Engine conversions which to pick?

[Nottswoody]

[quote=GTphil;287152][quote=Haz;287144]and even after i lent you my 5 /

I have to admit looking back when you lent my your five it was the Volvo lump with over 200hp, it was actually quite delightfull, efi made off boost driving much smoother. As an "out of the box" efi'd turbo'd lump it is probably the best way to go engine conversion wise on a limited budget.

I just can't help but love the c1j and now I have experienced one with similar power to your old Volvo lump I think it keeps the character of a GT turbo. I love the old c1j burble and when you hear one on full chat, well, they just sound awesome

I do however remember you absolutly used to kick your Volvo lumps head in day in day out, did loads and loads of pod runs with it and it never missed a beat. Weather or not I would do that with my c1j I'm not sure

and thats my dilema i dont want to keep rebuilding the c1j and i do give it hell pretty much everyday.. like this morning on the way to work there was some crazy smells coming from it... but soon as i parked up it cooled down very quick and the smell vanished... sounded and pulled very nice at 1.4bar just stinky but i guess thats the old gals way of saying REBUILD ME BITCH!!!

[tubbyG]

the fact the lump is taking the abuse dished out to it daily while on a high mileage is testament to how good these little lumps are.

I bet that with a proper bottom end refresh with cam/vernier, bearings and rings you will be delighted with the difference - and it dont cost much if your doing it yourself.... and with 20psi running through it you will see way more than 150bhp

with all the spare $$$ left over you can even treat the missus to keep her sweet from all the time you have been spending in the garage ..... win, win!

[Ashy]

You wont get far on any of the 2.0l conversions with 1k.

A decent ECU will eat up over half the budget before you've even started.

[djinuk]

c1js do smell when there hot, ive decided thats just because lol

[Dave Reed]

Or why not do a rebuild and fit EFI to the c1j? Will be as reliable as any other modern day car

[Logg]

Unless your wanting a 300 bhp+ and the clutch/gearbox issues that come with that much power just stick with the old C1J but just teach it a few new tricks.

Nothing quite beats the reaction when explaining it's just a 1.4 push rod lump that's left them for dead.

[BluntyR5GTT]

but surley the gears dont match the power? the little gearbox struggles now so what would it be like with another 50 horses?

paul i wish my car was road legal pal as id have no probs taking you out in it, and i could guarantee that you would have no doubts that you would want this c1j power.

[Nottswoody]

paul i wish my car was road legal pal as id have no probs taking you out in it, and i could guarantee that you would have no doubts that you would want this c1j power.

It's the way I'm going to go.. Stick with the c1j I think it's my level of rebuild really. Dose it not kill drive shafts or gearboxes? I don't spin off from standing starts or anything I more bring it in then go for it after 2nd is there not any you tube vids of that kind of power on the track? Or pod runs?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

It's the way I'm going to go.. Stick with the c1j I think it's my level of rebuild really. Dose it not kill drive shafts or gearboxes? I don't spin off from standing starts or anything I more bring it in then go for it after 2nd is there not any you tube vids of that kind of power on the track? Or pod runs?

Its torque that kills gearboxs and driveshafts, not power

Unless your pushing more than 300ft lb or torque then your be absolutely fine with the box and shafts

[Nottswoody]

Infact blunty do you have the link to my car when the last owner had 200+ out of her?

[Nottswoody]

Its torque that kills gearboxs and driveshafts, not power

Unless your pushing more than 300ft lb or torque then your be absolutely fine with the box and shafts

Phew

[BluntyR5GTT]

i dont have any links to vids of it, i could ask ste if he has any though? it did 224bhp at 18psi iirc was very lean though like 14afr

[Nottswoody]

i dont have any links to vids of it, i could ask ste if he has any though? it did 224bhp at 18psi iirc was very lean though like 14afr

From the state I Bought the car in and the level of his mechanic skills I'm not surprised at all.. If you could that would be great..

