National Day 2011 Discussion - What do members Want?

[IANMM]

i wouldnt put my car on the track.......far too many variables for something to go wrong its a car i use every day and i have spent ££££££s on it

its not the engine side i worry about its the body work or my wheels getting fecked up now i wouldnt mind if i had a track sl*g but again its getting it there so thats a trailer and something to pull it........

if i span my car into the tyre wall i would be gutted the amount of money it would have cost would be ridiculous....

i like POD straight line one other car to worry about simple easy fun

[IANMM]

I've been thinking about popping along to a RWYB this year, feel free to arrange something

now, is it Long Marston, Avon Park, or Shakespeare Raceway this week

i will do...scoff mentioned he might be going so i will arrange it arround that

going to give the old girl some grief before i strip her down for the rebuild over the winter months

[rat1]

No, not a no overtaking rule, but everyone should give those with the novice stickers in their back windows some more room?

i agree with this but think the morning session limited to members only.as i haven't had the gtt on the road for long i was unsure of what it capable of,when i finally got out i spent more time pulling over to let people pass and came back in after only 1/2 hour .

[SP33DY]

Reading through all of the above does raise some interesting points, yes in an ideal world it would be exclusively Renault Turbos. However the reality is that the club is predominatley percieved as a 5 GT Turbo owners club, even now whenever I mention the club and that I'm a member people ask me why as I don't have a 5

Other factors are that Renault in the last 10 years has only produced the Megane Sport which is a turbo vehicle (yes there has been lagunas, vel satis, espace but I don't think they'll be joining up here for trackdays and tuning tips ), that is obviously a far cry from the 80's when every model had a turbo flagship. Yes there is a number of custom Renaults retro fitted with turbo engines but to be truthfull it seems the Renault Turbo breed is dieing out

So the option is (as I know has already been raised) open the doors fully to Renault Sports models. Realistically how hard could it be to add a normally aspirated section for the lads who love throttle bodies, cams etc....?

Track time wise I'll be honest, this was my first ever car trackday, however I do loads of bike trackdays and run mid to front in the quick group. But even I was a little intimadated before going out in my first session as even despite the weather, people were flying .
I'm with Andrew C and think that a novice session at the beginning of the day would be a great idea, you could run a half hour session for complete novices, then a further half hour for people who've been on track before but haven't been to Mallory. You could even allow the complete novices from the first 30min session to stay out in the second half hour to help build confidence. With a bit of help from the marshalls anyone found taken the p1ss could be black flagged and removed from the session.

As for track etiquette as mentioned this was my first car track day but I'll be honest apart from the two cars Mart mentioned I found everyone else to be pretty considerate, it was certainly alot tamer than an average bike trackday.
I did also think the brief was extremely poor and didn't realise that there was no overtaking in the corners and proceded to overtake loads of people in the bends. Apologies on that front.

Despite that I still had a great day and honestly don't think the organisers are to far from the mark, with a few tweaks to make it less intimadating it should be another awesome day.

Steve

[Mart]

Ok, maybe my previous 'cr8p' in general comment was unfair. Yes, the majority of people on track were ok, although I did also have a moment with the stickered-up Impreza who, after I had overtaken him on the back straight, then tried to come up the inside & over-take before the hairpin If it weren't for me anchoring up & going wide at the hairpin, he'd have taken me out side on

I'm glad that it's not just me that was peed off about the Spider & yellow VX220 antics on track.

For sure, the marshalls need to 'toughen up' and there needs to be a more detailed drivers' briefing.

[Andrew Cooke]

i wouldnt put my car on the track.......far too many variables for something to go wrong its a car i use every day and i have spent ££££££s on it

I'm only picking on you because you replied, not because you need singling out (actually I think you speak for the missing majority).

You'll use it daily on the road with potholes, curbs, shopping trolleys, uninsured nutters in Saxos, but the track is too risky? Do you think you'll suddenly lose the ability to steer because there are no cats eyes in the road?

Presumably you've occasionally been tempted to give it a bit around an empty roundabout once in a while? What's so different to a track?

Would you do a convoy run around Silverstone? How about Mallory?

Would you drive around the track if noone else was there?

[IANMM]

I'm only picking on you because you replied, not because you need singling out (actually I think you speak for the missing majority).

