The future of the RTOC national day

[TNT ANDY]

Well I don't really know how to start here without any facts but I'll get the ball rolling based on the fact that discussing it within the committee behind closed doors or at the AGM where the people who attend are the ones who need less encouragement to commit to the RTOC national day.

When I joined up in 2002 I attended what can only be described as one of the most memorable weekends I've ever had with an epic turn out of Renault turbo's which filled Santa pod. Since then, I've attended every national day since despite not having my 1 and only GTT turbo on the road for 4 years.

Since those days, the numbers have dropped and dropped year on year, even national days at Santa pod became 'empty' when I think we changed venue at that point. I think this trend has continued, if the committee could provide numbers this would be good.

My point is, that if what Clee has quoted is accurate and we are set to loose 7K then another approach may be necessary (I assume that a loss of this size would not be sustainable), and it would be good to have a frank and open discussion about what people want from the club, and if it is the case that 90% want it simply for advice and cheap parts, then that is a fact and we will never change that, but what we need to do is protect the fantastic community on here and provide affordable days that are cost effective with. A poll would be a good starting point to see how many members

A. Respond to the poll
B. Are interested in a national day.
C. Are not interested in a national day.

I know there have been discussions about this, but it needs bottoming out and conclusions / plans to be based on the data collected.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

The biggest problem is £££....

RTOC has less than around 850 paying members..... (estimate)

600 renewals
250 new members

So thats an income of about £12k from memberships....

The time you take money from group buys, club shop - buying intial stock, advertising etc... its not a huge amount to spend on ND, POD etc...

The general feel is people want a ND at a weekend rather than week day... you try finding a venua that will accept a small club over a weekend...

Pod will only ever offer us a weekday as weekends are pre booked & sold to companys for alot more than it cost us for a friday... even a rwyb weekend gets pod more income...

Mallory park is one of the few venues that will accept us for a weeked (friday - sunday) for a reasonible cost... also has camping, toilets, showers and a restaurant... also a bonus of havin something to do whislt were there ... a nice little track

Most tracks in the uk will not entertain us, or if they do they want £20k+ for a day, with no camping....

When RTOC had Brunters, and shared Rockingham with FCS we camped off site... how many of you went to be at 2am or later.... were drinking pretty heavily friday night... and then had to drive to the Venue...

I personally Feel Mallory has run its course.... next year could be different... but I very much doubt the club will entertain a Track based ND, Pod is an option but unlikely to be a weekend... maybe shakespear could be an option - I have never been there does it have camping??

I also feel that RTOC cant not support 2 venues, 2 big events... Mallory cost £10k, pod £5k.... Last year we had a good year and made a tiny profit at ND & a small loss at Pod... the banks are healthy and can just handle a hit this year.... but next year will be very hard for us.

[BluntyR5GTT]

im defo interested in the national day this is what being a member of a club is all about, i missed last years (only been a member since nov 2009) due to being out the country but im there this year with my other half in tow got her come along as its another £10 towards costs every little helps guys.

[youngscottie]

i think its time we had a poll as to events/venues for next year
as i find these threads really depressing
the club just isnt big enought to support what everyone wants
and the older cars are slowly fading away

theres no easy answer to this
im glad im not in millers position as he allways cops the flack
for not solving the unsolvable

[Guybrush]

Am sure various polls would be good. It would be worthwhile spamming the member base to get as many answers as possible.

Weekday vs weekend.
National day vs North/South days.

[Hoolio]

I too am fairly shocked and dismayed by the above but is the lack of response so far indicative of the way of things at the moment, I hope not. As a club the only people to blame for the success or failure of these events is ourselves, I hope to see lots there this year.

[Ashy]

Bottom line is - You can't please all the people all the time.

Year on Year its the same core of members that turn up for ND and attend the AGM.

Its not going to change unless we attract more modern Reno Turbo's into the fold...

Like Penfold has said there aren't many venues that would take us with the track + onsite camping and come in on budget.

