Re: New stuff for 2011

**Scoff** · 05-10-2011, 11:04

Hi Andy,

Which taper do you mean ? I can only think of the rod end taper.

Yes, new ears on the dampers is the way I'll go. It's just interesting that the hubs can be made to fit as is with very little work. I'll cut the ears off the dampers and make new ones with 15mm more reach.

Regards wishbones, I'll just cut the mounting section out and weld a new piece in. I can't afford to move the wheels even 10mm forward or back, the tyres only just fit in the arch. R11 would have been nice if they happened to be 15mm wider than R5!

Inner bearings ? I havn't seen those. I don't know if they would help me because I'm already elongating the wishbone holes in the subframe and that might only get worse if I fit bearings. Maybe not, or maybe it'll be fine if I thicken the mounting points up.

Plating the wishbone sounds good, the traction bars work wonders but occasionally I have sheered the mountings off the subframe because the wishbone has (presumably ?) flexed. Or maybe that's just movement in the bushes. I've not had a problem since I beefed up the traction bar mounts.

By the way, it's alarming how much chunkier the 172 hubs are compared with the R5 isn't it. Looking at the top of the R5 hub I can't believe I havn't snapped one! Actually they're Clio 16v ones I run but they're the same spindly casting. Only the bearings are larger in those.

I might try tacking up a few pieces tonight to see if I can get the hub and wheel sat where I want them.

**Andrew Cooke** · 05-10-2011, 18:08

Originally Posted by Scoff

Hi Andy,

Which taper do you mean ? I can only think of the rod end taper.

Yes, new ears on the dampers is the way I'll go. It's just interesting that the hubs can be made to fit as is with very little work. I'll cut the ears off the dampers and make new ones with 15mm more reach.

Regards wishbones, I'll just cut the mounting section out and weld a new piece in. I can't afford to move the wheels even 10mm forward or back, the tyres only just fit in the arch. R11 would have been nice if they happened to be 15mm wider than R5!

Inner bearings ? I havn't seen those. I don't know if they would help me because I'm already elongating the wishbone holes in the subframe and that might only get worse if I fit bearings. Maybe not, or maybe it'll be fine if I thicken the mounting points up.

Plating the wishbone sounds good, the traction bars work wonders but occasionally I have sheered the mountings off the subframe because the wishbone has (presumably ?) flexed. Or maybe that's just movement in the bushes. I've not had a problem since I beefed up the traction bar mounts.

By the way, it's alarming how much chunkier the 172 hubs are compared with the R5 isn't it. Looking at the top of the R5 hub I can't believe I havn't snapped one! Actually they're Clio 16v ones I run but they're the same spindly casting. Only the bearings are larger in those.

I might try tacking up a few pieces tonight to see if I can get the hub and wheel sat where I want them.

Bottom balljoint taper.

I knew they fitted easy - I've done it on the Twingo

Interestingly (or not) the part of the hub that the damper bolts to is thicker on the Twingo than on a valver /GTT. The only thing you might have to watch for is bump steer, but with all the other changes you probably have to watch for it anyway. Does your suspension actually move much these days?

The laguna uprights are a similar step again up from the 172, they are hooge.

I'm trying to think whether moving the holes out on the damper will sort out the camber, I'm pretty sure you'll need to tweek the angle too.

**Scoff** · 05-10-2011, 18:42

Well, the extended ears will sort the camber when the steering is in the straight ahead position but it'll have odd effects on camber (and caster I guess) when the steering is moved. I'll effectively have moved the lower pivot and not the top. I'm not sure I care about any of that though.

Suspension doesn't move much, bump steer isn't high on my list of concerns

**Scoff** · 08-10-2011, 20:47

Got cracking with the hubs today. Turns out there's 7mm more track per side in the 172 hubs compared with GT or 16v. I checked the angles and position of the top damper mount holes. Exactly the same as GT, only the stump is wider and the holes are 14mm.

I cut the ears off the damper, drilled the holes to 14mm and welded in some 13mm spacing strips because I want 20mm per side extra track so I can do away with the hubcentric spacers.

