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  1. #101
    Committee, Moderator Matt Cole's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    • Car boot sale or swaps, (parts only, old porn mags, the wife etc), beer and camping


    • RTOC rolling road day shoot out (organised by the club) beer and camping


    • Camping, beer and animal fiddling (with family, kids activities, bouncy castle and dodgems etc)


    • Rtoc go kartin (organised by the club) beer and food could be over 2 days.


    • Several AGM's throughout the year followed by beer and food.

    Just some of my ideas, all could be reasonably cheap for the club, and could alternate with a track day every other year.

  2. #102
    Non-member philg's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning View Post
    • Car boot sale or swaps, (parts only, old porn mags, the wife etc), beer and camping

    • RTOC rolling road day shoot out (organised by the club) beer and camping

    • Camping, beer and animal fiddling (with family, kids activities, bouncy castle and dodgems etc)

    • Rtoc go kartin (organised by the club) beer and food could be over 2 days.

    • Several AGM's throughout the year followed by beer and food.
    Just some of my ideas, all could be reasonably cheap for the club, and could alternate with a track day every other year.

    I hope there is a few local events this year, go carting, r/r day etc

  3. #103
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    Saying he doesn't have time because he is getting married...This is completely not the case!
    So why has he not organised any(?) events? Why is it that Lee and Dawn are organising the ND? Why is it that I had to enter events to the calender? In fact, incredibly, after several weeks or more of being on the committee, Steve asked was there an email address for events!!!! I'd spent quite a bit of time giving him all the info when he was appointed and he'd not collected ANY club events emails. I wasn't just me that was aghast. If it were not for Ashy asking about the ND in Jan there possibly wouldn't be one. That's when we contacted Miller to find out if he'd done anything about it and was told months earlier he'd asked Steve to do it. Why is it that you're taking Steves lack of involvement with the committee personally? It plain for all to see that you've not got a clue what you're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    We have been to a few curry meets, ace cafe, will be attending the usual social events
    Gee whiz you don't get it at all. We want someone to ORGANISE OFFICIAL RTOC EVENTS all over the UK, and loads of them, not just turn up and join in with a few!!! Or for that matter only organise the ones you want to go to.

    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    What events will you be attending this year Ian?
    I'm not the events organiser. My work as Treasurer is done from home, making sure sufficient money is where is needs to be to pay the various bills. If we get credit card facilities it'll be me that spends hours and hours making it happen. My work as web server, email server, website and general infrastructure overseer is done from home. I also organise the advertising get the designs done and liaise with the magazines. Fed them a few mini feature items for publication. I also take and deal with various member and non member enquiries about various aspects or problems. I also poke around in the shop from time to time and wrote and re-list the eBay ad for the dials, made the fuller dials fitting guide that in the articles section, previously wrote nearly 30 articles, update the many various articles. Spent a week or more 'properly' doing the latest buyers guide after Steves good start. Sadly they published the rough draught that Steve sent them instead of the final version. The list goes on and on. And I've scaled back a lot in the last couple of years mainly due to on-going bad health problems. Many of these mentioned items individually are trivialities, but together they add up and are on-going. It might be the case that I put more time in per month, and maybe even some weeks, that Steve has so far with official business since he's been on the committee. It's fair to say though that were I not un-well I would expect to have a lot less time available for this club than I've had. I'm one of those people who naturally notice things that need doing and are being left and tend to do them myself. I've been trying to do less for this club in recent times as I need to do more for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    I'm guessing none
    I've put in 60 hours per week, for weeks or even months at a time for this club in the past. And I'm not talking about going to some social events. It laughable to say that's how you're helping the club out at management level, just by turning up to a few socials.

    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    Steve started to research ND
    Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday. That was done in 2007 with the FCS and we got a lot of complaints that members wanted their own exclusive day. The committee in general felt that was what they still wanted and should be done this year. By extreme contrast, when Miller first got the job in 2006, he phoned all the tracks, examined all the options, amassed data and presented me and then other club officers and then the new committee, that I and he had just formed, with all that data tabulated, high lighted, costs, benefits, disadvantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    So what do you do for this club... As far as I can see absolutely nothing!
    As far as the inner machinations of the RTOC goes, you're a clueless ignorant bystander who's now chosen to lock horns with someone who's been a leading figure, and at times a 'rock', at the core of running this club for nearly 10 years. Sometimes a committee members spouse does know what goes due to the depth of their partners involvement. This is evidently not the case here. I for one expected you'd have seen the committee boards and how active I am on there, for years it's been just about the only place I post and am doing so nearly every day. In a way it's a shame the members don't get to see that area of the club as an educated understanding of who does what over the last 4 1/2 years at least would then be possible and I'm not talking about just myself but in general. There are other key workers who are holding things together which is not apparent from members forums.

