low oil pressure and white smoke

[Nad-5GTT]

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Thursday, July 21, 2011

Logout [ nadgtt1982 ] 0 new messages

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Last visit was: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:56 pm

It is currently Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:56 pm

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Board index » TECHNICAL ISSUES » Renault 5 GT Turbo
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Ive just taken the car for a run, mainly motorway driving, now when i get to a standstill ie roundabout the pressure light flickers the gauge reads about 10psi on idle and then once up to speed its about 40psi, ive the correct amount of oil and the oil is 10w 40 halfords purple bottle.

Just to add to my worries ive noticed alot of white smoke once id arrived home, i dont recall seeing any smoke whilst on journey. It was smoking whilst oil light was flickering.

Ive just checked oil for mayo and its clean oil ive also checked water and its fine just a nice blue antifreeze colour Ive just started car up in garage about 30mins after switching her off after me run and the light isnt flickering and ive no white smoke, what is going on HELP PLEASE regards neil

[Nad-5GTT]

god im ****e with computers sorry

[Nad-5GTT]

Ive just taken the car for a run, mainly motorway driving, now when i get to a standstill ie roundabout the pressure light flickers the gauge reads about 10psi on idle and then once up to speed its about 40psi, ive the correct amount of oil and the oil is 10w 40 halfords purple bottle.

Just to add to my worries ive noticed alot of white smoke once id arrived home, i dont recall seeing any smoke whilst on journey. It was smoking whilst oil light was flickering.

Ive just checked oil for mayo and its clean oil ive also checked water and its fine just a nice blue antifreeze colour Ive just started car up in garage about 30mins after switching her off after me run and the light isnt flickering and ive no white smoke, what is going on HELP PLEASE regards neil [/quote]

Ive just checked for play on turbo and theres no in or out but ive got about 2mm side to side, its a gaytec 230 and only done around 400miles is this movement ok

[Alex]

I presume you're using an aftermarket gauge? If not plumb one in and forget the standard gauge readings! 10 psi idle and 40 psi once warm is fine so all being true it could be a fault with the pressure sensor, but you really need to check the pressure with a known good gauge if in doubt.

[Nad-5GTT]

I presume you're using an aftermarket gauge? If not plumb one in and forget the standard gauge readings! 10 psi idle and 40 psi once warm is fine so all being true it could be a fault with the pressure sensor, but you really need to check the pressure with a known good gauge if in doubt.

Its an aftermarket pressure gauge and the oil pressure warning switch is a brand new one that comes on below 5psi i think the gauge did drop below 10psi hence why the warning light kept flickering but i was in traffic so had to keep moving so was hard to monitor all the time.

I will add that i had to take sump off to replace timing chain pulley seal about a month ago, do you think i may have got some sealent caught on the bottom of the oil pick up filter thingymebob as it was hard to get sump in place without hitting something.

Also the 1st time i started car after putting sump on the low pressure warning light was lit for about 2 minutes i assumed id knocked the wiring so didnt worry to much, it was only when it turned off that i wondered why it had done this.

I dont get to use the car much but im 80% sure the low pressure wasnt around before i took sump off, could there be anything in this, also any ideas on the white smoke. cheers neil

[Alex]

I beleive normally oil pressure switches come on when there's NO pressure, but I could be wrong. None the less circa 10 psi idle and 40 psi top end isn't bad. Perhaps check the switch wiring to make sure there's no short somewhere from when you were putting the sump back on?

[Hoolio]

White smoke-don't use the car that much, possibly just the condensation burning off from inside the exhaust.

[Nad-5GTT]

I beleive normally oil pressure switches come on when there's NO pressure, but I could be wrong. None the less circa 10 psi idle and 40 psi top end isn't bad. Perhaps check the switch wiring to make sure there's no short somewhere from when you were putting the sump back on?

Im sure the pressure switch comes on when its below 5psi but mines not a standard renault one just a universal jobbie from a kit car place, if it only came on when you have no pressure atall then its not really a warning, but im a novice at this sort of thing so im not argueing. Also if the wiring was shorten out surely it would be on all the time, as soon as i drive away it goes Ive borrowed me mates compression tester so ill do this later on to try and find out why ive got white smoke.