2012 will be an interesting year, hopefully there are some good suggestions and willing members to help out

[bigdur]

I can't come this year due to family commitments, was looking forward to having some beers with you guys and ragging the tits off my car, shame if it is a dying breed. Is there no milage in trying to combine with some other clubs?

[Eugein Offord]

There should not be a profit motive for a club of member as ours , it is not a bussiness............... so the words profit or loss shouldnt be used ... the correct term is Reserves... if this or any other sociaty of members aims for an annual profit... then what should be done with that profit and what if nothing is done for any number of years ...it then belongs to the members of any new year without the benefit of former years members.............. Just to summise the usefull use of our money is the only concern of the commity. Be it to grow or to hold an event or 10...... there is never a loss as members gain by there membership.......any money raised in one year should be spent in that year............

[Matt Cole]

Not sure about you lot, but im pretty sure everyone's fekin skint!!!!

[D4WNO]

I think a lot, perhaps newer members don't realise that we are a non-profit organisation and any profit we do make goes straight back into the club again. This enables us to invest in OE parts for the shop, group buys, to keep the forum running and most importantly, to heavily subsidise our events.

In years gone by, a profit may have been made on everything but the demise of the 5 is of course affecting the club, so we very soon need to think of ways to expand/move and keep the club alive.

It all revolves around the support of the members. We make no profit on anything in the club shop, it's all sold at cost, perhaps with PayPal fees on top and anything additional is absolutely minimal. It isn't the end of the world if we lose money at an event as we'll make the vast majority of that back in memberships (we broke even at National Day last year remember).

It can't go on forever and we won't be the first car club to have experienced this, but those smaller clubs don't also have events on the scale of ours, so really, we're very lucky indeed.

What I really want to see is the members all shouting about National Day and our Pod event to other related clubs and getting everyone involved. It'll mean we keep the bank balance happy so we can continue right until all the 5's are dead. So get buying your tickets, support the club and get involved. If you think you can help, feel free to shout me any time of the day. I'm really busy at the moment behind the scenes finalising bits and pieces with the rest of the Commitee for National Day and help especially from the Area Reps will be greatly received

[Ashy]

There should not be a profit motive for a club of member as ours , it is not a bussiness............... so the words profit or loss shouldnt be used ... the correct term is Reserves...

Come on Eugine, you've been around long enough to know the RTOC doesn't exist to make a profit. In terms of "Reserves" it would be nice to keep enough in reserve to cover the deposit on the next years event.

[Renault 5 GT Turbo]

I am fairly new on here so forgive me if I am suggesting something which has been explored before now.

How about a hill climb venue...ok it is not going to please everybody but it could work out cheaper than a track and offer some short hits of adrenalin! It has corners though unlike a drag strip.

Many years ago, I used to attend Prescott Hill Climb each year with another club and really enjoyed it.

If people wanted a competitive element to it, you could have a few classes:
Standard
Modified
Highly Modified
...with a bench mark time to beat. Dependant on your car's class, you would get points for your time against the bench mark time. This is kinda how the Ferrari boys do it these days albeit across a season of hill climb venues.

[Eugein Offord]

Come on Eugine, you've been around long enough to know the RTOC doesn't exist to make a profit. In terms of "Reserves" it would be nice to keep enough in reserve to cover the deposit on the next years event.

ditto..........

For me the word loss used by members implies a failure of some sort ,for an event. Which i dont see as a failure when members gain from the event in a non finacial mannor....

[djinuk]

hillclimb seems a very good suggestion to me, personally id not dream of NOT attending nats day, even purely to spectate, but thats just me.

I guess the fact is that rtoc has always been mainly r5's, however the prices on these aswell as the parts has hiked up, pushing people towards other cheap and cheerfull pocket rockets. and away from the r5, and therefore nats day.

I feel the most important thing is not to change the venue as i dont feel this is the problem, but more to take the plunge and accept that we need to somehow welcome in other owners clubs to the event (maybe not even renault), to help cover the costs, possibly in limited numbers, 10 track passes to clio sport, 5 to 205 gti drivers, 5 to passion-ford that kind of thing.

