225 Conversion questions

[Gaz2405]

As some of you will know I'm currently putting a 225 engine into a phase 1 megane coupe.

Now my first stumbling block I've come across so far, is the clutch.

Now I'm using an F7R flywheel as I don't want the dual mass type, plus it fits. (plus my 225 engine didn't come with a flywheel or clutch)

However when i tried the clutch plate from the F7R the splinediameter is too big on the NDO box.

Now my question is..can I use the F7R flywheel (designed for 215mm clutch), megane 225 friction plate(200mm iirc) and the F7R pressure plate.

I'm pretty sure this will work but need confirmation before I buy the parts.

[Kris M]

Matt C is the man to ask

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/member.php?u=449

[Gaz2405]

He's using a jb3 box though, I'm using the 6 speed NDO from the 225

[Ashy]

just use a vovlo flywheel 60-2 pickup and you can use any combination of clutch

[Gaz2405]

The only thing is that the f7r clutch plate the spline won't fit over the splines in the gearbox.

[Ashy]

why cant you use the 225 clutch plate? not sure what the thickness of the 225 plate is but you could use a 172 / volvo or 225 cover on the volvo fly? only thing is I dont know what the 225 bolting pattern is like so you may find its trial and error. Might be worth speaking to Chris or Mat as they may of played around with different covers on the volvo fly.

[Gaz2405]

Yeah thats what I'm wanting to do use, use the 225 friction plate, just wanted confirmation it would work.

But I don;t have one to try it with, and don't want to fork out for something i don't need. (credit crunch and all!)

As I'm not a technician by trade and I'm learning as I go with this project.

Cheers

[Scoff]

yes, thickness might be a problem gaz. the volvo plate is 7.62mm and the Clio 172 is 6.5mm, so those plates and covers at least are not interchangable. you'll need to measure up the 225 plate and if it's either of those width's then you could use one of the fore mentioned covers. I have a spare 172 cover (somewhere ?) if you get stuck - that'll let you use a 6.5mm plate. if it's 7.62mm then use a late model volvo turbo cover.

failing all of that, AP or helix (via techcraft) will make you any plate you like with any spline you like, I've had some odd ball things from techcraft, they're spot on.

Chris

[Gaz2405]

Cheers for the replies guys, looks like more internet searching for clutch specs is about to start.

[Matt Cole]

Ok, for your info mate, the 225 friction plate is 240mm so afaik is to large a diameter for the 172/volvo 480 flywheel. As you have found out, the j series g/box splined output shaft is different to the ndo box so the friction plate from the 172 etc wont fit. You might have to look for a laguna/ megane diesel that uses the ndo type box and possibly rob the friction plate from them if its 215mm max. Failing that, i would look into getting a solid fly again from a laguna etc that will take the 225 clutch assembly if such a thing exists.

[Gaz2405]

cool found some diesel friction plates from the laguna that are 215mm so fingers crossed.

Gary

[Scoff]

it has to be able to cope with the torque though, a 215mm plate in an oe cover might not be upto much.

[Matt Cole]

cool found some diesel friction plates from the laguna that are 215mm so fingers crossed.

Gary

You need to check the centres are compatible with the ndo box mate. TBH if i were you i would just use the 225 setup as your clutch aint gonna hold up to much abuse. If your deffo using the 215 mm setup, as Scoff has suggested, get a padle made up with the ndo spline size.

[Gaz2405]

You need to check the centres are compatible with the ndo box mate. TBH if i were you i would just use the 225 setup as your clutch aint gonna hold up to much abuse. If your deffo using the 215 mm setup, as Scoff has suggested, get a padle made up with the ndo spline size.

I think that's probably going to be the best option (I was only trying to put of the inevitable).

Looks like its padle clutch time, as I don't want to go near the dual mass set up.

So 215mm diameter, NDO spline size/no. and get it made thicker as it will come with its own pressure plate? Is this correct?


First time delving into clutches, can you tell.............

[i l k e r]

I'm loving this thread, it answers many questions that put me off sleep for many nights

let us know how you get on mate

God, I love this club

[Gaz2405]

I'm loving this thread, it answers many questions that put me off sleep for many nights

let us know how you get on mate

God, I love this club

Thank god its not just me who goes to bed thinking about how to get around things.

