Re: RTOC CAR RAFFLE - WIN A Phase 1 Renault 5 GT Turbo

**Lomo** · 15-08-2011, 08:37

If we don't sell all the tickets before the World Series I think its fair to say we wont be drawing it at World Series. The aim of the draw was to try and keep the car in the club. We'll just need to decide on another draw date. BUT remember, the car has just been taxed so the longer it goes on the less tax left on the car. It was renewed on August 1st.

We bought the tax with the RWS draw in mind.

On another note, if the minimum number of tickets sell, the more chance those who have entered have of winning the car! So come on, get those tickets bought!

**Lomo** · 15-08-2011, 08:38

Originally Posted by Purple_rob

I totally agree!.

I've been waiting for clee to get back to me on another ticket as the shop has some of my ££. Is he on hols?

Rob

I have no idea!

**clee** · 15-08-2011, 09:02

Not on holiday , just busy trying to put an A610 back together

Yes Rob , I'll send you another ticket you just need to send £7.50 to shop@rtoc.org .
Not sure I will make WSR ,we'll need to decide if we draw the raffle at a later date .I can't see us shifting 50+ in the next 5 days .
It's the 20th anniversary of the A610 and RAOC are trying to get 20 cars there .If it goes well this week I'll bring the one here down on the Saturday to bed the engine in

**James_Surridge G1 5 GTT** · 15-08-2011, 12:49

Does the raffle continue untill all tickets are sold??

**clee** · 15-08-2011, 13:23

Until we sell 125

**dickiegtt** · 15-08-2011, 19:38

C'mon lads only 50+ tickets, in it to win it

Lets give her a new home in the club asap!

**Adey aka Ewok** · 15-08-2011, 21:34

Originally Posted by clee

Not on holiday , just busy trying to put an A610 back together

Yes Rob , I'll send you another ticket you just need to send £7.50 to shop@rtoc.org .
Not sure I will make WSR ,we'll need to decide if we draw the raffle at a later date .I can't see us shifting 50+ in the next 5 days .
It's the 20th anniversary of the A610 and RAOC are trying to get 20 cars there .If it goes well this week I'll bring the one here down on the Saturday to bed the engine in

Paul came round this eve seeing if I could take his alpine down to this....

**mogster242** · 18-08-2011, 19:12

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

just bought 2

52 to go...

**Lomo** · 18-08-2011, 21:06

Now that the site is back up to speed don't forget tickets are still available!

**Lomo** · 18-08-2011, 21:07

Originally Posted by mogster242

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

just bought 2

52 to go...

47

I've sold 5 this end that haven't been registered in the club shop as yet

**Lomo** · 19-08-2011, 13:26

I'll be bringing some tickets with me this weekend (Sunday) to the Renault World Series if anyone would like to buy off some. PM me so I can put them aside for you.

**Purple_rob** · 19-08-2011, 17:20

[QUOTE=clee;229520]Not on holiday , just busy trying to put an A610 back together

Yes Rob , I'll send you another ticket you just need to send £7.50 to shop@rtoc.org .

Clee, money is with you, please could you allocate and send another.

Thanks!

**clee** · 19-08-2011, 17:27

Yes ,will do .
I will be on holiday until next Friday though so don't panic it will be sent when I get back .

**tom t** · 19-08-2011, 22:16

i wana buy a ticket, but am thinking it will be easier to get one off you 2moro lomo? How many need to be shifted to make it happen 2moro? If they all get sold 2moro i take it the draw will go ahead? i will pm you regarding a ticket

**Lomo** · 19-08-2011, 23:43

Originally Posted by tom t

i wana buy a ticket, but am thinking it will be easier to get one off you 2moro lomo? How many need to be shifted to make it happen 2moro? If they all get sold 2moro i take it the draw will go ahead? i will pm you regarding a ticket

Im not there tomorrow Im afraid and because of the problems we've had with the website etc it doesn't look like the draw will be taking place tomorrow. The closing date will be finalised soon though and announced straight away.

