So Iv booked a week off on the 18th to get this in.. Still a couple of things I need to get yet what's the oil pipe on the waterpump side? I saw it in another pic I'm missing this off my nee build.. I really don't want to take bits off my current engine but I guess something's I will have to swop over.. Should be fun as long as the weather stays dry..
The pipe near waterpump is the oil breather.
Cheers it was a bare block when I bought it an iv made it from differnt engines I will just sit the two engines next to each other and swop the outside bits.. Unless anyone has one local they don't want?
So thinking of going for a paddle clutch but which is a best alll rounder? Or should I just go for the Volvo clutch? If so which Volvo should I be asking for at my local factors?
How much power are you after? The volvo one is good upto 210ft/lb's or so, after that you will be better off with a paddle plate, it's worth getting a paddle if your not planning on pulling the lump for a while, particularly if pods on your hit list
I use an ap paddle plate with the Volvo cover and release bearing, and also the long arm conversion, it's ok both on the road and at pod so far, I'm only just pushing 200ft/lb's but it has coped with 30 or so pod runs all with full throttle launches and has done 2.5k or so, all is well so far.
Only 200 for now lol you know how it isiv bought a t28 now my problem is I will use it daily so I really need a happy medium.. I don't mind taking the clutch out say once a year with wear and tear but I don't want one exploding.. I have a standard one on now and that's lasted two years nearly and I don't hold back on the boost
Originally Posted by Nottswoody
Only 200 for now lol you know how it is
lots of people run the volvo clutch and iv herd of people running em with big power too! i belive dale aka bigfoot ran his f7p turbo on one.i think that was about 260bhp? good clutch in my opinion.will sort a part number out tomorrow for you. mike aka gtturbospares, has a few in stock
So engines going in next week.. What's the deal running these in? How many mikes at what? And NO BOOSTnot done one before
I do 500 miles mate but when i first get the new engine running i get it up to temp shut it off then drop oil in case of any crap when i assembled mate and change filter have you got a turbo oil filter ?
Yer I have a turbo filter I'm goin to run it with the t2 on just so I don't get tempted :-) then it's t28 timetold the mrs I will be going for a long drive to get the miles up.. Is there a set revs? Or speed? Can't keep going round the block
Oh and you can use when first started cheap oil because you are only guna drop it out thats what i do others may do it diffrently
Again others may do it diffrent but obviously just dont high rev but dont make engine pull hard either just take it easyYer I have a turbo filter I'm goin to run it with the t2 on just so I don't get tempted :-) then it's t28 time
different strokes for different folks!
some people say give it death from the off, others say take it easy for 500 miles or so.
here's what i did, the first start up i needed to bed the cam in so i set the engine speed to 2.8k then left it for 15 minuits, then dropped the oil and changed the filter, re-tourq the headbolts then do the tappets one more time.
I then did 400 miles with no turbo, i blanked off an old exhaust housing, blocked off the oil feed with a wheel bolt, and blocked off the oil return, bridged the coolant pipes.
i worked the engine up through the revs then let the revs fall on over run, took it up to 2k then 3k and so on and so fourth. Through out the 400 miles i was carefull to not let the revs stay constant for to long. After the 400 miles i changed the oil and filter
Then i bolted on the blower then did 25 runs at pod gradually upping the boost
Greats stuff thanks Chris/phil I'm sure it won't take me long to run it in that is if it runs lol arse will be a twitching on that turn of the key.. Hope the weather picks up or it won't be much fun in the cold.. Either way its getting done. Pod season is coming
Yea it will be funny to see peoples faces. I saw one today in shrewsbury they do stick out like a sore thumb amongust other traffic they do look good
Not sure if you've done this or not its a pretty simple obvious thing to do but make sure it turns over freely before starting it(valves not touching pistons) so when your cranking you cant do any real damage.
On my old engine i did struggle getting oil pressure when id had the oil pump off, i had to feed oil in to it down the oil filter housing. i litterally ran it for a minute with no oil pressure by accident lol.
i presumed it would prime and pick it up but it didnt. so make sure your oil pump has some oil in it to pick some more up
Yer it turns nicely tony actually very nicely the thing I'm worried about is the dissy really I did as the Haynes said and it all lines up fine and everything's nice and new plugs are in and all seems well so far.. Thundercat is coming over Friday so I'm waiting for him to start her up iv got plenty of other things tobe doing aswell so I won't be stood about much I think three days taking my time still got to paint the gearbox and tidy all pipe work plus move my expansion tank all the little bits really.. I'm actually looking forward to it I know some will hate me saying it but I got bord of the 5 being reliable lol.. I can only hope this engine is as good as the one coming out..
Itll be fine just make sure you crank it with the kinglead off till you get oil pressure.
