F7P Turbo Engine Build

[Lee-H]

Hi guys,

I thought I'd start a thread showing some of the work I've been doing with the F7P engine I bought in June. The plan is to build the engine to turbo specification, then start looking for a GTT to restore and drop this in.

The basic spec for now will be as follows:

82mm Wiseco forged pistons, 8:1cr
Forged steel rods & ARP rod bolts
Garrett GT2860RS turbo
Bosch 440 cc/min injectors
Bosch 044 fuel pump
Adaptronic E420C ECU


I'm looking for a sturdy 300hp . I'll be converting to VW gearbox to cope with the extra power.



5th June 2013 I took delivery of this:



The engine looked to be in pretty good shape. Most ancillaries included, sensors still attached and complete engine loom present. Apparently it had done around 70k miles.


After removing the head and setting that to one side, I proceeded to dismantle the bottom end.

Sump off, then pistons out. Big ends looking good, which was a relief.

[



Then I removed the crank. Again, main bearings and journals looking good. No nasty scoring or excessive wear:



Stripped the remaining bits and bobs from the block and gave it a thorough clean. This actually took hours. Carefully masked it up ready for engine enamel:







ImageShack.com


After 3 coats of etch primer, followed by 3 coats of Simoniz matte black enamel, we end up with this, much better:



The bores all look good, will just need to be honed to break the glaze. The original honing cross-hatch pattern is still visible.

So I set the block aside and began working on an exhaust manifold. After studying the 'net for hours and researching port spacing of various other turbocharged engines, I concluded that the Nissan 200sx item would be suitable for adapting.

200sx and F7P exhaust manifold gaskets for comparison:


I had an F7P exhaust manifold flange cut out:


Bought said 200sx stainless manifold, about £100 from eBay:


I plan to flip the manifold so the turbo will be mounted in a 'top mount' configuration. I temporarily mounted my GT2860RS turbo to see how this might work:



The turbo, It's a dual ball-bearing GT2860RS with 0.64 a/r turbine housing:



Cut the flange off the manifold, seemed a shame to do this to a brand new item. It looks to be quite a well made piece. Ah well, needs must...



The 200sx has oval exhaust ports, the F7P's are round so some reshaping with a dolly and hammer was required:




Starting to look good now, the runner ends are now round and pretty level so offered up to the flange:


Happy with that so the turbo is spaced about 1/4" from the head, used some thick cardboard to maintain the gap prior to tack-welding:





After welding, now for some die grinding to blend where the runners and manifold flange meet, where necessary:







Done:







I plan to run all pipes for fluid transfer in braided hose with AN fittings. Here I've converted the turbo coolant feed and return for 6AN, the oil feed is 4AN and return 8AN:




Got hold of some fuel rail stock from Ross Machine Racing. After carefully measuring the injector port spacing in the head, I transferred the measurements to the rail. This was then drilled for injectors and tapped for 6AN feed and return:





Had a bargain in the form of an Adaptronic E420C ECU from Marky Mark



Bosch 044 fuel pump and billet alloy filter:



Wiseco 8:1 cr forged pistons:


I actually wanted an 8.5:1 cr, but these were at a price that was too good to refuse. I’ve gapped the top and middle compression rings as per the supplied instructions. These I’ve fitted and numbered each piston



Steel rods:


That's it for now, I'll update the thread as progress is made. I'm pretty much at the stage of final engine assembly now, so I'll upload the pics soon.

Lee

[rs250nut]

From previous experience I would make the drain from the turbo bigger, -8 is quite small for a oil drain, I would go with a -10 minimum.

[Lee-H]

From previous experience I would make the drain from the turbo bigger, -8 is quite small for a oil drain, I would go with a -10 minimum.

I did consider a -10, however the space between the compressor housing and exhaust housing is quite tight on a GT28xx unit. I was concerned I wouldn't get a spanner in there to tighten the fitting if I went any bigger. It's a dual BB turbo with a restrictor fitted in the oil feed, so I'm hoping a 1/2" drain will suffice. I did some research before hand, it seems there are people out there using the -8 without any problems.