**Lomo** · 20-08-2011, 20:24

Just a last quick shout to anyone going to RWS tomorrow to drop me a pm if you want me to put a side any raffle tickets for you. I'll be bringing them with me for members to purchase. I already have a couple of reservations but still have a few tickets left if your going..

See you all tomorrow

**Gibbo69** · 20-08-2011, 21:04

Originally Posted by Lomo

Just a last quick shout to anyone going to RWS tomorrow to drop me a pm if you want me to put a side any raffle tickets for you. I'll be bringing them with me for members to purchase. I already have a couple of reservations but still have a few tickets left if your going..

See you all tomorrow

I will have another one to help the club matey

See ya in the morning

**Lomo** · 20-08-2011, 21:21

Originally Posted by Gibbo69

I will have another one to help the club matey

See ya in the morning

Will do mate, 6 bells, Little Chef!

**Alastair** · 20-08-2011, 22:29

Originally Posted by Lomo

Im not there tomorrow Im afraid and because of the problems we've had with the website etc it doesn't look like the draw will be taking place tomorrow. The closing date will be finalised soon though and announced straight away.

Ok so what have the committee decided? I assume that the plan is to extend the closing date until only the minimum number of tickets are sold, then the raffle drawn? Otherwise that would be hugely unfair to those that purchased them already?

Am interested to hear what the plan is. Surely this has already been discussed and the plan finalised???

Also BZ to the committee for sorting the website out, much better.

**Lomo** · 20-08-2011, 23:15

Originally Posted by Alastair

Ok so what have the committee decided? I assume that the plan is to extend the closing date until only the minimum number of tickets are sold, then the raffle drawn? Otherwise that would be hugely unfair to those that purchased them already?

Am interested to hear what the plan is. Surely this has already been discussed and the plan finalised???

Also BZ to the committee for sorting the website out, much better.

Alastair, with everything that has gone on lately with regards to the website it has been difficult for us to make a decision. Rest assured though the decision will be the fairest way we can do it to those who have already purchased their ticket and supported the club and will be announced as soon as it has been made.

**boysie** · 21-08-2011, 17:03

just bought 2, fingers crossed

**Ian S** · 21-08-2011, 18:29

Originally Posted by Alastair

is the plan is to extend the closing date until only the minimum number of tickets are sold, then the raffle drawn? Otherwise that would be hugely unfair to those that purchased them already?

There were 400 tickets placed in the shop and the hope was to sell all of those. We said that if more than the minimum were sold before the world series event then the raffle would take place then.

By closing sales and drawing before 400 are sold that could be said to be unfair to those who'd not purchased but were planning to.

Most or all of the earlier purchasers must have been aware than the minimum number was probably not going to be met by this weekend so their hope of their ticket(s) being amongst a smaller number of tickets would have evaporated when it was fairly apparent that the raffle was not happening this weekend.

We have to decide whether to hold out for a full sale or close early. That is going to depend on the rate of sales I expect. If they start selling well we'll probably wait. I'd sales totally stop then sooner or later we have to do something.

**Rinzler** · 21-08-2011, 18:38

just bought my ticket..

Good luck y'all

**Trevhib** · 22-08-2011, 11:54

Originally Posted by Ian S

There were 400 tickets placed in the shop and the hope was to sell all of those. We said that if more than the minimum were sold before the world series event then the raffle would take place then.

By closing sales and drawing before 400 are sold that could be said to be unfair to those who'd not purchased but were planning to.

Most or all of the earlier purchasers must have been aware than the minimum number was probably not going to be met by this weekend so their hope of their ticket(s) being amongst a smaller number of tickets would have evaporated when it was fairly apparent that the raffle was not happening this weekend.

We have to decide whether to hold out for a full sale or close early. That is going to depend on the rate of sales I expect. If they start selling well we'll probably wait. I'd sales totally stop then sooner or later we have to do something.

I have to say that's all a bit slap-dash.