So anyone Fancie knocking me up a parts list of what's needed? Would be very greatfull and I might even buy you a curly wurly for it

[Markey Mark (BD)]

From the state I Bought the car in and the level of his mechanic skills I'm not surprised at all.. If you could that would be great..

So anyone Fancie knocking me up a parts list of what's needed? Would be very greatfull and I might even buy you a curly wurly for it

285 Cam kit
Decent spec turbo (T25 or T28)
All gaskets (bottom end and headset)
Good sized downpipe and exhaust
Well set up carb
Good working fuel system

Thats only basic list of bits needed, it all really depends your spec now and how old the parts are
For me i would throw in a light flywheel too but thats just me, also if you approching 230bhp or 200-220ft lb torque i would look into new paddle clutch also

[Nottswoody]

285 Cam kit
Decent spec turbo (T25 or T28)
All gaskets (bottom end and headset)
Good sized downpipe and exhaust
Well set up carb
Good working fuel system

Thats only basic list of bits needed, it all really depends your spec now and how old the parts are
For me i would throw in a light flywheel too but thats just me, also if you approching 230bhp or 200-220ft lb torque i would look into new paddle clutch also

That's not bad then really carbs fully rebuilt flywheel I can have done fuel system is already new it's just the cam and things really then I was going to put new rings in? Liners? Theres nothing wrong with the engine it's good but if it's out it's got to be worth rebuilding the lot? Just because I don't know the age and if it's been built before.. Or should I leave it? It has the thicker headgasket on as we did that last month.. You don't think the tomcats upto it? It's only a 1000 miles old really I have standar down pipe and 2nhalf magnex on at the min 4x4 intercooler and green filter.. I have the AFR gauge aswell..

[Markey Mark (BD)]

That's not bad then really carbs fully rebuilt flywheel I can have done fuel system is already new it's just the cam and things really then I was going to put new rings in? Liners? Theres nothing wrong with the engine it's good but if it's out it's got to be worth rebuilding the lot? Just because I don't know the age and if it's been built before.. Or should I leave it? It has the thicker headgasket on as we did that last month.. You don't think the tomcats upto it? It's only a 1000 miles old really I have standar down pipe and 2nhalf magnex on at the min 4x4 intercooler and green filter.. I have the AFR gauge aswell..

Might be worth fitting new rings, if pistons and liner are in good condition and within tolernace then no need to change them.
To do cam you'll need to take head off so another headgasket mate i'm afraid, I have had 230bhp from a T25 turbo which was based on a tomcat turbo but it wasn't identical to a Tomcat, few little changes.
For me i would go bigger downpipe and ehxaust, at least 2 1/4" downpipe and system, 4x4 intercooler should be ok but i've never used one so not sure how well they cool

[BluntyR5GTT]

the tomcat will easily do 200bhp fella.

[Nottswoody]

Might be worth fitting new rings, if pistons and liner are in good condition and within tolernace then no need to change them.
To do cam you'll need to take head off so another headgasket mate i'm afraid, I have had 230bhp from a T25 turbo which was based on a tomcat turbo but it wasn't identical to a Tomcat, few little changes.
For me i would go bigger downpipe and ehxaust, at least 2 1/4" downpipe and system, 4x4 intercooler should be ok but i've never used one so not sure how well they cool

Would it need skimming again as it was down to 73mm on the last skim.. .. That's a shame about the exhaust as I chucked the one that came with it as it fit ****e.. I'm sure someone will have one around but that's for a later date.. I take it the bible will be needed (Haynes) for tolerances so no need to resell or bearings and regrind the cranck?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

If its still flat you won't need to skim it although if your head is at 73mm thats getting alittle thin now

[Nottswoody]

If its still flat you won't need to skim it although if your head is at 73mm thats getting alittle thin now

I think it was 73.9

[Markey Mark (BD)]

I think it was 73.9

Double check it to be sure, if its 73.9mm thats abit more than factory although i'm sure some later heads came as 74mm, if its more than 73mm exactly you'll be ok.