    I'd still be very happy for Steve to delivery the goods regarding organising 'official' events and small local ones. We all want him to but it's May now and it's just not happening. I don't know why. He cites lack of time. On the plus site he organised the orange dials group buy, though that was motivated by his own need, and non official RTOC Nurburgring trip(s) but again motivated by his own need. He did start the buyers guide and I've seen some thread asking members who wants to attend something but it's just too little. Several committee have made it plain they were very disappointed with the lack of events organised. Even if only 5 members turn up, as least it's an organised club presence rather than just those 5 parking in the out field and being spectators.

    Then Enfield Motor Pageant local to me is ideal for concourse and interesting old cars like this club is brimming with and has many clubs there. There was some of Renault club there last time I went with cars from the 50's with an early C1J type engine. A weekend event, with auto jumble, traders, shows but no RTOC. There are shows like this all over the UK. This club has evidently withered badly in the last two years. It needs events organiser(s) to take it places and make other people know it exists. Steve has the car but it seems not the time.

    As far as talking bluntly goes, yes I'm aware of my plain speaking, and for the larger part, lack of ability to couch it so as to not offend some peoples stunted and or mixed up emotions. People who know me, however, know that I'm usually not being malicious but far from that.

  4. #104
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by REBEL GT TURBO View Post
    I think we need more local meets, We should be meeting at least once a month in our local areas....
    I wonder how much the lack of well organised area reps / area members mapping / search for the last three years has had a negative impact?

  5. #105
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    Why is it all cloak & dagger about Miller? Is he still President or not??
    The fact is, we don't know. Sounds slack but his lack of being ND organiser is what is felt the most.

    The 'President' role is almost a name only thing. Just a paper figurehead.

  6. #106
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoolio View Post
    I was wondering when the **** was going to hit the fan after Ian's post.without commenting on the content I think its totally counter productive to have to top brass knocking bits off each other on the boards. Also surely there should be a method which positions are filled/vacated other than some kind of putsch(?)
    Sometimes things just need to be brought out into the open. It's the members club after and how else will they know that cracks have appeared and the few working committee are straining. We keep saying we need more support but members think they see that all is fine.

    The club to a greater extent revolves around the website and we've have problems for years regaining the features the old site had. I should point out that the old site was lost partly due to apathy from so many of the committee. Just not interested until it went belly up.

  7. #107
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday
    Just for clarification, it wasn't a case of us joining in with another club's (or even joe public) trackday. It was more so that we purchase all the places for a given trackday from one of the many trackday companies out there (BookaTrack, EasyTrack, Circuit Days, Track-action Online, etc etc), sell the places to rtoc members, which will still then effectively make it an rtoc-only event/trackday, but at a cheaper cost to what 'hiring' Mallory costs us.

    As a bonus, that then opens up the possibility of holding the event/National Day at any UK trackday location, rather than Mallory.

    Of course, it comes with a risk that if we didn't end up selling a good majority of the tickets, we'd be somewhat out of pocket, but perhaps a 'sale or return' scheme could be implemented with the trackday company, or we offer any left-over spaces to other clubs/joe public.

  8. #108
    Non-member Mart's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    The fact is, we don't know. Sounds slack but his lack of being ND organiser is what is felt the most.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    The 'President' role is almost a name only thing. Just a paper figurehead
    On the basis of that, and Miller's lack of interest (or whatever it is) these days, maybe doing away with the President title would be for the best, and just have the Committee running the show/being the figurehead(s) of the club.

    Edit: That also then solves the future headache of who would fill his role/the title should he decide to stand down.

