grp front bumpers on the bay. wake up call

[HAndy]

i see that bob from cgb is selling grp front bumpers, im guessing he 's got a mould made, the item description says there are no more front bumpers available from renault, does that mean that the stock pile in france has ran dry??? if so is now the time to start getting moulds made of all the body parts, before things get stupidly expensive to buy !! its starting to get beyond a joke already, the amount of times this topic has been brought up , and dropped because the o.e brigade complaining of originality of the cars, there is not many o.e parts left second hand in the country now, as most of it getting shipped back to europe and before anyone mentions importing moulded items from a certain member abroard, the costs are not viable to do so, ive been thinking about making my own for a while now, and of next year will be, but i do feel that maybe as a club we should be doing something about this, rather than taking the "every owner for himself approach" which it is at the moment, the end results for this club will not be good, its obvious that we have not enough interest from the newer models meganes etc to keep the club going long term, and still rely heavily on the club numbers of the 5 gt turbo with a sprinkle of various clios and 9's ,11's 21's etc,
all i can see happening within the next 5 years is a few getting rich while the car numbers dwindle and get broken for bits, while getting more expensive and good bye club

rant over , my thoughts on the subject again as ever

[car.crash]

Ktec have informed me they still have the moulds for their body kits and would be pleased to put them back into production.

[Os8472]

Damnit andy I wanted 1 of those now every fu*ker will be bidding

[Matt Cole]

i see that bob from cgb is selling grp front bumpers, im guessing he 's got a mould made, the item description says there are no more front bumpers available from renault, does that mean that the stock pile in france has ran dry??? if so is now the time to start getting moulds made of all the body parts, before things get stupidly expensive to buy !! its starting to get beyond a joke already, the amount of times this topic has been brought up , and dropped because the o.e brigade complaining of originality of the cars, there is not many o.e parts left second hand in the country now, as most of it getting shipped back to europe and before anyone mentions importing moulded items from a certain member abroard, the costs are not viable to do so, ive been thinking about making my own for a while now, and of next year will be, but i do feel that maybe as a club we should be doing something about this, rather than taking the "every owner for himself approach" which it is at the moment, the end results for this club will not be good, its obvious that we have not enough interest from the newer models meganes etc to keep the club going long term, and still rely heavily on the club numbers of the 5 gt turbo with a sprinkle of various clios and 9's ,11's 21's etc,
all i can see happening within the next 5 years is a few getting rich while the car numbers dwindle and get broken for bits, while getting more expensive and good bye club

rant over , my thoughts on the subject again as ever

totally agree handy. As ive mentioned many times in the past snd recently on your other thread , the club now needs to get together and forward plan the parts supply issues we are now experiencing.

[chris]

totally agree handy. As ive mentioned many times in the past snd recently on your other thread , the club now needs to get together and forward plan the parts supply issues we are now experiencing.

I totally agree with you lads its something that can be achived quite easily but the hardest thing is getting people to put there hands in there pockets or find someone to take over it all like a buisness and they supply all the panals obviously with that they then have the monoply on parts which normaly pushs prices up

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Anybody know where to source the moulds, get bits made, and ofcourse storing it all???

Not something the club can do easily I am afraid...

[chris]

I must of miss read penfold i thought that it was all the members not the club itself?

[HAndy]

Anybody know where to source the moulds, get bits made, and ofcourse storing it all???

Not something the club can do easily I am afraid...

really?????

yes i do know a chap in my area, that could easily do anything we could ask for, even the phase 1 grills, he is busy at the moment, and will be for the next 3 months but, after that he could fit us in so to speak, it would take that long to organise the list of parts needed /specification anyway, which would give us and him a lead in time, he could also store the items also if needed, i would need to discuss a price for the above, and then pass contact details,costs etc over to club to finalise and confirm everything,pay deposit etc, and i'm sure other members have contacts in the grp /composites trade that could do the same, ie get some quotes together, but would stress that in doing so, ie getting the ball moving, i would hope with enough interest shown through out the club members ie vote system,that the club committe would back the cause or it could turn out to be a **** storm waiting to happen

[HAndy]