Just a thought, depending on how much power you want to go the set up is key even though you have all the parts to do the job if its not set up right it'll either not produce the power or worse kill the engine.

[Nottswoody]

Double check it to be sure, if its 73.9mm thats abit more than factory although i'm sure some later heads came as 74mm, if its more than 73mm exactly you'll be ok.

Sorry checked my last thread it was 73.2 then fitted with the 1.9 gasket

[Nottswoody]

Double check it to be sure, if its 73.9mm thats abit more than factory although i'm sure some later heads came as 74mm, if its more than 73mm exactly you'll be ok.

Just a thought, depending on how much power you want to go the set up is key even though you have all the parts to do the job if its not set up right it'll either not produce the power or worse kill the engine.

Well im hoping with all your guys help I should be able to set it up?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

Sorry checked my last thread it was 73.2 then fitted with the 1.9 gasket

Thats ok for now but getting close to border line for me, depending on boost you running might look into ways of dropping comp ratio abit to compensate for skimmed head

[Nottswoody]

Thats ok for now but getting close to border line for me, depending on boost you running might look into ways of dropping comp ratio abit to compensate for skimmed head

I'm running 1.4bar at the min but my gauge is fed off the standard in car pipe if that make sense?

[Jonny5]

I'm running 1.4bar at the min but my gauge is fed off the standard in car pipe if that make sense?

Measuring from carb top then? Unless its been changed around.
I would move it into the aei line and see what boost your at then mate

[Nottswoody]

Measuring from carb top then? Unless its been changed around.
I would move it into the aei line and see what boost your at then mate

So which would it be more or less boost

[Jonny5]

So which would it be more or less boost

Aei line will show Boost and also vaccum. Will more than likely show a drop as its measured after the carb. Meaning you can turn the boost up more to get a true 1.4 bar.
Using the Aei line also gives a more accurate reading of what the engine is actually seeing.

[Nottswoody]

Well as look has it I have a spare t on the aei vac will change it asap but busy this weekend with a wedding I can't get out of

[Jonny5]

Well as look has it I have a spare t on the aei vac will change it asap but busy this weekend with a wedding I can't get out of

I recon you're only going to be running about 1.2 bar.

[Nottswoody]

Who has a full c1j rebuild with fast road cam on there thread the more detailed the better please guys..

[Nottswoody]

Who has a full c1j rebuild with fast road cam on there thread the more detailed the better please guys..

Any one? Will be starting this next week also could I make modifications to the head and manifolds? I.e smooth the ports? Basiclly I will try all tested tricks to get those reliable horses out this 5..

[Alex]

Have a look in my profile, all done in 2008/2009

[Brigsy]

Keep the head standard unless you have money to burn.

[BILLY-R5GTT]

I think a good c1j, forged up running a good turbo and set up correctly does the job in a 5 very well. If you are thinking of going 16v then the F7P and the Williams F7R will be the easiest to get up and running as they are pretty basic and still run the dizzy. The F7RT from the Megane would be a great choice, you can get a whole car for about 2-3k now so you would have all the parts you need if you wanted to swap it over. It all depends on how much you would like to spend...

The F7R/F7P are a non turbo engines as you know but the bonus is you'll get an engine complete or a car for £500 and then you can start throwing money at it to handle a turbo. Or for the same price (ish inc everything you have done to the F7P/R to get it to turbo stage) would the easier option be just to buy a turbo'd engine to start with F4RT for example? (swings and rounderbouts really)

All depends on your preference, if you want fun doing it, money you want to spend, and if you want to be different.