[Nad-5GTT]

White smoke-don't use the car that much, possibly just the condensation burning off from inside the exhaust.

I didnt have any white smoke issues the time i drove it before last which was 250mile round rip to pod day, then yesterday i took it down the coast about 30 mile round trip and it wasnt untill i got home that it started to smoke, then after leaving it for 30mins i start her up and no smoke im hoping ive not blown me head gasket, no mayo in oil and ive got blue antifreeze coolant with no oil residue.

[Fordy]

Turbo oil seal leaking?

drive the car get it hot
then leave it to idle for a bit 5-10minutes
if the smoke gradually appears on idle then as you drive away it clears after a bit of driving then I'd say its probably the Turbo oil seal worn. the smoke may be whiteish grey if so

if its smoking constantly for 30miles then something more major perhaps

[Nad-5GTT]

Turbo oil seal leaking?

drive the car get it hot
then leave it to idle for a bit 5-10minutes
if the smoke gradually appears on idle then as you drive away it clears after a bit of driving then I'd say its probably the Turbo oil seal worn. the smoke may be whiteish grey if so

Umm this is exactly what its doing, ive checked for play and when cold its moving about 2mm side to side, nothing in or out. Im not happy at the mo i bought this turbo brand new from ktec many years ago and ive barely done 400miles on it and now i find the seals are shot how much to get these repaired

[Nad-5GTT]

Well ive just done a compression test and well shes dead with a warm engine and all plugs out i got
cyl 1- 0 psi
cyl 2-10psi
cyl 3-25psi
cyl 4-25psi

after that i put all plugs in and i got 0 0 0 0 on all cylinders. would this be correct or do you think the gauge is broken i started at cylinder 4 if it helps.

Just going to put a few pointers down for you peeps to ponder over
I started her up before doing the test and let her idle for about 30mins and it was smoking quite alot but on closer inspection ie putting me fingers in tailpipe it was condensation.

She started fine and ticked over fine and when revved was fine, if say one cylinder had no compression would it not sound rough

Also just to point out ive fitted a mocal oil temp thermostat that fits in the oil lines now ive definately fitted it the correct way, but i was monitoring it whilst it was running and the lines that go up to the thermostat and back to engine (with it being closed) get hot. but the lines after the thermostat that go to cooler were still cold.

My querie here is should the oil have got up to 80degrees at tickover for 30mins and then opened the stat to then go through the cooler because if it should have got up to that temp in that time then it means i was driven about with the oil not going through the cooler.

Sorry its a long one, if you know what your talking about please give me some advice though

Oh one more thing cyl 1 had a tiny amount of oil come out the plug hole

[5teve L]

Did you do the comp test with the throttle open ?
Those results aren't good at all really
I usually just take out the one plug on the bore I'm testing & remove king lead, foot to the floor & turn over a few seconds.

[Fordy]

got to argee them results really dont look right fella

if you had 0 psi it would be running on 3 and missfiring which i'm sure you'd of noticed

i recon your tester is faulty or it wasnt screwed in 100% and was leaking alot, do you know anyone with a good tester?

[Nad-5GTT]

got to argee them results really dont look right fella

if you had 0 psi it would be running on 3 and missfiring which i'm sure you'd of noticed

i recon your tester is faulty or it wasnt screwed in 100% and was leaking alot, do you know anyone with a good tester?

This is what i thought because smoke aside it was running like a dream before i did the test, i recon the tester is dead because i tried cyl 4 again which gave me 25psi at the start and it read 0 ive got another tester from another mate should be dropping it off later today so ill put results up.

[Nad-5GTT]

Did you do the comp test with the throttle open ?
Those results aren't good at all really
I usually just take out the one plug on the bore I'm testing & remove king lead, foot to the floor & turn over a few seconds.

Alright Steve ye i did the test with the pedal down, i also did test with all other plugs in im guessing me mates £8 ebay tester isnt that good because something doesnt sound right with them readings.