Damnit andy I wanted 1 of those now every fu*ker will be bidding

note to all (excluding oli ) let him bid and buy the bumper cheap, he has a mortage dont you know!

shows the attitude of the of club members right there, (im alright jack, my cars fine)

like i said , we need to do this or the supply / demand of parts will break the cars rather than keep them on the roads and in the club

[markg]

To my mind the way forward is simple. Support people like Mike ( GT Turbo Spares ) and Bob ( CGB ). Bob has obviously invested in getting these bumpers made and if people buy them and express interest in other parts I would have thought as a business it's in his interest to look at making those available. We need to be supporting these guys. If we didn't have Mike and Bob things would be a lot lot harder on the parts front.

[chris]

Thats the problem alot of people in the club cant stand the thought of someone makeing money they want everything to be sold to them at cost price if bob has a working mould for bumpers then theres a good chance if you say got ten names together then he would for example get grills made?

[HAndy]

To my mind the way forward is simple. Support people like Mike ( GT Turbo Spares ) and Bob ( CGB ). Bob has obviously invested in getting these bumpers made and if people buy them and express interest in other parts I would have thought as a business it's in his interest to look at making those available. We need to be supporting these guys. If we didn't have Mike and Bob things would be a lot lot harder on the parts front.

but if we can't get a decent club price , then we are back to "they are in control of what the going rate will be" ie name there asking price. i dont think cgb are reasonable on price personally, i have bought from them in the past because i could not find them anywhere else, and yes he does provide a good service, but after past conflicts with the club, and more custom else where, ie abroard. i dont think he would be that bothered about supporting our club anyway , so why should we throw all our support and money his way, my thoughts on that one

and would mike be able to supply these parts if asked through the club?

[HAndy]

Thats the problem alot of people in the club cant stand the thought of someone makeing money they want everything to be sold to them at cost price if bob has a working mould for bumpers then theres a good chance if you say got ten names together then he would for example get grills made?

did you ever get chance to go on fastcar spares website chris?

they had moulds for various panels etc fot the turbo 2, and most parts where stupid money, this is exactly what will happen to the 5 gt turbo, reichard motorsport do panels also again but have a high mark up, once you throw in postage etc, the only way to keep cost to a reasonable level would be to keep it in house ie the club.

[chris]

I live like 10 or so miles from bob so i have dealt with him personaly why dont you ask bob instead of guessing what he mite say or i can if you like i will go see him at end of day bob employs people has a large premisis has to pay vat dont think he is too badly priced if you buy from him alot you get discount he is also someone who loves these cars

[Logg]

Well done Andy.

This is something that us as a club should take ownership of and be proactive about this. In my eyes we have been lucky with Renault as parts are just starting to dry up 22 years after they last made a GTT Turbo is very good.

[HAndy]

I live like 10 or so miles from bob so i have dealt with him personaly why dont you ask bob instead of guessing what he mite say or i can if you like i will go see him at end of day bob employs people has a large premisis has to pay vat dont think he is too badly priced if you buy from him alot you get discount he is also someone who loves these cars

chris, your right i am only guessing at what bob would say, i dont know the guy, and this is not a dig at anyone in or out of the club, cgb, gt turbo spares etc, but i would again like to say that it should be down to the club to decide , confirm, approach various companys regarding possible parts and prices, not individual members of there own backs, although as mentioned above i will take time out to help as much as possible with such items if help is needed, and i would hope others in the club would do like wise, but it has to be a club that makes the final move .

[Ian S]

It's simple really. The club has insufficient man power. No motivation.

It's far from people / committee not caring / being bothered/ wanting to help. They just don't have time.

Making a profit is a great motivator and so these tasks fall to those who are, namely CGB, etc.

Just look at the side decals for a good example. That went on for years. Now apparently it's being done but not for the club by the club. Private enterprise, I can only presume motivated by the prospect of profit, may be making it happen. The committee / club have not even been informed / asked. But hay ho, it would not be happening at all otherwise I expect.

What the club needs to make things like this happen at no profit is someone / people to philanthropically donate their time and effort to get items made and listed in the club shop.

The existing committee are not going to. Haz has this week said that due to work commitments he does not have time to find new products for the shop.