  9. #109
    Non-member Hoolio's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    That's not quite true Ian, I may not post a lot but I am on here a lot and a quick scan of the events section is easy to see that it is a little "sparse" and anyone with a brain can read between the lines and see that things are being held together by a few people I just think seeing/reading some of this stuff is even more damaging to slightly bruised morale.

  10. #110
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by car.crash View Post
    im all for having dawn as leader because miller is never here, but dont you think she should be asked rather than pushed into the role.
    There isn't a role to be pushed into. I was thinking we should delete that title anyway. Perhaps replace it with Infrastructure Manager. But that task is mainly mine due to no-one else taking on those aspects, some parts spread over to other people. No-one really has time to be a central overall manager, running more or less everything. Even if they don't start out they way they'll soon find they are the only person doing it.

    You can't task a committee member with something and fire them if they don't do it because they are not paid workers and we are under staffed as it is and there is not a queue to be on the committee.

    Over the years I asked some outspoken or keen members to just sit on the committee, not even be an officer and they mostly decline stating they can't spare the time. Maybe meaning can't take the risk of once there, being further inveigled and having to give time.

  11. #111
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mart View Post
    Just for clarification, it wasn't a case of us joining in with another club's (or even joe public) trackday. It was more so that we purchase all the places for a given trackday from one of the many trackday companies out there (BookaTrack, EasyTrack, Circuit Days, Track-action Online, etc etc), sell the places to rtoc members, which will still then effectively make it an rtoc-only event/trackday, but at a cheaper cost to what 'hiring' Mallory costs us.

    As a bonus, that then opens up the possibility of holding the event/National Day at any UK trackday location, rather than Mallory.

    Of course, it comes with a risk that if we didn't end up selling a good majority of the tickets, we'd be somewhat out of pocket, but perhaps a 'sale or return' scheme could be implemented with the trackday company, or we offer any left-over spaces to other clubs/joe public.
    I see. When put like that it does seem like a good way. Ironically, TAOL are managing the RTOC Mallory event anyway.

    And we are hoping that other clubs do join in so the financial loss in mitigated.

  12. #112
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoolio View Post
    I just think seeing/reading some of this stuff is even more damaging to slightly bruised morale.
    Well, that is a possibility but the thread is producing some goods from the wider audience.

  13. #113
    Member Lomo's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Just out of interest and for my own benefit really what are the exact figures on membership? Not renewals but how many members does the club have as of now...

    Cheers in advance

  14. #114
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomo View Post
    what are the exact figures on membership?
    As per a few posts earlier, as far as we can tell, about 525 paid members. That's new and old combined.

  15. #115
    Member Lomo's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    As per a few posts earlier, as far as we can tell, about 525 paid members. That's new and old combined.
    Cheers Ian

    As far as you can tell? Is there no definite number kept?

    My own view on this is that things have gotten a little to big for what needs catering for. Perhaps the club should scale back a little. Strip things down and rebuild so to speak.

    I cant help feeling that when things were a little bit smaller they were managed better and run properly..There seems to be alot of people with titles and very little being done? At this point in time most things in life are having to make cut backs so perhaps RTOC should start thinking along the same lines...

    One thing I have learnt in business is that theres no such thing as a bad army...

  16. #116
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Maybe a solution is to have several localised events co-ordinations arranging events that they themselves want to attend, thereby having the motivation to do so.

    That way no-one is expecting one overall person to do more than they can or want to.

    Maybe area reps could be some of those people, but not necessarily.

  17. #117
    Committee, NW Regional Rep Alex's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    Maybe a solution is to have several localised events co-ordinations arranging events that they themselves want to attend, thereby having the motivation to do so.

    That way no-one is expecting one overall person to do more than they can or want to.

    Maybe area reps could be some of those people, but not necessarily.
    I thought generally that WAS the role of area reps anyway? That's how I've always taken my role to be.

    Re membership numbers - wow that's seriously dropped! I remember not so long ago the club had 1000+ paid members. Surely the £25 joining fee needs to reviewed again?

  18. #118
    Honorary Member Guybrush's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Surely the £25 joining fee needs to reviewed again?
    I think the joining fee/renewal fee should be £10. However, if someone's joining purely to sell a car/parts, then i think we'd be silly to let them get away with the £15 saving (look at the price of autotrader adverts).

    Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?