You'll use it daily on the road with potholes, curbs, shopping trolleys, uninsured nutters in Saxos, but the track is too risky? Do you think you'll suddenly lose the ability to steer because there are no cats eyes in the road?

Presumably you've occasionally been tempted to give it a bit around an empty roundabout once in a while? What's so different to a track?

Would you do a convoy run around Silverstone? How about Mallory?

Would you drive around the track if noone else was there?

ha ha ha.......i know where this is going

and yeah my front bumper and side archs show the war wounds of our lovely roads.....but i know what your saying...yes i do her some beans but only in the dry as my car in the rain is a nightmare on boost....

i think my problem is i have never done a track day....never drove on a track....so do i wish my first experience to be in my car that owes me 10k from her make over....

if i had a car that owes me a few hundred thats where i would like to start my track day experiences with

[Andrew Cooke]

i think my problem is i have never done a track day....never drove on a track....so do i wish my first experience to be in my car that owes me 10k from her make over....

I think that sums it up, many of these cars have an emotional value way beyond their worth. I'd rather be on track with you in your 5 than that banger you mentioned, I don't want to get mixed up in your over exuberance...

[DaveMayGTT]

Andrew has hit the nail on the head. I read the boards pretty much every day when i'm bored at work and love the idea of going to the national days but the fact is I dont want to get out on track for the first time and just feel like i'm pissing people off by going slowly or not taking a corner properly, feeling like I have to give it some as going slowly is probably more dangerous when everyone is approaching at speed behind you and then damaging my own or someone else's car.
If there was novice time on track with whatever rules everyone thinks is best i would come along.
As for the renault and non renault debate I think it should be kept mostly renault but as long as tickets are just sold to members here we cant go too far wrong.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I'm probably the same about my Raider to a certain extent but I do like to use it rather than just sit their polishing it.

It would be a nice sight to have a relaxed session for just Renault Turbo's so those of us who have brought their pride & joy can have a session or two on track?

Trouble would be how would you get people to pay up for an hour or so track session?? And would people pay up for it up-front?

To answer the question that was raised in this post, I didn't bring my Raider to this event becasue I bought my Clio Track Slag & couldn't justify the cost of bringing the Raider what with petrol & stuff?

[car.crash]

I think I speak for most if not all track day drivers that novices and slow coaches don't annoy us. It's the idiots who don't use their mirrors and don't move over or cut you up that get our piss boiling. If your slower than the car behind just move over when its safe and hold your line in a corner and don't panic.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I think I speak for most if not all track day drivers that novices and slow coaches don't annoy us. It's the idiots who don't use their mirrors and don't move over or cut you up that get our piss boiling. If your slower than the car behind just move over when its safe and hold your line in a corner and don't panic.

WHOLEHEARTIDLY!!

Not once did I get annoyed if I came up behind someone, the problem comes when someone's crawling all over your back bumper & your waiting to find the right point to pull over & let them pass.

I would always pull over on the straights as thats the safest place to pass, you have to hold your line on the corners otherwise you can be in a whole world of FAIL!

[Mart]

I dont want to get out on track for the first time and just feel like i'm pissing people off by going slowly or not taking a corner properly

If the other drivers did feel peed off because of that, they shouldn't be out on track. Period.

It's not a race, and it's not a contest to be the quickest on track. Everyone should be driving within their limits, having 'fun' driving on track, but learning to improve your driving technique at the same time. Sure, there's nothing wrong with pushing yourself/the car a bit more as the day goes by, but just be wary of having an off if you start getting too hairy.

If you read back through this thread (and other threads on the ND), no-one has commented/moaned at people going slowly, taking the wrong line, or anything like that; more so just the idiots that want to 'race', won't move over/ease off when being over-taken, and basically the "I'm alright Jack, bollox to everyone else" attitude when on track.

[Mart]

Damn, too slow at typing again old man

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Perhaps we should have overtaking places(ie: on straights, and no over taking coming into & on the bends etc...

[Big Steve - Raider]

Perhaps we should have overtaking places(ie: on straights, and no over taking coming into & on the bends etc...

I thought that was the case?

I agree that the briefing was a bit.... brief this year!

[D4WNO]

One thing I'd like to do is perhaps provide a token to those who pay to go on track. Only once they can show me and the other sign-on guys a signed form saying they have attended track briefing and understand etc, do we swap that token for a wristband.