Yes they get a cheap track day, but chances are if they have a good time they will also sign up to the boards, all in all generating funds for the club and help keeping the events coming.

[Lomo]

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

The figures Penfold quoted earlier are interesting. Just under 850 paying members of which 600 are renewals! Putting National Day aside, Id like to address this first. We are talking money here and whatever the set up, managing the money properly is crucial whether it be a non profit organisation or Shell....The amount of times I see on here people missing their renewal date by days and asking for the £10 fee still. Rules are rules. Id like to put a figure on how much the club has lost through this method of not charging members full wack if they miss their date! The club isnt a charity. Even if it was say 50 people,(wild guess) which Im sure isn't very far away from the actual figure per year, that is £750.00 the club is losing out on...£750.00.....I cant help feeling this needs addressing.

With regards to National Day perhaps we should go back to basics for next years and use the bigger events for the annual get togethers, Renault World Series, FCS, Santa Pod RWYB etc abit like it used to be.

The Clio V6 Owners Club this year is holding their main club day up in the Lakes and it promises to be a fantastic day. A list of hotels has been given and its up to the members to book their rooms if they decide to stay the night before and indeed afterwards. Locally there are camp sites as well that some people might be using. We will all park up, chat, buy, sell, and then drive together and stop for various things. Now I know the numbers are a little different but at least RTOC members will be together and it will cost the club nothing.

The Dutch club arranges with the appropriate people and meet up in a HUGE carpark usually like an Ikea type place or similar for one of their big days. Its fantastic.

Why dont we try a mix of both. On the Saturday a drive and on the Sunday a meet...

The National day was born in 2002 with the main aim being for Owners to get together and enjoy their passion together. This cant be a difficult thing to do and like I said last year, and the year before, Id be happy to help organise a new method of National Day....

[Trevhib]

The Club should look into how other clubs (that support similar cult classic motors but that are 5-10 years further down the line than us), have managed this type of long-term transition. There's a lot we can learn from other organisations (adopt their winning strategies and learn from their failures).

We are slowly turning into an 'old classics' outfit. It's something we should eithe gradually embrace or totally reject because it's inevitable if this club's modus operandi remains the same.

The only way I can see big turn outs to future RTOC events given the lessening number of GTTs on the road (and our small number of non-GTT club members), is to reach out. To consider closer relationships, including merging, with some of the other, older fast Renault model clubs (and/or possibly consider a Euro merger). Either that or perhaps widen the scope of the club by doing a lot more (i.e. change the whole basis of this club), to attract any and all performance Renault models.

So it's a choice between two evils:

- accept the withering and distilling down of club numbers/turnout but maintain the roots/purity/general GTT enthusiast nature of the club and adapt to the inevitable changes

- keep the club going/bustling at the expense of tradition by changing some of the fundamentals

There really aren't any other choices bar jacking it in. With 850 paying members, that would be ridiculous.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I have checked the actuall members numbers... and its less than what I original esitmated...not as good as I first thought...

** Please ignore all figures, going to double check as something strange is happening on the database**

[clee]

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

Yes ,it was more of a wake up statement .It's how we stand at present .How many is quite a few though ?
We still need to shift another 35 track tickets to get even halfway + only about 2 dozen std entry sold

[TNT ANDY]

Firstly, quoting a 7K loss is a little misleading at this point as I know quite a few members who haven't yet bought their tickets in advance not to mention those who decide to buy on the day. Ok, the club may still make a loss but it wont be to the tone of £7000.

The figures Penfold quoted earlier are interesting. Just under 850 paying members of which 600 are renewals! Putting National Day aside, Id like to address this first. We are talking money here and whatever the set up, managing the money properly is crucial whether it be a non profit organisation or Shell....The amount of times I see on here people missing their renewal date by days and asking for the £10 fee still. Rules are rules. Id like to put a figure on how much the club has lost through this method of not charging members full wack if they miss their date! The club isnt a charity. Even if it was say 50 people,(wild guess) which Im sure isn't very far away from the actual figure per year, that is £750.00 the club is losing out on...£750.00.....I cant help feeling this needs addressing.

