A few changes as you can see :) Please give your feedback in this thread :)

[Ian S]

As discussed over the last year or so, I've added some sub folders to the classifieds, parts for sale.

Please comment if you think that's too many, not enough, categories need changing, refining, etc.

I don't know of a way to allow you to see their contents all in one list for those who'd like that. If someone knows how please say so

Also as discussed, I was looking at adding an extra 'cars for sale' that open to the non members, at general chat is. I didn't make sense of the forum permissions though. They say most or all of the forums are already open, which last time I looked, they weren't. I didn't see what makes the General chat different. So that's a work in progress.

[Haz]

looks easier to use. maybe a 'renault cars for sale' and 'other cars' if your doing seperate folders?

[Ian S]

Yeah, I just had a look through and while there's not all that many non Renault I think that's a good idea.

[TNT ANDY]

Seems to make sense narrows searching through 'job lots'

[car.crash]

Classifieds looks a mess. Wading through that lot will take ages we don't have a high volume of threads so why make the forum look like Clio sport.

[HAndy]

top job ian

better than trolling through the list of parts people put up for sale, will make it a lot easier looking for certain parts

has this new set up made it anymore more complex for people wishing to advertise items though, as it might have an adverse effect

just a thought

[Mart]

Sorry Ian, but it looks a mess to me.

Nothing wrong with how it originally looked/worked, imho.

[Slammed 66]

Perhaps instead of a cooling section, turbo section and engine internals section you could maybe wrap them all up into a single category.

Ie.

Bodywork
Interior
Mechanical
ICE ( I hate that term)

Might just tidy it up a bit.

Ross

[DaveMayGTT]

Perhaps instead of a cooling section, turbo section and engine internals section you could maybe wrap them all up into a single category.

Ie.

Bodywork
Interior
Mechanical
ICE ( I hate that term)

Might just tidy it up a bit.

Ross

Thats the way forward for people buying and selling. Splitting up your classifieds listing when you have a bulk load to put up would be a nightmare with too many folders. For people looking to buy im sure I'm not alone in that I look at pretty much every classified ad as even if im not searching for a part I might see something that looks better than what I have and get it. think Sko_dog hits the right balance of breaking it down without breaking it.

[Sol]

I agree with car.crash. There doesn't seem to be the quantity of threads selling needed to justify all the different sub-forums.

[Alan]

Can we get rid of the disclaimer at the top of the page?? It's so much effort scrolling down to see what's for sale

[LiamR]

Not enjoying the new set up at all. Sorry.

Far to complex and extensive in my opinion. It worked perfectly fine before.

It's not like there were hundreds of classifieds posted a day so the old system coped perfectly well. Please bring it back.

The new set up makes want to not even look through the classifieds.

Sorry for the negative opinion Ian. But its made a previous nice and simple method too complicated and fiddly.

[Ian S]

Thanks for the feedback.

I expected a split of opinion due to the different ways people use the classifieds.

I agree that it's look very messy. That's all we've got from this vB forum, it places the sub folders where it does.

Personally I rarely look at the classifieds and can't ever find anything there.

My ad for the wheels just drops to oblivion and there is no interest at all. Unless an item sells from page one then who's ever going to see it. I certainly can't trawl through 5 or 10 pages to see what's there. So for those like me, this is a much better way and will help to sell stuff by keeping on different page ones.

But....

As soon as I saw how it appeared last night I realised it would be a problem for those who go there and read them each day.

I wanted to be able to do both, a master list like we currently have and categories.

There was a longish thread about it quite a while ago and then it was apparent that we needed two ways to present the list.

I guess for now we have to make a compromise and not please everyone.

So how to please the most people is the trick

Personally, I like the categories as I only go there from time to time and look for something specific. I have it set to send me an email of every new wanted ad so I read all of those each day from my email inbox. I could do the same with sales too, like I had with the old site. One problem with this site is that you get a roundup after midnight and by then, sometimes, an item has already sold.

Would you all be happy enough and able to work with less groupings as has been suggested?

Unless one of you can find out if this vB can be set do show both? Then I can try and see if we can get that done.

[Ian S]

Can we get rid of the disclaimer at the top of the page?

No, we need to have that so we can ban people who abuse the rules. When we had the rules tucked away no-one ever saw them and it was a constant job to keep pointing out that there were rules.

[Scoff]

These search queries will return new activity in classifieds made in the last 2 weeks regardless of subcategory.

cars for sale:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/search.ph...y&days=14&f=21

parts for sale:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/search.ph...y&days=14&f=15

wanted:
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/search.ph...y&days=14&f=16

They could exist as buttons on the classified pages somewhere.

Would that help ? Where could the buttons live ? The pages are looking crowded.

[Ian S]

[Scoff]

Edited with the proposed links.

Will those 3 suffice ? As buttons below the disclaimer but above the listings ?

[Ian S]

Where could the buttons live ? The pages are looking crowded.

Maybe next to the 'New Thread' button near the top of each section??

