Front wheel position / alignment, weird one..???

[Ashy]

I've noticed this before but it now stands out more due to increasing my wheel size from15's to 16's. On one side of the car the position of the front wheels in their arch is different.

I have taken the a couple of pics to show you what I mean, see below:

Passenger side - Looks spot on



Drivers Side - Sitting too far back in the arch.




So just to confirm whats been done to the front end during the re-bulid.
- Front subframe taken from another car - no alignment issues when fitting.
- New front wishbones.
- Fully Poly-bushed.
- new ball joints, steering rack, track rod ends.
- New GAZ coil overs, rubbers, bearings, strut tops.

I've even had a full 4 wheel alignment done which didn't throw up any issues.

However, Measuring the wheel centres from front to back the passenger side measures exactly 2400mm where as the driver side is 2390mm so its 10mm further back...

Now I have had an issue on the back where one wheel looked to be further under the arch than the other, I managed to sort that by losening the rear beam bolts and jimmying the full beam over then re-tightening. Its now perfect.

I'm wondering if it could be a similar issue on the front subframe, is there enough play in the bolts to twist it so that the drivers side comes forward 5mm and the passenger side drops back by 5mm making the whell centre measurement 2395mm on both sides?

Its got me baffled, i was thinking maybe the car had had a bump before I got it but if it had then the new subframe wouldn't of lined up properly (assuming one side is bent back by 10mm...

Any ideas chaps?

[JRP]

has the car had a bump in the past? or hit a curb hard?

[R5MJH]

has the car had a bump in the past? or hit a curb hard?

exactly is the leg straight?

[Ashy]

Its got me baffled, i was thinking maybe the car had had a bump before I got it but if it had then the new subframe wouldn't of lined up properly (assuming one side is bent back by 10mm...

....

[Alastair]

Ashy - definitely an issue if your measurements centre to centre are correct, and looking at the pics they look weird. Most likely is a bent wishbone mate, they used to recon a second a lap after curbing at brands.

There is a couple of mm play in the bottom ball joints, and you will be able to get a few more on the strut top bolts (where your brace sits).

if i were you i would take the time to do this:
Get a large level bit of tarmac (check with spirit level) - a workshop is usually good.
Get a long tape measure and some chalk and a decent straight edge

Mark out all 4 wheels on the floor with a straight line (use a long line so you can measure toe in and out for each wheel)

Remove the car and then use a set square to work out which wheel is out and investigate.

Hope that helps mate, pm me if not clear ...

[Ashy]

Ashy - definitely an issue if your measurements centre to centre are correct, and looking at the pics they look weird. Most likely is a bent wishbone mate, they used to recon a second a lap after curbing at brands.

There is a couple of mm play in the bottom ball joints, and you will be able to get a few more on the strut top bolts (where your brace sits).

if i were you i would take the time to do this:
Get a large level bit of tarmac (check with spirit level) - a workshop is usually good.
Get a long tape measure and some chalk and a decent straight edge

Mark out all 4 wheels on the floor with a straight line (use a long line so you can measure toe in and out for each wheel)

Remove the car and then use a set square to work out which wheel is out and investigate.

Hope that helps mate, pm me if not clear ...

Yeah, I was thinking of taking it into work one Sunday and getting a chalk line out...

I wonder if it could be a wishbone?

[Scoff]

Are GT wishbones handed ? I know that some clio, etc, are. Could you have a LH wishbone on the right ?

[Nottswoody]

Yes they are bud did them a couple of weeks ago.. It's stamped into them

[Ashy]

Are GT wishbones handed ? I know that some clio, etc, are. Could you have a LH wishbone on the right ?

Are they handed by the little tag / lug that hangs down below and the half clip hooks through to hold the end of the anti-roll bar & bush in place?

[dangerous dave]

i remember this coming up on the 106/saxo forums, lots of peoples cars look pi55ed, never read to the end of the thread to find out why..

[Ashy]

i remember this coming up on the 106/saxo forums, lots of peoples cars look pi55ed, never read to the end of the thread to find out why..

[Tony Walker]

You can push the bushes different amounts to adjust caster, are yours perhaps pushed too far/not enough on one side

[Alastair]

Are they handed by the little tag / lug that hangs down below and the half clip hooks through to hold the end of the anti-roll bar & bush in place?

yes both ARB clips should be to the rear of the wishbone.