I set about getting the caliper on. Not so straight forward

Totally different bolt pitch, pcd and offset compared with GT or 16v. No room for a bracket. I've managed to re-drill and tap for one of the bolts and I've had to weld a tab in for the 2nd. I wasn't too happy about welding in to cast but because of the tabs location there's no way it can move out of situ even if the weld failed. But it won't fail, I hit it with 150A.

Assembly shows everything to be working fine. I need to order some 14mm bolts for the damper and fathom out what thread those caliper bolts are so I can order a tap. They're not metric. 7/16" OD or there abouts. 20tpi ish. I'll measure them tomorrow. Anyone know what they are ?

**Scoff** · 08-10-2011, 20:55

I measured, theyre 7/16 UNF.

edit: fail, they're M12 x 1.25mm for future reference !

**5teve L** · 08-10-2011, 21:02

Good stuff, be interesting to see how you get on with the new set up, fair play for chopping & welding stuff like brakes & suspension, would scare the

out of me that I'd get it wrong !

**Scoff** · 08-10-2011, 21:11

My whole car is held together with "aftermarket" weld

Perfectly safe as long as your confident of the weld

**Bruce - BHPerformance** · 09-10-2011, 02:50

"I wasn't too happy about welding in to cast but because of the tabs location there's no way it can move out of situ even if the weld failed. But it won't fail, I hit it with 150A."

My rear axle on the megane maxi has just been cut stretched and rewelded using arc and dissimilar metal rods as the mig welds were cracking although my mig only goes up to 130amp.

Solid now though.

**Scoff** · 12-10-2011, 12:09

Having received the 7/16 UNF taps I checked them against the bolt. Close but not right. A re-measure shows the bolts to be M12 x 1.25

Project on hold again until new taps arrive.

**Ashy** · 12-10-2011, 13:09

[quote=Scoff;237054]But it won't fail, I hit it with 150A.
[quote]

Its not about how much heat you put into cast iron its more a case of how quickly you allow the heat out. You should really pre-heat the whole job, carry out the welding and then allow it to cool in a furnace, or failing that a bucket of dry sand... Its also better, believe it or not, to use a lower amp setting on your welder as it introduces less stress into the material!

Why can't you use 172 calipers anyway?

**Scoff** · 12-10-2011, 13:22

Hmmn, maybe in the world of the proffessional, but whenever I've attacked cast with low current and mild wire in the past it doesn't work too clever. All I do is heat the lump I'm welding with the torch (because if you don't you don't get penetration until the work is hot from the weld, and cracking when it cools!) and then go at it with big current. About 160A gets the whole lot glowing cherry and the welds "seem" to be pretty good. I agree that it does sound a bit dubious but I'm confident there won't be a problem.

172 calipers and discs are too big to go behind the 13".

**Scoff** · 14-10-2011, 23:55

Some progress tonight, I got a 172 hub mounted with modified damper brackets and wishbones. Tracked it up and checked the camber. All good and no odd-looking effects when steering because of the extended damper ears. Got a shaft done for that side too. 172 CV's are lots better looking than the GT ones. Ball bearing CV instead of the naff 3 finger thing that keeps breaking. Also the shafts are still hollow. I heard they were solid. That suites me, easier to join. It's one piece though, no brittle cast bit and spline at the outer end. So far it looks promising !

the bay as it looks these days:

**5teve L** · 15-10-2011, 10:36

Good work Chris

Should be ready for the last outing @ Pod by the looks of it.

I'll be looking into 172 shafts I think if mine go, the ones on the car look so flimsy &

, with the 19 being wider they may fit right in without many mods as well.

**Andrew Cooke** · 15-10-2011, 13:14

nice job

My N/S 172 shaft was solid, and hard as fook too.

Check how many threads of engagement you have on that trackrod end, I had to extend mine.

**Andrew Cooke** · 15-10-2011, 13:18

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Good work Chris

Should be ready for the last outing @ Pod by the looks of it.

I'll be looking into 172 shafts I think if mine go, the ones on the car look so flimsy &

, with the 19 being wider they may fit right in without many mods as well.

They may well be the right length, my R19 shafts were the large diameter like my GTT ones, I bought 2 pairs in case I needed a spare at the track.