We'll be putting the bands on too as there were far too many people who had their bands on extremely loosely, obviously to share with their mates (pikies - it's a cheap track day as it is)

This way, we will know everyone on track has attended the briefing that that people aren't taking the mick. We can very easily have a word with the marshalls and ask them to be more strict

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I thought that was the case?

I agree that the briefing was a bit.... brief this year!

It maybe the case, but mallory marshalls are not strict...



As seen here....

[DaveMayGTT]

If the other drivers did feel peed off because of that, they shouldn't be out on track. Period.

It's not a race, and it's not a contest to be the quickest on track. Everyone should be driving within their limits, having 'fun' driving on track, but learning to improve your driving technique at the same time. Sure, there's nothing wrong with pushing yourself/the car a bit more as the day goes by, but just be wary of having an off if you start getting too hairy.

If you read back through this thread (and other threads on the ND), no-one has commented/moaned at people going slowly, taking the wrong line, or anything like that; more so just the idiots that want to 'race', won't move over/ease off when being over-taken, and basically an "I'm alright Jack, bollox to everyone else" attitude when on track.

I'm sure you're right m8, its probably worse for the noobs like me imagining it than it is actually being out there which is where a bit of novice time on track would set up for an easy intro and then enjoy the whole day with the more experienced drivers.

[Robbo]

could we not do a grand prix type of thing that ppl could enter? fastest lap fastest 10 laps different league for beginners and more experienced...????

just an idea

i know you dont want too make it too competitive but a bit of friendly rivalry?

dont think you could do this as its then classed as racing. At the end of the day alot of people have different ideas of what they want to do with there cars, personally i really dont want to take a chance and end up stuffing or someone smashing my raider on track which is why i bought the £275 green clio rsi.

[Mart]

One thing I mentioned in the AGM, is that I thought 115 (I think that was the number mentioned) cars is far too many for a small track such as Mallory.

If the weather had been dry/good, I dread to think how busy the pitlane would've been waiting for cars to go out on track.

As a comparison, and again was mentioned at the AGM, the MLR hosted a Spa trackday earlier in the year - That was limited to 200 cars, and even though a lap of Spa is 4.3 miles in length, there were still queues to get out on track, which subsequently resulted in quite a fair bit of flack being aimed at the trackday organisers.

Now if that's the case with 200 cars on a 4.3 mile circuit, can you imagine the queue potential at Mallory, which is a 1.3 mile lap (in the config' we were driving), with 115 cars waiting to go on track.

Just some food for thought if you're planning on inviting all & sundry for next year's ND...

[leesaunders1981]

I would also like to mention the driver of the blue M3 who was overtaking on the right and then overtook on the red flag.... maybe it was the only was the only way he could get past the 5 or he just didnt know the rules......

[car.crash]

All we need is stricter marshals and a proper mornings briefing like every other track and to keep an eye on ticket sales wondering in bulk to other clubs and somone checking bands when heading into the pits, ie put the club stand next to the entrance and no car goes through untill they have shown the band. If novices are scared to go out then give them the first 30 mins of the day for free to get familiar with the track. If they like it then they can buy a ticket if they don't they can join the bucket brigade but dividing it up f1 style and into slow and fast groups won't work as no one will enforce it and no one will know what group to be in. There are also plenty of passenger seats empty if anyone wanted to come out and see what it's about before bringing their own car.

[Mart]

I'm sure you're right m8, its probably worse for the noobs like me imagining it than it is actually being out there which is where a bit of novice time on track would set up for an easy intro and then enjoy the whole day with the more experienced drivers.

Totally agree mate. I've always said that an hour or so should be put aside for track 'newbies' only, which should help give them confidence to then drive the track when everyone else goes on. I see no reason why the first hour of the day couldn't be put aside for that scenario, but that's just my opinion.

And then when everyone does come out to play, the marshalls should be on the ball with the blue & black flags.

The picture that Chris posted above pretty much sums up their lackadaisical attitude this year...

[Ashy]

Now if that's the case with 200 cars on a 4.3 mile circuit, can you imagine the queue potential at Mallory, which is a 1.3 mile lap (in the config' we were driving), with 115 cars waiting to go on track.

Not as bad if the track was restricted to 20 year old renaults. Most people go out for 10 laps max then spend 30 mins waiting for their cars to cool down before going back out.