What this says to folk who bought tickets early was that if certain things had transpired (125 tickets sold by WSR), their chances of winning would have increased hugely (as the raffle would have been drawn from just 125 tickets, rather than 'up to 400'). Now because that didn't happen (by chance), their odds are lengthening back somewhere between 125 and 400. This is not good organisation.

So where will the line be drawn, as selling 400 tickets is unrealistic based on the number sold so far. I mean how many people are still planning to buy tickets at this point as they have been on sale for ages? And how long should existing ticket holders have to wait from this point to get an outcome?

For me, once the 125 are sold, plus a few, so the club can recoup all costs, this raffle should be drawn. I'd certainly not purchase a ticket @ £20 a time without knowing what my odds of winning are. 1 in 125? 1 in 250? 1 in 400? Will it be drawn this month, by Christmas, next summer?

Come on, be fair to those who've already purchased (and those considering taking part), and set the goal posts down in one place.

**Ian S** · 22-08-2011, 12:06

That's all fair comment Trev, I thought it had mentioned from the beginning that there were 400 tickets.

Some people were confident that they'd sell quickly and easily pass the minimum required before RWS. Maybe the site slowness did hamper that or that was an optimistic view. Either way, what to do now. The club did not enter to make a loss. It may take days, weeks or months just to get the minimum. No-one can guess that.

So all we can do is give it time and see what happens.

If sales to members don't get there then we have to consider whether to sell to non members, which might inc scrap dealers, or refund the tickets and keep the car to take to shows, or sell the car.

No-one can have any definite answers right now.

**TrixNFlix** · 22-08-2011, 12:32

I don't want to sound too negative but i think trev is right you can't keep moving the goalposts. I would not be happy if you opened this raffle up to non rtoc members.

**Matt@CodeRedMotorsports** · 22-08-2011, 12:32

Hmmm not very well thought out boys, for that reason I'm out.

**car.crash** · 22-08-2011, 12:52

i would happily buy a ticket but i dont want to have to drag the car to all meets and shows due to work and money commitments and this is why myself and a few others i know have not purchased one.
your now saying you might sell them to anyone including scrap dealers? im sure many more members would buy them if you were less strict with the terms of purchasing them.

**Big Steve - Raider** · 22-08-2011, 13:02

Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

..for that reason I'm out.

Thanks Dragon!

**Penfold aka The Dealer** · 22-08-2011, 13:11

The club brought this car to give its members a chance of owning a good car for £20...we had hoped with over 600 members we would sell a minmum of 125 tickets (covers the cost of the car).

We put a maximum limit of 400 tickets on the auction & have always said if wereach 125 ticket sales the draw would be done at RWS... If not as soon as 125 tickets have sold...

If people want there money back they can, and theire ticket will be removed from the draw...

I dont see the problem, ofcourse we could refund everybody and just sell the car on ebay etc & hope to get the money back... But the club were trying to do something new, exciting for its members...

**car.crash** · 22-08-2011, 13:17

so why cant i have the car and enjoy it when i want to and sell or modify it as i want to?

**Penfold aka The Dealer** · 22-08-2011, 13:26

Originally Posted by car.crash

so why cant i have the car and enjoy it when i want to and sell or modify it as i want to?

I think the T&C's are more the clubs wishes rather than set in stone...

We would hate to see somebody like nayls

win it and break it for parts... But end of the day if you win it, its your car, your name on the log book....

**car.crash** · 22-08-2011, 13:29

if thats the case i will buy one, but i doubt it will be at all the shows if i win. if im given the nod to do as i wish i will buy one and im sure others will.

**5teve L** · 22-08-2011, 13:53

TBH Marc, I couldn't see what the club could do about it after you had won it, the car is yours to do as you wish IMO. & yes, the T&C could have been worded a bit better.

**car.crash** · 22-08-2011, 13:55

legally i could do what i wanted but im not out to piss everyone off over it when it doesnt fully meet the T&C's

**Trevhib** · 22-08-2011, 14:43

Originally Posted by Penfold aka The Dealer

The club brought this car to give its members a chance of owning a good car for £20...we had hoped with over 600 members we would sell a minmum of 125 tickets (covers the cost of the car).