  19. #119
    Committee, NW Regional Rep Alex's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    True but not at the detriment of potentially loosing 500+ members @ £10 a pop. If people want to join to sell parts the that could work to the clubs advantage as certain items become rare/hard to get. The only problem being we don't know any of these people selling the parts (not that being a club member assures buyers of anything!)

    I'm sure something could be done to control that kind of spamming though.....

  20. #120
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Yeah it's a difficult one.

    I argued against the £25 joining fee.

    It did cause a sharp drop in new members from about 600 a year to about 400 a year.

    But renewals went up from 400 to 600.

    The overall income remained about the same.

    I've forgotten what the fees were before then.

    Can anyone remember if it was two tier?

    Our income has dropped from about £15000 to about £7500.

    How can we differentiate new members who want to just advertise from those who want to used the boards, articles, contacts, Wizard and gain the knowledge?

  21. #121
    Member Lomo's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonB View Post
    I think the joining fee/renewal fee should be £10. However, if someone's joining purely to sell a car/parts, then i think we'd be silly to let them get away with the £15 saving (look at the price of autotrader adverts).

    Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?
    This is the type of thing the club should be looking at! Genuine Owners...

    I do feel the joining up policy should be tighter controlled....This is a non profit organisation so money isn't everything... Id rather have a club with 300 people in of which 250+ are happy. At least this way it limits the club to how much they can spend on possible venues for the likes of National Day knowing the venue will be filled and of an ample size! In theory the club would be getting more for its money...

  22. #122
    Member Lomo's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    Yeah it's a difficult one.

    I argued against the £25 joining fee.

    It did cause a sharp drop in new members from about 600 a year to about 400 a year.

    But renewals went up from 400 to 600.

    The overall income remained about the same.

    I've forgotten what the fees were before then.

    Can anyone remember if it was two tier?

    Our income has dropped from about £15000 to about £7500.

    How can we differentiate new members who want to just advertise from those who want to used the boards, articles, contacts, Wizard and gain the knowledge?
    Have a guest classified section....With that being the only area of the site they are able to view and post in....Perhaps charge them for the advert...

  23. #123
    Honorary Member Guybrush's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomo View Post
    Have a guest classified section....With that being the only area of the site they are able to view and post in....Perhaps charge them for the advert...
    More site functionality, which when we don't have a web developer for is a tall order.

  24. #124
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonB View Post
    Perhaps we should consider 2 different membership levels to encourage genuine owners to join up cheaply?
    Do you mean like charging just for 'membership' of the classifieds and seperate fee for overall membership?

    The problem there is that the overall should be higher.

    But we want the classifieds to be higher.

    But that means people will join overall for the cheaper fee so they can just use the classifieds.

    We don't know exactly how many people join just for the classifieds to sell their car.

    So if it was £10 to join and an extra £15 to use the classifieds, members would soon complain about the frustration of not wanting to may £15 to sell some small item.

    It's it's a large number of the 250 new members who just join to sell, then at £15 instead of £25 the club would be worse off.

  25. #125
    Member Lomo's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonB View Post
    More site functionality, which when we don't have a web developer for is a tall order.
    There isn't a member that could help the club with this?

  26. #126
    Honorary Member Guybrush's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    Do you mean like charging just for 'membership' of the classifieds and seperate fee for overall membership?

    The problem there is that the overall should be higher.

    But we want the classifieds to be higher.

    But that means people will join overall for the cheaper fee so they can just use the classifieds.

    We don't know exactly how many people join just for the classifieds to sell their car.

    So if it was £10 to join and an extra £15 to use the classifieds, members would soon complain about the frustration of not wanting to may £15 to sell some small item.

    It's it's a large number of the 250 new members who just join to sell, then at £15 instead of £25 the club would be worse off.
    I haven't got a fully formed thought about this, but i reckon;

    Silver Membership £10
    Full access to the site but not to the Sell boards in classifieds.

    Gold Membership £25
    Full access to the site and classifieds
    Gets awarded to members for free on their first renewal

    I think this is reasonable, as if you want to make money from the clubs members then you should either be an actively renewing member or pay the initial premium.

  27. #127
    Honorary Member Guybrush's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lomo View Post
    There isn't a member that could help the club with this?
    Perhaps.
    I've done it previously, but can't commit to doing it again.