Its a different senario once the track is clogged up with more modern cars that can stay out all day without any issues.

[Mart]

Is that the case though mate? I didn't see or hear of any major mechanical issues this year, and for sure, with previous 'normal' trackdays there hasn't been a problem where a GTT has had to come in, cool down, then go back out.

I thought the days of hot-running GTT's (even on track) were long since gone...

[BigWilly425]

The decision perhaps needs to be made about how to cater for all types, some may want to take their car on and drive at 60/70% of their limit, others will want to be much closer to 100%....
I would love to take the Williams back on track but I am more worried about someone taking me out.. I am sure other RTOC members would also like to have the oportunity to use their pride and joy but are worried about the consequences on any accident.. a lot of these cars are now irreplaceable...
Likewise, if the weather had been dry I am sure you would have seen more cars out on track and that really would have been interesting...

[Ian S]

What stopped the missing majority of club members from being there?

They are simply not interested.

Or can't afford it.

Or are busy.

Most people join to find out how to fix or keep their car going, especially if they just bought one (5GTT).

Last time we counted up, it was about 400 that don't rejoin each year.

[Big Steve - Raider]

We're back to the chicken & egg situation here..

We restrict numbers to have a nice open trackday for the club but charge £100 per person for the event & no one buys tickets so we make a loss.

We keep the pricing low to attract the members & tempt people to have a go, then the event sells well & people complain we have sold too many passes to non members in Renaults but the club breaks even??

I personally would be all up for £100 per person & restrict the numbers to say 80 people all day & anyone with no link to either Renault or the RTOC can do one?! However I also know that theirs a lot of people who won't be able to justify £100 for a track pass for a day?

Difficult.

I'm loving all the comments coming in & will deffo be referencing this thread next year when we come to organising ND 2011

[JRP]

Is that the case though mate? I didn't see or hear of any major mechanical issues this year, and for sure, with previous 'normal' trackdays there hasn't been a problem where a GTT has had to come in, cool down, then go back out.

I thought the days of hot-running GTT's (even on track) were long since gone...

[Bigfoot]

I know I didn't go to this years ND but have been to all previous ones since being a member, I always thought ND was a day of RTOC members coming together and enjoying a day in a location. We always go about saying we are a non-profit club, but theres always a push to get numbers up at these events, inviting non members or ones which are just signing up to get a cheap track day. Membership is here to cover events, if we make a profit on this, plus then we start doing this for santa pod, and invite other people just to make up numbers, will can start running events every weekend throughout the year. And still make money, isn't this taking away the idea of the 1 event each year where a group of us join up together and enjoy the weekend.

Or are we looking at making profit, then next year do a big track event and look at other places and maybe not make a profit but have a better event.

[Mart]

...no one buys tickets so we make a loss...

Since when has the National Day been about making a profit?

This has been mentioned many times before - The club isn't a business, and providing the coffers are looking rosy each year, it shouldn't be a worry if the club doesn't make a profit from the ND's.

I'm well aware that we can't throw money willy nilly at Mallory (and Pod), as eventually the coffers will be akin to Mother Hubbard's cupboard, but it seems, to me anyway, that again too much emphasis is being made on making money/a profit on the day, rather than keeping the member's interests & the reason(s) we're here to heart.

From what Miller said at the AGM, we have ~£10k/£11k already in the coffers, so Mallory & Pod already look good for next year, and that's without taking into consideration any membership fees & ticket sales from over the next 11 months.

Anyway, that's slightly going off on a tangent...

[Big Steve - Raider]

You're right in what you say Dale, the RTOC is not a profit making club and we hold the ND to bring everyone together but if we just think of us regular members all the time & keep making a loss on every event then it won't take long for the coffers to become empty & were in Sh1t street!

Personally I think the club should not make a loss on everything we do as it makes the club stronger when we have a bit of something behind us!

I know you weren't their mate but Miller commented at the AGM that during discussions with other clubs regarding signing up to group events the RTOC was the only club who had the money in the bank to sign up to whatever was being proposed their & then. The likes of Cliosport etc are grubbing around with a begging bowl getting the money in the door to then pay things off.

EDIT: Yes Mart, I agree with what your saying. The club can't keep expecting to sustain losses

[Big Steve - Raider]

Since when has the National Day been about making a profit?

