Gearbox woes, Dilemma

[Ricardo]

As mentioned in the other thread i lost 5th gear on the way home from visiting my dad over christmas. It's been a while but finally i've had it looked at by a friend who's a mechanic for a MINI main dealer in our town. I didn't fancy getting it on axle stands in the cold, wet weather and looking for something i don't really know anything about.

Anyway i had the call from my friend, not good, 5th gear is stripped, shards of metal in the end casing and the gearbox casing is cracked as well

Dilemma, what to do:

I had a minor prang before Christmas which resulted the car needing a new bumper, wing, front grill and headlight. It's going through the insurance, all parts will be genuine Renault and total cost for parts and time in the bodyshop is £1600.

As i'm fully comp i'm only paying the £350 excess BUT with the cost of another gearbox at (£200?) fitting (£250) plus gearbox oil cost and maybe a new clutch (£100+) the final outcome is looking like a bill of:

£800-£900

The Clio is booked in for repair Feb 16th so it's gonna look minty mint but in need of another gearbox. Not sure what to do, i've been without a car since Christmas and desperate to get back on the road.

Do i sell the Clio once bodywork is repaired, help? I'll post pics of it soon

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Swap the white 5 for the clio un-repaired.

I am sorry to hear about this ricardo, hope you get it sorted asap.

[Markey Mark (BD)]

As mentioned in the other thread i lost 5th gear on the way home from visiting my dad over christmas. It's been a while but finally i've had it looked at by a friend who's a mechanic for a MINI main dealer in our town. I didn't fancy getting it on axle stands in the cold, wet weather and looking for something i don't really know anything about.

Anyway i had the call from my friend, not good, 5th gear is stripped, shards of metal in the end casing and the gearbox casing is cracked as well

Dilemma, what to do:

I had a minor prang before Christmas which resulted the car needing a new bumper, wing, front grill and headlight. It's going through the insurance, all parts will be genuine Renault and total cost for parts and time in the bodyshop is £1600.

As i'm fully comp i'm only paying the £350 excess BUT with the cost of another gearbox at (£200?) fitting (£250) plus gearbox oil cost and maybe a new clutch (£100+) the final outcome is looking like a bill of:

£800-£900

The Clio is booked in for repair Feb 16th so it's gonna look minty mint but in need of another gearbox. Not sure what to do, i've been without a car since Christmas and desperate to get back on the road.

Do i sell the Clio once bodywork is repaired, help? I'll post pics of it soon

How about if a few of us come over and swaped the gearbox for you, would save you a fair penny there.
Does the clutch deff need doing, if it feels good then might be worth just leaving it mate.
Sure there a good secondhand gearbox out there, sure i found one for a 172 for about £70 a while ago when i was looking.

[Ricardo]

Mark, any help is always appreciated i remember when Rob (top bloke) drove all the way from Hemel with another C1J January last year and between us (well me providing tea and some help) took the blown engine out, dropped his 1 in and had it running before sundown

I'm thinking maybe using a JB3 (electronic speedo?) as i was told the Clio 172 is electric speedo. Can the speedo housings etc be swapped over?? The clutch feels fine (mileage 86K)

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Defo feel up for a meet up and DIY gearbox replacement job..... I am game if you are!

[Markey Mark (BD)]

Mark, any help is always appreciated i remember when Rob (top bloke) drove all the way from Hemel with another C1J January last year and between us (well me providing tea and some help) took the blown engine out, dropped his 1 in and had it running before sundown

I'm thinking maybe using a JB3 (electronic speedo?) as i was told the Clio 172 is electric speedo. Can the speedo housings etc be swapped over?? The clutch feels fine (mileage 86K)

I know the newer 172 and 182's are electronic speedo but its taken off the rear wheel abs sensor, not too sure about the older 172's can't remember if they are too or off the gearbox. If by chance there cable driven like the older 16v or 19's then maybe one of those gearbox's could be used.

Yeah i remember when he done that for you, he's a good chap. Always more than happy to help out

[Ricardo]

Modifications

K Tec Racing carbon fibre bonnet
Brembo MAX grooved discs
Ferodo DS2500 brake pads
Speedline Corse wheels (Clio cup)
Yokohama Parada Spec 2 tyres
Koni sports suspension
Apex lowering springs
Phase 2 rear light clusters

[Markey Mark (BD)]

I see the 5's old wheels made it onto the clio

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I want them orange wheels back... suited the white 5 sooo well!!

[Rob@Backyardracing]

If its just 5th gear thats gone its a pretty easy job to swap that if anyone has a naffed box for spares and could help you do the job? Mite save alot more cash than to buy a box???? just an idea..

[Rob@Backyardracing]

And nice car too......

[Miller]

Sorry to here your bad new mate.

With regards to a gearbox why not fit a Volvo 440/460/480 turbo box, they are the same ratios as the gtt and is also an electric speedo. Plus the majority of them have had a easier life than a abused gtt box. Also because they are not sought after like the gtt box they are cheaper.

Haz/Scoff would be the person to ask if they had any spare.