With regards to National Day perhaps we should go back to basics for next years and use the bigger events for the annual get togethers, Renault World Series, FCS, Santa Pod RWYB etc abit like it used to be.

The Clio V6 Owners Club this year is holding their main club day up in the Lakes and it promises to be a fantastic day. A list of hotels has been given and its up to the members to book their rooms if they decide to stay the night before and indeed afterwards. Locally there are camp sites as well that some people might be using. We will all park up, chat, buy, sell, and then drive together and stop for various things. Now I know the numbers are a little different but at least RTOC members will be together and it will cost the club nothing.

The Dutch club arranges with the appropriate people and meet up in a HUGE carpark usually like an Ikea type place or similar for one of their big days. Its fantastic.

Why dont we try a mix of both. On the Saturday a drive and on the Sunday a meet...

The National day was born in 2002 with the main aim being for Owners to get together and enjoy their passion together. This cant be a difficult thing to do and like I said last year, and the year before, Id be happy to help organise a new method of National Day....

Give that man a cigar.

[Lomo]

Yes ,it was more of a wake up statement .It's how we stand at present .How many is quite a few though ?
We still need to shift another 35 track tickets to get even halfway + only about 2 dozen std entry sold

In our little group alone Clee there is over £300.00 worth of tickets coming the clubs way and I know of 6 or 7 members outside that who are yet to purchase anything but intend on doing so..

[Gibbo69]

In our little group alone Clee there is over £300.00 worth of tickets coming the clubs way and I know of 6 or 7 members outside that who are yet to purchase anything but intend on doing so..

I completely agree lomo ... Me being one of them !

Only a small thing but I went on to the club shop yesterday to purchase my National day tickets, got to purchasing and the only option was paypal or money order!!! Surely if there was an easier payment route ie credit card payments then I'm sure more would purchase... I personally think is wrong to suggest paypal as our main payment system & money order is so old fashion.. It can be such a hassel to add the monies to paypal & setting up an account ect.... I can only take from my own personal experience and this caused me to not to purchase ( an I'm an member) imagine how none member, Who don't really care for the club, but just want a good track day !!!

Gibbo

[clee]

Cheque or money order

We could set up debit and credit card acceptance but for the small volume of sales it's not really worth the expense .The shop is not a true shop in that sense .
It could be ,we could invest the National day and POD monies in stock and special manufacturing but then it would need running full time and you'd have to pay somebody to do that .

[D4WNO]

If we have a PayPal Business account then you don't actually need a PayPal account to pay and credit/debit cards are accepted anyway

https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/ac...ypal/index.htm

[clee]

Yes ,we could do that

[Gibbo69]

Cheque or money order

We could set up debit and credit card acceptance but for the small volume of sales it's not really worth the expense .The shop is not a true shop in that sense .
It could be ,we could invest the National day and POD monies in stock and special manufacturing but then it would need running full time and you'd have to pay somebody to do that .

I agree but we need to look at a smoother and more effective process, there may be an additional expense for extra payment tech... If it meant an 20% increase in ticket sales it pays for itself.... And more

Gibbo

[Ian S]

...with a bench mark time to beat. Dependant on your car's class, you would get points for your time against the bench mark time.

When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

[Ian S]

Credit card.

We had World Pay a few years ago. Took only a few payments a year. Cost us about £600 a year.

Things have changed. I looked at credit card 15 months ago. But is still costs something and for nearly no use. It is some protracted hassle to set up and maintain. No-one is being paid to run this club so how much do you expect of the volunteers who do?

We took about £7500 in the last 12 months. Works out to nearer 525 members.

Penfold will be able to confirm that current new memberships are just over 200 in the last year and renewals are just over 300.

They've both halved from three maybe two years ago when there seemed to be a core of about 600 renewals.

So that's not good news for this club. Renewal is only £10 so people must be moving on.