As said run it up with cheap oil, dump it, change filter & clean turbo feed.. If you've got a new cam, you'll be needing to run that in, although I'd advise to bed the rings first, then swap the cam..
Also give the head a re torque, check tappets etc and have a general look around for any leaks.. Also a good time to just check a few bolts around to make sure everything is tight ie you haven't missed anything.
Now go for a run, going up and down the gears trying not to put too much load on and not to rev too high.. Also take it to say 2.5k then let it over run to 1.5k, then repeat this upto 5kish going back to 1.5k on over run. 50 to 100 miles
Now I'd swap the cam over, run that it in 20 mins @ 2.5k to 3k (most important thing really is to not let it idle).
Then drop the oil, change filter, clean turbo feed, fit t28 and
I also learnt if it's going to break, it'll break no matter what you've done
This of course is what I do and it's totally up to you how you run your engine in
Aye? Swop the cam over? It's already in there dave..
That's what I'm saying, u need to 'bed' the rings in and the cam.. Holding the revs up to run the cam in isn't really a very good idea as the rings need bedding in a different way.
That's just how I do it, not to say I'm right or anything
Is there any particular reason cams need bedding in at said rpm? what difference does bedding it in on idle make?
Hey I respect All yours guys knowledge as you've all done it and been succesfull
Yes, because they need bedding inI'm only going on what piper advise when you install a new cam, just like they advise to reface/replace the followers, many don't mind and seem to get away with it.
lol yeah i know what they say i just like to see proof/understand the reason for things, just seems like a get out clause for piper when they get a worn cam in for warranty.... "did you bed it in at 2781rpm for 15 mins?"Yes, because they need bedding in
lol yeah i know what they say i just like to see proof/understand the reason for things, just seems like a get out clause for piper when they get a worn cam in for warranty.... "did you bed it in at 2781rpm for 15 mins?"
No I think it was 2812rpm if I remember correctly
It has to bed to the followers, hence why you should replace. The followers are much harder material than the cam itself, I've seen weak followers concave before (like TNT Andy) and it not only destroys the follower, it'll wreck the cam.. That'll happen in no time at all, I've never had the problem until recently, one of my followers decided to crap itself and that was it, bye bye camit's an expensive mistake should you get it wrong, although, I think mine was down to a tight tappet (set it to an inlet not exhaust
)
I could've taken my cam back to piper as it was less than a year old and had only done 1000miles at the most, but I knew what their response would have been, so i don't think they say it to cover themselves, also my engine builder advises me to run the cam in..
Problem is, is everyone will say something different..... Sooo good luck Nots
here's what piper say
http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams...stallation.php
Last edited by Dave Reed; 13-03-2013 at 22:00.
Starting up your new or rebuilt engine for the first time
by Bob (mr409)
Whether you've rebuilt your engine yourself, had it rebuilt or have a brand new engine, you have alot of money invested at this point. Now your ready for that last big task...Starting it! I can remember the day I started my engine for the first time. I know that I will never forget it. It's a very tense feeling especially if it's your first time. It's about as nerve racking as waiting in the fathers waiting room for your first born!
This article will focus on the proper method of starting up a new or rebuilt engine for the first time and to help alleviate some of those nervous feelings. Following the information found here, you can correctly break in your new engine. This information comes from various books but mostly from my own personal experiences.
Starting an engine for the first time is a make or break deal for the camshaft. (unless your using a roller cam-these do not require the usual break the way the flat tappet type do) If done correctly, your engine will provide years of service. If done incorrectly, you can do major damage within minutes! It's the first 5 minutes of running time that can wipe out a new cam. The other 15 minutes is just insurance. If I haven't scared you away yet, continue on as I list all the do's and dont's to help you avoid such a disaster.
A very important step is preperation. This isn't something to rush into. Taking a day or two before fire-up to look over the engine and double check (even triple check) your work is a good idea. Sometimes it's easy to over look the most common of things. You want to find any loose bolts, loose fittings, etc now rather than on the "big day." You did remember to remove that shop rag from the intake before bolting on the carb didn't you???
Here is a list of items to adjust and check a day or two prior to fire-up:
Valve adjustment-This is very important to do now. Spend as much time as needed until your sure all the valves are adjusted to specs.
Ignition timing-Another important step. If the timing isn't set correctly, your engine may run poorly or not start at all. You want the engine to start right away and avoid any unnecasary cranking which can damage the cam lobes.
Check over the torque of the headbolts, intake bolts, exhaust manifold or headers as well as all external engine parts such as fuel pump, water pump, etc.
Pre-fill the carb with fuel and make sure the accelerator pump is working. It should spray gas out in steady streams. Doing this will insure that your engine gets fuel immediately. No fuel...no start.