**Scoff** · 15-10-2011, 13:40

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

nice job

My N/S 172 shaft was solid, and hard as fook too.

Check how many threads of engagement you have on that trackrod end, I had to extend mine.

I already did, I wouldn't leave that to chance. Its good on that side, but there's a chance there will be less on the other side, the rack may not have been 100% centered to begin with.

Both of my 172 shafts are hollow so there must be different versions out there

**Scoff** · 15-10-2011, 22:39

I got both hubs done tonight. Just awaiting the m12 x1.25mm tap. Here's a picture of the new mounting locations for the GT calipers. One hole sits nicely on existing material while the other is a piece I've welded in.

**jamie_clioGTT** · 16-10-2011, 17:43

Ledgend! That has by far got to be the prettyist engine bay I've ever seen! Your 5 is a credit to you and I hope all your hard work and dedication pays off on the strip in the near future! Wish you all the luck in the world mate!

**gtmatt** · 16-10-2011, 20:11

Originally Posted by Scoff

I got both hubs done tonight. Just awaiting the m12 x1.25mm tap. Here's a picture of the new mounting locations for the GT calipers. One hole sits nicely on existing material while the other is a piece I've welded in.

U should of said could of picked it up and done that for u mate , any thing engineering taps dyes give us a shout matt

**Scoff** · 16-10-2011, 22:21

Cheers matt, I should have thought. Tap should be here tomorrow so we should be fine.

I've measured up and realised I'll be able to run a bracket behind the caliper to brace the new mounting points to the remaining original hole, so that'll remove some of the worry I had about welding the cast.

A bit more progress tonight. Both dampers done, ball joints in properly and both hubs ready to go. One more shaft to put togehter and it'll be back together.

I noticed one of the dampers had started to bend the ears bit. IE the hub had twised the the brackets on the bottom of the damper. Only one side. I straightened that as I extended it. I've braced the tops with 4mm plate to stop it from twisting again.

**Scoff** · 17-10-2011, 23:00

**TNT ANDY** · 18-10-2011, 06:36

Originally Posted by Scoff

Looking good Chris - is there any adjustment in all of this or is it all precision made??? I'm thinking Camber here.

**Scoff** · 18-10-2011, 13:03

Nah its fixed this time round. Before I had elongated holes in the coilovers. I didn't bother doing that again because I don't imagine I'll be using the car round a race track anytime soon.

I do have some adjustment still because I have extra holes in the turret tops. I tend to just leave it alone though.

**Scoff** · 12-01-2012, 13:35

Not much movement here for the past few months with business stuff taking over but the new turbo arrived recently and the engine refresh parts are on their way

**rs250nut** · 12-01-2012, 13:42

Nice turbo mate, 6766?

**Scoff** · 12-01-2012, 13:45

Yes, not sure I believe the hype about the 66mm turbine but it can't be any worse than a 65

**stu21t** · 12-01-2012, 14:18

Is it one of the triple/ceramic bearing ones that dont need oil?

Looks very pretty lol.

**Scoff** · 12-01-2012, 14:30

Its a double ceramic ball bearing thing. It needs oil still, no water. Billet compressor wheel and a modernised "CEA" turbine wheel. There is a 4wd EVO in the US running this type of turbo going low 9's at 166mph. Plenty of SFWD honda's putting in mid 9's. Some guys have recorded over 900hp on them, which might be a bit ott but they're good for 850hp and 45psi of boost

**stu21t** · 12-01-2012, 14:59

Hahaha i NEED 1 of them in mine!

**TNT ANDY** · 12-01-2012, 18:19

Make sure you've got a good air tight boost run Mr S

**Hi 5** · 12-01-2012, 20:53

looks pritty when is it time for gas lol

**allanr5gtt** · 13-01-2012, 00:14

Originally Posted by Hi 5

looks pritty when is it time for gas lol

**p30esteves** · 08-08-2012, 22:46

Do you have any news with new Turbo set up?