We put a maximum limit of 400 tickets on the auction & have always said if wereach 125 ticket sales the draw would be done at RWS... If not as soon as 125 tickets have sold...

If people want there money back they can, and theire ticket will be removed from the draw...

I dont see the problem, ofcourse we could refund everybody and just sell the car on ebay etc & hope to get the money back... But the club were trying to do something new, exciting for its members...

I think you will sell 125 tickets to members and the club should make the covering of costs its top (and only other) priority.

On the second point, what is the point of a maximum limit of 400 ticket sales if as soon as 125 are sold the draw is made? It's because drawing after 125 tickets are sold was not the original intention. Then it was. Then it kind of isn't again. No wonder some people are confused and existing ticket holders a bit concerned.

I don't see anyone asking for their money back. I see people asking for fairness to those who've already bought tickets and some common sense from the RTOC leadership on how to conclude the raffle from this point in time.

I think the raffle should be to RTOC members only (the winner will not be bound by any legal requirement, it's up to them how much moral baggage they attach themselves). I also believe the club will achieve 125 tickets in a reasonable time-frame and therefore should not be offering tickets to non-members of any kind.

We just need the committee to say definitely that 125 tickets is the target (or however many more to cover associated club costs), and do a count down/update as the remaining tickets sell (as a way of promoting and expediting the process). That way, everyone who has entered will get a sense of how long it's going to be until the draw happens.

This raffle is a great idea, it is new and it is exciting. We just want to see it run the right way and drawn asap.

**Big Steve - Raider** · 22-08-2011, 15:12

Originally Posted by Trevhib

This raffle is a great idea, it is new and it is exciting. We just
want to see it run the right way and drawn asap.

Get a ticket bought then Trev & we'll be able to start the tombola turning!!

The Committee created this raffle to try something new & give the opportunity for a keen committed member to win a Minty Fresh OE Phase 1 GTT.

What we didn't want to do was just make money. We could have sold the tickets to any Thomas Richard or Harry but right from the beginning we all thought it would be a good idea to raffle it off to Club Members Only.

To see it raffled off to anyone & then appearing on e-Bay/Pistonheads would be a real kick in the balls because we want a member to win such a car for £20!?

We didn't start this raffle with the intention of the club losing money so just printed 400 tickets, a closing date and then put them in the shop. We were expecting to sell MORE than the 125 to cover costs and then make the draw. Unfortunately though that's just not the case (thus far) so will have to continue to sell the tickets until the magic figure is reached.

If we draw the prize early without all of the tickets sold then that's just going to cost the club money & I don't see why we should do that.

**car.crash** · 22-08-2011, 15:15

or ammend rule 12 and watch the tickets sell.

**Big Steve - Raider** · 22-08-2011, 15:17

Originally Posted by Trevhib

I'd certainly not purchase a ticket @ £20 a time without knowing what my odds of winning are. 1 in 125? 1 in 250? 1 in 400?

So does this mean that you only purchase a raffle ticket when you have checked out the odds of winning & make a calculated decision at that point??

You have to be in it to win it.

**Big Steve - Raider** · 22-08-2011, 15:19

Originally Posted by car.crash

or ammend rule 12 and watch the tickets sell.

12. The car will be part of the Renault Turbo Owners Club 'Show Car' group (more info to follow) and will be required at 2012 events such as National Day, Frog Of Pod & Renault World Series (subject to new owners availability)

If you can't make it, you can't make it? Simple

I've not read the b1oody T's & C's, I'd just like to win a Phase 1 GTT!

**Big Steve - Raider** · 22-08-2011, 15:22

Originally Posted by car.crash

if thats the case i will buy one, but i doubt it will be at all the shows if i win. if im given the nod to do as i wish i will buy one and im sure others will.

If you want to buy a ticket & then sell it or break it then it's up to you.

It's just not in-keeping with the whole spirit of the reason we started the raffle.

