2009 Speed season starts

[RussellT]

OK 2009 is off and running 3 Sisters easter Sat and Harewood on the Sunday. Jono broke his duck at the first meeting. I gave him a quick walk around the track some ideas on what lines to take and the young monkey rather than stuff her into the nearest tyre wall (which I felt was a definite possibility) went quicker all day ending with a low 55 sec run. I eventually won the class after a titanic struggle with 2 Clio cup 172 cars (they beat me last year) with my final run of 52.68. Considering Jono didnt know what he was doing, the very tricky track, lack of a diff and duff tyres he easily wins driver of the day.

Next day at Harewood I beat my best time of last year easily but came out 5th with 69.24 to the winners 67.22 (new record) but I think I was the first "usable" road car.

Lots of debate re class rules and will see how that pans out over the year. I hope to go quicker yet as my new tyres scrub in and we fiddle more with the suspension.

Tony Hart of primma Racing was running stunning times in his stripped out 5 but had a few mechanical issues.

Next event back at Harewood for the 9th May

All part of the fun.

[Alex]

Good stuff Russ. I might (if I ever get my car finished!) have a go at sprint racing/hill climbs myself as I've always wanted to do it.

Sounds like Jono did very well indeed considering his times compared to yours.

Have you got a list of forthcoming events?

[*Yellow*]

Well done Russ, good start to the season.

Good luck for the 9th, also out that day as well at Brands.... lets hope for a good day for the 5`s.

[olidaviesuk]

Great result mate, Good luck on the 9th!! What else runs in your class bar the Clio's?

[RussellT]

here is a link to the Championship calender I hope to do all the Harewood and 3 Sister rounds plus Barbon Loton and Anglesey at the end of the year.

http://www.longton-dmc.co.uk/wp-cont.../03/dates2.pdf

Re other cars we have a venrable Capri, a Pug 206 with a Longman engine (brand new and not up to full speed yet ) 205 1.9's

I need to work on my front end grip

http://homepage.mac.com/tony_online/.../thumb-174.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

improve the front, or stiffen the rear 'bar'?

[R5GTTRaider]

commit to the corner mor eairler?, stiffer arb on the back would force roll in the front, or try a little softer on the front, is there no specs on what cup cars used?

[olidaviesuk]

A complete circuit setup might not be too desirable on a sprint car, as the cup setup is slightly tail happy and prone to snap oversteer if you push too hard! depends on how you like your handling though...

If I was sprinting id prefer something with a little more forgiving than the cup rear end.. although the caster mod might be benificial as well as lowering and stiffening up the front end, the camber mod might reduce your front end grip off the line quite substantially as you are reducing the tyre contact patch.. I seem to remember when I sprinted that quite a big part of getting a good time depended on how quick you got off the line.. sure some of the other guys who sprint on here might be able to suggest a direction to go...

is there no specs on what cup cars used?

[RussellT]

As usual a very perceptive point Andy. I think you can see for the photo that the rear is pretty stiff and planted. She runs on the bump stops. Soften the front is a thought as I had her on 3 clicks off full stiff on the Ledas and she is on 270 lf/ft springs. But I do set quicker times with that setting in the dry.

However they were practicaly brand new tyres and they need scrubbing in also I could do with some more neg camber at the front just had it checked today and it was -0.5 deg on the nearside -1.5 deg on the offside which could explain my issues with right handers.

She also had quite a lot of toe in which has been reduced today to 2mm.

My rear shocks are pretty old now and prob could do with being replaced.

This is the real art of motorsport and is in my opinion worth more than an extra 50bhp

[Andrew Cooke]

whilst you're playing with the geometry wind the caster on if you haven't already, I don't think you can have too much. That lack of camber on the left won't have helped..

[olidaviesuk]

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...pcode=MISGRIP1


This will help, though might be totally illegal in your championship.. Seems like my last response was a bit simple as you're already quite a way advanced: apologies..


Also filling the tyres with nitrogen rather than air and setting the psi to whatever it is at your optimum temp..

[Andrew Cooke]

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...pcode=MISGRIP1


This will help, though might be totally illegal in your championship.. Seems like my last response was a bit simple as you're already quite a way advanced: apologies..