If we have a PayPal Business account then you don't actually need a PayPal account to pay and credit/debit cards are accepted anyway

https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/ac...ypal/index.htm

We take less that the £1000 a month is says there. Maybe £625 in memberships and whatever in ticket sales and general shop sales. This service costs £240 a year. If it's used 20 times for those without a paypal account is it worth it?

[Guybrush]

When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

If this is the case, then it must present itself to get some club on club action going.
Cliosport VS Rtoc etc etc

There must be someone able to set up a timed sprint with all the gubbins that goes with it for us. http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk ?

My other club (FDMC) have regular sprints.. They have to pay for the company to come down with the timing gear and have a ST Johns Ambulance on stand-by. Usually quite a good turn out, you get 3 runs for the entry fee (£100-£120).
http://www.farnboroughdmc.org.uk/dim2011repa.php

There are some MSA regulations around the sprints, and it does start to become a bit of a specialist hobby. Not quite the same as rocking up with your home modifed Renault 5 and wanting to race it.

[djinuk]

as has already been said , what about just going for the cheaper option and using another prearranged event such as fcs to replace nationals day, It would be sad to see it happen but if you look at the numbers of r5s etc that attend mallory , imagine that same number attending FCS, the buzz would be awesome.

Even then we could do mallory say once every two years rather than every year to help keep costs down.

Just a thought, a compromise.

[clee]

When I looked into a hill clib event it seems very clear that timed sprints, ie, racing, is completely not allowed.

We know it is at Pod.

But the sprint and hill climb tracks are controlled by some kind of national organisation and only people who pay them for a license can do measured times.

Has this changed?

We need to be MSA registered .I brought this up a while ago but it's gone on the back burner .We would need a competition CM to handle it all .

[Renault 5 GT Turbo]

We need to be MSA registered .I brought this up a while ago but it's gone on the back burner .We would need a competition CM to handle it all .

Can we not do it without official timing? The club I used to attend with did it this way, people still drove the cars within an inch of their lives and 'personally' timed their runs!

[clee]

Doubt we'd get public liability cover unless MSA approved .I don't know 100% but we'd be daft not to get registered anyway .It means members can do a lot more purely because they belong to a registered club ,not just our own events .
It doesn't cost much ,we just have to meet certain criteria .

[TNT ANDY]

as has already been said , what about just going for the cheaper option and using another prearranged event such as fcs to replace nationals day, It would be sad to see it happen but if you look at the numbers of r5s etc that attend mallory , imagine that same number attending FCS, the buzz would be awesome.

Even then we could do mallory say once every two years rather than every year to help keep costs down.

Just a thought, a compromise.

I agree with Mr Spendlove - for me the attraction is just as much the beer / BBQ and meeting up with loads of peeps we rarely see, as it is the track / strip stuff, if not even more so. Are there members that would simply not turn up just for the beery weekend?

Don't get me wrong - I love the track / strip action but if it wasn't on offer I'd still turn up for the beer.

Thinking a bit further forward - it may be a flipping good idea for us to have our Nat day with PPC and enter an RTOC car. Problem solved.

Right - Next issue on the agenda please.

[JRP]

Good thread and good read

my two cents i havnt missed many nat days only due to opperations, but id spend a weekend in a field for national day or a camp site with a good pub nearby... or try maybe to get the national weekend tied in with a big summer car show on the sat and sunday track day for those wishing to attend, with camping near one or other,

Just a thought and could be done for alot less if we found a track day near the show or vise versa...

Just a thought

[dangerous dave]

i have no interest in taking part in track days, what little i did has left the building...

i like the camping, beer bbq etc..

i like the pod but its quieter than years ago, this year was better than last i think

if i was to miss an event it would be the track, no one round heres that interested in the day.. im bored of hearing/reading about the track day woes now, i wish it would end and we just had a meet at stringfellows car park for beers and strippers..

[Ashy]

we just had a meet at stringfellows car park for beers and strippers..

