to their old tricks, mugging people off left, right and centre.

Best to keep it how it is, don't need those sort of people in the club, it's just a shame that people like that ruin it for everyone else....

[andybond]

Its a toughie for sure.

Let any riff raff in and you have trouble
Charge a £25 levy and you alienate some who don't want to pay that much.
Could a reduced rate of say £10 be introduced for buying / sellings classifieds only?

Some other boards I frequent ( passion ford ) charge you £10 to become a gold member so you can advertise without buying a full on subscription.

[steer from the rear]

What about viewing only? Say for instance some one wants a car, to get into gt's or a 21 turbo. Non members could view just cars for sale and if they see a add they like they would have to become a member to contact the seller.

This would shield the parts and wanted section from rougue trades/ rip offs

[shaggy]

If you have the classified's open to non member's, the like's of raidergtt would be back up to their old tricks, mugging people off left, right and centre.

Best to keep it how it is, don't need those sort of people in the club, it's just a shame that people like that ruin it for everyone else....

But hes asking to view the cars for sale not post on there. So whats wrong with nonmembers viewing the cars for sale, keep the rest of the classifieds closed.

[steer from the rear]

What about viewing only? Say for instance some one wants a car, to get into gt's or a 21 turbo. Non members could view just cars for sale and if they see a add they like they would have to become a member to contact the seller.

This would shield the parts and wanted section from rougue trades/ rip offs

Like DAVE said wooops

[Trevhib]

Allowing non-members the permissions to view 'cars for sale' in the classifieds gets my vote. What it does is open up RTOCers to a wider audience when trying to move a motor on. There's no risk attached to this.

Or how about this, put a radio button that sellers can select when posting a new advert that says -

'yes I'm happy to allow non-members to view this advert'.

That gives the choice to the seller as I can imagine one or two on here saying 'I'll get loads of calls from chavvy tyre kickers'.

[shaggy]

Allowing non-members the permissions to view 'cars for sale' in the classifieds gets my vote. What it does is open up RTOCers to a wider audience when trying to move a motor on. There's no risk attached to this.

Or how about this, put a radio button that sellers can select when posting a new advert that says -

'yes I'm happy to allow non-members to view this advert'.

That gives the choice to the seller as I can imagine one or two on here saying 'I'll get loads of calls from chavvy tyre kickers'.

Sounds good to me.

[Scoff]

I'll save you the members fee ...there is only one 21 turbo up for sale on here anyway

http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.c...pic.php?t=4997

Like a train in the night

[Scoff]

Allowing non-members the permissions to view 'cars for sale' in the classifieds gets my vote. What it does is open up RTOCers to a wider audience when trying to move a motor on. There's no risk attached to this.

Or how about this, put a radio button that sellers can select when posting a new advert that says -

'yes I'm happy to allow non-members to view this advert'.

That gives the choice to the seller as I can imagine one or two on here saying 'I'll get loads of calls from chavvy tyre kickers'.

It gets my vote too. The only possible downside might be that sellers need to be a little more carefull when folks come to view their car and with any transaction that might result, since they won't be sure that the person they are dealing with is a club member.

The radio button idea is a winner too, but unfortunately the BB software doesn't have such a function. The only solution might be to have 2 seperate "cars for sale" forums, one open to public and the other closed. That might get a bit sloppy though and would add to the moderators workload.

[Eugein Offord]

members can always post for sale ads on ebay etc if they want..... keep the classifieds civalised

[andybond]

Like a train in the night

21TOC says yes.

[Trevhib]

There are lots of places that members could use (and pay), to advertise their car outside of RTOC, that's not the point.

[Romil Davda]

My opinion: Keep it as it is... If you’re a fully paid member, you get full access to RTOC.

If you’re going to buy a Renault Turbo, you’re going to join RTOC right?!? Also, if your thinking about buying a RT, join up as the help and advise you receive is invaluable, not to mention you get to look at the classified too

[Big Steve - Raider]

My opinion: Keep it as it is... If you’re a fully paid member, you get full access to RTOC.

[D4WNO]

Ditto that sentiment. Afterall, we are a car enthusiasts club, not a Classifieds site. It's just something extra that we have as part of the membership

[chezzer85]

Ditto that sentiment. Afterall, we are a car enthusiasts club, not a Classifieds site. It's just something extra that we have as part of the membership

I believe that some members advertise their cars on here because they want their car to stay within the club, and so often advertise it at a reduced price than say ebay or piston heads.

