Timing dizzy gear quick question

[James5]

Ok a few months back I had a slight problem with my dizzy timing as I knocked the dizzy gear out which caused the car to hesitate at a certain rpm. I then reset it by placing the flywheel Tdc alignment mark up with the 0 on the gearbox bell housing thinking this was correct for my engine always good but when hitting 3500rpm I was still getting the hesitation problems but only on boost! I currently have my engine apart and just put the bottom end back together and thought I would sort the dizzy gear out whilst the head was off. My engine is at tdc betwen the 0 and 6 on the bellhousing ? So I am thinking that by timing the dizzy gear to 0 it was still incorrect for my engine and I have therefore adjusted the gear to tdc at between 0 & 6 on bellhousing.
Why would this be?

[Mart]

French tolerances. Never take the tdc gearbox mark as gospel.

[James5]

French tolerances. Never take the tdc gearbox mark as gospel.

Cheers Mart

[Chris Hebden]

Is the only true way to look at the cam and crank pulley then and make sure those marks are lined up?

[Mart]

Is the only true way to look at the cam and crank pulley then and make sure those marks are lined up?

That won't tell you tdc, and even worse if someone's accidentally fitted the cam a tooth out.

Best/most accurate way is a dti gauge on piston no.1

[Chris Hebden]

That won't tell you tdc, and even worse if someone's accidentally fitted the cam a tooth out.

Best/most accurate way is a dti gauge on piston no.1

, sorry i have no idea what i was going on about.......................................

[Sparkie]

if you have a performance cam fitted, the dizzy timing gear will not line up the same way it does when running the standard cam.
you may have to turn the dizzy 180deg and use the clamp to stop it turning. - you can then tweak the dizzy so that the peg inside the dizzy cap is directly over the centre of the rotor arm contact at 0deg TDC.

the reason why your car is doing this is that as you rev the car, the spark advances. if your dizzy is slightly out, then the spark advances and eventually it has to jump a large gap inside the dizzy cap. - you can clearly see this by looking for oxidation on the edge of the dizzy cap peg.

[Chris Hebden]

if you have a performance cam fitted, the dizzy timing gear will not line up the same way it does when running the standard cam.
you may have to turn the dizzy 180deg and use the clamp to stop it turning. - you can then tweak the dizzy so that the peg inside the dizzy cap is directly over the centre of the rotor arm contact at 0deg TDC.

the reason why your car is doing this is that as you rev the car, the spark advances. if your dizzy is slightly out, then the spark advances and eventually it has to jump a large gap inside the dizzy cap. - you can clearly see this by looking for oxidation on the edge of the dizzy cap peg.

IS there anyway of checking this without a timing light? I have hesitation on boost and always thought it was a ACC or 1st stage issue, but i know when i first put the engine back together i burnt out a cap and rotar arm within a couple of hundred miles! Well an edge of the rotar arm and the cap had lots of oxidation on every peg

[Sparkie]

just get the notch on the 0deg mark on the flywheel. get the dizzy mesh gear as close to pointing foward to the front of the car as possible. put the dizzy on 180deg out , without the cap on. you will notice if you rotate the dizzy body the rotor arm stays in position. by placing the cap on the dizzy body then taking it off again, use your eyes and see if the peg is slap bang in the middle of the rotor arm brass connection. mark the peg position on the outside of the cap if you have to. when you have rotated the dizzy body so that they are aligned, then tighten the clamp.

this problem is usually worsened if you have done the timing sensor wire swap, as it advances the spark 4deg throughout the whole rev/ boost range.

this is why the rotor tip is so large compared to the dizzy cap pegs, cos it has to account for the timing advance/retard. so it needs more surface area for the spark to jump from the rotor to the peg.

[Chris Hebden]

I'll give that a try! Thanks very much

[Spooky]

ive got a spare dizzy drive gear if yours is 'suspect'

[Alastair]

just get the notch on the 0deg mark on the flywheel. get the dizzy mesh gear as close to pointing foward to the front of the car as possible. put the dizzy on 180deg out , without the cap on. you will notice if you rotate the dizzy body the rotor arm stays in position. by placing the cap on the dizzy body then taking it off again, use your eyes and see if the peg is slap bang in the middle of the rotor arm brass connection. mark the peg position on the outside of the cap if you have to. when you have rotated the dizzy body so that they are aligned, then tighten the clamp.

this problem is usually worsened if you have done the timing sensor wire swap, as it advances the spark 4deg throughout the whole rev/ boost range.

this is why the rotor tip is so large compared to the dizzy cap pegs, cos it has to account for the timing advance/retard. so it needs more surface area for the spark to jump from the rotor to the peg.