If it needs a clutch then use the volvo 440 (pre 92) valio green box one, from gsf the last time i got one it was £70.

Hope you get it sorted mate

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Sorry to here your bad new mate.

With regards to a gearbox why not fit a Volvo 440/460/480 turbo box, they are the same ratios as the gtt and is also an electric speedo. Plus the majority of them have had a easier life than a abused gtt box. Also because they are not sought after like the gtt box they are cheaper.

Haz/Scoff would be the person to ask if they had any spare.

If it needs a clutch then use the volvo 440 (pre 92) valio green box one, from gsf the last time i got one it was £70.

Hope you get it sorted mate

I think the final drive is slightly diffrent than the GT JB3 version, i guess its how fussed you are ..

[Ricardo]

Sorry to here your bad new mate.

With regards to a gearbox why not fit a Volvo 440/460/480 turbo box, they are the same ratios as the gtt and is also an electric speedo. Plus the majority of them have had a easier life than a abused gtt box. Also because they are not sought after like the gtt box they are cheaper.

Haz/Scoff would be the person to ask if they had any spare.

If it needs a clutch then use the volvo 440 (pre 92) valio green box one, from gsf the last time i got one it was £70.

Hope you get it sorted mate

Miller

Good call on the Volvo turbo box i didn't realise it too was leccy speedo. I'm aware of the Valeo clutch but would it depend on the flywheel size, am i right in saying 2 sizes 200mm and 215mm??

I really like this car, it's probably one of if not the best car i've owned

[Andrew Cooke]

Sorry to here your bad new mate.

With regards to a gearbox why not fit a Volvo 440/460/480 turbo box, they are the same ratios as the gtt and is also an electric speedo. Plus the majority of them have had a easier life than a abused gtt box. Also because they are not sought after like the gtt box they are cheaper.

Haz/Scoff would be the person to ask if they had any spare.

If it needs a clutch then use the volvo 440 (pre 92) valio green box one, from gsf the last time i got one it was £70.

Hope you get it sorted mate

I don't think that box will have the gearbox mounting bosses that are on a 172, the GTT box certainly doesn't.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

[quote=Ricardo;40474}

I really like this car, it's probably one of if not the best car i've owned[/quote]


You have to thank the previous owner who rebuilt it!

[Miller]

I think the final drive is slightly diffrent than the GT JB3 version, i guess its how fussed you are ..

This is what i have listed for the volvo box, what is the final drive for a gtt

Final drive:4.07:1
1st: 3.09:1
2nd: 1.84:1
3rd: 1.32:1
4th: 0.97:1
5th: 0.79:1
Reverse: 3.55:1

Chris

[Ricardo]

You have to thank the previous owner who rebuilt it!

Many thanks

[Andrew Cooke]

This is what i have listed for the volvo box, what is the final drive for a gtt

Final drive:4.07:1
1st: 3.09:1
2nd: 1.84:1
3rd: 1.32:1
4th: 0.97:1
5th: 0.79:1
Reverse: 3.55:1

Chris

3.73, the rest of the gears are about the same

[Miller]

Miller

Good call on the Volvo turbo box i didn't realise it too was leccy speedo. I'm aware of the Valeo clutch but would it depend on the flywheel size, am i right in saying 2 sizes 200mm and 215mm??

I really like this car, it's probably one of if not the best car i've owned

The pre 92 cars were 200mm

I do not know if their is any difference between the boxes with the bigger clutch.

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Isnt there a volvo box that is a cable speedo? the same box you can fling in to a williams without anyone knowing with the ratio being close and all that...

[soapymech]

miller is it a strait gearbox swap what about driveshafts and mountings would i need anything else?

[Ricardo]

So a Volvo and GTT box is a no-no with regards to the gearbox mount position?

[Scoff]

Isnt there a volvo box that is a cable speedo? the same box you can fling in to a williams without anyone knowing with the ratio being close and all that...

volvo 440 2.0 N/A had cable speedo drive, that's what went onto my williams when the williams gearbox blew up. it'll fit right onto a 172 also

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Id look into just changing 5th gear, otherwise its a clio box of some sort?

[Ricardo]

Id look into just changing 5th gear, otherwise its a clio box of some sort?

Rob, if i knew how i would

Also the gearbox casing is cracked and would require the box to be taken out to have it welded

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Rob, if i knew how i would

Also the gearbox casing is cracked and would require the box to be taken out to have it welded

Are sorry i thought you ment the end casing which is tin?... i didnt realise you ment the whole casing.....

[Miller]

So a Volvo and GTT box is a no-no with regards to the gearbox mount position?

It fits straight in, drive shaft fitments is the same and in the Volvo 440 it uses the same mount position as the gtt....one at the back and one on the front. The mounts are a deferent shape but you just remove the gtt one and swap them over. You will also need to change the dowels positions.

Chris

[James5]

aren't the 172 gearboxes suspended mounted where the gtt box isn't!

[Scoff]

aren't the 172 gearboxes suspended mounted where the gtt box isn't!

yes, thats why you need the right one, if not a 172 item. the 440 N/A I mentioned has the correct mounting face on the top of the case for the clio mount.