I just re-ordered the Orange dials which mostly sell to Europe. And, with BigFoot (Dale), got the carb kits with the extra seals.

So please volunteer if you can do this for the club. Haz does have some storage and can post stuff out. Bumper storage may be a bit OTT though, we'd have to ask.

[chris]

Ok cool so if you have a word with your mate i could set a vote thread up if you like with what part people would want made first ie phase 1 grill then would wyou be able to speak to the bloke you know about how much he would want to make said part and then the ones that want one put there money in and that way the club doesnt need to be involved and the club members are in control because if we cant get members to buy them then theres no point haveing them made i personaly think its a great idea haveing them made and i will do everything i can to help but i cant see the club its self being able to invest finacialy

[Ian S]

Similar to the Koni shocks group buy.

We just ordered 17 sets and now are registered with Koni as a top level dealer. We can list them in the shop and on eBay and Koni drop ship the same as for any other dealer / eBay seller and the club don't have to invest in advance again. The initial order got us the 'dealership'.

With custom made bumpers, etc, it's really the same, the Koni shocks only go on one car and they make a about 25 sets or so with view at the Euro market. That's how the UK RTOC would have to operate with the rest of the stock.

If a couple or few members could get together and work together on this as part of the committee or a sub committee then that's the way forward. So please put the names forward

I agree that the club needs to take responsibility and ownership of these parts, that's a good way to say it. It helps to ensure the continuity of the 5GTT or the high after market prices will steer people to brake the cars and sell the parts, as they chose to do now.

I think some people in the club want reduction in the numbers of 5GTT to happen, the I'm aright Jack attitude, so the used price of their car rises. Of course there might only be 20 people in the club.

Win or lose it's up to the membership not the committee. People have to step up to the plate, join the committee management team, and make spare parts happen.

[HAndy]

It's simple really. The club has insufficient man power. No motivation.

It's far from people / committee not caring / being bothered/ wanting to help. They just don't have time.

Making a profit is a great motivator and so these tasks fall to those who are, namely CGB, etc.

Just look at the side decals for a good example. That went on for years. Now apparently it's being done but not for the club by the club. Private enterprise, I can only presume motivated by the prospect of profit, may be making it happen. The committee / club have not even been informed / asked. But hay ho, it would not be happening at all otherwise I expect.

What the club needs to make things like this happen at no profit is someone / people to philanthropically donate their time and effort to get items made and listed in the club shop.

The existing committee are not going to. Haz has this week said that due to work commitments he does not have time to find new products for the shop.

So please volunteer if you can do this for the club. Haz does have some storage and can post stuff out. Bumper storage may be a bit OTT though, we have to ask.

as said above, i have a contact who can and will, make moulds and parts to order, but the club needs to agree on what parts, materials, and a price that "most" are willing to accept, and back the cause financially. one possible way of doing it,would be to make one mould per year, and sell the parts through the club shop in batches once a given order /amount has been made and deposit/total amount paid for,ie with a set % proffit added to then go into a fund so to speak to pay for another mould ,say at a later date ie following year? just an idea, storage of moulds would be agreed with company in question, and a phone call made with a set amount of parts required, job done. nobody has to store the moulds or products, this way its not going to break the rtoc club bank or is it? just an idea.maybe its to easy ,and i have missed quite a few things out but as a club, could this not be achievied?

[Ian S]

as a club, could this not be achievied?

Only if someone new does it.

You have to bear in mind that CGB are already there with bumpers so were directly competing.

First thing is to get prices from suppliers and find out how much mark up CGB is making.

Will one of you go and get those prices?

[chris]

How much on average is it to make a mould ? Once the mould is made will the companey who has made it guarentee only to supply to the club or can anyone go to that company and buy there parts direct from them after the club has invested in getting mould made

[Logg]

When making a mould what happens to the original item?

If the mould making process doesn't damage the original item I'd be willing to lend my brand new phase two grill and bumper if it helped.

[HAndy]

Only if someone new does it.

You have to bear in mind that CGB are already there with bumpers so were directly competing.

First thing is to get prices from suppliers and find out how much mark up CGB is making.