[James5]

Sorry still having fe king problems, here goes just taken the 5 for a quick spin and am still having the hesitation problem as soon as I put my foot down all is good until I hit 3500ish rpm and then it sounds like it's chugging and it doesn't go. I have had number 1 piston at tdc (highest point of it's stroke as per my pic in the 1st post of this thread) the arm at this point was pointing to the number 1 on the dizzy cap position.

Anyone local fancy a fiddle / having a look any further advice?

[Spooky]

James, it may be carb related as I suffered similar symptoms.

Is the carb 100% 'A' ok?

[Tony Walker]

does it happen as soon as you come on boost? if so then maybe you have a high resistance in the ignition circuit somewhere. might of damaged a lead when taking it apart putting it back together, make sure ur king lead is connected properely. sometimes the rubber slides on and the metal connector inside doesn't.

[James5]

James, it may be carb related as I suffered similar symptoms.

Is the carb 100% 'A' ok?

The carb was rebuilt just before I took the engine apart first time around Which it ran perfect. Engine came apart first time due to a cracked liner and I then had these symptoms once back together again to which I put a new fuel pump on. Engine came apart again 500 miles later due to a glazed liner and oil blowing out of breather system. Engine wasn't chugging before I cracked the liner (first time engine came apart). I have checked checked valve clearance to which all is ok. I have even put a new fuel pump on aswell still made no difference so annoying as the car feels and sounds so good until this happens.

Have I set the dizzy gear correct as per the above pics on the 1st post of this thread?
I will check carb out to make sure it is good.

[James5]

does it happen as soon as you come on boost? if so then maybe you have a high resistance in the ignition circuit somewhere. might of damaged a lead when taking it apart putting it back together, make sure ur king lead is connected properely. sometimes the rubber slides on and the metal connector inside doesn't.

Still running a t2 so am on boost when this happens in the rpm range?

[James5]

Look at the attached pic does the piston look at tdc?
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...6&d=1264202515

[TrixNFlix]

Look at the attached pic does the piston look at tdc?
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...6&d=1264202515

Yeah by the naked eye it looks to be at the top, have you used a dti gauge to be sure?

[James5]

Yeah by the naked eye it looks to be at the top, have you used a dti gauge to be sure?

No unfortunatly I don't have one to use

I defo don't think it's timing anymore must be fuel or HT related as I know the dizzy gear is now spot on

[TrixNFlix]

No unfortunatly I don't have one to use

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ENGINEERING-QU...#ht_8288wt_992

Or I could post mind to ya, but after the cost of postage you may as well bought your own

[Jimmy_GTT]

French tolerances. Never take the tdc gearbox mark as gospel.

But on an assembled engine how can you find the TDC for sure? (If you do not want to take the head off)

[Karlos]

French tolerances. Never take the tdc gearbox mark as gospel.

*lol* may as well refer to the lines on the back window.

[James5]

Well had a bit of success tonight after the car breaking down thankfully just outside halfords in Horsham I managed to limp the car to there car park to where I purchased a new dizzy and rotor arm and I also fully stripped down and cleaned the carb up to which after doing all the above the car behaved alot better going to strip carb again and clean again as it hesitates occasionally in 4th gear.

Many thanks for all advices looks like i set dizzy gear to tdc fine

[Spooky]

Try another fpr too

[James5]

Try another fpr too

[Spooky]

Its probably one of the most overlooked parts when it comes to tuning the C1J...unless of course you use an adjustable one

James, I've got one

[TrixNFlix]

Its probably one of the most overlooked parts when it comes to tuning the C1J...unless of course you use an adjustable one

James, I've got one

Spooky to the rescue again!

[Jimmy_GTT]

James,

what you have written is absolutely right.
That's what I have found in the Haynes:


So the mark on the flywheel should be between the 0 and 6 marks @TDC.
The 0 mark is for adjusting the static ignition on the conventional ignition systems.