Also filling the tyres with nitrogen rather than air and setting the psi to whatever it is at your optimum temp..

correct, it's banned.

The problem with nitrogen is you need to carry a bottle to the track, I don't know about Russell, but I tend to bleed about 3psi out during the day as the temperatures come up, then top it up again in the evening.

[Andrew Cooke]

commit to the corner mor eairler?, stiffer arb on the back would force roll in the front, or try a little softer on the front, is there no specs on what cup cars used?

mine looked worse than this on cup suspension - understeer city

[RussellT]

re tyre pressures I set them at the start of the day and then check them just before each run often having to let some out as they heat up.

[Jono]

Hi Guys,

I missed this thread , and I have been away in Saudi the last week with no access to the internet ( how did i survive!)

I had a great day at Three Sisters , weather was fantastic. I have to admit to being a little nervous which was replaced by sheer terror and wheel spin when the light turned green, followed by 55 seconds of "dont crash , dont crash, dont crash" .
I may "only" be 2 seconds behind but its a very short circuit so I have a lot of improving todo yet. The 5 too, far too much roll and awfull inital bite from the brakes. Hopefully some better pads will help this. The engine seemed strong with only 250 miles on the clock and only 14psi of boost. ( even though RT doesnt believe me ) So their should be more to come when I get a few more miles done, the boost turned up and the fueling setup.

So to sum up, a great day, I didnt crash, I didnt break the 5 and I didnt come last! Result!

[stuTHC]

Ill try to get along to Harewood for a look see, so hopefully see you there Russ
Good work Jono, sounds like you enjoyed your first run out Look forwards to looking around your car and meeting you if i make it to Harewood on the 9th.

[Jono]

Harewood on the 9th ? That one is not on Longton and Districts calender?

http://www.longton-dmc.co.uk/wp-cont.../03/dates2.pdf

[RussellT]

Im doing the Harewood Champ as well as LDMC Jono.

[RussellT]

OK latest round of the Harewood Championship last Sat and Im still 6th in class but only 1.43 sec off the winner. The sector times are very interesting.

see the track map the "S" marks the sector timing points and there is a new one just before the Esses.
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...iles/HWood.gif


Start to 64 feet Im second quickest in class by 0.02 of a sec. with 2.73
64 feet the the esses Im 4th quickest with 9.88 to a best of 9.73
Esses to Country Im equal quickest 14.15 sec
Country to Orchard Im 0.35 sec slower than the class lead at 14.53
Orchard to Farmhouse exit Im another 0.43 behind the leader at 16.32
Then I do the run to the finish in 11.73 to the class leads 11.25

So start & sector 3 Im right on it (which shows that Doris has the power and I can get her round twiddly bits) but sector 4 5 & 6 are the problem and sector 4 is just a fast left and a fast right then up the hill.

More suspension tweaking on the cards.

[RussellT]

Update

Latest Harewood round was a wet dry affair with a reduced field leading to 6 runs on the day.

Doris and I managed a distant 4th with a time over 70 seconds which was a tad dissapointing with new rear dampers and a fettled cold air feed to the air intake.

I tried some different gears using 3rd for Country Willow Farmhouse and the final part of Quarry. This worked well in the wet and at one time I was third but in the dry she started to jump out of gear as I braked and it was quicker in 2nd.

For the last run I went back to plan A and was on what felt like a good run until she cough and spluttered coming out of Farmhouse probably due to sucking air not petrol out of the tank. I have a aux tank pump overide switch and its going to stay on for all runs from now on.

All in all a great day out there were electric Karts for under 8's and a free digital scalectric set that was amazing with the ability to change lanes and pit stops. Great fun.

I have plans to move forward. link to a photo

http://homepage.mac.com/tony_online/...icture-138.jpg

[RussellT]

Barbon this weekend was looking good up to the last timed run. I was in the lead with a 30.24 when a young lad in a Toyota Starlet Glanza with 250bhp on tap destroyed my time with a 29.59. Still I beat the Longman prepared Pug 206 for a cool second place.

Things are definitely looking up, I have some new shorter softer springs (200lb/") for the front which will lower the front and I hope give more front end grip.

As things stand I am actually 6th overall in the Harewood championship but that is due to me having done more rounds than some of the quick guys but it looks good on paper at the moment.

