Im in the process of swapping over my wishbones, arb, hubs and drive shafts for valver items. Is there a certain way i need to drill the new holes further out in the shock tower? Or can i just take the new track width subtract the original track width, half it and move the holes out that amount whilst still keeping them in-line?
Ph1 or ph2 shocks and top mounts?
If your using ph1 items you only need to fit camber bolts and all will be good, this I know as its how I did mine.
Can't really help with the ph2 items though
I sold you my ph1 adjustable top mounts
All my stuff if ph2
I have camber correction bolts so will try those as well.
do the r5 track rod ends have enough meat on them for the extra track?
Oh yeah lol, I haven't actually used them, still running standard ph1 top mounts.Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ
I sold you my ph1 adjustable top mounts
All my stuff if ph2
I have camber correction bolts so will try those as well.
do the r5 track rod ends have enough meat on them for the extra track?
Yep, mine did just fine, I fitted new items as a matter of course
ace i will be getting new ones would have got valver items but there out of stock
Make sure you clean the threads on the track rods and cost them in copper grease.
Your running koni shocks aren't you?
Yeah phase 2 yellow koni shocks.
Getting ph1 versions would cost too much then
If you used ph1 top mounts and camber bolts you might get away with redrilling the bottom mounting hole on the strut
The konis are pretty new so will be keeping them. Worst case il just re-drill the shock tower. I have no problems with drilling holes in it
Im doing the same as you but i have the clio koni shocks also. Let us know how you get on, you doing the rear beam too i take it?
Another question! I take it the 5 sub frame is the same width as the clio valver sub frame so it all adds up!?
Im also going one step further and fitting the ABS and power steering off the valver too
I'm not doing the rear beam at the mo, only doing this because it all came up cheap and I needed a new cb and wheel bearing so thought is just do the whole lot. I may just space out the rear beam
I don't know about subframe but I will be measuring the new track and subtracting the std track off of it.
Afaik the valver wishbones won't fit the 5's subframe. The mounting points and rubbers of a valver are bigger
Pretty sure they just drop in matey. I will find out tomorrow
Will you get back even if they don't?
Good luck tomorrow!
Lets hope so.......
I still have both so can Mix and match bits. The bushes are a lot bigger but look like they will fit. I will post up whatever I find
They defo fit, the valver bushes are much bigger but they do just fit
Right like stated the swing arms are a direct fit. I also managed to use my gtt pollybushes for the arb on the valver arb(slightly thicker).
Using camber correction bolts I managed to get the hub pretty straight see pix. Obv its still in the air but if anything when its got the weight on it I will have a better idea.
YES...............
cheers fella it aint pretty but it does the job
if euro car parts get their finger out and get my bits in il try and get some pixs up of the camber when dropped down
That would be great
if the bolts cant cut it i will be re-drilling the shocktowers and using the correction bolts to fine tune it
That would screw up castor, no ?Ph1 or ph2 shocks and top mounts?
If your using ph1 items you only need to fit camber bolts and all will be good, this I know as its how I did mine.
Can't really help with the ph2 items though
Better to move the top mount by the additional track I'd have thought.
cheers chris, thats what i will be doing if the correction bolts dont move the hub enough.
Im using ph2 top mounts shocks and the clio hubs if anybody is interested
I don't know much about chassis setup mate but even my limited knowledge tells me you would have less effective camber in cornering if you 'correct' at the hub.
Nope, castor is perfectly fine, feels spot on even before I got the camber settings right it felt better than the Gtt setup
ok matey then il measure the new track and minus the old one halve whats left then move the holes by that much then use the bolts if i have to.
where would the origional track width be measured so i can take my measurements from the same place as i forgot to take them at the start
Inside of the wheels, outside of wheels, outside edge of the disc???
Centre line of each tyre.
Oli it has to affect the effective camber in corners. Caster probably isn't the right term but the effect will be similar.
I'm not saying it's not an acceptable bodge but its a bodge none the less. 30 mins to modify the turrets has to be worthwhile. Even if you can't feel it others might.
On a ph2 I'd agree as the strut angle is different due to the top mount and the flange where they bolt to the hub, just ask HAndy how much trouble he's had getting all the caster and camber settings right but on ph1 all that happens is push the bottom of the strut out and forward a smidge.Oli it has to affect the effective camber in corners. Caster probably isn't the right term but the effect will be similar.
I'm not saying it's not an acceptable bodge but its a bodge none the less. 30 mins to modify the turrets has to be worthwhile. Even if you can't feel it others might.
The valver wishbones alone won't introduce a massive amount of castor as the Gtt subframe and valver subframe are fractionally different where the wishbones bolt on, if that makes sense, I'm crap at explaining stuff like this.
A little extra castor is no bad thing though, helps with turn in from what I understand, one thing my Gtt seemed to be lacking quite abit.
The phase 1 and 2 have different suspension geo ?
All I'm saying is that you will affect the effective camber in corners, and that it may have the opposite effect to which you're hoping. It will reduce effective camber in the outside wheel in corners. You can visualize that I'm sure. This may be a bad thing with anything less than a very stiff setup. I don't know though ? Or maybe that few degrees is not enough to worry about. Again I don't know. It's probably not significant enough to make an instantly noticeable difference to but with that many uncertainties and for the sake of 30 mins I think it's worth doing properly.
so they do fit!
with my 9 it's a other story, i tried fitting 19 wishbones but they wouldn't fit because the bushes where far bigger. gtt has the same size bushes so i assumed they wouldn't fit too
Yeah the ph1 front struts are basically a campus setup, the strut top sits bang on centre of the hole in the strut tower where as the ph2 is off centre. Where they bolt to hub is slightly different too, on the ph1 the bolt holes on the strut are both equal distance from the main body where as the ph2 the bottom bolt hole is further out. I think if you check the factory camber castor settings of a ph1 and 2 are pretty much the same but how the strut sits is very different, the ph1 setup lends itself to a valver wide track a lot easier than ph2.The phase 1 and 2 have different suspension geo ?
