At least he didn't post it in your "career advice" thread Jay
At least he didn't post it in your "career advice" thread Jay
Originally Posted by D4WNO
Well, just as suspected. Adam has fitted the turbo to a 5GTT this evening (in his own spare time, 3 hours of it) and the car ran sweet as a nut! They took it to 14 psi with no issues. As he is so sick of this ongoing saga he has even taken photos and videos of it running. Raj, Adam wants a call first thing in the morning if you can please, office opens at 8Well least thats answered one question then. Fair play to Adam for trying it in his own time.
Now whats got me confused is why does it work fine on one car but does nothing on another.
Something got to be wrong somewhere on the engine Raj although i can't work out what from what i saw.
i think it might be cam timing, i tried turboteds unti once and didnt get full boost untill over 7k yet he got full boost at around 3.5k. he had a 285 and i had a 370 cam.
wow,, didnt know cam timing could have that much difference on turbo boost... :P
advance the cam timing boost comes in alot earlier and power finishes around 6500rpm
retard the cam timing it comes late but power all the way to 8500rpm
interesting.. cos i feel for the turbo i have it spools late (4500 jst about reaches full boost) and finnishes off early (say 6100rpm at 20psii) :Pany ideas?
small turbo retarded timing?
a full t28 0r t25 should boost off the clock all day longinteresting.. cos i feel for the turbo i have it spools late (4500 jst about reaches full boost) and finnishes off early (say 6100rpm at 20psii) :P
thats what i thought
Last edited by Slim; 28-09-2010 at 22:55.
Just to show people that I did do this, I photographed the evning and took two videos...
You'll notice we had to cover our bare hands removing the turbo there as it was so hot, as matey's car that I used was going on holiday today so I had to remove the turbo straight after use.
Now, we let the car idle for about 15 minutes to get the engine up to temperature. You can't quite hear it in this video but the turbo was surging when we applied throttle..
The car only has one seat fitted so I took a video of it driving past while at full throttle, I think the video proves that there's nothing wrong with that turbo.
Now, I spent 3 hours of my own time last night proving this to everyone. There's a long story behind this turbo and none of it was mine or the company I work for fault.
I was sent an old well used turbo Raj bought off ebay, a tomcat unit, with no actuator, bracket, recirc valve. Basically a bare turbo to rebuild.
So, Raj's first complaint was the compressor housing had been rotated slightly too much, ok minor mishap. Also the turbo was producing boost but nothing over 4psi, so I replied with send it back and i'll check it out. I moved the housing into the correct position for him. The boost issue was because he had such a long actuator rod with not enough thread on it the wastegate was permanently open by about 4-5mm. Remember, I didn't fit any of this. I didn't sort out the actuator because I was so dissapointed by what I saw I refused to touch it. I did send the turbo back free of charge though.
A few months down the line I get another shout from Raj saying now there's no boost atall. This time Ian Nixon send me the turbo. I checked it as thouroughly as I could possibly could and found a freshly tapped and drilled hole in the compressor housing that had gone all the way through, it was like a pin prick. Raj areed to have the housing changed for the conventional type, which is what you see in the pictures.
Ian Nixon phoned me back on Friday last week and said there was no difference to the cars performance. He also went back on a few things he said he'd checked, which it turns out he hadn't. He phoned me today and I told him what i'd done last night, Ian's reply was basically to call me a liar. I'm sorry but when someone takes the piss like that I just won't have it. I told Ian that I don't want anything to do with this anymore and I want the carriage sorted out.
As it stands the turbo is wrapped up, in full working order and ready to be sent back to Raj when he calls me.
Raj, I've even posted footage of that turbo on a car, is that nothing to go by?
i just like to say that i had a lot of turbos built by adam and george at turbo developments and they have always been very helpful with me and all there turbos have been perfect, the problem is how you fit it and set up correctly with your engine.
TURBO DEVELOPMENTS
i just like to say that i had a lot of turbos built by adam and george at turbo developments and they have always been very helpful with me and all there turbos have been perfect, the problem is how you fit it and set up correctly with your engine.
TURBO DEVELOPMENTS
Well the one i had for the Raider is fine!
Raj, i really dont think Adam is trying to stripe you up?
Raj, I know you're frustrated, you're not the only one.
If you think back though, quite a few months ago, when the turbo was producing boost, 4psi you told me. What work had been done to the car since? Something has definatley happened in that space of time for it to run none now even with the wastegate clamped shut with good preload on the actuator.
Yes, Ian does have a good reputation with building engines, but between Adam and his boss, they have something like 27 years of experience specifically with working/building/rebuilding turbos etc...what's the difference?
Adam is very much in the position to give you 100 turbos for nothing if he wanted to, but there is nothing wrong with the one you have. It's been proven on video, how else could you possibly want him to prove this to you?!