[Jimmy_GTT]

Setting the distributor drivegear:

[Jimmy_GTT]

I have checked my ignition timing @idle (700rpm) with a timing lamp. It is 9 degrees. (vacuum pipe disconnected).
I think it is right. Haynes has written 8 deg.
Has anyone else also measured it?

[James5]

James, it may be carb related as I suffered similar symptoms.

Is the carb 100% 'A' ok?

I used the car a couple of nights ago and the car starting jurking all over the place, thankfully I was near a Halfrauds so I pulled up and decided to go in to Halfrauds and get some bits (carb cleaner, new dizzy and new rota arm also replaced the sparkies with some new Campus jobbies), I fully stripped the carb down and cleaned it up (the carb has a new gasket set on only about 2 months old) and put the car back together to which the car seemed to drive alot better especially if you gradually increase the throttle through the rev range there is no hesitation but if you give it hard throttle say from 3rd gear it chugs and splutters this is now looking like a fuel related problem. I have replaced the fuel pump, I have picked up a new fuel filter to put on and have got another FPR to try out. Also going to check sender unit

[shaggy]

I used the car a couple of nights ago and the car starting jurking all over the place, thankfully I was near a Halfrauds so I pulled up and decided to go in to Halfrauds and get some bits (carb cleaner, new dizzy and new rota arm also replaced the sparkies with some new Campus jobbies), I fully stripped the carb down and cleaned it up (the carb has a new gasket set on only about 2 months old) and put the car back together to which the car seemed to drive alot better especially if you gradually increase the throttle through the rev range there is no hesitation but if you give it hard throttle say from 3rd gear it chugs and splutters this is now looking like a fuel related problem. I have replaced the fuel pump, I have picked up a new fuel filter to put on and have got another FPR to try out.

I was going to say change the fuel filter....mite help

[James5]

Feck me I am frozen just got in from playing outside with the 5
New fpr fitted,
New fuel filter fitted,
Carb fully stripped and cleaned,
noticed whilst under cae fuel pipe from sender to fuel pump had a small leak pipe removed need to pick up a 10mm id pipe as the 8mm Id pipe I had as a spare won't fit my pump.

[James5]

Well been out for a spin in the 5 tonight nice trip to Jrps gaff for a mini meet. Still got the problem even though majority of fuel parts replaced going to check the enrichment jets on the carb and gaskets also going to see if fuel sender is blocked in anyway.

[Mart]

James,

what you have written is absolutely right.
That's what I have found in the Haynes:


So the mark on the flywheel should be between the 0 and 6 marks @TDC.
The 0 mark is for adjusting the static ignition on the conventional ignition systems.

*sigh*

[James5]

Ok this is defo carb related now, used the car to and from work today and stripped the carb down and cleaned it up on my lunchbreak to which it made a bit of a difference but still got the problem I have tried to drive through it but still doing it.

Anyone got a spare known working carb I can try out

[TrixNFlix]

Ok this is defo carb related now, used the car to and from work today and stripped the carb down and cleaned it up on my lunchbreak to which it made a bit of a difference but still got the problem I have tried to drive through it but still doing it.

Anyone got a spare known working carb I can try out

Come on spooky, where are you?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

Ok this is defo carb related now, used the car to and from work today and stripped the carb down and cleaned it up on my lunchbreak to which it made a bit of a difference but still got the problem I have tried to drive through it but still doing it.

Anyone got a spare known working carb I can try out

I got working carb here mate, my campus is sat doing nothing at moment so could try that on it (its standard). Only thing is the trip down here, can't remember how far it is from mine to yours

[James5]

I got working carb here mate, my campus is sat doing nothing at moment so could try that on it (its standard). Only thing is the trip down here, can't remember how far it is from mine to yours

about 2hrs + dependant on traffic I am further south now takes me an hour to get to JRPs gaff

[Markey Mark (BD)]

about 2hrs + dependant on traffic I am further south now takes me an hour to get to JRPs gaff

Ah, didn't realise you moved further south mate

[James5]

Ah, didn't realise you moved further south mate

I am 10-15 mins from Brighton now

[Markey Mark (BD)]

I am 10-15 mins from Brighton now

Yeah about 2hrs away then

[Tony Walker]

Perhaps an aei fault if your timing isnt being adjusted correctly? easy enough to swap for someone elses to test. check theres no split in your vacuum pipe to and from aei, especially if theres a DV t'd in to it or something, split dv diaphragm could mess things up if its t'd in to the aei line.