Will one of you go and get those prices?

chris,or somebody close by to cgb could it be possible to do this?

if we can get an offical thread up asking which parts are wanted, and what materials out of, although i will state carbon/kevlar parts are not going to be cheap, but diolene (i think its called) which i think can be used with epoxy or resin would be an ideal alternative ,as it will give much better strength per weight over fibre glass and should be less prone to move and crack also, either way this could be discussed in the thread. once an agreed part/parts has been formed, i will get down to acle which will i, will need to borrow my club area rep, cough cough, thats you ross and andy being closest to area or anyone else who has a standard r5gtt in the area, to take a trip out with me, (need a donour car) to give mark (the person who can make the mould parts,chance to look at he parts requested, and to give me a quote, if others in the club, can do the same ,ie get quotes, we could make it happen

[HAndy]

How much on average is it to make a mould ? Once the mould is made will the companey who has made it guarentee only to supply to the club or can anyone go to that company and buy there parts direct from them after the club has invested in getting mould made

mark is a man of his word, and i will also get something in writing if needed to satisfy the clubs position.and if things did ever change i will have a 6x9m workshop up in my back garden by end of the year to store the moulds if needed, and my long term club standing should be enough to assure they wont go missing or i can sign the said document also too if needed.

if anyone has any legal back ground ,that could help with the wording required for legal documents /agrements then that would be great also

[chris]

mark is a man of his word, and i will also get something in writing if needed to satisfy the clubs position.and if things did ever change i will have a 6x9m workshop up in my back garden by end of the year to store the moulds if needed, and my long term club standing should be enough to assure they wont go missing or i can sign the said document also too if needed.

if anyone has any legal back ground ,that could help with the wording required for legal documents /agrements then that would be great also

I dont think you need to sign anything lol i would like to work with you on this andy thats if you want/need help mate i know nothing about moulding but i can go see bob if wanted mate

[HAndy]

I dont think you need to sign anything lol i would like to work with you on this andy thats if you want/need help mate i know nothing about moulding but i can go see bob if wanted mate

the more the better

as a rule of thumb cost ot the mould is usally twice sometimes three times the price of part depending on how complex the shape is /flanges required, and materials required, there is a great video on easy composites web page i think its called, let me have a quick look on the web for you, see if i can get a link

with regards bumpers, should be straight foward.


if you could meet bob, and maybe discuss the bumpers/cost etc that would be great, and get an official new thread for parts wanted, would be first priority, and let club members have there say

[HAndy]

When making a mould what happens to the original item?

If the mould making process doesn't damage the original item I'd be willing to lend my brand new phase two grill and bumper if it helped.

sorry for the late reply, as regards to damaged parts, usally if the parts are of sound painted/smooth surface finish, then there should be no damage ie wings/doors/boots/side skirts etc, that said if there are parts that need to sealed ie open slots/areas etc i.e in a grill ( to stop the epoxy/resin from running behind the open area and locking in the mould) then there could be some damage when trying to release.if the seales area were to leak during the moulding process, im no expert by the way, and if others have acess to contacts in the trade, and can help or get alternative quotes, that could give us a better deal, then please feel free

[chris]

Ok well i will get a thread started later would something like what parts would you like remade how does that sound i could even list them and make it a vote?

[Ian S]

I think pointless to do that until hard facts are ascertained.

If 20 people want them then they can't be done, waste of everyone's time.

Get the manufacturing costs first.

[HAndy]

for instance the the phase 1 grill i mentioned some months ago would have cost approx £250 to have made of my own back ,as i have a near mint grill sat in my shed, due to the complex design and time involved to seal all the slats etc , which i have still planned to have made waiting on mark to finish his other works before he can start it, as mentioned above it would be at least another 12 weeks before he could start any of the purposed club items.

[HAndy]

Ok well i will get a thread started later would something like what parts would you like remade how does that sound i could even list them and make it a vote?

chris that would be great

ian wind your neck in and give everyone a chance to have there say, if the pol/vote shows little or no interest then, fine i will drop it, but until i have more of an idea of what everybody wants , i can not approach mark for any quotes

[Ian S]

So that's £250 inc VAT and del? for one grill mould?