It was actually your build thread that inspired me to convert to AN fittings. That's a top job you're doing there

[Tutuur]

good to see another f7 turbo build in the club, judging by the pics it will be a good one!

lot's of experience regarding f7 turbo and the vag gearbox conversion (incl. me) so should be enough help present

what injectors are you planning to use? i have some flow tested, matched 400c bosch low. z set if you're interested.

i used a 1/2 oil return with the gt28rs too and never had any problems, the correct routing is most important imo. (as vertically as possible)

where did you buy the wiseco pistons? design looks great! (light)

(if you ever decide to change to a .86 rear for better topend i still have a brand new one)

[Lee-H]

good to see another f7 turbo build in the club, judging by the pics it will be a good one!

lot's of experience regarding f7 turbo and the vag gearbox conversion (incl. me) so should be enough help present

what injectors are you planning to use? i have some flow tested, matched 400c bosch low. z set if you're interested.

i used a 1/2 oil return with the gt28rs too and never had any problems, the correct routing is most important imo. (as vertically as possible)

where did you buy the wiseco pistons? design looks great! (light)

(if you ever decide to change to a .86 rear for better topend i still have a brand new one)

Tutuur, thanks mate. I'm sure I'll have some questions, particularly around the gearbox conversion

I have 440cc injectors ready to go. For 300hp I think they will just about provide enough fuel without running an uncomfortably high duty cycle. We'll have to see.

Thanks for the offer of the turbine housing. I think I'll see how I get on with the .64 first. Then if I decide I want more power, I'll probably upgrade to the 71mm compressor wheel and .86 turbine housing combo.

The Wiseco pistons came from a company in the US, Race Engineering Inc:
https://www.raceeng.com/

I agree, the design looks good. They have a decent coating around the skirts. The valve pockets are pretty deep for a good amount of lift. They weigh 318g each.

[Os8472]

I'm liking the modded 200sx manifold............ infact I like it so much I'm stealing it and claiming it as my own

[Tutuur]

Jaff (jaffman on cliosport.net) has done the same a while ago on his 2.0 turbo'ed Megane.

the .64 is a great choice regarding spoolup, i think your goal of 300bhp is conservative though. turbo could handle more so maybe with some bigger injectors you could stretch that goal a bit.

how much did postage set you back on the pistons? and customs?

i can get them for 600 euro's here in NL

[Lee-H]

Yeah, I'm aware the turbo should flow enough for around 340hp, but as I'm probably limited to about 300hp by the injectors I have, I'll probably tune for this initially. The boost shouldn't be higher than 1.2/1.3 bar and the duty cycle for the injectors @ 3 bar rail pressure shouldn't be higher than about 80% (hopefully). I don't really want to run things at their limits, would rather have some headroom for safely.

The pistons were about £350, plus another £100 for import duty. That's saving of at least £100 on UK purchased pistons I think.

[Lee-H]

Jaff (jaffman on cliosport.net) has done the same a while ago on his 2.0 turbo'ed Megane.

Yeah, I did see this. However, I think he's used a manifold from the SR20DET engine, where the port spacing is larger. This means that you have to manipulate the pipes more with heat. The CA18DET port spacing is closer, if I remember rightly there's barely a mm or so in it. The fact the ports are oval initially helps too.

[turbo ted]

love it another f7pturbo build them pistons do look the business as the valve pockets are very deep towards my wosser pistons I had my wosser piston valve pockets machined deeped to stop my valves them hitting my pistons at 9000rpm

[Nad-5GTT]

Enjoyed the read and the pics hope you keep the updates coming in. Looks like a cracking engine.

[Tutuur]

The 440's are pretty much at their limit around 300bhp though!

[Lee-H]

The 440's are pretty much at their limit around 300bhp though!

Probably, and they'll be the first thing I upgrade no doubt. As I said though, 80% duty cycle would be fine @ 300hp, if that's achievable. I have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, If necessary I could run 3.5 bar line pressure.

[w35ty]

Looking good mate nice project going there.. fair few people going f7 now including myself be all good once its done!

[Lee-H]

Thanks for the kind words chaps. Here are a few more pics of some of the parts I'll be using...