[RussellT]

OK since the last event in the effort to get more front end grip and to cope better with the uneven roads around Blackpool I ordered some softer shorter springs.

Putting them on made no differece to the ride height and my pit crew pointed out that the reason why she was so hard and high at the front was that she was sat on the bump stops.

This explains the heavy steering, understeer and poor braking. I cut the bump stops down and lifted the spring platforms but the car just setlled back down on to them the shorter softer springs making the situation worse and they were approaching being coil bound. The lower nose helped a bit.

The solution will be to make yet another set of top mounts which if you count the original set will be my 5th pair!

In addition one of the wishbone bushes was ripped to shreds.

At least we seem to have made an acurate diagnosis which is a major step forward.

Anyway at the event I was running third for a while and finished 4th about 1/2 a second slower than the touring car which I think isnt bad for a car with less suspension then Ben Hur's chariot! I did have a problem with the final corner which is a very fast 4th gear uphill right hander and I slid off onto the grass, the rear slid out hit the tyre wall and bounced me back on line for the finish. I lost the rear wheel arch trim and was very lucky not to wipe her out completely

Some great photos of the day here

http://www.creative-portraits.co.uk/

[c7borg]

enjoying the thread.. what's the name of the series you're competing in?.. I'll hopefully be doing a couple of sprints toward the end of the year Thorsby (two day event) and Curborough but would like to get to three sisters next year

[Chris Hebden]

Really enjoying the thread mate, good luck with the series!

[RussellT]

This year I have entered the Longton and District Motor Club Northern Speed Championship and the Harewood Hill Climb Championship.

Next event is the 1st and 2nd August at Harewood. Click the link for a taster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zu4Wn2le4

[RussellT]

Right having discovered that Doris was sat on the rubber bump stops of the front dampers. Major issue and no wonder I was understeering in the fast corners. Yet another set of top mounts made (5th!) back on the 350 lb/" springs. As a biproduct the sterring is much easier too.

Also the reason my brakes wernt working which I discovered having moaned about them all year to the pit crew, was that at the front one of the pads had become wedged at an angle to the disc, simply changing the pads and making sure they were free to move sorted the problem.

So off to Harewood 2 day event. Sat very wet we had a Renault Gordini in class turbocharged on DIY EFI using megasquirt ECU and Clio inlet plenum BMW fuel rail. A guy called Ian Bennett had done all the work himself not a member of RTOC but definitely should be. Anyway a very dificult day saw me win!! just thanks to getting the best of the weather.

Sunday all the very quick guys turned up from Midland speed and a lad in a super quick Honda S2000 tied with the resident class record holding car on 67.47. I was best of the rest in about 6th on a 69.50. I am sure that I am running out of fuel during the run so I will be checking fuel pump filter etc. I have an idea for a purge tank in the fuel line before the carb anyone done that? any way watch this space.

Next event 3 Sisters Sat.

[Woznaldo]

Top work Russ, good to hear you've got on top of your handling issues.

Do you run a wideband O2 sensor that can log the run? It might show when you're going lean?

[RussellT]

I have a wide band sensor and I could log it but you need to conect it to a laptop which you could secure to the car but a bit of a pig. I find the easiest way is to film it with my video. Yesterday I just snuck a glance at it as I entered the final uphill straight and she was in the 14's rather than the 12's.

[Andrew Cooke]

I was going to say that I've never had a problem with fuel pickup, but then I remembered that I've always used a custom tank with a collector. Just as well I didn't say anything as it wouldn't have been very helpful.

[Andrew Cooke]

btw, did you know that the aux tank was used as a collector on the cup cars?

[RussellT]

so they had the fuel sender in the aux tank. I will have to ask Tony Hart about that one thanks Andy. By the way do you reckon a 2mm needle valve in the float chamber would be a good idea and what do you think of my idea of a purge tank?

[Andrew Cooke]

so they had the fuel sender in the aux tank. I will have to ask Tony Hart about that one thanks Andy. By the way do you reckon a 2mm needle valve in the float chamber would be a good idea and what do you think of my idea of a purge tank?

no, pumped from the main tank into the aux tank, and collected from there. There is a diagram in the cup manual. You won't need to degas with the collector, in fact gas isn't your problem, lack of fuel is the problem - air will soon find it's way out.
2mm needle valve is good if you're going lean due to floatchamber emptying. Keep the original one in your toolkit just in case - if you have a problem you'll know because the engine will cut out for about 1 second when you change gear.

