Has anyone used this in there 5, my fives done over 160000 so was looking to use 10/60 oil but this is all I can got a hold of, what's your thoughts on this?
Has anyone used this in there 5, my fives done over 160000 so was looking to use 10/60 oil but this is all I can got a hold of, what's your thoughts on this?
Very very good oil, but a very fine top of the range grade. When I used in my 5 it just blew £60's worth out the turbo seals!!!!! Stick to a decent 10/40. Millers do do a nice part synthetic
I think I'd be able to get a millers 10/40 off the shelf, so do you think that would be ok for the standard engine and milageOriginally Posted by alex barker
i used to use it in my turbo 2, it was pretty good stuff.
10/60 or 10/40 ??i used to use it in my turbo 2, it was pretty good stuff.
10/40 the one u want. But get a decent part synthetic like millers
I use millers 10/60 fully synthetic, its good stuff.
10/60 works well if you're pushing hard.
I reckon the 10/60 has kept my bottom end in one piece for so long
10/60 i use it
This following is not my opinion. I'm merely relaying to you extensively documented fact as best as I can recall it that a few minutes Googling might find.
Unless you're really making some heat, a W60 is more than likely not needed as it might be too thick to lubricate properly.
Oil gets thinner as it gets hotter. So if you're making 450 BHP at 8500 rpm then it might be the right tool for the job.
In my 5GTT which lived at 7000 revs and often visited 7500 the sump oil temp on a 'sprint' in mid summer never went much above about 110°C. So a 40 is suitable for that. If it's much above 120°C then consider a 50. But how often and for how long is it up there.
I once used a 60, the Castrol single olefin oil, the engine and turbo appeared to be holding back, as they they had excessively thick oil in them, which they did!
Oil like the pure synthetic poly olefin oils, eg, Mobil1, don't get much thinner than they start so they they don't have much viscosity improver added and are better lubricants at those higher temperatures as well as lower ones. And they can last better as the VIs are not there to break down.
The only reason most oils are not a 0 as in 0 W40 is because manufacturers can't give them the temperature range that olefin oils naturally have. So to get a W40 the thinnest they can do is a 10, 15W50, etc. If I recall correctly the VI's they have to add prevent oils having a 0 rating.
0 W40 is about the same thickness at low and high temps or maybe the hot W40 is a bit thinner than the 0.
You can also consider detergents and the oils ability to withstand higher than normal pressures which might be it's shear resistance. Also there are Ester oils such at the Motul. You can add some Motul to your Mobil 1 to maybe make it better.
Oils would last a LOT longer were is not for the VI's breaking down. Maybe 100,000 miles or twice that between changes. Large lorry's for example and industrial machines. I forget exactly now. Google it.
I spent a couple of weeks reading about oil last year when it was coming up to oils change time. With all things properly considered, I went for Mobil1 0W40. In the Fiat 1.1 litre, 50,000 miles, quite often at 7200rpm.
If I was using a 160k mile 5GTT I'd probably have used 0 W40 with some Motul Ester oil added and carefully watched the oil levels and listened for any extra noises. If 40 was too thin as it was using oil then consider something thicker but that means not having the advantages of the 0 when cold.
Clearly though if the engine is badly worn then using a thick oil to try and compensate is not the ideal thing to do. If the turbo oils seals are worn then any oil will go past, it nonsense to try and use treacle thickness when the correct move is to renew the oil seals. The more excessively thick the oil the less well it lubricates. The idea is to match the operating temperature to the chosen oil rating.
i used 10w60, purely cos the engine was in the back and used a very small oil cooler as standard. you also had to push it right up the rev range for the turbo to work - hence why i figured thicker oil might be better at maintaining oil pressure up the rev range.
Yes I didn't mention oil pressure in that.
But if the oil is thick and the pressure is read near the pump it might show as high even if it's not circulating well and is low where it's needed.
Ive bought the millers 10/60 now so will be using this, I hope it doesn't have a bad effect on the engine but really want to change the oil as soon as i can as im doing alot of miles at the moment 400 plus a week mainly on the motorway, I did spend a fair bit of time trying to find a definitive answer but had no luck and the majority go for 10/60 or 15/50
I had been using Shell Helix Ultra 15w50 in my GTT and it has been pretty good. I've been given some Castrol Magnatec 10w40 so will probably give that a whirl.
In my MY98 WRX I've just changed over from Castrol Edge 5w30 to Motul Turbolight 10w40 and there's a lot less piston slap from cold, almost none and there seems to rev a little freer. The engine has done 240,000km (150,000miles) and rarely gets revved beyond 4000rpm (the wife drives it more than me).
I think you can run a less expensive oil if you change it more often but if you are taking the car on track it may pay to spend a little more on a slightly better grade.
Id only reccommend the 10/60 for a high power c1j. On anything mildly tuned stick to a decent 10/40 semi i.e mobil super 2000.
Id run it in a track car though, run the best oil you can afford especially if your using the standard rad/oil cooler setup.