**Scoff** · 08-08-2012, 23:27

Hi pedro, not yet sorry, work has been very busy this year and the car hasn't moved since october. But I've been collecting parts all year, the engine bits are sat there and ready to go. I have a new cage on the way and hopefully I'll be able to order the dog gears I need over winter. The car is booked in for a re-spray inside and out next month with a new roof skin to get rid of the sunroof, then it's off for a full colour company wrap. It'll be out again next year. I can spend the quiet winter building and tuning the motor. I have a lot of ECU related tricks up my sleeve too and I'm really looking forward to some quick passes next year

**p30esteves** · 10-08-2012, 00:19

We will wait and see the beast at Santa POD next year

**Scoff** · 10-08-2012, 01:24

Thanks, I've missed it a lot this year but it's helped me save money for the bits I need if I'm going to do the job properly

**Goobie** · 04-12-2012, 14:05

Great build, anything more on this or was it sold in the end?

**Scoff** · 04-12-2012, 16:33

Originally Posted by Goobie

Great build, anything more on this or was it sold in the end?

Getting there, this year has been a no hoper with the business but lots of things going on with it currently in preperation for next year. At this moment in time it's at john sleath race cars having the cage built. Next stop is paint. Hopefully back with me for late Jan ready for engine and box.

Regards sold, I've had it 15 years nearly, it won't be sold any time soon

**Trevhib** · 06-12-2012, 10:43

I see Andrew Cooke is no longer an RTOC member. Did we lose him to that break-away group?

Looking forward to your next update Chris.

**Goobie** · 09-12-2012, 16:03

I'm liking the gearbox mod, have been toying with similar idea but possibly the VW/Audi DSG box. Flappy steering wheel paddles and/or straight gear level stick to manually up/down shift no clutch faster gear change blar blar, mainly cheaper option to a dog box if you like. Could be one for the drag strip or have you already looked into this and not worth the trouble?

**Tutuur** · 09-12-2012, 16:40

Dogbox's ftw on 1/4mile!

http://youtu.be/6UPRjsl-QOI

**Goobie** · 09-12-2012, 18:15

Originally Posted by Tutuur

Dogbox's ftw on 1/4mile!

http://youtu.be/6UPRjsl-QOI

That is one crazy car! Be awesome if that kit was in a mk1

**Scoff** · 09-12-2012, 21:54

Originally Posted by Tutuur

Dogbox's ftw on 1/4mile!

http://youtu.be/6UPRjsl-QOI

Thats the one

I'm using the same SQS dog gears and gearbox, only mine is a 2wd case of course. He and a few other VAG guys in europe are having good results with SQS. My friend has the same gear set in his 9sec scirocco, he bought the sequential shifter, and accidentally shifted from 2nd to first on the strip forgetting he had to pull back to grab 3rd. Wasted the engine of course. I don't fancy that, I'll stick to H pattern. !

**Penfold aka The Dealer** · 09-12-2012, 22:01

Originally Posted by Scoff

Thats the one

I'm using the same SQS dog gears and gearbox, only mine is a 2wd case of course. He and a few other VAG guys in europe are having good results with SQS. My friend has the same gear set in his 9sec scirocco, he bought the sequential shifter, and accidentally shifted from 2nd to first on the strip forgetting he had to pull back to grab 3rd. Wasted the engine of course. I don't fancy that, I'll stick to H pattern. !

Ouch thats an expensive mistake...

**GTphil** · 10-12-2012, 14:40

ouch! Would be quite tough to get used to in all fairness and at those speeds it all happens rather quickly

**JRP** · 10-12-2012, 16:30

Originally Posted by Trevhib

I see Andrew Cooke is no longer an RTOC member. Did we lose him to that break-away group?

Looking forward to your next update Chris.

Breakaway group? Pm as not to clutter good thread

**Scoff** · 10-12-2012, 16:33

Originally Posted by JRP

Breakaway group? Pm as not to clutter good thread

Is that a confectionary club ? Nah I think Andy just got bored. He used to pop up on Cliosport from time to time. Not so much anymore.

**Trevhib** · 11-12-2012, 09:27

Confectionery group? You mean the Club?

Ok, thanks for clearing that up in regards to Andy. Disappointed not to have seen the conclusion of that little Twingo

**Matt Cole** · 09-03-2014, 19:55

We could do with an update Scoff!

**Goobie** · 09-03-2014, 21:34

Originally Posted by Matt Cole

We could do with an update Scoff!

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