Fill oil filter with oil-If you haven't already, it's very important to do this with your new engine to insure that the engine has a continuous supply of oil and doesn't hit a dry spot. (it's a good idea to do this everytime you do an oil change too)
Be sure to use a thermostat. You want the engine to reach normal operating temperature. Not using a 'stat can cause the engine to run too cold and not heat up properly. It's also a good idea to test the 'stat ahead of time even if it's new. Place 'stat in a pot of boiling water on the stove to be sure it will open. To avoid any air pockets which would cause overheating, with thermostat removed, fill the block with distilled water then re-install the stat. Then simply fill the rest of the cooling system at the radiator as normal. It's important to use water at this point and not antifreeze. If your new engine should have an internal leak, antifreeze getting to the bearings could wipe them out.
Check over spark plug wire routing. Be sure all wires are installed to the correct cylinders and that they are not touching any part of the engine that will burn them.
Install an oil pressure gauge and temperature gauge to the engine even if you don't plan on keeping them in the car. It's best to monitor the engines vital signs with gauges than to rely on idiot lights.
Install a tachometer. You'll need one to monitor the rpms during break in.
Now go get some sleep. Tomorrow is a big day!
Heres the list of things to do on fire up day:
Having a helper is a plus. An extra set of eyes never hurts! If no helper is available, don't fear. This job can be done by one person. Im living proof of that.
Check all fluids, belts, and visually go over all bolts fittings and connections one last time. I know, you just did this yesterday but do it again anyway! Remove radiator cap and leave it off until the thermostat opens. This will ensure that any trapped air in the system will be able to escape. (once the thermostat opens you can install the cap and continue on with the break in) Install battery and check power wire at the coil. (without power here, engine will not start)
Pre-prime the oiling system. This is very important! Remove distributor and all spark plugs. Attach an old distributor shaft with the housing (cam gear must be removed) or a store bought primer to an electric drill and spin in a clockwise direction for a few minutes. Check oil pressure gauge to be sure all is working good. Turn engine over a 1/4 of a turn, and spin oil pump again for a minute or two. Continue this until the engine has gone 2 full revolutions then, reinstall the distributor being sure to a align the rotor so it points to #1. (the number 1 cylinder of the engine must be on the compression stroke-if it's not, the engine won't be in time and will not start) It's also a good idea to remove the valve covers during priming to be sure that oil is reaching the top of the engine. *note-if using only a store bought primer rod with no distributor body the oil will not make it this high up into the engine as it's the distributor body that directs the oil up into this area.
Place a house fan directly in front of the radiator to blow cool air into it. An engine running at a high rpm standing still will benefit from the extra air.
Have a garden hose nearby in the event of a fire. A fire extinquisher is also a good idea but use that as a last resort as it will really make a mess! (saving your car is the most important thing however)
Have a watch or clock available.
Dump about a 1/4 cup of gas down the carburetor and operate the throttle to allow the fuel to pass through the throttle plates. Look down carb while moving the throttle to check one more time that the accelerator pump is working. (the engine is bone dry at this point so it will need a bit more fuel than usual but don't go overboard) Check to make sure choke is working properly and that it's set where it will start your cold engine. Install the air cleaner. (be sure to use the air cleaner in the event of a backfire-if any flames do backfire through while trying to start, crank the engine again to suck them back into the engine-this is a good tip to remember anytime this happens)
You'll need a way of keeping the engine at 2,000 rpm's for the break-in. If you have a helper, one of you can sit in the car and do this via the gas pedal. If your going solo on this one, do what I did. Tie a piece of heavy string to the throttle linkage at the carb. Make it long enough so you can reach it while standing at the driver door. After engine starts and you have the rpm's at 2,000, just tie the string off near the cowl or hood hinge. Then you will be free to walk around and keep an eye on everything.
Do the break-in outdoors! There will be alot of smoke coming off of the exhaust manifolds or headers especially if you have coated them. There will be plenty of blue smoke coming out of the tail pipes as well until the rings seat themselves. Do not be alarmed when you see this, it's normal. Be sure to have adequate ventilation. * Note-Moly faced rings will be broken in by the time you get the cam broken in. If using any chrome face type rings, take the car out on an open stretch of road and starting at 30 mph, accelerate to the legal speed limit. When you get to the limit, let off on the gas and let the engine pull the speed down to 30 mph. Repeat this about 10 times and your rings should be seated properly. This procedure can also be done if using Moly rings as an added insurance.
With all that done, your ready to bring that beast to life! Are you nervous??? If you said no, your a liar! Now take a deep breath. When you are sure that your ready and you feel confident that nothing has been over looked, pump the pedal a few times and hit the key. If everything has been done properly, the engine should roar to life almost immediately. If it doesn't start within a reasonable amount of time (say 10-15 seconds), stop and find out why. Do not continue cranking.