On the other hand though im sure something has gone wrong, so im getting around to the idea that its game up for the old 5 for this year, with a loft conversion coming up in 7 weeks time i dont have any spare cash to remedy whats gone wrong, so it will be cancel insurance, get me tax rebated then push her into corner off shed couple of sheets over and let her sleep for a long time

[5teve L]

Alright Steve ye i did the test with the pedal down, i also did test with all other plugs in im guessing me mates £8 ebay tester isnt that good because something doesnt sound right with them readings.

On the other hand though im sure something has gone wrong, so im getting around to the idea that its game up for the old 5 for this year, with a loft conversion coming up in 7 weeks time i dont have any spare cash to remedy whats gone wrong, so it will be cancel insurance, get me tax rebated then push her into corner off shed couple of sheets over and let her sleep for a long time

Shame you aren't a bit closer I have a comp tester you could have borrowed to try again. I wouldn't have thought the car would even run or start with comp that low so lets hope the tester is fooked & that it's just the turbo, just to say, if you had a new build & no in line filter to the turbo that what could have killed it

[Fordy]

where you located nad?

[Nad-5GTT]

where you located nad?

Im down in Sittingbourne North kent fella abit far from you if you was offering.
Anyone else local to me fancy having a gander ive got plenty of bacon.

My mates struggling to find his tester if no one offers ill have to buy one i guess anyone know where to get a good but cheap one.

[Nad-5GTT]

Shame you aren't a bit closer I have a comp tester you could have borrowed to try again. I wouldn't have thought the car would even run or start with comp that low so lets hope the tester is fooked & that it's just the turbo, just to say, if you had a new build & no in line filter to the turbo that what could have killed it

Ye that would have been nice, it would be good if someone thats got a clue with these cars could have a look around me engine for me id pay your petrol, within reason obviously anyone out there in kent

[Nad-5GTT]

Right ive gone and bought a tester as me mate couldnt find his and the results are...

135psi on cylinder 1,2,3 and 140psi on cyl 4 this was on a cold engine as i couldnt be arsed to put all the plugs back in etc. Now im definately no expert but does this rule out my engine, head and head gasket as to why ive got smoke??

If this is the case is it the turbo, ive minimal side to side play when cold, and none in or out also ive taken the intercooler hose of and its bone dry ie no oil going this way.

Does anyone know how long it takes an idling engine to reach 80degrees celcius, im not sure my brand new oil stat is functioning right and ive broken me capillary line so cant check oil temp, im going to have to take the stat out and drop it into some boiling water, if it wasnt to be opening could this be why my oil pressure is getting low? maybe im clutching at straws but got to go through all possibilities

[Tony Walker]

idling engine would take along time to get to 80c(oil temp). maybe 30mins maybe even longer?
Compression results are good, low cylinder compression has no effect on oil pressure tho. resistance to the flow of the oil is what causes the pressure, so worn bottom end bearings,worn cam bearings(nothing you can do about these tho), worn pump, sticking pressure valve/old spring, worn turbo bearings, all can cause loss of pressure. If the gauge is reading below 5psi and your light is flickering then i'd say chances are your pressure is low, if your gauge is above that pressure but your light is flickering then possibly the light is shorting/vibrating on something chances are it would probably flicker on gear changes and accelerating/decelerating hard.

where abouts have you fitted your gauge/light? what does your std gauge read? maybe its fitted after the stat somehow in which case there wont be any pressure there till the stat opens?(clutching at straws really)

[Nad-5GTT]

idling engine would take along time to get to 80c(oil temp). maybe 30mins maybe even longer?
Compression results are good, low cylinder compression has no effect on oil pressure tho. resistance to the flow of the oil is what causes the pressure, so worn bottom end bearings,worn cam bearings(nothing you can do about these tho), worn pump, sticking pressure valve/old spring, worn turbo bearings, all can cause loss of pressure. If the gauge is reading below 5psi and your light is flickering then i'd say chances are your pressure is low, if your gauge is above that pressure but your light is flickering then possibly the light is shorting/vibrating on something chances are it would probably flicker on gear changes and accelerating/decelerating hard.

where abouts have you fitted your gauge/light? what does your std gauge read? maybe its fitted after the stat somehow in which case there wont be any pressure there till the stat opens?(clutching at straws really)

Cheers for reply Tony, well i know its definately getting low pressure at idle when hot because the mechanical gauge and warning light both correspond with each other ie when gauge gets to 5psi then the warning light comes on ive got my warning light switch and gauge cappillary line on a brass t piece that bolts under where the turbo oil feed is.