This has been mentioned many times before - The club isn't a business, and providing the coffers are looking rosy each year, it shouldn't be a worry if the club doesn't make a profit from the ND's...

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money.

People, let me know what you all think to this scenario:

• The club pays for another Mallory Park & the ticket prices are increased to £100 per car to cover the costs and keep numbers down.
• We only sell 50 tickets or so?
• Those that go to the day have an excellent time becasue the track is all theirs
• But the club loses £4000??

Would that be a success or failure??

[Mart]

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money

It's only a failure if you're looking at it from a money-making point of view - Going on that basis, every previous ND & Pod day has been a failure then...

[stu21t]

I didn't make this years nd as my cars in bits, had it have been workin I would have been there, on track or not.
There's a few things putting me off tracking it,
1 I've never been on track and I'm scared of losing control, or some1 else losing control resulting in an accident.
Me getting over enthusiastic and crashing through pushing my limits/boundaries.
The expectations people have of my car lol. And it not measuring up. Lol

The car is irreplaceable both in terms of sentiment and money, I could never build another and can't bear the idea of totalling it.


A 30min/1hr beginer session on the other hand where I can get used to the car on a track/near it's limits does appeal.

I would however come to support the day/club had it been working.

As for future nat days, if it were £100 for track I wouldn't go on, I'm there for fun not a full on track day.
Maybe offer a half day for half price? I would go for that, meaning more money for the club and more of an appeal for me.

I don't think you can ban non renaults as many club members won't/can't bring their renaults, defo limit it to 1 or 2 tickets per member tho. It makes it more of a club event.
Unless other Renault owners want to come.


I'm not sure why I'm a member on here other than to support the club because it helped me a lot when I was new to R5s. That's not a dig, more of an explanation as to why some people(myself included) are members.
I've not met many other members, and due to various reasons I don't make it to many events, but I always want to lol.

Now I don't use any of the discounts, or really need help with anything, the sales bit is useful tho.
I'm very quiets on the boards but do read them quite a bit, it's nice to have somewhere to go to talk/read about Renault turbos tho. Lol
But I keep renewing for support to keep it going.

[car.crash]

If tickets get near £100 I'm out. It's not a proper trackday so I won't pay that money. I didn't think money was the issue here anyway. I thought it was too many non members coming and our current members in fear of going onto the track?

[Big Steve - Raider]

It's only a failure if you're looking at it from a money-making point of view - Going on that basis, every previous ND & Pod day has been a failure then...

No not at all, disregarding the money for a bit. If the club made a loss then surely it means we must not have offered what the consumer wanted therefore he didn't buy a ticket?

I'm talking from a point of view of "What is the club offering me for ND?"

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money.

People, let me know what you all think to this scenario:

• The club pays for another Mallory Park & the ticket prices are increased to £100 per car to cover the costs and keep numbers down.
• We only sell 50 tickets or so?
• Those that go to the day have an excellent time becasue the track is all theirs
• But the club loses £4000??

Would that be a success or failure??

You forget that althought Mallory colst £9k for Track, camping, security etc etc... the club could bring in

I think the core track club members who go to ND and track days are willing spend upto £100 full day for the track time and i would say there are 50-60 members...

So thats 5-6k maybe a tad bit more, also bring in camping money... £10 per person for the 2 nights (150-200 people? - not sure on the exact figures) but thats £1k-2k...

So really the club would only loose around £1-2k max..

We should also bump up the passenger tickets to the standard £10 fee, maybe £30 for additional drivers?? - could bump up the funds abit more to break even...

[Robbo]

Not as bad if the track was restricted to 20 year old renaults. Most people go out for 10 laps max then spend 30 mins waiting for their cars to cool down before going back out.

Its a different senario once the track is clogged up with more modern cars that can stay out all day without any issues.

no mate its only your car that gets hot, smokes then blow up

[BriC]

Does anyone know how many properly active members we have? Surely it's no way near 1000... more like 150-200 I would have said. And off that, I wouldn't say 80-100 members on track was a bad turnout.

I span out once and it put me off going out again, because like IANMM says... I've put too much time, effort and money into my 5 to write it off on track.

I think that was mainly because of the wet track though. I think I would be much more confident on track, and have a much better feel for the car in the dry. I don't class myself as a novice either. I'm by no means a race driver, but I've been on track a few times, been go karting lots, play lots of racing games (I know it's not real, but gives you a good idea of racing lines, etc)

PS - my car was getting quite warm on track, but I think I know why that is - it doesn't have the cowling around the rad.. it's fine out on the road.