By section I mean 'Parts for Sale'. So just below the list of sub-folders where there's a 'new thread' button.

Yes I think three buttons would be fine.

[LiamR]

My vote is with putting it back exactly how it previously was.

This new setup is messy and unusable. It makes me want to not use the rtoc as a forum for selling/buying parts for my 5. It will prob encourage me and others to head straight for eBay.

[Ian S]

It will prob encourage me and others to head straight for eBay.

And pay their fees? We know that RTOCers don't like to do that!

Looks like Scoffs new button should give you the current system, just with one extra click.

Personally with the wheels at least, I was headed straight to eBay now so I can actually sell stuff and people can actually see it.

The only people who benefit from the way it is now are those who read it every day or few. We have no idea of what the proportions are between those and the rest.

The rest of the members are just not even going to try to read if if they are suddenly presented with a 10 page list of random stuff each time they go there.

So yourself and a few others might feel eBay is now a better choice but we might end up with more stuff being shifted through the RTOC classifieds to more occasional users.

I really don't know though.

With the old site it was categorised and people have asked me if I can make this like the old one.

The old one fed every new ad to email as it was placed. I used that email arrangement to view the ads and scooped bargain after bargain.

One other major change to this new set-up is that they are threads with on going posts rather than a single ad. Something that eBay does not have.

Either way some people will be disgruntled with a change or no change.

As a club we have to look at what will get the best usage and sell the most items. It's not easy for me to judge that.

[Big Steve - Raider]

Sorry Ian

I'm with those who think it looks a bit messy.

TBH I thought the volume of adverts we have is managable with how we used to do it:

• Car for Sale
• Parts For Sale
• Wanted

[Ian S]

Thanks, there's no need for apologies

We have to try out new stuff or we'll never know

The original list view method hasn't changed by the way, it's the same as it was, there are simply some new folders in the main folder.

Before Scoff came up with the buttons I was going to suggest people just carried on using the existing list but also, if they wanted to, posted their add a sencond time in the folders. So that way, stuff that doesn't sell within a few days can remain resident on a 'page one' somewhere

So people who don't use the classifieds and one day decide to look at what wheels the RTOC has on sale, can simply go to the wheels folder and see them. Otherwise they go to the parts for sale, get p1ssed off, click off and go to eBay and do a search and then they're only look at what they want, wheels, not having to wade though endless pages of 90% other stuff.

[westy94]

I think the saying we poking for is if it ain't broke don't fix it

[Scoff]

I'll hang back from doing anything until there's an agreeable solution.

My 2p is that the new categories are too varied for the small volume of adds we have. It'll no doubt help those looking for specific items but a lot of guys will like to browse the for-sales just to see if anything takes their fancy. Clicking through many sub categories for this obvious is a pain in the ass.

Maybe if the page was re-ordered to show the sub categories below, leaving the mixed listings above as before.

[Ian S]

until there's an agreeable solution.

That'll never happen.

Maybe if the page was re-ordered to show the sub categories below, leaving the mixed listings above as before.

Is that possible? Would that be some custom coding?

I think the saying we're poking for is if it ain't broke don't fix it

For some users it is broken, has been for four years and needs to be fixed.

[Scoff]

With a similar theme to the custom events page I could write a custom classifieds page to help keep things organised and central. The page could, by default show the latest 10 or so for-sales and wanted's, have buttons to show all for-sales and all wanted's, and offer the sub categories for those that want to be particular. Maybe a search bar too.

Yes yes, it's a bit custom Ian but probably only 2/3hrs of work so not too much to loose if/when the VB gets upgraded.

[LiamR]

I know I keep going on but for me the classifieds worked perfectly before.

As mentioned above- I used to just have a general look and if anything took my eye I bought it. I def won't be doing this if it means trawling through loads of pages.

Surely for those that want specifics- they will be happy to mooch through two pages?

[LiamR]

Also I am def all up for improving the website but...

What was your inspiration to change the setup Ian? Were there high numbers of people complaining about how the classifieds are now?

[andybond]

I preferred it as before Ian as well.

Why not setup a vote?

[Mart]

Ian, let it go mate, just let it go

Seriously, it worked perfectly fine as it was before, imho

The only problem I see comes from when members start a 'for sale' thread for each individual item they're selling, instead of just clumping the lot into one thread. Nail those people for doing that, and the Classifieds will continue to work a treat

[Andyturbo!]

Please bring the old system back, this ones far too messy and hard to read. Old one worked just find

[Phoenix Autosport]

Sorry Ian

I'm with those who think it looks a bit messy.

TBH I thought the volume of adverts we have is managable with how we used to do it:

• Car for Sale
• Parts For Sale
• Wanted

have to say i completely agree, cars and wanted sections certainly dont warrant any splitting.

a good idea would be a classifieds rule of "one sale one post" so if you are selling a part or set of parts as one lot you do one post, then if you are say selling a pair of seats and a set of wheels you would split them to 2 posts so that you can browse the section for what you want by titles rather than reading through all the threads.

if this then gives rise to a volume of parts posts that is too great for one section then the parts section could be split into model specific sections for things like trim and a general section for parts like wheels that may fit more than one model, at least that way for say a 5 gt turbo you just need to browse its model specific section and the general section.