Gaskets, head bolts, belts, filters and bearings:


Pistons and connecting rods assembled:


New big end bearings fitted:


ARP connecting rod bolts:


Fuel pressure regulator:


0.5L oil catch tank with 10AN fittings. My cam cover will have the same 10AN fittings welded on to allow this to be plumbed in:


Coil pack for distributor-less wasted spark ignition:

[James5]

Looking good ditch that crappy Glaser h/g though you'd be better of using a cereal box if your going turbo as you are at least use a mellior h/g for the f7p engine or buy the triple layer gasket

[Lee-H]

Looking good ditch that crappy Glaser h/g though you'd be better of using a cereal box if your going turbo as you are at least use a mellior h/g for the f7p engine or buy the triple layer gasket

Thanks for the tip James. To be honest, that head gasket came as part of a top-end kit. I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with it. I'll try a Mellior gasket then. Have you had problems with the Glaser one?

[James5]

Thanks for the tip James. To be honest, that head gasket came as part of a top-end kit. I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with it. I'll try a Mellior gasket then. Have you had problems with the Glaser one?

When you get the gasket out of the packet you will see the quality of it it's not very good, plenty of threads on the valver forum about the gaskets failing also I think 5teveL had one and ditched it after he got it out the packet. I used a Mellior gasket for the f7p when I went F7p turbo but then I was only running 14psi and I had no problems with the gasket

[Coops]

welcome and nice build

as above, use a reputable gasket imo, rest of the build looks proper job so if its done right throughout should get a nice reliable setup on the go

not that i'm not a total advocate of the pikie build, mines mostly chewing gum and sticky back plastic and still rocks low 12's up the pod

[Lee-H]

Evening chaps,

A small update on the build of the bottom end. I've actually pretty much completed the engine build now, and more pics will follow these soon. I've just been extremely busy with a job change and a trip to NYC for the other half's 30th.

Anyway, on with the pics...

Bought a new head gasket, this time a Victor Reinz - now this appears to be very similar to the Glacer gasket I originally had, and judging by the packaging I suspect they are made by the same company. However, comparing them out of the packet, the VR gasket 'feels' better and is slightly heavier so hopefully the quality is there. I was advised it was a decent gasket.



Bottom end mounted on the engine stand and flipped over ready for assembly


Top main bearings installed


Plenty of lube applied


Under-piston oil sprayers fitted


Crank in


Mains installed in the bearing caps


And assembly lube applied


All fitted and torqued up


New thrust washers


Engine block flipped upright to begin installing the pistons. Last check of each one's rings to ensure the correct orientation



3 down, one to go


All in


And all torqued up. ARP assembly grease applied to the fasteners
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I'm afraid that's it for now, but as I said the more recent progress will be updated soon.

To be continued!

[Nad-5GTT]

Good work bud.

[GTphil]

Love a good engine build, excellent pics as this is something I'm thinking about myself in the future.

Some good skilled work going on also, impressive to say the least

[w35ty]

Looking good mate im making up some inlets for 2 members on here will post pics up once there done so if your interested in one have to let me know :-)

[Lee-H]

Thanks for the kind words guys

Westy: I actually have my own plans for a custom inlet manifold. Will be featuring removable plenum with nigh-on ideal shape & size, velocity stacks and the throttle mounted on the left hand side, to aid the routing of my charge pipe run. I will be using a remote vacuum distribution block for brake servo, FPR, boost control solendoid, map sensor etc. But cheers anyway, will be interesting to compare designs

[Lee-H]

I've stumbled across some lovely vernier pulleys that are not made for the the F7* engines, but are close enough to adapt, with a bit of time spent measuring up...



Anyone want to guess what vehicle these are intended for?

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

K series rover? Or suzuki swift?

[Jonny5]

Evo?

[Lee-H]

K series rover? Or suzuki swift?

Good guess!

Some numbers:

F7P cam pulley

119.8mm
28mm
40 teeth

Suzuki Swift Gti - G13B
119.5mm
29mm
40 teeth

[Tutuur]

Good one and what about the centre hole?

[Lee-H]

Good one and what about the centre hole?