With a standard engine and 16lbs boost i got 10/40 that hot on track it was filling the catch tank, pissing out the sump gasket and pouring blue smoke out the exhaust. When cooled down it was fine, there was/is nothing wrong with the engine as its still fitted in the van now. Ive never seen a drop in the catch tank with the millers 10/60 with the engine at a higher state of tune.
I'm with brigsy on this one
I might give this a try in mine. Where do you guys get it from?
On the last C1J, so a new build with closer mains and big ends tolerances and new gaskets, I used 0w40 Mobil 1 but not on a track. 24psi boost, max sump oil temp as I said earlier and only occasionally at that usually staying at 90°C and took about 15 mins of lane driving to reach that, there was no smoke from the exhaust, no leaks from anywhere except a weep from the crank / flywheel seal due to Gosnays grinding it so it was too narrow, and very little oil in the catch take, but it was 24psi and the liners were bored a bit so I presume there was fair bit of blow past and crank case pressure.
For normal road use the 0W40 was way better than the Castrol W60 or all the 10W40's I used. When fully cold the engine and turbo felt like it was already warm.
And I had a sump temp gauge. With no gauges you are just making guesses. The hottest I ever saw that was perfectly OK for a W40.
But if it had been going above 120°C for more than a few minutes on a county lane or whatever then I'd have considered a W50.
If the compromise has to be make so the car is set up primarily for track lapping use then get a gauge or two and see what the temps are and select the appropriate W rating. Or get a better oil cooler?
A man I knew with a Sierra Cossie said that with the Mobil 0W40 after a prolonged motorway journey he'd get a small puff of exhaust smoke when slowing at the roundabout where he turned off that he didn't get with the 15W50.
Will you get it hot enough for 10/60 alex ? If you're not chucking oil out the breathers and exhaust as it is then stick with the thinner stuff. But if it's a slack engine with big ring gaps, no stem seals, and one which tends to get hot quickly then 10/60 is the way to go.I might give this a try in mine. Where do you guys get it from?
I just don't want people to start chucking in a W60 (then suffering damage?) just because Glenns car uses it.
People tend to think biggest is best but it's horses for courses
Always used 10/40 in my R5 GT Turbos and RS Turbos but use 10/60 in my Cosworths. Just my personal preference. Only as the cosworths have bigger horse power.
Looking at: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-402-motul-engine-oil.aspx
Motul oils 300V double Ester oil tech specs:
For a 0W20
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 8.0 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 40.1 mm²/s
For a 5W30
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 11 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 65 mm²/s
For a 5W40
Viscosity at100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 80.8 mm²/s
I'm only guessing but this might be thicker at 40°C due to more viscosity improvers.
For a 15W50
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 17.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 128.1 mm²/s
For a 20W60
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 22.9 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 170 mm²/s
So the point I'm making for people who think and say that 0 is too thin is that the 0 rated are twice as thick at 40°C as even the W60 is at 100°C.
And the W60 is more than four times as thick as the 0 rated at 40°C.
What they say about the 20W-60: able to absorb fuel dilution in the oil and maintains high oil pressure. Engine can run at very high temperature.
It's another point to consider; wide bore tolerances and blow past and running rich can put a lot of fuel in the oil and rapid wear then occurs.
For the 8100 X-max 0W-40 100% Synthetic
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.3 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 74.9 mm²/s
Twice as thick at 40°C as their 0 rated 300V oil!!
What they say about this 0 W40: Improves oil flow at start up, faster oil pressure build up, faster rev raisings and faster operating temperature reach.
There's evidently plenty more to consider than just the viscosity. It makes selecting the optimum oil a tricky thing.
10w/40 should be sufficient for most C1J's. 10w (or 15w)/50 if proper pushing-on on track.
Imho, fwiw
I certainly wouldn't use oil or anything else for that matter just because someone else might use it
I just don't want everyone to start chucking in a W60 (then suffering damage?) just because Glenns car uses it.
People tend to think biggest is best but it's horses for courses
My oil temp reaches about 120c on track which is fairly toasty I think you'll agree
That said I've now fitted an oil cooler so the temp really shouldn't reach that high anymore - we'll find out at ND!
+1
A lot of people would though.A lot of people can't work out who's right / telling the truth so they just toss a coin or follow the tallest or loudest or the one that shouts first.
I have tested and used all sorts of oil and for track and pod use I find a 10-60 does the job, I've had smoke and leak issues with the 5/10/15-40's. also used to use 5/10-50 as well which worked nicely but still occasionally puffed smoke when jam hot so now on the 60 grade and its been great. in fact just bought some more for the new build to go in after run in
oh, sump oil temps hit around 110-120 according to my highly accurate Renault gauge on track/pod use
I use 10w60. Although not Millers, I think its Carlube and I get this from Motorparts at a decent price, as my uncles has a trade account - More than happy to share the discount with other club members?
There is quite a bit on which oil to use by the "wizard", makes an interesting read but comes down to what set up you have, how hard you drive and what you can afford!
stuff I have is Castrol edge, not millers, but same 10-60 grade
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