Best Idea I've ever hear

Can some one contact Peter and see if we can book an RTOC stand / VIP area?

[old skool turbo power]

We are slowly turning into an 'old classics' outfit. It's something we should eithe gradually embrace or totally reject because it's inevitable if this club's modus operandi remains the same.

The only way I can see big turn outs to future RTOC events given the lessening number of GTTs on the road (and our small number of non-GTT club members), is to reach out. To consider closer relationships, including merging, with some of the other, older fast Renault model clubs (and/or possibly consider a Euro merger). Either that or perhaps widen the scope of the club by doing a lot more (i.e. change the whole basis of this club), to attract any and all performance Renault models.

So it's a choice between two evils:

- accept the withering and distilling down of club numbers/turnout but maintain the roots/purity/general GTT enthusiast nature of the club and adapt to the inevitable changes

- keep the club going/bustling at the expense of tradition by changing some of the fundamentals

There really aren't any other choices bar jacking it in.

good point made there pal.as the years go on so do the cars and yeh they are great cars but to some ppl its just not for them anymore.as the prices of repairs and parts for the car can be alot and some ppl just dont have the money to spend on them.
so that might just lead them to breaking up the car and selling on the parts,for each person that might do this,this will lead into less renualt 5s on the raod and imo this seems to be the case.
there is no problem with this because its up to the person who owns the car so thats fair enough.tryin to make national day so bigger and better with just say 90% of renualt 5s i think will be very tricky.even if it wasnt just say renualt 5s there is a very small amount of other renualts as well.only guessing but this seems not to be covering the cost of every think.(money wise)
from what ian says (They've both halved from three maybe two years ago when there seemed to be a core of about 600 renewals.) from hearin this its not good and ppl have seemed to move on theres nothing you can do about it like i said before its just one of them.

the way i see it is that the renault 5 gt turbo is now getting old and its slowly fading away its hard to say but its true i think.the club as it is,is fine but as for national day we might need to merge with our newer brothers of renault i dont think there is nothing wrong with that because its all renualt anyway.
to see new renualt megans next to a renault 5 next to a gta v6 i think is pretty its just a massive change and somethink diffrent to see.

is this why ford do so well at there national days with so many cars turning up? i dont know but it works i guess and seems very busy the last time my bro went at silverstone.personaly i think we have to bige the bullet and see to try and move along side a clio national day or a renault megan turbo national day or meets(if they do them) and see how they get on and check out each other cars out.
after all imo national day is about seing each other cars and have a chat about them.

[Madmax]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Good thread.. interesting read

- my humble opinion

Although I am a new member to the club, I have been into and owned R5's over the last 20 years.

As with other clubs that I have been a member: - when the the basis of the club starts to age (the cars themselves), the focus of the club will inevitably change. When the cars are fresh affordable and there is an abundance of spares people will continue to up-rate, modify and thrash the living daylights out of them. As more head to the scrap yard the onus will return to the restoration and preservation of the vehicles that are left and making them original-ish. This in turn hikes the price of the cars, the spares, reduces the ownership numbers and ultimately people don't want to thrash them around a track or up a drag strip.

With the reducing numbers it appears this is starting to happen, so as already stated making the ND a more generalised meet, camp over with beers and a BBQ could be the future with track and drag days affiliated with another club.

For longevity the future may unfortunately mean merging with another group of enthusiasts in the same position as R5 owners - maybe an 1980,s and 90's hot hatch club. A bit of competition within sub groups of larger community would be a good sport in itself

[philg]

[philg]

Im just wondering how many members on renault5gtturbo.com are not members on here, im registered on both, but rarely use the other site, I have seen threads on there about people asking about rtoc and is it worth the joining fee. Could the club not offer a free 1 month all access pass to have a bit of a browse round rtoc, it may get some more gt members on board.

As for national day i can not comment, my first this year. It does sound as though it has all the makings of a good day out, just can not understand why threads like this keep popping up.

I think it probably just needs a bit of a tweek, try to get some new members in, maybe get the clio boys involved.