I dont use the car much so its hard to work out when it started but im sure the light only started to flicker after id sorted an oil leak, could i have dragged a load of sealent from sump onto the oil pump pickup filter when getting the sump in place? I know it was hard not to get the sealent caught on something.

[5teve L]

Could have clogged the strainer, yes.
Looks like sump off again mate

[Nad-5GTT]

Could have clogged the strainer, yes.
Looks like sump off again mate

It would be nice if it was that to be honest ill wip it off tonight if i get chance. Is it easier to take off the engine mount to get it sump back in place and if so how do i support the engine if i havent a crane?

Any ideas on why shes smoking, although it did seem more like condensation than thick smoke

[5teve L]

It would be nice if it was that to be honest ill wip it off tonight if i get chance. Is it easier to take off the engine mount to get it sump back in place and if so how do i support the engine if i havent a crane?

Any ideas on why shes smoking, although it did seem more like condensation than thick smoke

Really hard to say without seeing the car TBH, at least the comp test was ok this time
Was it loosing water, if not it points toward turbo usually
Actually, check the breather isn't blocked as well.

[Nad-5GTT]

Really hard to say without seeing the car TBH, at least the comp test was ok this time
Was it loosing water, if not it points toward turbo usually
Actually, check the breather isn't blocked as well.

Ye i was pleased ive got good comp readings now, i then rang me mate and told him off for buying a cheap ebay tester

No i dont think its lossing water but its only done about 30miles after i saw it start smoking. Ill have a look at the breathing tonight too then, i did take the hose off the oil seperator and had a look in the pot and it was bone dry, is this a good thing.

Again anyone local to me in kent fancy looking over her for me

[Brigsy]

This sounds like classic smokey turbo to me.

40 psi oil pressure on a hot engine isnt too bad, but if your taking the sump off check the oil pump internals for wear, worth shimming the prv a couple of mm with a sprung washer whilst its off.

[Nad-5GTT]

This sounds like classic smokey turbo to me.

40 psi oil pressure on a hot engine isnt too bad, but if your taking the sump off check the oil pump internals for wear, worth shimming the prv a couple of mm with a sprung washer whilst its off.

Cheers for taken time to reply and while im hear me and me m8 loved your van at pod day

Its 40psi whilst its moving, im worried and wondering why ive very little pressure whilst its idling , umm turbo on its way out very annoying as its a ktec 230 that i bought brand new (i must have had deep pockets back then ) around 6 years ago and ive only just got car on road and barely covered 400miles on it.

Would it just be crap in oil that has fooked it then, and how much will someone charge to get this repaired?

Erm shimming the prv? would this be obvious once i take it off, and where would the oil pump be worn out ie what to look out for many thanks neil

[Tony Walker]

If your gauge and line are inline with the turbo feed, check the one way valve on the turbo feed at the very base.. could be blocked/jammed, causing low pressure, does your standard light and gauge show poor pressure??? turbo bearings could be goosed and loosing pressure. if you have 40psi on a hot engine then your pump.engine internals sound like there good. so pressure loss is at the turbo end for some reason?

[Tony Walker]

theres and article for oil pump information, but i personally dont think your pump is to blame. 40psi when hot is ok.

[peter GT muir]

gunna put my 2 pennys worth in, ive had 2 gtt with knackerd turbos and both had a white smoke out the the back

[Nad-5GTT]

If your gauge and line are inline with the turbo feed, check the one way valve on the turbo feed at the very base.. could be blocked/jammed, causing low pressure, does your standard light and gauge show poor pressure??? turbo bearings could be goosed and loosing pressure. if you have 40psi on a hot engine then your pump.engine internals sound like there good. so pressure loss is at the turbo end for some reason?