I will be keeping the C1J in my 5 GTT but once thats all finished i'll hopefully be putting the 225 F4RT in my 19 16v cabriolet. I used to have a tuned volvo 480 turbo (B18FT) that it drove about in for abit, I bought the car just for the engine to put in my last 19 16v cabriolet. The engine was reliable but I didn't really rate it to be honest, maybe it would have been different in a 5 with a better power to weight ratio, the volvo is a big heavy car.

[Nottswoody]

Keep the head standard unless you have money to burn.

My aime is to only mod myself no shops having my money was just wondering if people had successfully done there own mods on the c1j engines? I only plan on cam and lighten the flywheel really unless there is other free things I can do to it while rebuilding a c1j

[Nottswoody]

I think a good c1j, forged up running a good turbo and set up correctly does the job in a 5 very well. If you are thinking of going 16v then the F7P and the Williams F7R will be the easiest to get up and running as they are pretty basic and still run the dizzy. The F7RT from the Megane would be a great choice, you can get a whole car for about 2-3k now so you would have all the parts you need if you wanted to swap it over. It all depends on how much you would like to spend...

The F7R/F7P are a non turbo engines as you know but the bonus is you'll get an engine complete or a car for £500 and then you can start throwing money at it to handle a turbo. Or for the same price (ish inc everything you have done to the F7P/R to get it to turbo stage) would the easier option be just to buy a turbo'd engine to start with F4RT for example? (swings and rounderbouts really)

All depends on your preference, if you want fun doing it, money you want to spend, and if you want to be different.

I will be keeping the C1J in my 5 GTT but once thats all finished i'll hopefully be putting the 225 F4RT in my 19 16v cabriolet. I used to have a tuned volvo 480 turbo (B18FT) that it drove about in for abit, I bought the car just for the engine to put in my last 19 16v cabriolet. The engine was reliable but I didn't really rate it to be honest, maybe it would have been different in a 5 with a better power to weight ratio, the volvo is a big heavy car.

quality info bud thanks

but im sticking with a rebuild on a c1j fast road cam pistons etc etc i cant afford all this forged items so far the c1j has taken all i give it but it really needs a cam and a freshen up. i saw an mot that said 152000 on the clock my clock says 70000 on yer right the engine i have in runs sweet as a nut but while i put the cam in it would be rude not to rebuild it as the car is staying with me till the dreaded tin worm gets it..

[BILLY-R5GTT]

quality info bud thanks

but im sticking with a rebuild on a c1j fast road cam pistons etc etc i cant afford all this forged items so far the c1j has taken all i give it but it really needs a cam and a freshen up. i saw an mot that said 152000 on the clock my clock says 70000 on yer right the engine i have in runs sweet as a nut but while i put the cam in it would be rude not to rebuild it as the car is staying with me till the dreaded tin worm gets it..

No prob mate

I'm in the exact same boat at the moment, whist my 5 is away getting painted I hope to start on my engine.

I will be keeping it carb (modded), running a 285 cam, T25 hybrid (through experience the T25 hybrid is my preferred choice, not necessarily the best depends on what your driving style is) front mount (behind bumper), ported and polished head, and forged interals so I can hopefully run big boost safely. It has to be done right because it's going to be my every day car

Your exactly right though, whist the engine is out you might aswell give it a rebuild to save time and cost in the future.

Have you also thought about just building a bottom end from an old block and keeping your car on the road at the same time? And if your engine is good, why not keep it as a spare and don't split the head and block just incase something happens in the future... You'll get a spare head and block to start from scratch for £50-100

I've never rebuilt a 5 engine if it's been running perfect, i'll take it out and swap it over with an engine I have built from an old head and block

[Nottswoody]

No prob mate

I'm in the exact same boat at the moment, whist my 5 is away getting painted I hope to start on my engine.

I will be keeping it carb (modded), running a 285 cam, T25 hybrid (through experience the T25 hybrid is my preferred choice, not necessarily the best depends on what your driving style is) front mount (behind bumper), ported and polished head, and forged interals so I can hopefully run big boost safely. It has to be done right because it's going to be my every day car

Your exactly right though, whist the engine is out you might aswell give it a rebuild to save time and cost in the future.