The instructor training sounds a good idea for this year.

Is there no where at mallory we could do a 0-60 or quarter mile, how longs the straight? is there the no way of having the second half of the day doing that, Just ideas guys do shoot me down if its not possible.

[Ian S]

A lot of people used to join to advertise their car. Sell it then 'leave'.

If we gave a free period we'd have to charge them to advertise.

The admin of all that would be too much.

The concerning thing is the halving in number of 'core' members, ie, renewals. Even though it's only £10. Those people think it's not worth it any more.

[Mart]

Isn't this just a case of same old same?

How many times has it been mentioned in the past (and at last year's AGM) about the future of the club & dwindling member count, but still nothing happens to change that.

What happened of the discussion from the AGM/threads from last year about an alternative venue/format for this year's ND? Was that ignored, or did we just sit back & 'play safe' with Mallory again?

Likewise, it was also suggested about us amalgamating with another 'old car' club, be it Renault orientated or 80's hot hatches in general, but has anything been done to even begin initiating that?

The Hillclimb event was mentioned donkeys ago, but did anyone look into it seriously?

Imho, there does need to be some changes, otherwise it's obvious to see that the club will eventually start diminishing away to nothing.

And aside from that, and this ISN'T a pop before anyone starts, but, genuinely, where is Miller these days? Is it fair & now within reason to ask Chris if his heart is still in it as being club President?

[Ian S]

The club just needs people to volunteer to do these things.

And by that I don't mean volunteer to wait to be told what to do, but to actively come up with the ideas and then find a way to make them happen and then make them happen. Get the information, solve the problems, present the answers to the committee and members.

Some people make suggestions, some of them good.

The club, as far as events goes, lacks the next stage turning them into action.

There's no point in referencing to Miller. He's just one busy man out of 525 members. He does still have the title of ND organiser but it's fair to say he's not organised this years one. His contribution so far this time has been to provisionally book Mallory and he only did that because the person he'd said he tasked it to months earlier denied all knowledge and presented no generally acceptable alternatives. It seems that Miller may be doing some leaflets and sorting the trophies but it's fair to presume that from last October or before he doesn't want to do ND any more.

We have a general events organiser but it appears he's too busy working abroad to be able to lead from the front / go to all the events / etc.

We NEED more people to get involved. Without that happening, the club will eventually wither away.

With a lot less people to draw new organisers from, that increases the problems.

As far as the title of club president goes, it's just a name. It does not mean the holder of that name will save the club. Or even do anything. There appears to be no-one to replace Miller as ND organiser. The club doesn't need people who want titles. It needs people who want to, and will, make a difference.

[Mart]

I sense a tinge of sadness with your post there Ian I feel the same mate - I've been here ~15 years, and would love there to still be an RTOC in some shape or form over the next 15 years & beyond

With regards to the 'title' comment, that may well be the case that members can still organise events or whatever off their own back, but surely the people with the titles should be leading by example? After all, they were the ones that were elected/voted into that position.

I don't know what the answers are mate, but I do personally feel that you guys on the Committee (along with Chris) should be the ones guiding the club in a new direction, if things are currently as bad/bleak-looking for the future as what's being made out to be the case

[JRP]

''We NEED more people to get involved. Without that happening, the club will eventually wither away.''


Ian your a top chap, ive offerd to help out countless times and have been snubbed.. if you need help.. pop ups as irritating as they are! use them to ask for help support or people will never know...

not a dig just the way its seen by a few as regards helping out.

[5alldaway]

Not sure about you lot, but im pretty sure everyone's fekin skint!!!!

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

[JRP]

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

When do people get savaged?

link please

[5alldaway]

When do people get savaged?

link please

you know full well it happens

[philg]

not to mention everytime a new member joins up on here asking a question thats been asked before they get savaged by all the usual members on here, hardly welcoming now is it, if its like this on the forum then i would be put off coming to an event

Fair point

Someone who left and returned just recently mentioned somewhere that only just a few years back it was getting a bit harsh but now its alot friendlier.