How many grills can be made from that mould before it has to be replaced?

Price per grill for 5, 10, 25, etc?

[Ian S]

You can't ask what they want with no idea of price!! It might be cheaper to buy a small number of them from CGB?

The fist question in such a thread will be what is the price, to which you have no clue.

[chris]

You can't ask what they want with no idea of price!! It might be cheaper to buy a small number of them from CGB?

The fist question in such a thread will be what is the price, to which you have no clue.

Yea fair point if the mold is £250 thats cheap depending on how many you get out of it of course

[HAndy]

for those that do share an interest in what could be achievied, her is a link to a web site that does composite materials and moulds/products , this is a carbon bonnet. the system they use is a little complex, but the basic mould method is used in most situations. some of you might even want to have a go yourselfs

http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Comp...ood-Part1.aspx

[HAndy]

So that's £250 inc VAT and del? for one grill mould?

How many grills can be made from that mould before it has to be replaced?

Price per grill for 5, 10, 25, etc?

depends on the quality of the moulds ,and how well made,what materials used, epoxy/resin , how many coats of release agent are applied between every other pull, but it wont be any less than 30-40 per mould.

in comparison the door moulds where £350- £400 depending on how the top of the window frame were designed, again until i get an idea of what people want ? i am not going to take a 2 hour drive over to acle, draging somebody over with me with an o.e looking 5gt turbo, and then spend three hours of marks time while he and i discuss /confirm a price for every single possible item /part on the car, then come back and put up the prices for everybody to then (mass vote) ask for instants a boot lid? this way its saves time for everyone ,and gives a clear indication of what people want and makes it easy to get quotes in etc

[chris]

depends on the quality of the moulds ,and how well made,what materials used, epoxy/resin , how many coats of release agent are applied between every other pull, but it wont be any less than 30-40 per mould.

in comparison the door moulds where £350- £400 depending on how the top of the window frame were designed, again until i get an idea of what people want ? i am not going to take a 2 hour drive over to acle, draging somebody over with me with an o.e looking 5gt turbo, and then spend three hours of marks time while he and i discuss /confirm a price for every single possible item /part on the car, then come back and put up the prices for everybody to then (mass vote) ask for instants a boot lid? this way its saves time for everyone ,and gives a clear indication of what people want and makes it easy to get quotes in etc

If you could get 30-40 grills out of one grill mould its a no brainer it would be easy to get the original investment back and like andy says put the extra to gettin another mold made say the next populer one on the list or am i missing something?

[HAndy]

If you could get 30-40 grills out of one grill mould its a no brainer it would be easy to get the original investment back and like andy says put the extra to gettin another mold made say the next populer one on the list or am i missing something?

nothing chris, its that simple

the more that want in,the more we get out, its down to club members at the end of the day!

i personaly would love a set of grp doors or kevlar would be even better,
no more dents, no more rust, will be bliss, and just think of the weight saving as harri has already proven, with fantastic results

[chris]

No more rust now your talking

[JRP]

Now bobs made a bumper I bet mores in the pipeline,

I've only skimmed the thread, anybody spoken to bob about the specifics?

I bet mike can find bumpers cheaper given time though he know sombody for everything.

We should forget the club helping and as members make it happen.

Please don't shoot me down, been here year after year just my opinion.

I bet a few of you could get bits made but just need a push or funds to help? Like the quote somewhere of £250 for the grill to get started... Maybe open a charity bit on the club/donations specifically for money towArds this type of thing.

Then a poll of most needed items...

Good day

[Hoolio]

Anyone spoken to Alastair as he did the batch of PH1 grilles and though he is busy at the moment he will be able to answer all these questions and obviously has the contacts to hand.

[Matt Cole]

I personally don't think a group buy is the way to go. Longevity can only be sustained if someone / company is willing to invest to make the parts and stock hold. Ie supply for the demand over a long period of time. 10 people buying a bumper isn't really going to make much difference?
The club needs to work with someone like Mike or Cgb who are already an established business and could supply the parts on demand.

How this could happen needs the committee to get together and throw some ideas around.