Have you also thought about just building a bottom end from an old block and keeping your car on the road at the same time? And if your engine is good, why not keep it as a spare and don't split the head and block just incase something happens in the future... You'll get a spare head and block to start from scratch for £50-100

I've never rebuilt a 5 engine if it's been running perfect, i'll take it out and swap it over with an engine I have built from an old head and block

thats exactly what im doing im picking a block and head up on monday off a member for £130 i wont be rushing this as funds will be getting tighter as the holidays are coming and im going to propose to the mrs on new years eve.. this also is my everyday car but i can do without it for a while if needed. same spec really just nothing forged..

[Mart]

Imho you don't need to go forged unless you're looking at running Glenn (Hi 5)/Stuart Clark/Dave Reed esque power levels.

Likewise, the o.e airbox isn't that restrictive - If you believe RR shpiel, my old Raider was running ~240hp/112mph traps at Pod with the o.e 'box in situ.

[Nottswoody]

Imho you don't need to go forged unless you're looking at running Glenn (Hi 5)/Stuart Clark/Dave Reed esque power levels.

Likewise, the o.e airbox isn't that restrictive - If you believe RR shpiel, my old Raider was running ~240hp/112mph traps at Pod with the o.e 'box in situ.

well i have a green air filter cossie 4x4 ic t25 tomcat at 1.4bar modded carb to suit and i boot mine everyday its been fine so far but the engine only came up 154bhp so im guessing cam is the way forward for more power?

[BILLY-R5GTT]

thats exactly what im doing im picking a block and head up on monday off a member for £130 i wont be rushing this as funds will be getting tighter as the holidays are coming and im going to propose to the mrs on new years eve.. this also is my everyday car but i can do without it for a while if needed. same spec really just nothing forged..

Spot on mate

[Mart]

well i have a green air filter cossie 4x4 ic t25 tomcat at 1.4bar modded carb to suit and i boot mine everyday its been fine so far but the engine only came up 154bhp so im guessing cam is the way forward for more power?

If you enjoy it as it is, why the need to up the power? I also wouldn't worry too much about RR power figures

A larger blower will naturally have a slower/delayed spool-up response (read will feel 'laggier' to drive), plus the characteristics of a hotter cam dictate the peak power range will shift up the rev scale, meaning you'll lose the low down 'grunt', and reduce the overall power band if you don't plan on rev'ing the engine much past the redline/wherever you rev it to now.

Horses for courses though - Depends what you want from the car?

Imho, improving the handling/braking of your GTT will net you a bigger grin factor, unless you're just after hp bragging rights...

[Nottswoody]

If you enjoy it as it is, why the need to up the power? I also wouldn't worry too much about RR power figures

A larger blower will naturally have a slower/delayed spool-up response (read will feel 'laggier' to drive), plus the characteristics of a hotter cam dictate the peak power range will shift up the rev scale, meaning you'll lose the low down 'grunt', and reduce the overall power band if you don't plan on rev'ing the engine much past the redline/wherever you rev it to now.

Horses for courses though - Depends what you want from the car?

Imho, improving the handling/braking of your GTT will net you a bigger grin factor, unless you're just after hp bragging rights...

I respect your knowledge bud I have lowered suspension with apex strats and grooved discs front and back and the 185mm discs in the front.. I'm after an all rounder really track and pod runner but this is my everyday car aswell it's quick now but is it ever enough? I get bored very easily and once one project is over I want another.. I'm off next week so rebuilding the steering out Iv only got the track rod ends left todo as Iv replaced everything else also have some new boots while I'm at it.. Then maybe a scrub underneath and a repaint ready for winter..

[Sparkie]

If you believe RR shpiel, my old Raider was running ~240hp/112mph traps at Pod with the o.e 'box in situ.

Power Engineering?