  28. #128
    Shifter of old Freezers djinuk's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonB View Post
    I haven't got a fully formed thought about this, but i reckon;

    Silver Membership £10
    Full access to the site but not to the Sell boards in classifieds.

    Gold Membership £25
    Full access to the site and classifieds
    Gets awarded to members for free on their first renewal

    I think this is reasonable, as if you want to make money from the clubs members then you should either be an actively renewing member or pay the initial premium.

    This sounds spot on to me,

  29. #129
    Committee, NW Regional Rep Alex's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    I think it should just be £10 for both joining and renewing. Any blatant spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted by the mods and possible action taken against the individual. That seems simple enough and I'm sure it can't be too much work?

  30. #130
    Honorary Member Guybrush's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I think it should just be £10 for both joining and renewing. Any blatant spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted by the mods and possible action taken against the individual. That seems simple enough and I'm sure it can't be too much work?
    I guess we'll see what the results of that questionaire is... unless of course it just got buried in this thread and no one but me has answered it.

  31. #131
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    spamming of the classifdes should just be deleted
    That's what happens now and has been for maybe 8 months.

  32. #132
    Non-member JRP's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    I wonder how much the lack of well organised area reps / area members mapping / search for the last three years has had a negative impact?

    Maybe some of the people that genuinly wanted to help out should not have been snubbed when decicions were made.. maybe everything would have been better...

    some reps never show there faces others are very helpful and get things done and arranged.

    James5 for example credit to the club, but who else is arranging and sorting things, its from the small meets that peoople get to know people.. and from there things grow and grow.... another top member is phil5t he bothers to do a monthly meet...

    more people like these chaps is what is required!

    but the whole decicion making process on this club is jank, to secretive and no info passed on till decions have been made, and in a few cases bad ones

  33. #133
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by JRP View Post
    but the whole decicion making process on this club is jank, to secretive and no info passed on till decions have been made, and in a few cases bad ones
    Hence this being public now.

    But it's normal for a management team to make executive decision's. That's what they're there for. Nothing would get done if the whole club had to vote and it be more then 51% agreement, or whatever, for every small item. And we know from past experience that only a few percent would be bothered to.

    I know from keep asking outspoken people to join in that they just don't want to be part of the process. And further, it a real problem if there are loudmouths who are all talk and no action in a committee. It's very destructive. They just love to snipe and p1ss of the workers.

  34. #134
    Committee, Treasurer, Memberships admin Ian S's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonB View Post
    I guess we'll see what the results of that questionaire is... unless of course it just got buried in this thread and no one but me has answered it.
    Such an item really should be in it's own sticky locked thread.

  35. #135
    Committee, Shop Manager, SE Regional Rep Bigfoot's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    Such an item really should be in it's own sticky locked thread.
    You mean this post then

    https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=22290

  36. #136
    Non-member millie's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian S View Post
    So why has he not organised any(?) events? Why is it that Lee and Dawn are organising the ND? Why is it that I had to enter events to the calender? In fact, incredibly, after several weeks or more of being on the committee, Steve asked was there an email address for events!!!! I'd spent quite a bit of time giving him all the info when he was appointed and he'd not collected ANY club events emails. I wasn't just me that was aghast. If it were not for Ashy asking about the ND in Jan there possibly wouldn't be one. That's when we contacted Miller to find out if he'd done anything about it and was told months earlier he'd asked Steve to do it. Why is it that you're taking Steves lack of involvement with the committee personally? It plain for all to see that you've not got a clue what you're talking about.
    Gee whiz you don't get it at all. We want someone to ORGANISE OFFICIAL RTOC EVENTS all over the UK, and loads of them, not just turn up and join in with a few!!! Or for that matter only organise the ones you want to go to.