[Ricardo]

yes, thats why you need the right one, if not a 172 item. the 440 N/A I mentioned has the correct mounting face on the top of the case for the clio mount.

Are the 440 boxes hard to get hold of?

Apparently the Volvo V40/S40 2l 16V use the JC5 box, can anyone confirm this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLVO-S40-V40-...1%7C240%3A1318

[Scoff]

Ricardo, Haz found me one in a volvo breakers for 40quid with warranty look for volvo breakers first. I think they're pretty common.

[gtmatt]

will the 480 fit ?? theres one on ebay now
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLVO-480-SPAR...1%7C240%3A1318

[James George]

will the 480 fit ?? theres one on ebay now
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLVO-480-SPAR...1%7C240%3A1318

yes, ratios as per Millers post. Think only diff to GT box is final drive and that is same as 11 Turbo me thinks.

[soapymech]

yes, ratios as per Millers post. Think only diff to GT box is final drive and that is same as 11 Turbo me thinks.

is the volvo box in any way stronger than the gtt box?

[Ricardo]

Ricardo, Haz found me one in a volvo breakers for 40quid with warranty look for volvo breakers first. I think they're pretty common.

Thanks Scoff I've found a Volvo breakers called called SalvoGroup recommended by a couple of people on a thread on Pistonheads so i'll call them tomorrow.

http://www.salvogroup.co.uk/salvosite.htm

As mentioned it's a dilemma, if i don't get the gearbox sorted down to financial reasons or other then there's the possibility of selling a decent looking Clio 172 that requires gearbox attention. SO, what would it be worth as it is?? I'm not being negative i'm just weighing up every scenario. Bare in mind regardless i HAVE to pay the £350 excess for the bodywork as it's gone through the insurance.

This is what it looks like cleaned, sitting on old OZ Ultraleggeras.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Riccy,

I would say the car after the body repair should be worth £2k-2,500 but it would be alot harder to sell with the dodgy gearbox...

[Ricardo]

Riccy,

I would say the car after the body repair should be worth £2k-2,500 but it would be alot harder to sell with the dodgy gearbox...

I know it could be harder to sell with gearbox problems but 1 mans problem could be another mans easy fix, a days work and it's back on the road for them. Just weighing up all the options Chris

[Big Steve - Raider]

I want them orange wheels back... suited the white 5 sooo well!!

WTF did you let them go for them Penners!? Those wheels on the white 5 rule!!!

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

WTF did you let them go for them Penners!? Those wheels on the white 5 rule!!!

I was mental at the time, the green wheels look alright on the white 5 tho... but going back to 13's soon :-)

[Big Steve - Raider]

There's a volvo breaker not far from me?

Let me know what gearbox you're after & i can ask them for you if you want??

[Ricardo]

There's a volvo breaker not far from me?

Let me know what gearbox you're after & i can ask them for you if you want??

If you can Steve that would be much appreciated, reading the thread (hope i'm right) the gearbox from a Volvo 440 naturally aspirated will do the job?

[James George]

is the volvo box in any way stronger than the gtt box?

good question, not sure, there has been talk of different bearings. anyone really know???

[Scoff]

If you can Steve that would be much appreciated, reading the thread (hope i'm right) the gearbox from a Volvo 440 naturally aspirated will do the job?

its the 2L n/a 440, its probably in a few other volvo's too. you would want to check visually that it has the footprint on top for the clio engine mount and that it has a cable speed drive.

[soapymech]

its the 2L n/a 440, its probably in a few other volvo's too. you would want to check visually that it has the footprint on top for the clio engine mount and that it has a cable speed drive.

does'nt the electronic speedo version work with the clocks on r5?

[Ricardo]

does'nt the electronic speedo version work with the clocks on r5?

I need a gearbox for a phase 1 Clio 172, i've been told the speedo is electronic on the Clio, the later ones (phase 2) have a pickup on the ABS, is that right

[Scoff]

the early clio has an electronic speedo sensor mounted in the "cable" drive hole at the back of the gearbox, so for all intents and purpose the gearbox needs to be cable drive if this is what you have. check it out, it's a 3 or 4" high black plastic cylinder pushed into the geaebox (rear center) with a 3 pin plug on the top.

[Ricardo]

the early clio has an electronic speedo sensor mounted in the "cable" drive hole at the back of the gearbox, so for all intents and purpose the gearbox needs to be cable drive if this is what you have. check it out, it's a 3 or 4" high black plastic cylinder pushed into the geaebox (rear center) with a 3 pin plug on the top.

Cheers Scoff, it's becoming clear now and makes sense now you've explained it like that

[Ricardo]

Picked up the Clio from the MINI dealer today, my mate showed me the shards of 5th gear teeth and the needle bearings. There's a good hand full of metal that was sitting in the casing

Now on the case to sort another gearbox.

[Ricardo]

This is a JC5 gearbox from a Volvo S40, looking at the pic below does it look like the 3 bolts are in the same place as the 172 gearbox mount hole locations

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-VOLVO-...1%7C240%3A1318