R5 GTT Rear Wheel Drive 172 project

[c7borg]

I can't believe I've just realised my car has been off the road since April 2007 so I think it's time to pull my finger out! And aim to get it on the road for the Santa Pod RTOC or sooner!!
Apart form wash it and periodically pump up the tyres I've done absolutely nothing to the car itself.. and it shows as the poor thing has developed moss around the bodykit and a layer of spores on the steering wheel. Well I've got most of that off and now it's sitting on my driver under a nice warm argos special car cover.

I never got round to posting about my Rear wheel drive project itself but you can catch up at my website http://www.gomodit.co.uk

Anyway back on track this thread will be about converting my basically standard R5GTT lump to a normally aspirated 172 engine.
Here's a pic on my MOT day just after converting it to Rear Wheel Drive it seems such a long time ago now..

[James5]

Where the pics for the rear 172 conversion

[c7borg]

Where the pics for the rear 172 conversion

okay okay I get the message... well you'll be pleased to hear I did start stripping out the old engine today hopefully have the whole thing out tomorrow weather permitting

[c7borg]

well the engine is out.. so that's a start I've started looking at the new engine and need to file out the holes in the throttle body to fit the phase two manifold and it looks like I'll need to do a little filing on the gtx engine mount as it fouls the engine a little bit

[James5]

Drill and tap the plenium matey to get the phase 1 TB in place you will prob find that 1 bolt goes in ok and the other 3 will need slight re-alignment with M6 Tap. Don't think i had to make any alterations to the GTX front mount, had to make a few to the new alternator bracket though.
Looking good so far matey. Keep the pic's coming

[c7borg]

Well... the engine is now in, although I've just found a bodged repair on the sump so I think it looks like a new one is needed.. Does nayone know whether the 172 sump is the same as anyother renualt model?

Also I'm on the look out for a fuel rail with a fuel regulator that will fit..

Apart from the set back things are going well and I'm just about to start strping the original loom for the bits I need to connect to the Emerald ECU.
Here's a picture as things are now...

[James5]

Looking good matey keep the pictures flowing

Ideally what you need is a phase 1 172 clio rail with fpr built in or a phase 1 16v fuel rail and fpr I believe may also work.

[c7borg]

Looking good matey keep the pictures flowing

Ideally what you need is a phase 1 172 clio rail with fpr built in or a phase 1 16v fuel rail and fpr I believe may also work.

Good news I've sourced a fuel rail from cit-ren cost me £40 which isn't too bad at least it keeps the project moving

Also a fine fellow from the cliosport forum is sending me a oil sump for £20 - bargin so things are moving again... going to pick up an engine stand to make changing the sump a little easier before the weekend, just got to hope the rain stops

[James5]

How's it coming on matey?

[Os8472]

Whats the word on this? still going?

[c7borg]

yeah still going, just haven't had chance to up load any pics..

The wirings 90% done just waiting my ecu to come back.. had a bit of user error - I was using the wrong comms cable
I'm still waiting for my new fuel tank to arrive, it's made or so I'm led to believe but he just needs to send it - it's an alloy tank to replace my rather pikey jerry can

I've just been to an intro to sprinting day at Curborough so I have another list of things I need to do like panel out the back (a bit like a turbo2) and some smaller things like put a towing eye on the back

but all in all it's getting pretty close.. I cranked it over the other just to make sure my starter motor could engauge and it did so that's a good start

I'll try and get some more pics up soon

[c7borg]

Can anyone tell me where the pipe from the fuel regualtor connects to? is it the little pipe on the throttle body?

[Ashy]

It connects to the little pipe on the plenum. Its sticking out from behind the throttle body...

[Ashy]

you can see it just behind the tps!

[c7borg]

ahh excellent

[c7borg]

where does the slightly larger pipe go.. you can see it near the coil pack(throttle body end) disappearing into your scuttle panel?

[Ashy]

Its just the air blled pipe from the top of the thermostat housing to the top port on header tank!

[c7borg]

I think I've piped that one up but there's 3 others I'm unsure about.. can any just be blocked off?

[Scoff]

No.3 is the breather, No.2 you could use as your brake servo vacuum and I dare say No.1 can be blocked off.

[James5]

No.3 is the breather, No.2 you could use as your brake servo vacuum and I dare say No.1 can be blocked off.

Agree with chris I have left number 1 open with no pipes connected, I have used number 2 for brake servo, and 3 I have got a pipe with a small breather filter on it

[c7borg]

No.3 is the breather, No.2 you could use as your brake servo vacuum and I dare say No.1 can be blocked off.

Ahh thanks.. I seem to have my brake servo plumbed in to something near the vvt plug - can this be used also? so if thats the case I can block all off except the breather

[James5]

Ahh thanks.. I seem to have my brake servo plumbed in to something near the vvt plug - can this be used also? so if thats the case I can block all off except the breather

That's part of the carbon canister breather setup, I have blocked that off matey

[c7borg]

That's part of the carbon canister breather setup, I have blocked that off matey

doh.. I better get re-plumbing - at least this concludes my plumbing antics and I did such a neat job of it

[Andrew Cooke]

just been reading back, and noticed something about Curborough, are you planning on sprinting as I can't imagine what class you'd be eligible for. I suppose since they're letting rear engine minis run they must have given up worring about the rules in Sports Libra.

[c7borg]

Yeah I'm planning my first event to be on the 14th of June at Curborough...

I went to Curborough at the weekend for an intro day and I asked about what I needed to do to prepare it for sports libre and they were pretty simular to that of other classes the main thing I need to do is seal the engine bay off.. which I suppose makes sense..

the other things are mostly just mark your ignition - although I seem to think I need an external circuit breaker after reading the blue book..