Ive not got any standard gauges or warning lights. I will check the turbo feed, didnt realise there was a one way valve there, also going to take sump off and check i havent dragged sump sealent over the pick up strainer. May aswell look at the pump whilst its looking at me

[Nad-5GTT]

This sounds like classic smokey turbo to me.

40 psi oil pressure on a hot engine isnt too bad, but if your taking the sump off check the oil pump internals for wear, worth shimming the prv a couple of mm with a sprung washer whilst its off.

Ive wipped the sump off and have found alot of inside, i think i went over the top with the sump sealent
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...1&d=1311687990

Doh, i dont think the turbo would like this.

The last two pics are my attempt at shimming the pump, its a 2mm sprung washer could someone let me know if this is correct, i feel like i shouldnt be anywhere near a spanner after seeing all that in the sump
One more thing ive undone the three bolts holding the pump in but i cant get the pump to come away any tips here

[STEVEN ROOTSEY]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Ive wipped the sump off and have found alot of inside, i think i went over the top with the sump sealent
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...1&d=1311687990

Doh, i dont think the turbo would like this.

The last two pics are my attempt at shimming the pump, its a 2mm sprung washer could someone let me know if this is correct, i feel like i shouldnt be anywhere near a spanner after seeing all that in the sump
One more thing ive undone the three bolts holding the pump in but i cant get the pump to come away any tips here

You can shim it like that but run a slight risk of it falling out. On mine ,I put 2 small normal washers in the little cup with the hole in it. They sit in the cup before the spring goes in it, then put the all together and refit the split pin. Don't forget that shimming the pump only gives you more presure with higher revs, as it only makes the PRV open later.

[Tony Walker]

You say you've undone the 3 bolts holding the pump on but it wont come out.... pretty sure thats your problem? theres 4 bolts? lol unless im being daft? with the bolts undone 3or4 it should slide out unless some sealant has been used on the mating faces... this i wouldnt really advise on reassembly.

[Nad-5GTT]

You say you've undone the 3 bolts holding the pump on but it wont come out.... pretty sure thats your problem? theres 4 bolts? lol unless im being daft? with the bolts undone 3or4 it should slide out unless some sealant has been used on the mating faces... this i wouldnt really advise on reassembly.

There was definately 3 10mm bolts screwed into the underside of block, two were small and one was longer, i got them out and the whole pump spun round but i just couldnt pull it down and away. The pickup strainer had four hex bolts which i was able to do.

I gave up on trying to get pump out and put the sump back on, could anyone let me know if ive done a booboo by shimming the pump the way i have, i copied it off a thread i came across on here

[James5]

There was definately 3 10mm bolts screwed into the underside of block, two were small and one was longer, i got them out and the whole pump spun round but i just couldnt pull it down and away. The pickup strainer had four hex bolts which i was able to do.

I gave up on trying to get pump out and put the sump back on, could anyone let me know if ive done a booboo by shimming the pump the way i have, i copied it off a thread i came across on here

Oil pump is 3 bolts to block, and the 4 bolts hold the low part of the oil pump to the oil pump main body. They do tend to be a little stiff if not been off for a long time a little twist and tug normally gets them off.

Shimming the pump is just a case of doing what you have done and putting a 3-5mm space in place as you have should increase oil pressure @ high revs by about 10psi, also removing the one way valve on the turbo oil feed pipe will give you an extra 5psi increase aswell

[Nad-5GTT]

[Brigsy]

I usually fit a smaller sprung washer inside the cup where the spring goes in, less chance of the washer moving.

[Nad-5GTT]

Right a new question/problem but related to the 1st pics above in thread suite in sump pics. I've had problems getting oil out of the turbo feed, so I've packed the pump with Vaseline and cranked it over & nothing came out the turbo feed ( it did out of the oil line going to cooler though ). So I've just butchered my dizzy drive to enable me to use drill to turn the pump and still not a drop of oil can be seen, I've not got a blockage in turbo feed as I was able to blow through it, and I've taken the banjo away from the block. Now if you see the crap in the pic above I'm guessing this has got trapped somewhere. Has anyone got any idea where I've got a blockage and how I can get this out, I'm thinking blow into the block where the banjo sits with compressed air. Please help