And I'll second that the club is awesome, the best membership fee I have ever paid, the knowledge on here is 1st class!

[Matt Cole]

Gaz, just thinking about it, your still going to run into trouble using the 172 clutch set up. The 225 dual mass is considerably thicker than the 172 fly and means the clutch friction plate centre you propose on using may not protrude out far enough to engage onto the ndo box input shaft. You may have to space out the 172 flywheel from the crank or extend the ndo input shaft. Someone may correct me if im wrong as im not able to measure up. The drwaing board may need a revist!

[Ashy]

Gaz, just thinking about it, your still going to run into trouble using the 172 clutch set up. The 225 dual mass is considerably thicker than the 172 fly and means the clutch friction plate centre you propose on using may not protrude out far enough to engage onto the ndo box input shaft. You may have to space out the 172 flywheel from the crank or extend the ndo input shaft. Someone may correct me if im wrong as im not able to measure up. The drwaing board may need a revist!

Good point, I guess it depends what the laguna type NDO box flywheels are like? Are they dual mass or are they spaced out / offset to suit.

[Gaz2405]

There still all dual mass as far as I'm aware, I'll have to look at getting the F7r flywheel spaced out, unless i can get hold of a 225 flywheel and clutch at a pretty reasonable rate.

[i l k e r]

There still all dual mass as far as I'm aware, I'll have to look at getting the F7r flywheel spaced out, unless i can get hold of a 225 flywheel and clutch at a pretty reasonable rate.

you really wouldn't want to use the 225 setup mate it weighs a ton. I'm considering getting a flywhee made by Farndon Racing if I can't get something of the Renault's parts bin.

[Matt Cole]

you really wouldn't want to use the 225 setup mate it weighs a ton. I'm considering getting a flywhee made by Farndon Racing if I can't get something of the Renault's parts bin.

I suppose you have to weigh up the options. Fitting the 225 wheel would be simpler, quicker, fit correctly, has a cush drive section for progressive torque (less impact on the drive train and less vibration) and also you can get a clutch off the shelf that fits and more than adequate for the torque produced (up to 300ft/lb).

Gaz let me know which route you take as i may still have the fly and cover which could get you up and running.

[i l k e r]

Gaz, just thinking about it, your still going to run into trouble using the 172 clutch set up. The 225 dual mass is considerably thicker than the 172 fly and means the clutch friction plate centre you propose on using may not protrude out far enough to engage onto the ndo box input shaft. You may have to space out the 172 flywheel from the crank or extend the ndo input shaft. Someone may correct me if im wrong as im not able to measure up. The drwaing board may need a revist!

I just had a look and it looks like the ND0 input shaft is long enough to reach the friction plate.

I'll take the box off and have a go at fitting F7R flywheel&clutch combo and see how it goes, hopefully tomorrow.

I'll report back

[Gaz2405]

Cool keep us all posted, as my car is parked 100 miles away so can't go out and measure things up at will!

Cheers

[i l k e r]

Cool keep us all posted, as my car is parked 100 miles away so can't go out and measure things up at will!

Cheers

100 miles bloody hell! bit far isn't it?

well I have a similar problem here, the car is about 10meters away from where I'm sitting now but I can't use my grinder at will because of the neighbours

[Gaz2405]

I know, car is stored at my parents house as they have a double garage and a huge drive.

Plus our garage at home is full of crap (Gym equipment) and the drive is used fully each day.

Only get the chance to work on it every couple of weeks/months.

[i l k e r]

bugger, I couldn't find my F7R flywheel to measure, it's probably in my storage which is about an hours drive from where I live

anyway as I said the input shaft looks long enough but I encountered another problem today

assuming everything fits ok, starter motor will need relocating (if possible at all) as the 225 flywheel is larger in diameter by roughly 2 inches...

[Gaz2405]

I've had my F7R starter motor fitted and its seems fine with the f7r flywheel.

I'm almost positive, although you've got me questioning myself now.

I'll double check next time I'm over there now!

[i l k e r]

I've had my F7R starter motor fitted and its seems fine with the f7r flywheel.

I'm almost positive, although you've got me questioning myself now.

I'll double check next time I'm over there now!

Gaz, I'll probably go and pickup my flywheel in a few days time. Whoever gets there first reports back first

what a mission