Well I have now replaced the fuel pump as the other one was definatly not working properly so I now have a nice flow of fuel to the rail. The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there, the engine is turning on the starter and the car is wanting to run but as soon as you take your hand of the ignition key she diesIt's got to be something electrical.
Check the TPS mate, have you tried half throttle, part throttle etc?? It sounds like not enough fuel is getting into the cylinders? It could be that the TPS or maybe TDC aint regestering to the ecu?? This is the problem with standard ecu's, you cant see whats going on. I would suggest getting the meter out and checking you have supply to the sensors. Other thoughts ....is the fuel pump running on after the key is released?? You could wire it to a switch to eliminate the possibility of the ecu telling it to shut off.
Not smething I would reconmend doing, I did that on a hot day once and sh!t myself when one of them ignited!!Originally Posted by James5
The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there,
**** I was trying to elimnate getting fuel, going to have another play later when I can be bothered it's going to be somthing simple I know it. I am going to look at my positive feeds as once you turn the key to start and then let go it dies a must be something to do with my constant feed
or ignition lives - maybe you have the ignition live for the ECU taken from the starter exciter or something wierd like that.
Hmm going to have another play tonight.
Been out for the last coupl of hours with my multimeter and wiring guide and still no joy what I have seems to be wired up fine, I even managed to wire up the GTT dash rev counter and oil pressure switch whilst trying to sort this out.
Don't know what to do now am totally clueless
Anybody local good with elecs fancy taking a gander to see what they think a 2nd pair of eyes might help
So does it fire up then stall?
Have you tried holding the throttle open? Is the pump still running constantly?
When you turn the key to start she sounds like she is firing and trying to run but then she stalls / die's
I have tried with the throttle open and tried pumping the accelerator pedal to which makes little if any difference. The pump is still sounding when the key is held to start
Sounds like this
Last edited by James5; 05-04-2009 at 23:09.
Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems
Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems
I am really trying just got to a part which is now baffling me, I think I may wait for you to get yours in and running so you can tell me what i need to do
Wire the pump up to a switch then report back.
That sounds sooo close !!
Will try that later tonight.
Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated
It is very close going to run switch to the fuel pump as suggested above.
Hows yours coming on??
Well it's coming on.. I need to be ready for 10 may as I've planned to do a hill climb..
It just needs plumbing up which I plan to do this week and then it's onto the wiring that I'm not looking forward to - I plan to do that next week.. so hopefully I should be turning the key somewhere around the 20th, giving me a couple of weeks to iron out any issues although it's cutting things a little tight especially if I get nowehere with the mapping!!
Just thinking there aren't any pipes comng out the inlet/throttle bodie that you haven't blocked up.. or one way vlaves you've missed from the brake servo etc..
Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated
Nah got a one way valve in place for servo, Just blocked up the carbon canister pipe as I left it open but made no difference.
I'll try this fuel supply switch 1st then go from there.
Good luck with getting yours running matey
I'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak
I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth
Hope you get it sorted soon mate.
I think that's unlikely to cause that type of problem as the 172 uses a MAP sensorI'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak
I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth
Hope you get it sorted soon mate.
Well got the fuel pump on a switch and does give constant supply of fuel but still no start I have removed the plenium to note that where the coil pack sits my connections are a little rusty from where the water comes through the 16v vent so have cleaned them up need to get a couple of bolts to fit as 2 of them rusty as anything will play again tomoz
It'll either be a wiring issue or an issue with the ECU itself. I don't know how the 172's immo works usually, but if it's anything like some of the VW ones it might allow the motor to run for a second and then cut-out, so maybe the immo removal didn't take properly ?
Anyone local got phase 1 172 that I can test my ecu on???
it still sounds like fuel to me, that fuel pressure gauge sounds like a good idea, don't forget that it'll be 3 bar, so you'll need to use something like an oil pressure gauge as a boost gauge won't go high enough.
Did you unplug that pipe?
Have you kept the OBD port? if you can borrow a reader (RSTuner for example) you should be able to see what's going on - maybe you're throwing an error up?
Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1
try and get the connector and a length of wire , it'll be worth it for times like this.
I almost just ordered an RSTuner for this very reason, then noticed that they're out of stock...
all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring
all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring
Going to get a fuel pressure Gauge and T piece so I can see what the rail is getting.
I hate wiringOh why didn't I go standalone in the 1st place
This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me
This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me
My ECU is definatly getting a constant live feed & ignition live feed.
I defo think this is fuel related! I thinkas soon as the injectors open the fuel pressure is dropping hence not running for long.
Also going to double check that I am getting a spark going to make sure all coil contacts are clean, whats the best way to test for spark on these engines?
Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand
Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand
So when do you fancy coming over
Don't think I will be holding it in my hand
Last edited by James5; 07-04-2009 at 16:58.
try unplugging the TPS and the MAP sensor and trying it, maybe there is something wrong and they are throwing up errors. My guess is that if you unplug them the ECU will revert to a default setting that might let it run? Worth a shot?
Will give that a try tonight when I get in from work
Update
I am sitting in the r5 on the itouch (using the Internet) I have spark, i have 3.5 bar fuel pressure to the rail, she cranks, I have good battery charge, I have unplugged the tps and map sensor and this has made no difference at all. HELP
try sticking a few more earths onto the engine, use jump leads from the battery, get one onto the plenum... Clutching at straws i know!!
tdc sensor problem?
Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble
LOL I have already got 4 earth points will try the jump leads
Has the immobiliser definitely being taken off by ecu clinic, as a couple of the guys on cliosport doing the conversion had problems with the ecu not being decoded properly.
Just a thought as you seem to have tried everything else.
Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble
made no difference with the jump leads in place
My ECU was demobilised with an emulator by RStuning http://www.rstuning.co.uk/ some pics further back in this thread somewhere but i am thinking it is ECU related.
I suppose even if I was to test the ECU on friends phase 1 clio 172 it work make no difference as the phase 1 would have the decoded key and the other unit required to get past the ecu???
Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it
Not likely since it runs for 1 second, I think ECU too. Try it on someone else's clio james.Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it
Chris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan
unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiserChris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan
unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiser
I have just pm'd one of the blokes on the www.cliosport.net who has done the conversion into a mark 1 clio and uses a demobilised 172 ECU to see if he would be willing for me to send him my ECU to test it on his car if it works I know the ECU is fine and it's my dogey wiring.
i really wana do this engine swap but after reading this i think ill get an aftermarket ecu to control everything
The guys that did the conversion on cliosport had problems with rstuning with regards to decoding them. I think beaniemoo used ecu clinic might be worth giving them a call.
There's a guy on the coupe-club putting a 172 into a coupe and he's used rstuning to decode his I'll let you know whether his fires up or not.
That would be good if you could find out and let me know.
Again many thanks to everyone for all the advice and tips.
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