That's a good question mate. I did encounter a few problems when adapting the pulleys, and to overcome those problems I had to measure then draw up these pieces and get them machined:



2 x aluminium 'top hats' to overcome the bolt-hole size difference, the Suzuki uses a much larger bolt, the F7 is 10mm

2 x rear bushings to account for the fact the end of the F7 cam has a smaller diameter than the Suzuki.

I now have a pair of fully adjustable vernier pulleys that sit correctly on the end of the cam shafts. I still need to drill and fit a dowel pin though, but not a problem.

[Lee-H]

Here's the vernier pulley adapted and fitted to the camshaft, and the pieces I had made to make this work:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Nice!
Any reason you didn't want f7 vernier pullies??

[Lee-H]

Nice!
Any reason you didn't want f7 vernier pullies??

Cheers!

These were a bargain, dedicated F7 pulleys are pretty expensive.

[Lee-H]

I'm just about to refit the cams, here's how things currently stand...

Oil pump drive and bottom pulley are just fitted temporarily for checking belt fitment, these will be powdercoated eventually


Turbo coolant and oil fittings


Oil feed detail, adapter allows the oil pressure gauge to be retained neatly




Exhaust manifold fits a treat


New alternator


440cc injectors and fuel pressure regulator fitted


Turbo oil return fitting installed after drilling and tapping the sump

[pascal-GT]

you do not have a problem to the Starter motor?

[Tutuur]

Different question, how's it doing?

[Lee-H]

you do not have a problem to the Starter motor?

Hi Pascal,

If I was using a Renault gear box then yes, the runner for cylinder #1 would prevent the fitting of the starter. I'm going to be using a VW gearbox though, so no problem

[Lee-H]

Different question, how's it doing?

Tutuur, I've been out of action for a while. New job, moved house and some personal things to deal with so I've had no time for spannering since october. I'm at a stage where I can pick this up again now so I can hopefully start providing updates again soon.

[Tutuur]

Will i see it at fcs?

[pascal-GT]

nice job!

[smithyr5gt]

this is great. going to help me loads. hopefully picking up my f7p engine Friday!! great work fella. love it!

[HAndy]

great to see another f7 build, what size flange is on the exhaust manifold out of interest? the manifold idea, is defo a better solution to the cast manifold in terms of flow, and would need to be t3 flanged if pushing for more than 340bhp at a later date

[Matt Cole]

Nice. Wondered what happened to this.

[Lee-H]

Hi guys, thanks for the kind words. The project is still on-going, just lack of time and funds at the moment have resulted in slow progress. Coupled with the fact that I need some custom bits made which has created further delays. I've definitely not lost interest though, and should be able to make some small updates soon. Reading some of the progress guys here are making with the 16v engine builds is very inspiring!

HAndy - the exhaust manifold turbo flange is T25-sized. I'm not looking at a drag racing machine really so I probably wont need to go much beyond 300hp.

Some jobs on the go at the moment:

* Modify crankshaft pulley for trigger wheel fitment
* Fabricate bracket for crankshaft position sensor
* Fabricate bracket for wasted spark coil pack
* Finish fabricating inlet plenum/manifold
* Make turnbuckle alternator tensioner
* Make up some AN hoses
* Refit sump and valve cover when I get them back from the powder-coaters

When I've completed this lot, I'll be purchasing a subframe to refurb. I can then start the VW gearbox conversion.

[Tutuur]

Why do you want to make a trigger wheel?

If you do the vw conversion the flywheel has a pattern you can use

[Lee-H]

Why do you want to make a trigger wheel?

If you do the vw conversion the flywheel has a pattern you can use

I'm using a VW G60 flywheel, not the custom one some of you guys have used.

[Tutuur]

G60 has 60-2 too i guess?

ashy uses that on too

[Lee-H]

G60 has 60-2 too i guess?

ashy uses that on too

Nope. There's nothing but starter ring gear on the flywheel.

Ashy appears to be running a timing sensor off a cam pulley:

https://rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Fi...d/DSC_1083.jpg

[Tutuur]

Ignore my comments then

[wilton_warrior]

Great read up by the way. Fantastic idea on manifold. Hows the build coming along?