Once the engine starts, hold the throttle at 2,000 rpm's. Hydraulic lifters will be noisy for the first minute or two until they pump up. Check oil pressure gauge to be sure there is sufficient pressure. Listen to the engine for any odd sounds. Check engine at this point for any fuel leaks and if all is well, you can tie off the string to hold the throttle at 2,000 rpm's. Note the time. Keep the engine running at this speed for 20 minutes. (if there are any problems, you'll have to shut down immediately. Allow rpm's to drop down quickly and turn key off right away. Do not allow engine to idle. Find or fix the problem before resuming break-in)
During this time, keep an eye out for any leaks and watch those gauges! Also, be sure the choke has opened up properly. Once the 'stat opens, install the radiator cap. Do not allow engine to overheat! If temperatures go too high, you will have to shut down. (note-a fresh engine will usually run a bit hotter than normal due to increased friction of the new parts)
If all goes well, you'll make it to the 20 minute mark without any problems. Un-tie the string and allow the rpm's to come down. Set the idle speed at this point. Now is a good time to check/adjust the timing, and points if you have them, as well as the idle mixture screws. Shut down and give your engine it's first oil and filter change. (don't forget to write down the mileage) After engine has cooled, re-torque the intake manifold bolts. Drain the cooling system and replenish with a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and distilled water providing there is no sign of water in the oil when you change it.
If your car is licensed and all looks good, you can take her out for a spin if you like. Be sure to go easy on the "loud" pedal especially for the first 500 miles. Do not drive at any one speed for any extended amount of time and don't push the engine too hard. If your car is not ready for the road yet, avoid starting up and shutting off to show your friends or to get in and out of the garage. Get that car out on the highway as soon as you can to complete the break-in. (note-some people believe in driving the engine hard right from the start-I could never get myself to do that but it's your engine, and your choice)
After 500 miles, change oil and filter again. (write down the mileage) At this point, some say it's ok to drive the car just as it will be driven later on in life but I feel it's a good idea to continue to go easy on it. The choice is yours, it's your money and your engine. Change oil again at 2,000 miles and now your can consider your engine fully broken in. Oil can be changed on a normal time schedule from this point on. I like to change about every 3,000 miles.
I would like to leave with one last tip. Take plenty of pictures during the break in. This is one of those Polaroid moments if there ever was one! A video camera would be even better. I regretably didn't even think of doing this when I started my engine but then again, I didnt' have this list then either.
Have fun with your new engine!
Bob (mr409)
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All in all then, not too far from what I already said
If bob says its ok then it must be lolAll in all then, not too far from what I already said
Thanks dave..
Guys I know this is me being a tight arse but dose it matter what grade of oil I use to flush my new engine? Only aldi is doing some very cheap it's only going tobe in the car for minutes
You wanna get some 1040w mineral to pick up any ****e or buy some of the actual flush oil that's available. That's what I used...
Don't use the flush oil if your going to move the car or rev it over 3000 rpm, I just let then engine get upto temp and dropped it...
Will do cheers josh
I used chip fat grade oil to run in essentially, pretty much what you looking at, aldi special mineral stuff, worked a charm
Wouldn't hurt to put an oil filter in the turbo oil line for the first 500 miles - one with a reusable filter is best so you can clean it every so often.... Think what all that swarf is going to do you your lovely new 360 bearings....
I have one bud
Enlighten me coops
Let the transplant begin.. Should have it out today got till 4pm today the mrs says
good luckLet the transplant begin.. Should have it out today got till 4pm today the mrs says
Rained off
Well done mate we had bloody snow here
Engines outclean clean clean.. Waiting on parts now before she can go back in
Guys.. You know when you move the expansion bottle to we're the standard air box used to be did you just use that backet? Did you shorten the pipes? Any other little mods I can do while the engines out?
I used the original bracket it just needed a little trim with the grinder first
Cheers philI used the original bracket it just needed a little trim with the grinder first
Can any mods go into my photos and upload my pictures? I think it will be back in the car for Thursday just waiting on the Volvo clutch and soft pedal from our man mike and the t28 off Marky mark.. Then were hopefully running
Great it's bloody snowing here.. Today is not going tobe fun at all so much for the 1st day of spring.
Right then thanks to mike@gtturbospares my Volvo clutch and soft pedal just turned up.. Has anyone got a pic of how I fit the bracket? Trying to fit this now
This thread needs pics, come on
Look in my pics I only have an iPhone and my photo bucket kicked me out.This thread needs pics, come on
Right iv worked out the bit to the box but the pedal part is too thick for the bearing do I grind the pedal to fit the bearing like the old pedal?
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