[RussellT]

thanks your a star

[RussellT]

OK this weekend didnt go so well, I had a 2mm needle valve in the float chamber and was hoping for good times.

Well I tried my best pushed as hard as I could but I was over 4 seconds off my best time. One of my new top mounts was unscrewing the nut that held the damper in place and the off side wheel bearing was wobbly. Worse than both those 2 though was a missfire on acceleration that appeared on my second time run as I left the start and was so bad I had to fiddle with the boost control as I was going around.

I was going to do today as well but there was no point and I spent some time looking at the air feed to the boost controller that seemed to be leaking which is a very good way to blow the engine (it also feeds the map sensor for the ECU) and shag the turbo. It looks like the missfire was due to a loose plug lead and all my own fault.

I cleaned the plugs for the event and with my new intercooler and radiator 2 are a B to get at. I didnt get the lead on one so when the engine was on load it missfired. THe engine movement on the first 3 runs prob moved it further away from the plug top.

A worse fate befell Tony Hart of Prima Racing he unfortunately rolled his pristine R5 race car and he was leading his class by miles. The car has so much lateral grip that he rolled it sideways entering a tight corner. He went up a bank and back down again right onto its nose. The shell is FUBAR so he needs a replacement. Come on RTOC Tony needs you

OK Loton in 2 weeks to get those niggles sorted and have another go!

[*Yellow*]

Unlucky Russ, been one thing after another lately.

It will all come good soon, and like you say its not as bad as the Prima 5 getting wrecked, shame as a lovely car.

Good luck for the next one, I`m at Snetterton that weekend so lets hope for a good weekend for the 5`s.

Dave

[RussellT]

Kicking myself as I should have had a second place and 100 points in the champ . I did try the HT leads but I have a red hot water pipe infront of 3 & 4 and it was lead 3 right by the distributer. I have magnicor leads and they are hard to get on and off. never mind with the suspension unscrewing it might have saved me from a crash!

[Jono]

Well Russell your problems were my gain!

I bagged 4th on Sunday, out of a field of 10 which would of no doubt been 5th had you attended!
It seems to have been a weekend of Renault woes though, mine ran faultless all day, until the 5th run I did my best time but on returning to the paddock noticed I was now only running on 3. Popped the offending pistons plug out and it still sparks away , it also becomes less pronounced at higher engine speeds so im thinking it could be the exhaust valve not sealing. Not had chance to do a compression test yet though. I did quickly pop the rocker cover off to see if it had thrown or bent a pushrod but it wasnt.

Still a great ( very hot!) day!

[RussellT]

And what Jono hasnt mentioned lads and lasses in RTOC land is that in coming 4th Jono picked up his first trophy which means that after just 2 events he is now an official expert! as opposed to novice.

That took me years to acieve

[Andrew Cooke]

do you think there are more 5s racing now than 5 years ago, or are there just more in this club?

[Hoolio]

A worse fate befell Tony Hart of Prima Racing he unfortunately rolled his pristine R5 race car and he was leading his class by miles. The car has so much lateral grip that he rolled it sideways entering a tight corner. He went up a bank and back down again right onto its nose. The shell is FUBAR so he needs a replacement. Come on RTOC Tony needs you

Apparently pretty bad this, it's prompted one of the guys who was racing his Trophy there to start thinking about a cage for next season.

[Jono]

The miss fire saga....


https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=6078

[RussellT]

Another class win at Loton Park yesterday.

With the 6th version of my top mounts I had steering suspension and grip! The car feels so much better I didnt really do her justice with a time 1/10th off last years best but its a really tricky hill and only going there once a year it takes a few runs to reaquaint yourself with the corners and where to brake at the top of the hill.

This year there was only 3 dry runs so I was quite pleased to be close to last year but I would have liked to have beaten it. When it looks like rain you cant aford to mess up your first run.

I ran 66.10 which compares rather poorly to the 63 second runs being done by the Midland Speed lads the day before but they wernt there on the Sunday and a win is a win . The next fastest car Rob in a Clio made a mess of his first run so it looks like a maximmum score aswell.