[Trevhib]

Giving current members the option for their advert to be seen by the wider public is a benefit to the paying RTOC member, not some sort of free give away to outsiders.

Advertising in this way could even ATTRACT new members to the club. Maybe in keeping with this, perhaps it should be restricted to sales of Renaults that are allowed to go public?

As discussed, if there's an option to choose whether the classified is made public or not, it totally removes the concern for those who wish to keep their advert internal and/or offer a better deal to existing club members (jeez you could even add a RTOC members price if you wanted the best of both worlds).

Also, most car clubs have a section for buying/selling cars. It's an integral part of an online enthusiasts club, not an add on.

To be frank I'm not seeing any genuine reason not to allow this to happen. Under the conditions described above, where's the risk/harm to either club or member?

[Tony Walker]

I remember before i bought my 5, i used to search for hours dreaming of owning one. i never considered joining the club because i didnt own a 5. The majority of the 5s at the time for sale werent in the club and were pretty poor examples, but not knowing anything about them i went ahead and bought a rusty (freshly painted) dog of a car which could of put me off 5s(and other new members) If nice examples would of been available outside the club then more new members could be atracted?

[clee]

I can't see any harm in having non members able to view ads at all .Too much of a closed shop and we'll never attract new blood .

[andybond]

Can members request an agenda item on a committee meeting ?


Could put it to vote then ..

[D4WNO]

Anything suggested throughout the year can be discussed ad-hoc so no need to wait til the end of July. I'll start a thread on the Committee area of the forum to discuss this tonight

Everyone, please still continue to post your thoughts/ideas on the subject as we'll be using the members input to base any discussion on

[andybond]

Thank you !

[Trevhib]

[Ian S]

As Scoff said, the vB forum is not really good enough for this use.

Maybe at one time is was viewable to non members, on the previous site, before vB. A new classifieds section was never re-created and the forum was a quick fix.

Those of you who feel it should be open must live in nice areas. What would happen is that thieves will scan the ads: shiny expensive bits for sale in villageham, middle county. They already know of the car, they go there and steal the bits and sell them on eBay.

Over the years my 5GTT was broken into and stolen from so many times without them knowing there was anything worth taking and mostly there wasn't anything worth taking and they did damage to just find that out. Or stole bumpers, lights, even wipers and gutters. Either keep it secret or don't have such a car are were my options.

There always the risk that low life will anyway pay £25 to join and see who has what, but it's less likely.

As Scoff says, there would have to be duplicated ads, one set with members details viewable and one not.

Maybe with the passing of time, the 5GTT is not so much the extreme target for theft as it was??

[R5MJH]

My opinion: Keep it as it is... If you’re a fully paid member, you get full access to RTOC.

Also agreed.

[Trevhib]

Ian,

So there's a website workaround, great, and since that workaround gives the members the choice whether to go public with their ads or not, there are no remaining issues.

It's not up to the club to decide whether a member should take that risk. I can't see how it would be any more risky than advertising on Autotrader.

Doing this for members is an added benefit for members and potentially an added benefit for the club via wider advertising of Renault Turbos.

[Ian S]

No I didn't say there's a workaround. I said there isn't one

What has been said is that another board or more would have to be created and people manually advertise in both, or one of their choosing. Then the moderator would have more work to do.

Autotrader would just show the item and the email or mobile number and not the area you live in and your profile photos, etc?

Yes it of of course up to individual members to chose take their own risk but we can't open it to all because that would give many members who don't want that no choice but to not advertise on this open forum. On eBay you're identity is hidden.

The fix is to find and hire a software expert to write a suitable classifieds section.

All the people I spoke to so far could not even begin to attempt such a thing, professional programmers or not.

Another aspect is that currently people pay to join to sell their car and because they bought a car and want to look for parts. That has brought the club a fair bit of money. With anyone able to view the ads then contact the seller, the clubs funding is cut.

It would mean having PM's as the only means of contacting the seller, so the buyer has to join. Some sellers prefer a mobile phone contact and not PM's.

[Trevhib]

"What has been said is that another board or more would have to be created and people manually advertise in both, or one of their choosing. Then the moderator would have more work to do."

Sounds like a work around to me

In the public ad there may be links to member profiles/pics etc but I assume in the event of a non-member clicking on them, it would not result in the page being brought up?? If that's not the case, does it mean that non-members in receipt of a direct RTOC club link are able to view pages that they shouldn't?