[Alastair]

You can push the bushes different amounts to adjust caster, are yours perhaps pushed too far/not enough on one side

Not with poly bushes IIRC? but worth checking anyway.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Just a quickie, what caster readings did you get Ashy?

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Not with poly bushes IIRC? but worth checking anyway.

There are two different types of poly bush Al, older pressed in tubes and bushes like originals and the bigger/fatter ones which were more popular.

[Ashy]

[Ashy]

[Alastair]

Ashy, might be worth getting your tape measure out and measuring how far forward the mounts for the wishbones are from the rear bolt holes on each side

[Tony Walker]

measure from the centre of the rear wheel to front wheel too, altho the rear axle can be bolted on out of alignment still worth checking and easy to do.

[Ashy]

measure from the centre of the rear wheel to front wheel too, altho the rear axle can be bolted on out of alignment still worth checking and easy to do.

However, Measuring the wheel centres from front to back the passenger side measures exactly 2400mm where as the driver side is 2390mm so its 10mm further back...

As above mate, just gona have a look under now with the tape measure and see if I can see anything obvious.

[Tony Walker]

ah right, it does look around 10mm out. can you measure the angle of the wishbone? were the bushes eccentric in any way? ive seen eccentric bushes as a mod on skylines and a few other cars.

[Ashy]

THink I've sussed it, photos on the way 2 secs....

[Tony Walker]

oooooohhhh drum roll.............................................. ..............................................

[Tony Walker]

strut deffinetly looks more vertical on one of them.

[Alastair]

CHOP CHOP PICS PLEASE!

[Ashy]

Just doing a bit cropping....

[Ashy]

OK here goes, see what you think

Passenger Side Front



Passenger Side Rear



Drivers Side Front



Drivers Side Rear

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Ah-Ha! the sleeves have moved!
Thats why I was asking about the caster angles.

Were the metal sleeves welded in place when the poly bushes were fitted?

[Ashy]

Heres the comparison...

Drivers Side Front on Mine



Drivers Side Front On another subframe.

[Ashy]

Were the metal sleeves welded in place when the poly bushes were fitted?

Even though the wishbones were brand new I had them shot blasted and powder coated before fitting the new bushes.... You can see that it hasn't moved since being powder coated so I can only assume it wasn't right to start with?

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Looks that way...

Best to get them off and compare them to some originals,

[Ashy]

Looks that way...

Best to get them off and compare them to some originals,

Yeah, think i'll change them both!

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Who did the bushes?

[Tony Walker]

simples

[Ashy]

Who did the bushes?

Me...

[Tony Walker]

you'll get to do them again now

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Hehe! At least you can put it to bed for a while now.

[Ashy]

At least I know the cars not bent after all that work!! cheers for the help

[Alastair]

Good news mate, clad it is an easy fix - and your handling will be much better for it too

[Ashy]

Quick Update - fitted another wishbone, which looks fine, dropped the car back down and although its much better it still isn't perfect. Wheel centres measure 2400mm and 2395mm.

So its moved it forward 5mm but its still 5mm short... Maybe I'll find a few mm by loosening the subframe and see if I can get the additional movment that way.

Or maybe I'm worrying over nothing... 5mm doesnt seem a lot over 2.4M

[Tony Walker]

maybe its the other side thats too long.

[philg]

Glad you sorted, fix that front bumper to while you are on to

[GTphil]

Glad you sorted, fix that front bumper to while you are on to

I noticed the bumper also, was trying to work out if it's suppost to sit like that or not, mine did that for years and I couldn't figure it out, turns out o had the little plastic brackets that bolt to the bumper the wrong way round.

Hope you get the wheel alignment issue sorted mate

[Ashy]

I noticed the bumper also, was trying to work out if it's suppost to sit like that or not, mine did that for years and I couldn't figure it out, turns out o had the little plastic brackets that bolt to the bumper the wrong way round.

Hope you get the wheel alignment issue sorted mate

Its becasue i've tried to squeeze a big front mount behind it without cutting the bumper and its just a little bit too tight so it holds the bumper off slightly. Its on my list of things to sort but its somewhere near the bottom!

I might measure the wheel centres on my other two 5's and see what they measure.

[Coops]

i'd do as above, get standard wishbones on BOTH sides and then measure and check, as both polybushed ones could be out, one to far forward, one too far back