Originally Posted by clee
Dropped the flywheel off down Leicester for machining and get home to find this on the doorstep
Shown next to std GTA
Attachment 6841
That should do it
Dropped the flywheel off down Leicester for machining and get home to find this on the doorstep
Shown next to std GTA
Attachment 6841
That should do it
Cool project like the engine buildgood stuff
Cheers Dave
Big boy fitted and adjustable 1:1 fuel reg .
Just need to chase up the skimming of the fly and it's back in .Martin has organised a RR day on the 6th for some testing .A few Alp lads are turning up to play so I hope to impress
Finally got the fly back after skimming .The fly retaining bolts are a bit tight for clearance relative to the new paddle .The spring retaining plate is pressed and the upstands only narrowly miss .Rebate the heads 1.5mm with a full rad so no stress raisers and grind off the offending edges that " might " foul when worn a bit .
Hopefully all back together by Monday then I can release some others and get some space back .
..... cut and weld Big Jim downpipe .
The new turbo turbine housing's sits higher than a Garrett .63 so the silencer hits the rocker cover now
All chopped and tacked ,should be done tomorrow then just waiting on a date for mapping next week .
Sorted innit
I'm debating where to cut it off but I kinda like it as it is
Also decided on the charge cooler rad setup .Will put the big rad in the bonnet and plumb it in series with the now redundant heater matrix . Fan to cool but I could
put a scoop in the bonnet if it needed it . Bonus is I will now have some heat back in the cabin for the colder days
I'd cut that back fella, I might need to take a leak at national day after a few scoops, and looking around for a likely receptor.
That's why I'm gonna fit one of these
That's why I'm gonna fit one of these
very cool!!!
yeah id cut it back on an angle...slash cut stylee ftw!!!
Aiiii ....OCC Baloney Cut FTW
But before that
Mr Scoff ! Mr Clee will see you now
big kid
we'll see what we can do one day next week lee.
Lol
ha-ha+ idiot... must be the tea, just realised it's your number plate! Does kinda look like some BBQ warning thingy... must remember eat more veggies...
Charge cooler in and plumbed , not 100% exactly where it will end up so just lightly secured for now until I decide where and what bonnet scooping . Heat shielding done .Big turbo and injectors in with new plugs and all ready for tune
Not sure about the pipe , it might just get cut off @ 90.
Issues today when mapping ...
The waste gate is not big enough
I need to make up a spacer plate to give the penny arm somewhere to go that doesn't then restrict the divorced pipe :roll:
Mapped it up to about 20 psi but it just kept creeping and showed no sign of stopping ,hitting nearly 2 bar
It needs the hole opening up on the turbine housing and a flow path creating in the spacer around the penny arm .Either that or I will have to put a remote wastegate unit on .This will mean putting an adapter block between the collector and the turbine housing and all new oil pipework etc .
Clutch is also an issue .It will work but only just and gets worse the hotter it gets .Need to get aout another 3 mil movement I think so will try and space the slave off a tad to give it this .Quick and easy job ,if it works ,if not it's all out and space the thrust bearing .
Other than that all seems good .The charge cooler setup seems to be doing the job and the main rad ducting has brought the temps way down and does it very quickly once back on the move .
Big thanks again to Scoff for his time and expertiseNuff said
It's getting there Lee. Can't wait to see what the engine is capable of.
Spaced out slave .Will just have to see if it's any better .If not , sleeve the slave to get more actuation .
Just need to get the turbo machined and if that stops the creep I might just make Mallory for some light track action
Machined out the wastegate areas .Need to finish off with grindage .
I'm not 100% that it will cure the problem , will have to see .
A couple of other ideas ...restrict the movement on the arm so that it does not enter the pipe on big booooost so much
or just bin the whole divorced wastegate pipe idea and open it back up to the main downpipe to vent .
I think you will need that spacer as well lee. If we are making it creep at only 'low' power then it'll have even more of a job to keep boost in check at higher power.
I think I've confused the issue thinking about a spacer .The penny arm is fully contained within the housing so the only way to open up the path is to allow it to swing back a full 90 degrees and effectively " come out " of the wastegate housing but that would be stretching the actuator beyond all reason .This is where a spacer plate would come into it .
I think the best option would be to restrict the arms movement so that it does not then obstruct the exit . A blob of weld would suffice behind the arm ? Paul B and I were having a closer look at it last night and he was opting to go back to a std discharge
I've just got a new 34 actuator as well as the old one was well fecked
Put a spacer in and mill out the whole cavity behind the penny? Looks like the most likely solution. Have you been able to increase the port through the scroll? Can also blend this in and around, normally this just has a sharp edge, radius in nicely. Looks like you have given a nice edge for gasses going past than diverting off
[quote=clee;170275.The penny arm is fully contained within the housing so the only way to open up the path is to allow it to swing back a full 90 degrees and effectively " come out " of the wastegate housing but that would be stretching the actuator beyond all reason .[/quote]
If you add a thick spacer plate behind the actuator arm side, you can then open out the complete divorced cavity behind it (in the old cast housing), so the gas doesn't need to turn back behind the penny again. It needs to pass it's edge, but can slow in the increased cavity space. Remove all the material behind the penny to the sealing edge of your flange and the inserted section of tube closing off the main path i.e. a big hole. Then your thick spacer plate "drilling" will collect from this entire area and cone back to the diameter of your divorced pipe. You should be able to do that in 3/4 to 1 inch without too much drama - just lots of grinding to get the shape.
The penny will still be in the flow path, but be sufficient area for the gas to expand around it. I think it should work.