[DaveMayGTT]

surely the club needs to make a profit over all and not just on a single event? I think national day is the only day where members expect that there membership money goes towards it. So count the money on track day passes and attendance add a certain amount of membership fee towards the event and it will even out and then we can make it a RTOC day not a free for all. Unless other overheads take all the membership fee's in which case im talking rubbish

[Mart]

No not at all, disregarding the money for a bit. If the club made a loss then surely it means we must not have offered what the consumer wanted therefore he didn't buy a ticket?

As Ian mentioned above, perhaps it's more so based on the fact that some people simply can't be bothered to attend, or don't have the money to attend, or were elsewhere that weekend (it is August/school holiday after all), or saw the cr8p weather & thought 'bollox to it, I'll stay at home in the warm & dry'.

In comparison to other car clubs, we're relatively small fry. How many current members do we have? 900 odd at a push? Now divide that by how many post/view the threads on here, and thus with those that don't post/view probably weren't even aware of ND & Pod day, then from that, divide again with how many can't be bothered to attend a ND/Pod day anyway (as per the aforementioned reasons), then finally divide by the infamous rtoc 'rule of 3' figure.

In short, I don't think it's anything to do with not offering the 'consumer' what they want. It's just a simple matter of fact that the club doesn't have the numbers to start with in the first place.

[Bigfoot]

Does anyone know how many properly active members we have? Surely it's no way near 1000... more like 150-200 I would have said. And off that, I wouldn't say 80-100 members on track was a bad turnout.

Threads: 13,862, Posts: 155,029, Members: 2,272, Active Members: 875

Not sure what they class as active, im sure its with people logging in within 30 days.

[Bigfoot]

Plus 167 members have logged in today so far and 523 within the month

[5teve L]

I'm gutted I couldn't go as I really wanted to this year.
Anyway my 2p's worth from what I have seen/heard.

: I would like to see 30 mins to 1 hr as a novice of 'novice' tracktime as I assume track is different to the road & I would feel intimidated I think having a car sitting on my bumper, maybe making me push slightly more than I'd like.

: I would be worried about smashing my car, does my insurance cover me on track as it's not a timed event or do you need extra insurance? may be another factor putting people off ?

: I also thought ND was about 'the cars & members', it seems to be heading more toward a full on 'track day' event now. IMO that is the good thing about pod day, you at least get to speak to alot of people as they aren't out on track all day.

: I would have been peeved at alot of other clubs getting in on 'the action' & acting like 'knobs' but I do understand the club has to try to re-coup some costs if members don't buy tickets, but it seems it was a cheap trackday to some clubs... price needs to go up for non-members I think.

Just my thoughts on it as a club member.

[andyrg]

Hi Guys.

We had a great weekend, friday too monday.

i have a Clio mk1 2.0 Turbo. And i joined this club for it being for turbo charged turbo owners, Clio Sport and 16valvers etc do have the forums but not many members have the info on turbos etc, hence why i originaly joined this forum.

regarding the track day at National Day.

1) The camping area was some what very very basic, with no showers or even light son the friday night for the toilet

2) The Track day brief was a total joke, the worse ive had. the Instructions of "no overtaking on corners" soon went out the window with the Ztec Fiesta and the M3's but every one doing it, It made me feel uneasy and not safe, with the weather conditions. were were the black flags ???

3) The ammount of other cars didnt bother me at all even tho the mx5s were also driving a little wild,

4) Overall had a great weekend but i agree about none members should pay more and that track tickets should be purchased before too support the club. I did ask regarding my co driver getting the track time at the members price as we both own the car and both share this username before i ordered the extra ticket, my passanger paid full price

5 ) the dry would have made the track better

Andy

3)

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Andy there are showers(communal), but there in the paddock... although most members dont use/know about them... wait in cue for next year no doubt,

[Big Steve - Raider]

Andy there are showers(communal)

Yeah they're proper School Stylee showers alright!!!

No hiding behind a shower screen in their I can tell you?!

We'll have to splash out on an official bar of RTOC Soap to share round!

[Andrew Cooke]

We'll have to splash out on an official bar of RTOC Soap to share round!