[car.crash]

It would be great to see this happen but I don't see why anyone would.
If I reproduced bumpers and knew I could get £300 each then why sell for £100 despite production costs.
Yes it helps members out but in reality what sales person cares about that?
It's a mammoth task for a member to have them replicated and keep stock only to sell at cost price.
It's a non service item so they won't be sold to often and its a large item to store and have dispatched safely.
It's not what anyone wants to hear but deep down we all know its true.

I do hope to see me proved wrong to save you guys the cash though.

£300 is expensive for a bumper but it won't wear out and won't go wrong and many newer cars bumpers cost over double that.
A tank of fuel is now close to £100 so £300 is not quite the end of the world in comparison although I feel both are punching well above their weight in terms of value.

Also who remembers the front bumper strip scenario.
Rumours went out that Renault were out of stock and prices hit over £150 for a pair. A few months later renault remade them for like £44 a pair.
Same for the sills.
Maybe this would be the case for the bumpers too. It seems most of this is based on what cgb has said again in order to make people panic buy at over inflated prices.

[chris]

I agree with you i cant see any buisness selling anything at cost we will see what happens if some members club together and get molds made and then the companey who has them just makes parts to order that saves on storage issues and so on do you think that could work ?

[Haz]

Don't mean to stop this thread short, but I've had a new genuine bumper in the loft for a while. I refused to sell it for less than £100, not advertised but no takers when I do mention it. So with that who'll but a copy for that?
As a rough guide its about £40 for materials, an about 6-8hrs labour waxing mould, gel coating, cutting sheets to shape, laying it, making bumper mounts (which most companies don't bother to do properly), popping it out and tidying the edges.
Add to that the people that say they want it, to those who will actually buy, and more importantly those who will actually fork out the initial cost before seeing a product is probably another reason it's not been done before.
Generally, to make a bonnet mould and selling 5 copies without a huge mark up (without a proper mould for an oe looking inner reinforcement) just about covers the costs before any profit so most places would want a minimum order if 10 if they aren't being paid for the mould.
Just to add, mike has a bonnet mould which I had made from a badboy bonnet to give both options to members as that's what everyone wanted. It got used twice. Had offered to make some in the past, but it seemed unless it looked oe inside and out and bolted up the same too there wasnt much interest. For that your looking at prima racing prices, think they are still listed on the website, but even then how many people thought they were good quality?
Not trying to be negitive, just realistic. Don't know what bobs prices are but imo leave him to supply until the prices get stupid.

[chris]

Haz if we managed to get a phase 1 grill mould made up for 300 quid say and we got 30 to 40 moulds out of it surely thats an easy cost to recoupe how much do you think each grill would cost i dont know much about it but i would be willing to get mold made at my cost surely i could recoupe 300 pound or am i missing the point

[Haz]

That is the point. Normally the person funding all the initial costs wants to make some profit not just the outlay back. To make a grille mould, although a lot less materials than a bonnet, may cost the same in labour. Like you say the mould cost could be absorbed by the first order, 10 makes it cost effective, more would spread the cost. I can only see two problems, getting 10 or more orders (maybe a deposit to secure them) and the main problem, getting them made in the exact colours and looking very oe, oh an the other colours too, cream etc

[Ian S]

Are phase one that popular? Mostly it's phase two?

So for a grill; 8 hours = £80? + £20 materials = £100 + delivery, PayPal fees and anything else. Plus say £50 for the mould as in £300 / 6 grills.

Since 1992 to 2006 I went though 3 or 4 bumpers. Still the same gill. Bumpers would be a bigger seller?

The fact is, for the RTOC £300 for a mould is a nothing price. We may lose £5k again in four months time, not that that's nothing but £300 is lose change. So what the F are people whinging about £300 for a mould! I just paid £860 for the carb kits and £1500 for the orange dials.

The bottom line here is who wants a phase one grill? One person? And £300 is felt to be too much for a bumper from CGB. Maybe the club could buy some bumpers from Renault in case they do get discontinued, or do a deal with CGB, or a deal with Mike to share the cost of new bumpers and Mike to store and ship them. Only if Renault are actually discontinuing them though.

[markey b]

Has anyone checked if bumpers are still available from Renault? I'm pretty sure they still are as my friend bought one very recently