All I'm saying is that you will affect the effective camber in corners, and that it may have the opposite effect to which you're hoping. It will reduce effective camber in the outside wheel in corners. You can visualize that I'm sure. This may be a bad thing with anything less than a very stiff setup. I don't know though ? Or maybe that few degrees is not enough to worry about. Again I don't know. It's probably not significant enough to make an instantly noticeable difference to but with that many uncertainties and for the sake of 30 mins I think it's worth doing properly.
Yes the camber does change with the valver setup and standard ph1 struts and mounts but mine only showed 1.5 extra degree's of negative camber but this was easily fixed with the camber bolts. The ph2 setup I think we're a lot worse for this as the strut angle is different, I think HAndy found he gained 2.5 degree's of negative camber.
cheers mat. i will re-drill the shock towers and use the camber correction bolts for the fine tuning. I have been wanting to get it to you for some time now to have it set up properly, but its never running long enough to do so
one thing i will mention is that valver track rod ends are too long for the gtt rack even with the valver swingarms
No worriescheers mat. i will re-drill the shock towers and use the camber correction bolts for the fine tuning. I have been wanting to get it to you for some time now to have it set up properly, but its never running long enough to do so
Thats strange considering you are using the rest of the setupone thing i will mention is that valver track rod ends are too long for the gtt rack even with the valver swingarms
.,seemed to be a bit of discrepency between the turrets,good old renault
So in a nut shell, the valve running gear fits, Re-drill the strut top to correct chamber.... Win.
Scoff, As im fitting the Valver ABS also, can the wheel speed signal be intercepted some how and used for some sort of traction control if i go for stand a lone Adaptronics??
that strut has about 1/2-3/4 degree camber already, when you lower it to the deck under load it will gain another 1 1/2 to 2 degreesRight like stated the swing arms are a direct fit. I also managed to use my gtt pollybushes for the arb on the valver arb(slightly thicker).
Using camber correction bolts I managed to get the hub pretty straight see pix. Obv its still in the air but if anything when its got the weight on it I will have a better idea.
So in a nut shell, the valve running gear fits, Re-drill the strut top to correct chamber.... Win.
Scoff, As im fitting the Valver ABS also, can the wheel speed signal be intercepted some how and used for some sort of traction control if i go for stand a lone Adaptronics??
yesto the second part
if you want to run a ****e strut compression angle then go with the re-drilled turrets
Thats the max the camber correction bolts can do it was just to show really. you have to take into account that the floor slopes down to the right so it is pretty square to the ground in the flesh.
So are you saying not to drill the shock towers then handy
Handy i have clio Koni suspension too, Does that make any difference ?? This camber thing melts your head..
there would have been a steep surchargeThats strange considering you are using the rest of the setup
2 degrees negative camber is what you want for track isnt it? whats that going to be like on tyres for road use?
what about re-drilling the shock towers only slightly over to allow the camber correction bolts to dial most of it out?
Handy i have clio Koni suspension too, Does that make any difference ?? This camber thing melts your head..
i dont know about the clio strut geometry, sorry
wouldnt mess about to much unless you can get your hands on a camber/castor gauges to be honest, i played about with mine for basicly 2 days , trying different things
I have a compass, set square and protractor if thats any good
2 degrees is a fair bit, for road use, im running 2 1/2 on the rear2 degrees negative camber is what you want for track isnt it? whats that going to be like on tyres for road use?
what about re-drilling the shock towers only slightly over to allow the camber correction bolts to dial most of it out?, yeah i will let you know
it wont dial out enough ,by fettling the holes on the turrets, the bolt holes in the strut flanges that bolt to the hub are the problem, to much negative camber on the strut when used with 16v wishbone, to be able to dial out some of the camber with the wider 16v wishbones a phase 1 or adjustable phase 1 type top mount is need to get back some positive camber, hence the inline with the turret hole strut centre, as the wider wishbone pushes the strut out at the bottom anyway by about 15mm, it also adds positive castor,as the ball joint/wheel sits 5-6mm further to the front of the car, than the gtt wishbone, the phase 1 struts with the inline bolt pattern on the hub flange will help keep the hub at a more positive camber angle in relation to the tyre on the road, if you want more camber then i suppose you could use this set up and re drill the turrets to gain you slightly more non adjustable negative camber, and slightly more compression angle on the strut or the phase 2 top mount,which will give a lot more non adjustable negative angle, pushing the top mount centres closer together. a bit long winded ,but i hope that makes more sense
Last edited by HAndy; 28-12-2012 at 20:27.
I have a compass, set square and protractor if thats any good
no it wont
a bit pikey but, if you can mark on the vial where the bubble sits in relation to the outer line markers, or draw it on a bit of paper(so you dont forget) you could use that mark as an indicator for when you set up the new strut /wishbone position
ie the 2 ft level vertical up against the tyre or boat level up against the disc or hub face
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