Also, the location of the car and personal details isn't an issue. R5Scotty is selling his car from Norwich for example, that's all we know. There don't appear to be any personal details and thieves are not going to know where in Norwich the car is. Or am I missing something?: https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=25969

Yes public ads will require a mobile number or junk email address to be provided but that's up to the member if they wish to take that risk.

I don't see how allowing existing members to advertise publicly has any affect on who will join the club in order to sell their car, or who will join in order to get parts?? These seem to be distinct sets of people, I don't see any overlap?

Bear in mind the suggestion is that only members selling Renaults can go public.

I do accept that there would be some additional mod work to be done. On average it looks about one new advert for Renault car sales a day is put up...

[andybond]

No I didn't say there's a workaround. I said there isn't one

Ian - that's not correct. You can set permissions per forum section. It'd under admincp / user groups / forum permissions.

[Ian S]

Yes, thanks that is correct, as already said, one or more new boards can be created and one set as 'open' but the not correct part is that there isn't an easy work around for the problem of all the duplication, etc.

[andybond]

Ian, unless I am being obtuse ( I hope not! ) if you use the user groups correctly you could set the acls correctly. Eg


Classified
-->cars nonmember set to allow read / deny post
-->parts nonmember set to allow read / deny post

You can then keep the acl for members. No duplication needed there?

Have I missed something obvious?

[Ian S]

Just that we can't open the whole car section as many members want us not to for reasons stated above. Scoff and I did go though all this three or four years ago and I can't remember now what non members can view, etc. I know that non paying registered users can send PM's.

So those that are happy to reveal their identity to the wider world will have to place their ad in a new board. Then the moderator has more work to do. And if sellers place their mobile number, buyer will be circumventing the normal requirement to join in order to contact the seller. And I expect we can't stop non members from PM'ing member to make purchases.

There is the aspect of attracting non members to the club by showing them cars for sale, but we'd need a way to prevent them using PM's as well. Also prevent the profile being shown, or maybe that is blocked now, I don't recall. And the seller must not show their address and phone number. Or we've cancelled the need to join and the club loses some money. Some of the buyers might join some might not.

Maybe this need for high security has passed with time and the age of these car and are they not not stolen by teenagers and robbers and parts re-sellers, etc.

Things must have changed with the drastic reduction in the numbers of the clubs main car; 5GTT. A few years ago were cycling through more members leaving and new ones joining each year than we even have as members now. Out core renewing membership then was about 400. After the increase in joining fee the renewals went to about 600. I don't know the statistics now.

Point being, if only middle aged and well off younger people are interested in these cars maybe security is not so important. There won't be a queue of people lining up to break into and thieve £10 parts from these cars?

[andybond]

Fair point(s) Ian. My apologies - not meaning to offend or cause distress.

I like the idea of creating a new subcategory ( if the open to all members idea is rejected ) marked Classified for All. So that the people posting in that area know that there ad would be visable by all ..

No need for extra mod work then.

[Ian S]

Yeah there still is, as he has to delete all the old adds that are left there otherwise. And check the posting rules are complied with. Unless the seller only posts once. But that's still another board to have to look though each day or so. Not a lot extra though.

Anyway, I've been thinking for some time of splitting the boards into more categories, like it used to be, to make it a lot easier to find what you want.

Today I got a request from a non member saying he had a P reg campus he wanted to scrap. Didn't want to join to sell it. Normally I ask them to join and advertise but as the car might be worth only the joining fee I'm not sure what to do as maybe some member would want that car??

[Trevhib]

Why is nothing with this club or website ever simple

[clee]

Because the whole website is custom and 'Special' in whatever context you want to take that
We could change but would lose a lot of the features outside of the forum .Is that a bad thing ? I dunno, how much use is made of the Blue band features ?

[Trevhib]

I know bud. Over the last few years the whole bespoke website shebang has been a close call in cost benefit terms IMO.

The most difficult thing to live with is the near total lack of control over maintenance and development.

[andybond]

Its a bit of a funny beast.

Custom means exactly that , but you a reliant on a tweaker(coder)

Out of the box means you loose the tweaks , but gain a stable upgradable platform.

[Trevhib]

Hi Andy

Aye, and when speaking to Ian about that previously it seemed the coder needed to be conversant in about half a dozen disparate languages, DBs and systems to be able to get a handle on the damn thing in its entirety. To the point that there wasn't an IT expert in the country who had the requisite mix of skills.

Over the years we've lurched from one single point of failure to another and then to a website so complicated it's impossible for any individual to support

Poor old Ian has had an absolute nightmare.