[Ian S]

So we have about 7 for and about 9 against.

See what I mean.

And in the last three posts we have Mart suggesting stopping people doing a post for every item and Phoenix suggesting that should be the way to do it.

And with 700, or so, members, how may use the classifieds?

[Ian S]

Are you all mainly complaining about the extra sub folders showing in the main page: https://www.rtoc.org/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Yeah I agree it looks I don't know if vB will allow those to be made to not appear there.

What was your inspiration to change the setup Ian?

The old site was set this way, but looked good, and there was a thread last year about the classifieds on this this site and slitting them into categories. And also whether to have them open to the public or closed as they are now. There seemed to be an kind of agreement that the only way was to have dual folders, one closed and one open. People could chose which to post in. People felt their ads don't reach a big enough market being just to RTOC members. It might pull in more people and increase the membership. Don't know that though. Some people join to see what cars are for sale and we'd lose those.

[Phoenix Autosport]

i suppose its all about how people use the section, some want everything in sections so that they can go direct to what they are looking for bypasing the rest and some like to browse.

its a pitty it cant be some kind of database like our own mini ebay without the fees so that people can view as they want and maybe run auctions but i would expect that to be some serious work to implement if even possible

[Phoenix Autosport]

just did a bit of research and there is actualy some free software for doing just that called weBid may be an option ?

[Ian S]

just did a bit of research and there is actualy some free software for doing just that called weBid may be an option ?

That's all beyond me at this time. But a separate software for classifieds is something I've suggested previously.

[Ian S]

So, as you can see, I've deactivated the extra sub forums. they're still there, just not on show.

Except wheels as that had an ad in and I might put mine in there as well, just to see if it works and I get a lot more views and a sale. Thereby proving the worth of categories.

And that's a good example. That ad from the 4 March was down on page 5. No-one will know these are still for sale. Would have been not looked at for maybe 4 months apart from that I bumped it in mid April.

And..

I found the way to make a forum that's open to the non members. But how will they ever find it? They can see it of they find it but are blocked when clicking on 'Classifieds'.

Another solution would be to move it to a place visible to non members. Or link to it from the open "chat" area. Where events are. For now I'm going to bed.

[Ian S]

Okay,

Scoff has made a bit of time to alter the classifieds links so they now point straight to the classifieds and that means

NON MEMBERS CAN NOW VIEW THE OPEN FOLDER, 'Cars - For sale - OPEN TO NON MEMBERS TO VIEW'.

So, what ever you post in there will be visible to anyone who's browsing the site and notices a classifieds section.

Non members can now also post replies. They can't start a thread.

I can easily change that though so that they have to register to post a reply.

So what do you think?

[Trevhib]

Great Ian. Let's see how it goes for a while.

[michael tierney]

i think an add can only run for say a month then be automatically deleted!!definetly unclutter alot of stuff thats probably sold!

[Trevhib]

Agreed.

Although some 'breaking' threads might take more than that to shift all the parts.

Maybe there should be an automated PM that goes from the site to the seller after one month saying "your advert will be deleted in 5 days as it is assumed you have sold your item/s or it is no longer for sale, unless you click this link, which will allow the advert to continue for another month."

??

[djinuk]

i think an add can only run for say a month then be automatically deleted!!definetly unclutter alot of stuff thats probably sold!

Id personally avoid that, simply because if its sold then it will drop down the list until it becomes unviewable (unless you go onto next pages) anyway.
Sometimes you may find you post up an item and need to bump it to be viewed.

[Ian S]

Maybe there should be an automated PM that goes from the site to the seller after one month saying "your advert will be deleted in 5 days as it is assumed you have sold your item/s or it is no longer for sale, unless you click this link, which will allow the advert to continue for another month.

I you can find out how do do that please let me know We can't add third party plugs in's and I doubt Scoff will want / have time to do more source code custom features.

if its sold then it will drop down the list until it becomes unviewable.

We have asked people to delete their add after it's sold. Many don't bother. Or they don't make a sale. Either way, eventually Dave deletes the ads.

But this is why I tried to do more categories, so people who don't look there every day could make sense of what's on offer instead of being greeted with a very long and annoying list that is almost entirely not what they are looking for.

Again, not possible to just 'switch on'. Scoff needed to do some small tweaks which he was going to, but it seems that we all forgot about it.

[Trevhib]

Ian, when ever is the answer - yes, that's a good idea, we know how to do it, it's simple, in fact we've just implemented it.

[Trevhib]

You could just include a statement in the classifieds rules that says "any advert that has had no activity (posts) on it in the last month", will be deleted by web admin.

[dangerous dave]

i delete each board back to 5 pages every now and again sold or not.. i leave the car adverts tho for future rtoc'ers to see them all..