    I'm not the events organiser. My work as Treasurer is done from home, making sure sufficient money is where is needs to be to pay the various bills. If we get credit card facilities it'll be me that spends hours and hours making it happen. My work as web server, email server, website and general infrastructure overseer is done from home. I also organise the advertising get the designs done and liaise with the magazines. Fed them a few mini feature items for publication. I also take and deal with various member and non member enquiries about various aspects or problems. I also poke around in the shop from time to time and wrote and re-list the eBay ad for the dials, made the fuller dials fitting guide that in the articles section, previously wrote nearly 30 articles, update the many various articles. Spent a week or more 'properly' doing the latest buyers guide after Steves good start. Sadly they published the rough draught that Steve sent them instead of the final version. The list goes on and on. And I've scaled back a lot in the last couple of years mainly due to on-going bad health problems. Many of these mentioned items individually are trivialities, but together they add up and are on-going. It might be the case that I put more time in per month, and maybe even some weeks, that Steve has so far with official business since he's been on the committee. It's fair to say though that were I not un-well I would expect to have a lot less time available for this club than I've had. I'm one of those people who naturally notice things that need doing and are being left and tend to do them myself. I've been trying to do less for this club in recent times as I need to do more for myself.

    I've put in 60 hours per week, for weeks or even months at a time for this club in the past. And I'm not talking about going to some social events. It laughable to say that's how you're helping the club out at management level, just by turning up to a few socials.

    Steve's input the to committee regarding this was to say he'd been to the curry night with Mart, Bill, Penfold, etc and they suggested joining with in someone else' trackday. That was done in 2007 with the FCS and we got a lot of complaints that members wanted their own exclusive day. The committee in general felt that was what they still wanted and should be done this year. By extreme contrast, when Miller first got the job in 2006, he phoned all the tracks, examined all the options, amassed data and presented me and then other club officers and then the new committee, that I and he had just formed, with all that data tabulated, high lighted, costs, benefits, disadvantages.

    As far as the inner machinations of the RTOC goes, you're a clueless ignorant bystander who's now chosen to lock horns with someone who's been a leading figure, and at times a 'rock', at the core of running this club for nearly 10 years. Sometimes a committee members spouse does know what goes due to the depth of their partners involvement. This is evidently not the case here. I for one expected you'd have seen the committee boards and how active I am on there, for years it's been just about the only place I post and am doing so nearly every day. In a way it's a shame the members don't get to see that area of the club as an educated understanding of who does what over the last 4 1/2 years at least would then be possible and I'm not talking about just myself but in general. There are other key workers who are holding things together which is not apparent from members forums.

    I'd still be very happy for Steve to delivery the goods regarding organising 'official' events and small local ones. We all want him to but it's May now and it's just not happening. I don't know why. He cites lack of time. On the plus site he organised the orange dials group buy, though that was motivated by his own need, and non official RTOC Nurburgring trip(s) but again motivated by his own need. He did start the buyers guide and I've seen some thread asking members who wants to attend something but it's just too little. Several committee have made it plain they were very disappointed with the lack of events organised. Even if only 5 members turn up, as least it's an organised club presence rather than just those 5 parking in the out field and being spectators.

    Then Enfield Motor Pageant local to me is ideal for concourse and interesting old cars like this club is brimming with and has many clubs there. There was some of Renault club there last time I went with cars from the 50's with an early C1J type engine. A weekend event, with auto jumble, traders, shows but no RTOC. There are shows like this all over the UK. This club has evidently withered badly in the last two years. It needs events organiser(s) to take it places and make other people know it exists. Steve has the car but it seems not the time.

    As far as talking bluntly goes, yes I'm aware of my plain speaking, and for the larger part, lack of ability to couch it so as to not offend some peoples stunted and or mixed up emotions. People who know me, however, know that I'm usually not being malicious but far from that.
    Wow! you really do have too much time on your hands! You must have been an A* pupil at school for essay writing in the Art of moaning! You had your say in your first post, as I said RING steve instead of writing your bull**** essays on here!!
    but no a keyboard war is your thing because you're such a COWARD!!!

    As for memers attending events if you keep driving them away (as the decline in membership over the years keeps showing) there won't be a club to organise events for. This then reduces the budgets ffurther for the events you can attend!

    I suggest you make the boards for RTOC and not your personal vendettas when you can clearly call and speak to the person in question. That might be a good start for the club. Why don't you focus you're moaning energys into something positive.

    I do see the committee boards & see all your moaning on there as well! that's not putting in constructive time is it? & after reading your essay I still don't actually see what you do other than a bit of this & that here & there when you

    What's the deadline to organise ALL RTOC EVENTS ALL OVER THE UK? becuase as I see if when are only in May there's loads of time to organise a lot of things? What's the problem?