Next event Harewood on Sunday

[RussellT]

Back from Harewood with a mixed bag of news. On the one hand I was 2 seconds behind the class winning time, which was a stonking new record of 66.92, but on the other Doris went really well. I had replaced one HT lead mainly because the new one was a complete B to get ion and off I couldnt be sure it was on right. Also the new 2mm needle valve in the float chamber made a massive difference. I had full power all the way up the hill.

Although the weather looked like rain all day it held off until the competition runs were almost finished. I upped the boost for my last run and I broke 69 seconsds for only the 3rd time. 68.99!

The journey home was a mare in heavy rain. This morning the fan belt was slipping and when I looked at it all 3 bolts that hold the alternator bracket to the blook had gone AWOL! How I didnt loose the belt I dont know what a disaster that would have been.

A job for the pit crew tomorrow, (I found one bolt in my garage that fitted and a bit of horizontal mechanicing saw it in place, that will hold her till they can sort it out)

I was actually 4th in the Harewood championship but mainly due to having done more rounds than some. Just 2 more rounds to go now on the 19th and 20th September.

[RussellT]

looks like the flailing altenator has goosed my wide band sensor.

I can get another from Innovate but the cost of the shipping is almost as much as the sensor. Its a Bosch LSU 4.2 anyone know where I can get one in the UK?

[c7borg]

looks like the flailing altenator has goosed my wide band sensor.

I can get another from Innovate but the cost of the shipping is almost as much as the sensor. Its a Bosch LSU 4.2 anyone know where I can get one in the UK?

Yep www.trigger-wheels.com

£64.99 - I've usd these guys and they reliable they even drop a cuople of sweets in with the delivery unless Scoff can get them?

[RussellT]

Thanks Andrew thats a big help

[RussellT]

OK we are getting to the last few events of the season and championship races are starting to come to head as people who missed earlier rounds catch up and the leaders can only improve by scoring higher than previous events.

Before the last round yesterday I was 10th in the LDMC and Im still 4th in the Harewood Hill Climb champ but that will not last, unless it rains all next weekend.

Yesterday at 3 Sisters we had just 40 cars and a 2 lap event in beautiful sunshine and all would have been perfect if my pesky missfire off the line hadnt come back.

It looked like it was associated with engine movement so I moved my HT leads around and cabled tied them away from things and duct taped the distributer head where it was rubbing on my bonet scoop. That seemed to do the trick and on the last run she ran faultlessly. I hit the line I wanted with the correct gears and was super brave into the last corner up the hill (where I crashed the last time out) requiring a moment of recovery mode. Crossing the line I was sure that it was going to be my best time of the day only to see I was a second slower.

Thats sprinting in a nutshell the you have to really go for it AND not make mistakes. Not at all easy.

Anyway I ended 3rd behind the double driven touring car of team Fryers but this time the experience of Bobby took the youngster Mark on the last run for an unexpected but delightful overturning of the recent form book.

Im still not convinced Ive bottomed the missfire and will be checking the trigger wheel and sensor for the Adaptronic ECU especially with Doris ability to unscrew things!

Next weekend Im at the final Harewood weekend.

[RussellT]

link to a photo of Doris in her war paint at 3 Sisters

http://www.longton-dmc.co.uk/wp-cont...ly-09-7751.jpg

[Rusty]

Sounds like you've had a good season Doc, i need to come down for an event next year, not enough hills here in Scotland . Good luck for Harewood.

[RussellT]

Well Harewood has finished. I had 2 good days my missfire seemed to have been sorted by some duck tape on the dizzy cap and I found a stretched gasket in the carb that I replaced with an old one. Unfortunately I felt dreadfull full of phelgm but that didnt stop me giving it a good go. I eventually ended up 12th overall as predicted as dropped scores came into the equation I fell down the list. A top 10 would have been nice.

I feel I have a fuel flow issue as off the line and down the hill I am one of the quickest in class coming up the hill where there are longer periods of full throttle the engine goes flat. So a new fuel pump is on the shopping list.

Just one more weekend event to go in 3 weeks time.

I have been asked to do a write up for Harewood so I will post a link to that on here sometime.