The whole thing is ridiculous now. Adam has no reason to "pull your pants down", what a ridiculous statement. Why would he, what would he get out of it? If anyone knows turbos, it's a company that was built from the ground up over 20 years ago, created for this purpose. I really am at a loss here
I totally understand your frustration Raj and can see you're stuck in the middle. But can you blame Adam for washing his hands of this?! I'd love to work out the real cost of this in man hours, it'd be a fortune! Not including the personal time he has taken to look at this to try and finally end it....yet still it goes on. Adam has been nothing but professional about this so far by keeping it off the forums until now, and has even consulted other turbo experts who also see nothing wrong with it. Not once has he ever doubted the turbo. Surely if he wanted to rip you off or something he wouldn't have used his own personal time (OUR personal time), hours after work in the office, been kind enough to send it back to you for nothing or had this constantly on his mind causing stress. No, if he didn't do that he'd have charged you for a brand new turbo, ripped you off and given you back a sh!tter.
sorry to chip in but, could be any car with any turbo. sounds like car and 2 turbos will be coming to your work , that will sort it
Lol yeah, he is aware of this, hence the videos and the close up shots. If Raj wants to bring down 2 cars, the turbo, take a day off work and pay for use of the mechanic then he can see it is his turbo being used. Same goes the other way round, Raj could watch Ian fitting the same turbo to 2 cars, why is this all Adams way?
And what about Adam's question above? That hasn't been answered. Raj, Adam has gone out to see his mates to try and de-stress so he won't read this for a while
Nope. YOU would have to watch it happening with your own eyes, face-to-face. It's the only way for you to see that it is 100% the same turbo going on both cars. Forget all the middle-man nonsense, see it for yourselfIF it came to it, it would be ian bringing the 5 down and swaping units so no cost to me... thank god
well yes i would also be with ian if it came to this
Raj, just to be sure, your saying that the turbo makes no boost whatsoever. So thats 2nd gear on the road, flat out all the way to the redline and there is no descernable boost on the gauge at all ? Or is it just that it's overly laggy, such that it'll make a few psi by 6500rpm, say ?
Lol well there would still be a cost getting Ian to fit it. Adams boss isn't going to let him spend a few hours overseeing all this while they have a business to run. The whole thing is pointless unless you watch the entire thing and either have BOTH people involved in this or NEITHER that know them, not one or the other as that isn't fair.
I've took car out on few occasions when i was up there, its so flat its unreal.
Flooring it in 1st and 2nd built no boost, it prob read max 1psi but the sound and the way the car felt it just wasn't building boost. Due to where he lives obviously couldn't take it to max revs but took it high enough, past at least 5k which should of at least still felt like it was building boost even if it hadn't reached full boost.
It really did feel like there wasn't a turbo fitted to the car.
I have no doubt on Adams work just to put my point in, i've had so many turbos done by him i can't fault him so have no doubt he's correctly saying the turbo is fine.
fancy selling it now without the turbo
Did Ian comment on how well the T2 was spooling ? Laggier than normal ? Or boosting away at 2500rpm ?
If this is to do with the spec of the turbo, the only way to verify for sure would be to fit a different like spec turbo and run it again.
What spec is Adams car compared to Raj same or different cam etc? If the turbo is making good boost on another car, then by elimination, we can say that the turbo is working correctly. It may be the wrong spec for your set up?
Do you know what AR the turbine is?
A 'standard' rover unit should be fine on a gtt, I've done a couple now.
I know CR turbo did do a few with larger wheels for a couple of people on Rovertech but I thought that was just for the racers...
Maybe the turbo is to big for a STD cam then and if you have had the top taken off the pistons it will be lower comp. As I said robbies unit that came from
TD wouldn't boost on my car untill over 7k I mean zilch not a single psi then it would suddenly fire up at 7.5k yet on his car it would boost at 3.5k roughly. Every member round his way has also had lots of dealings with TD and no issues either.
What type/size of exhaust system you have?
Maybe it is too freeflow and as the turbine housing a/r is much bigger than a std. unit it couldn't produce any boost...
this is getting interesting now
Good news everyone. Ive been in Rajs car and its now working fine with the latest iteration of the tubo fitted :-)
so what was the problem?
I got a phone call from Ian earlier, he told me he recieved turbo back, bolted it on and it was boosting.
Not too sure whats changed since then but he didn't mention anything.
2nd hand turbos are they worth it?
By the wat Raj a very nice car, looks great, goes well and sounds racey
I was picking up Doris who has had a new head and clutch fitted in time for my last event. I just might get 3rd in the LDMC Speed championship with a good last weekend 16th 17th October.
I think that the main point here is that ultimately the lads that worked on your car came through for you.
By the way IMO you need to ditch that home made air filter of yours. Its occlusive and potentially could break up and send debris into your turbo.
Where did you get your turbo Russel ?2nd hand turbos are they worth it?
By the wat Raj a very nice car, looks great, goes well and sounds racey
I was picking up Doris who has had a new head and clutch fitted in time for my last event. I just might get 3rd in the LDMC Speed championship with a good last weekend 16th 17th October.
Fom or via Ian. I am sure if Raj had gone to TD and asked for a turbo he wouldnt have had this grief. I am old and have wasted my money in the past but I dont expect you to take any notice.
Well, at least this is finally sorted, i'm actually happy for you, Raj
Regarding Ian and marking the turbo up, what a load of ****ing nonsence that is and he must think myself and my boss (with over 20 years running a turbo company) are total idiots. I'm sorry, but Ian is just making things up now. Like I said, he went back on things he did first time around when I spoke to him on the phone. He hadn't even checked the piping when I spoke to him the second time. Why would I change anything on the turbo when I knew full well there was nothing wrong with the unit?
I produced photo's and video's to show that it was the original turbo, I made a point of getting good visibility of the part number tag on the core, for gods sake.
I said a long while back in this thread that it was physically impossible for that turbo not to produce boost unless there was a serious leak, and i'll stick by that.
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