However, the committee would not be responsible for any S1agging you get for just moving it on to make yourself a few bucks!

**Mart** · 22-08-2011, 15:29

125 tickets @ £20 a pop = £2500 (what the car was originally advertised at).

400 tickets @ £20 = £8000. Nice profit

**Bigfoot** · 22-08-2011, 15:40

Originally Posted by Big Steve - Raider

However, the committee would not be responsible for any S1agging you get for just moving it on to make yourself a few bucks!

Which I dont know how many this includes, but if I put money to the tickets and won there would be no chance in me keeping the car so would have to sell it on therefore I wont buy the ticket in the first place which is a shame as its a great car and with some TLC will bring it up like new and will last on the road for a very long time if looked after.

**Lomo** · 22-08-2011, 17:22

I wish there was a facepalm smiley. (and thats just generally not towards any one post)

It clearly says in rule 12 that its subject to owners availability so as a club we cant force anyone to attend an event. It was put in to somehow encourage the winner to show it off as the car is. There was talk of having show cars next year at RTOC events but that seems to have fallen flat on its face. We wanted this phase 1 to be part of that group of cars as it clearly says in rule 12.

I believe the website has played a BIG part in the failure to sell enough tickets and I did smile when the day it all came back on line with thanks to Gordon, 3 tickets were sold within 5 minutes. Maybe that was coincidence I dont know.

I can honestly say I will never vote for this raffle to go to non members as it was never the intention. Its the type of car this club needs in it, and Im sure the new owner will appreciate that when he or she comes to collect it.

The reason we had a minimum number on the ticket sales was to make the money back on the purchase of the car. That is why it was 125!
The reason we put a maximum on the car of 400 tickets was because if we reached that number the club would of covered the costs of the purchase of the car, and both the National Day & Frog Of Pod. I cant be more honest than that!! Even 150 would of made up a small fraction of the loss of the two days but at least its something. (25x20=500 towards the losses is better than nothing!!)

My view on the raffle as it stands now is to leave it running until 125 tickets are sold and then run it for a remaining ONE WEEK so people have enough time to understand what is happening. We took a chance hoping they would sell before World Series and a combination of things put stop to that.

**Lomo** · 22-08-2011, 17:24

Originally Posted by TrixNFlix

I don't want to sound too negative but i think trev is right you can't keep moving the goalposts. I would not be happy if you opened this raffle up to non rtoc members.

Its not going to happen

**Lomo** · 22-08-2011, 17:25

Originally Posted by car.crash

or ammend rule 12 and watch the tickets sell.

It doesn't need amending does it? It clearly says subject to owners availability. If you cant attend a particular event you cant attend.

**Hoolio** · 22-08-2011, 17:54

What was the "show cars plan"? That seems to be something that has not been discussed here before "falling flat on its face" seems a pretty good idea though judging by the quality of members cars that did turn up this weekend maybe not needed.

**Nayls** · 22-08-2011, 18:03

Originally Posted by Penfold aka The Dealer

I think the T&C's are more the clubs wishes rather than set in stone...

We would hate to see somebody like nayls

win it and break it for parts... But end of the day if you win it, its your car, your name on the log book....

Get a grip! i broke 2 cars! plenty of members have broken more than 2!

**Lomo** · 22-08-2011, 18:19

Originally Posted by Hoolio

What was the "show cars plan"? That seems to be something that has not been discussed here before "falling flat on its face" seems a pretty good idea though judging by the quality of members cars that did turn up this weekend maybe not needed.

It was something a member had touched upon with a couple of us for maybe trying next year and would involve using a good example of each of the models of Renault Turbo to be put on an 'official club stand'. Perhaps 'flat on its face' was a little to strong but I haven't heard anything else since.

**Penfold aka The Dealer** · 22-08-2011, 18:30

Originally Posted by Nayls

Get a grip! i broke 2 cars! plenty of members have broken more than 2!

Gary, you know I am only messing with you.... If you want me to delete the comment pm me and i will.

Thread Tools