The other option would be to cut some of your divorce insert out, so some gas could return via the original route, not ideal I agree.
The standard T3 discharge is a horrible thing, please don't refit that
Re the blob of weld business, it's academic because if the actuator is trying to push that far it means we have more boost in the manifold than the actuator wants to see. In other words if the penny gets as far as its mechanical restriction then we will see creep thereafter - problem not solved.
A spacer is the guaranteed fix even if it's only 10mm or so. Just opening the wastegate port will mean the peny isn't having to move as far off the seat though, so actually it may suffice as it is. Suck it and see ! It might let us get some kind of tune on it for now.
I'm sucking it and the clutch tomorrow ,will let you know
Have scanned in a gasket ( with wastegate hole
It's still creeping so I've now put zero preload on the new actuator and am off to test on a RR tomorrow .That way I can see what the arm is doing .......On half a hole it kept rising with no stall , on a quarter it will hold a little then rise .....The new actuator starts to move at 17psi .
I can't get enough clear road round these parts at the minute and trying to get out of town is a nightmare due to roadworksso the RR will at least mean I can get some decent testing done ..
Clutch seems a bit better but still not good for fast shifting so that is going to require some more development .Increase the master bore seems favorite .
Basic low boost runs .The creep will not go away so it's either rework the wastegate and put a spacer in or go external .
Only ran it up to 5.5k and about 1 bar .This at least will give us a starting point .
Hi Lee, ... yes I'm doing a WAD
Going back to these two things:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=15938
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=17386
comp 76.3/50.6 44
turbine 65.25/56 73
I'm not convinced that arrangement is well balanced anyway, and may be struggling because of that?? The late torque build is due to spool, fair enough with the size of turbine and the energy required to get it going, but once up and running that turbine is generating so much torque to drive that compressor we are out stripping demand in lower revs to the point the waste gate needs almost to pull most of the energy past the turbine... need some input from the turbo experts on here.. past my zone
Yes please ,Turbo experts
Go back to the Pod turbo ? I think so
Getting a 3/4" spacer made as we speak .If that does not do the trick then back to the 60 trim one from POD and see how we go
As long as lag is acceptable then the fact the new turbo needs a bigger wastegate is a good sign. It isn't asking for as much energy and so the gate is now struggling to get rid of the excess. Don't go backwards by fitting the old turbo.
have you looked how far open the valve is at the boost you're seeing? A softer actuator spring might allow it to open more.
Yes that was the main reason I put it on the rr .
The new actuator is holding 1 bar ,no pre load ,then swings open about right by the looks .
The old one I took off starts to move at 8psi but I was getting more creep on that but that was before I opened things up .
I will get this spacer and then post up a few pics of the wastegate ,downpipe and see what/where to remove material .
...or we go twin turbo... now
may as well, the show season is almost over...or we go twin turbo... now
Lots of grinding to do .
I can get a huge lump out from around the arm .And open up the hole in the downpipe to the bore of the pipe as it's way off to one side .This should all give me 100% more discharge area
how much pressure do you have to put into the actuator to get it that far open?
Too much
I've opened things up a lot now so if this doesn't cure it then I'm going to have to look at an external setup or different turbo .Not sure I need the spacer ...I have the hole in the downpipe divorce pipe flange opened right out to the pipe bore so can do no more .
that's where a softer actuator/reduced preload and a boost controller might help (I think your ECU does this anyway if you have the solenoid fitted)Too much
Will have to see if this doesn't work .I must have 100% more volume around the arm and no step to pipe now .
Martin was thinking about using a twin port actuator to get more travel ? Failing that then we could look at some ECU boost control but I'd rather KISS
looking good
Still creeping but better .I just can't get rid of enough gas
I'm going to plonk the weak actuator on .It starts to open at 7 and is maxed out at 22 moving 15mm .The new one starts at 15 and was 15mm at 30 psi which is the most my hand pump will go .
It's a testiment to the engine, just an annoying one
Maybe a 44mm external is in order. I don't mind coming down to do the fab if you can get hold of a gate and source the stainless etc. You'd need to borrow a mig too, my stuff is a bit big to cart around.
Thanks Chris .
I think the whole divorced pipe idea has reached it's limits .Are we talking the same setup you suggested last time out ? Put an adapter between the collector and housing ?
Just need to get some bits together .I can't find any takeoff adapters that big ?? 35 seems to be the largest .
Is there no space in that Y pipe to take a pipe off at 45° to the wastegate ? We can weld into cast if we have to.
Thanks Chris .
I think the whole divorced pipe idea has reached it's limits .Are we talking the same setup you suggested last time out ? Put an adapter between the collector and housing ?
Just need to get some bits together .I can't find any takeoff adapters that big ?? 35 seems to be the largest .
what's your target boost?Still creeping but better .I just can't get rid of enough gas
I'm going to plonk the weak actuator on .It starts to open at 7 and is maxed out at 22 moving 15mm .The new one starts at 15 and was 15mm at 30 psi which is the most my hand pump will go .
Y pipe ?
Y pipe, connecting the branches from each bank, before turbine inlet.
No room in the collector .They join like so and besides the bulkhead is in the way .
Target boost is mid 20's , though we want to see just how far it can be pushed . I want it for track not Pod primarily .
On my old setup(gta) I had an external wastegate pipe comeing off the exhaust houseing.and it worked perfect
ok, so at 22psi (ignoring the backpressure blowing the wastegate open) you'll go from being 7mm open to 15mm open. That ought to make a difference.....
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