I think the rest of the car should be fine just need a rear towing eye and some more mounts for my six point harness!! I mean who needs two crutch straps.. I don't know if I even have enough room inbetween my legs

[Andrew Cooke]

sounds like they're allowing anything to run in Sports Libra, originally you'd have had to conform to special saloon regs which specified that the engine and driven wheels remain at the same end as the original vehicle.

Did you get to speak to a scruitineer? Can you get your car checked over before the first event?

Note that there are 2 breeds of scruitineer, the normal ones are just checking the safety stuff, eligibility scruitineers will check whether or not your car conforms to the regulations, you normally only get to see them after a protest.

[c7borg]

Did you get to speak to a scruitineer? Can you get your car checked over before the first event?

The way it's come across is that sports libre seems to be used as a catch all for anything that doesn't fit into any other category..

I have the name of a scrutineer local to me who I think I'll give a call to just before once it's road worthy.. with it being road legal apparently helps ease the regulations a little but we'll see

[Andrew Cooke]

do it if you can, the first meeting is stressful enough, if the car has been looked at once it gives you a bit more of a comfortable feeling. Be aware that scruitineers are always dreaming up new things to fail you on, so passing once is no guarantee that you'll ever pass again.

[c7borg]

do it if you can, the first meeting is stressful enough, if the car has been looked at once it gives you a bit more of a comfortable feeling. Be aware that scruitineers are always dreaming up new things to fail you on, so passing once is no guarantee that you'll ever pass again.

Thanks, I'll take that advice

[c7borg]

quick update, I've practicly finished the wiring and thanks to some of the previous posts the plumbing is now correct too

I thought I'd hook the ECU up and hey presto it works, it even comunicates with my computer especially now I have the correct comms lead ...it reads the sensors and gives reasonable readings.. I even cranked the engine but forgot to see if the TDC was giving a reading.. ahh well I'll save that excitment for tomorrow night!

All I need now is my fuel tank to arrive I should be able to start it! ..Although I can see myself using something make shift if it doesn't arrive soon

I ordered some aluminum (www.metals4u.co.uk) today aswell to start making some sort of cover for the engine to give me a bit more protection in the event of a fire

[TURBO'D CLIO]

you can see it just behind the tps!

Now that is a Phat engine bay..

[c7borg]

after realising my ecu gave a switched earth for my fuel pump not a live feed I finally thought I had it cracked until the battery died on me.. how long does it take to get a 12v back up to speed on a fast charger?

also can anyone tell me which is neg and pos on the fuel pump.. green and black/green I'm not sure which is which!?!

...it's so close to starting I can taste it!!!

[c7borg]

it just fired up !! wahoo!! it was a bit groggy and quite noisey so I decided to save the neighbours and try again tomorrow.. 'm hoping it just needs clearing through otherwise it's time to get busy with the maps which I haven't the foggist about if I'm honest

[James5]

it just fired up !! wahoo!! it was a bit groggy and quite noisey so I decided to save the neighbours and try again tomorrow.. 'm hoping it just needs clearing through otherwise it's time to get busy with the maps which I haven't the foggist about if I'm honest

Top darts matey. Can I ask does your engine soundy tappety? Or is it just mine LOL

[TURBO'D CLIO]

Top darts matey. Can I ask does your engine soundy tappety? Or is it just mine LOL

I work in a garage which is part of the good garage scheeme, we use forte engine flush's in out oil changes.
You add it to to the and run it till it's warm, the drain it out and fill with fresh oil and filter. It clears tappets out as well as a ton of other stuff it works wonders, if you have sticky tappets then let me know cus a can of this b4 u drop oil will clear tappet noise..

Rob

[c7borg]

Top darts matey. Can I ask does your engine soundy tappety? Or is it just mine LOL

Didn't really leave it long enough to notice.. it was just loud I think I may need to add another silencer or replace the Porsche one for something else

Got to wait until this evening now to try and get to to idle...

[Ashy]

Nice one, if you need a map give me a shout I might be able to help out with an old one from when mine was running NA!

[c7borg]

yes please - I really could do with a map.. I've only got one for a standard 172 with GSXR throttle bodies

Are all maps the same from ecu to ecu?

[c7borg]

Mmmm nice and shiny fuel tank and two rather long pieces of aluminum to cover up my engine.. all that work putting there and now I'm covering it up

[phase i 16 v turbo]

Has the fuel tank got a swirl pot in it beofre you fit it?

[c7borg]

Nahh, not really need due to the size the base is only 160mm x 320mm and I positioned the outlet at the rear so under acceleration the fuel will be in the right place..

Also I don't think I'll ever run it that low as I haven't got a fuel sender

[phase i 16 v turbo]

I had problems with the fuel supply when cornering hard, have you packed it with fuel cell foam? Might be worth it.

[Andrew Cooke]

I had problems with the fuel supply when cornering hard, have you packed it with fuel cell foam? Might be worth it.

fuel cell foam does nothing to help with surge

[c7borg]

I ran a jerry can before with the same dimensions so it should be fine you only tend to get surge when running a rectangular flatter type of tank.. like a caterham style..

like this..

[Ashy]

what ecu are you using? can i download the software so i an have a look if i can convert the map over?

[c7borg]

yep its http://www.emeraldm3d.com/setupv11r7.exe

the .fig files are quite straight forward text fles here's the one I'm using at the moment

http://k80rum.co.uk/Documents/bx16v.fig

cheers

[Ashy]

how do you scale the load sites?

[c7borg]

how do you scale the load sites?

load site 15 = 100% throttle open? 0 = throttle closed - is that what you mean

[Ashy]

right so its TPS as main load?

Can't help then mate as mines running Map as main load!

[c7borg]

right so its TPS as main load?

Can't help then mate as mines running Map as main load!

Yeah.. ahh well thanks for trying I'll soldier on with the bx map!