    This is the last I'm saying on the matter I look forward to speaking to you at the AGM at ND and seeing you at all the events this year!

  37. #137
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    I'm sure this thread was meant to be productive ... The senior members aren't exactly adding anything positive, all you have done is slag each other for 2 days now ! Don't know about anyone else but I'm a new member and does slightly tarnish my enthusiasm for national day!

    If you feel need to knock lumps out of each other, as millie said do it on the phone of get yourself in a carpark and sort it out ! As mentioned I fairly new to the club and joined it to meet up with like minded people & get advise ... If I wanted to see this crap could happily go on facebook.

    You want to sell more tickets for national day & for the club ... Not a good advertisement

    Gibbo

  38. #138
    Non-member Matt@CodeRedMotorsports's Avatar
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    If you lot are going to carry on bickering in this way do it via pm's or phone calls AND THEN GROW UP!
    If you think new members are impressed by this then you are wrong, its getting too personal and petty.
    I won't be renewing next year.
    Matt@Coderedmotorsports. (formally known as Lucky).

  39. #139
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo69 View Post
    I'm sure this thread was meant to be productive ... The senior members aren't exactly adding anything positive, all you have done is slag each other for 2 days now ! Don't know about anyone else but I'm a new member and does slightly tarnish my enthusiasm for national day!

    If you feel need to knock lumps out of each other, as millie said do it on the phone of get yourself in a carpark and sort it out ! As mentioned I fairly new to the club and joined it to meet up with like minded people & get advise ... If I wanted to see this crap could happily go on facebook.

    You want to sell more tickets for national day & for the club ... Not a good advertisement

    Gibbo
    I'm sorry you have seen this Gibbo & I hope you see the truly friendly side of the club at the National Day next month?

    I tried to draw a line under all of this yesterday & created the survey to move this forwards rather than just keep talking about everything.

    I'm going to lock this thread now as I think it's served it's time & can be tomorrow's archive.

  40. #140
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    Re: The future of the RTOC national day

    millie
    ------
    Dawn is the only person I can see put more effort into this club than anyone else, it's certainly not Ian! Dawn should be running it, it's exactly what the club needs and it needs more people like her!
    What's good for the club....
    ------

    Millie, please don't take this the wrong way but to the more cool headed amongst us it is incredibly evident that you were/are letting emotion get in the way of your better judgment. That I understand, it happens a lot, I'm not criticising.

    But, to make a statement like that tells me that you really don't know what happens behind the scenes. And thats fine, most people don't, and those that are doing the work don't ask for credit and so it doesn't come to light. So it's wholey unfair of you to cast statements like that on a public forum when you don't have (and you know you don't have) the facts.

    BS aside, personal aligences aside, the blunt and gods honest truth is that this club would have vanished off the face of the earth if it was not for Ian's continued involvement. For christ sake, it would have vanished only last month if Ian did not spend hours of his own time securing a replacement web server when the old one maxed out and was hacked again. And for what ? To host this nonsence ? Give me a break.

    There just ISNT sufficient interest from anyone else to keep the club going. Me included. I spent an inordinate amount of time and effort resurecting this website and membership database in 2008 and throughout that period Ian was the only person with any measurable input with regard to it's direction. Without that I would not have been able to work. Unfortunately I don't have the enthusiasm or time to do it anymore. Ian is now working hard to find an external, paid replacement for me.

    Now, I know what some people will be thinking; "Ah but, if Ian or another CM doesn't do a job then someone else will step in and do it instead". Wrong. Time and time and time and time again it is proven not to be the case. Things, huge things have gone over looked because the propper person for the job failed to do it.

    Please people, before you post anything in a topic like this, take some time to think rationally about what you're about to say otherwise you might find yourself very much in the wrong and regretting what you've said. I think some apologies are in order here.

    Finally, it's a miricle that I was able to muster the enthusiasm to write this post and it's fair to say I won't be reading or replying to anything else on the matter. I'm off to get covered in oil and clutch fluid, which is much more fun than this. Thankfully not everyone has the same outlook as me and there are still a small handfull of people that are willing to sacrifice their spare time to keep this place going. My advise: don't alienate them.

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