It wont get to boiling temperature quickerit will just raise the temperature quicker from where it is.
It wont get to boiling temperature quicker
Cold water does not boil faster than hot water. The rate of heating of a liquid depends on the magnitude of the temperature difference between the liquid and its surroundings (the flame on the stove, for instance). As a result, cold water will be absorbing heat faster while it is still cold; once it gets up to the temperature of hot water, the heating rate slows down and from there it takes just as long to bring it to a boil as the water that was hot to begin with. Because it takes cold water some time to reach the temperature of hot water, cold water clearly takes longer to boil than hot water does. There may be some psychological effect at play; cold water starts boiling sooner than one might expect because of the aforementioned greater heat absorption rate when water is colder
please dont think im trying to piss on your chips (so to speak) i'm not , just curiousOriginally Posted by Bigfoot
i am but a simple wood butcher!!!!
time for another ice cold beer
Thats ok mateplease dont think im trying to piss on your chips (so to speak) i'm not , just curious
couldnt agree moreThats ok mate
Well thats my bigger pre rad lost on ebay.can be sutch a tightwad some times. was going to try and get a focus rs pre rad.
but good idea about those turbo coolers all the ford boys use dale.
Mine only set me back £100 I think it was, pipe size is ideal for the CC.Well thats my bigger pre rad lost on ebay.
but good idea about those turbo coolers all the ford boys use dale.
http://www.autospecialists.co.uk/Bla...oduct-751.html
Thats the one I got
I was just looking at that page.
Just checked ebay for any cheapy ones but there's none.
How big is the hose fitting my bigfooted friend?
That I cant remember, speak to that company, they were very helpful when I was after it, and they found out the measurements for me as I needed to make sure it fitted behind the bumper. Im sure the inlet and outlet are just a bit smaller than the diameter of the pace pump outlet, only by a couple of mm though.
mmmmmmm bugger I'm needing around 19mm as all the pace bits are smaller than the PWR cooler. mmmmm back to search.
Have you thought about looking at bike rads?
I have and have started to pester people on ebay.
Right I've been on a ebay mission have got a Fiat cinquecento rad, a new bosch pump and have some more pipe on the way.
While looking round the tinerweb I've found that I had the kit piped up the wrong way.
http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtop...b57f3&start=90
So have now piped it up with the water exiting the cc going to the rad-header tank-pump- back to the cc but things are are only slightly better.
But now I think the rad is airlocked. I was wondering is it ok the have the flow of water going in the bottom of the rad and then exiting the top so any air locks should go to the header tank. as at the mo it's top to bottom like a 5 rad.
Do you have any overall dimensions for the Fiat rad ?
I need something small for the GTA CC system
This is the one I bought has the size in the ad.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT
but found this seller good as they list the sizes of all the rads they sell. so you find the size then just look for a cheaper one.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/coolpartsuk/m...&_trksid=p4340
Thanks Logg , just bought , size is just about right
Thanks Logg , just bought , size is just about right
It has 32mm oulets so you will need to reduce things to the 19mm of the pwr lines. hopes it works for both of us. but for £30 I thought it's worth a punt.
Right I've now dropped the boost to 12psi and the temps are only slightly better. Only low 60 degrees now but off boost is still the same low to mid 30's. With the temps being 35--38 at 40-60mph driving while off boost but low 30's at under 30mph..
The car feels like it's pulling all the way though the revs rather than dropping off at the top end like it did before at 20psi with 80-90 degree temps.
Would moving the air filter to behind the head light and trying to shield it from the heat of the engine bay make much difference?
If you were stationary, heat soak might show between 45 to 55°C at this time of year.
It would on mine.
Ambient currently might be, what 27°C?
Plus engine bay heat.
The main rad, at 90°C, may be warming up the charge cooler rad a bit at low speeds.
Your pipes and header tank and charge cooler and almost all the water is in the hot engine bay.
Your air filter is sucking in warm / hot air too? Just moving that so it draws ONLY front cool air might drop yours temps a few °C. Someone told me he got, IIRC, 6°C lower by doing that, but with an inter cooler.
If you want cooler temps, maybe a front mounted inter cooler is the way to go?
Rad has just arrived
I've had a change of plan now though so size not so critical ,will mount it up front to get better airflow and more volume . Just need to get 8m of pipe now .
Was the same for me. Shame the rest of ebays sellers take so long.
Rad has just arrived
I've had a change of plan now though so size not so critical ,will mount it up front to get better airflow and more volume . Just need to get 8m of pipe now .
Well last night ambient was around 18-20 but I was getting 28-30 at idle, 30-33 at low speeds 30mph or lower, 33- 39 at any higher speeds with the faster I drove the higher the temp. all off boost.
I'll try moving the pre rad away from the rad.
Theres no gap for the air filter at the front due to the rad being bigger than stock and moved over from when I had the grill mounted cooler. once I have more chargecooler water pipe I'll move the rad back to stock position.
Well moving the pre rad and rad wasn't that simple, as I thought whats the point So moved the rad and fitted my new pre rad. will give it a test later on.
The higher the temp difference between the charged air and cold water the more efficient it will cool. Thats why some drag cars use ice.
Well I'm still having major issues. And have changed so far.
Pace pre rad for a chinq rad.
Pace pump for a Bosch.
All the pipe work is now 19mm.
Header tank relocated to the scuttle area.
Rad ducting fitted.
Tomorrow all being well the car should be going on the rollers for a bit of check and test of bits n bobs. What do people think I should be checking?
My thoughts where that the act gauge is reading correct.
What the pre cooler temps are.
Check the timing.
If anyone else has any helpful ideas or things to check it would be appreciated.
Also thanks to everyone that's helped me so far.
if you're at the Nat day with it and still have problems come and see me.
use your hand to feel which parts of the rad, CC, and pipes are hot and cold. Don't burn yourself...
Thanks for the offer.
I'll try that tomorrow.
That's a lot of open space at the front of the car.
There should be zero open space.
Why is there all that open area where the fog lights go? By having that you're just about switching off your radiators.
Why should any air go through the high flow resistance heat exchangers when it can go through the zero resistance space around them.
It's maybe a mistake to place a normal main rad in front of another normal main rad. The resistance to air flow will be too high?
The manufactures designed those rads to work on their own, not obstructed by another one.
To get sufficient air flow through a double thickness, the vanes per inch would have to be less, maybe halved, ie, twice the gap between the vanes on both front and read rads.
Manufacturers will have formulas for this I expect.
Would it not have been more effective to place the charge cooler rad BESIDE the main rad? Like Renault did with the original inter cooler.
Also, is there a lot of heat soak into the new charge cooler rad a low speeds?
Why not just get a cheap universal fit inter cooler. We know they can work quite well. Even when just placed behind the grill.
Really don't think it's the cooling as I still am getting around the same act as my grill mounted intercooler and now belive there's an underlying problem with my engine set up.
The front bumper is what came on the car when I got it. Have a brand new oe grill and bumper to go on but just need too find a good painter. I did try to make some ducting for the bottom of the bumper but it would of looked gash so have left it till the new one gets fitted. maybe now this will get me off my fat arse o have it done.
The grill area is all blocked off apart from the rads. They are spaced about 1 inch apart with foam around the main rad so any air that goes through the first has no choice but to go through the second.
I've only felt any heat in the new rad after the car has been sat idleing for 10-15 mins. But will see what if feels like after a run on the rollers.
Thanks for your constructive comments.
Is it bad that I solve this issue rather than just moving on like I did from a grill mounted cooler.
Was that intercooler used with all the open space? Now you've closed off much of that the new heat exchangers have an advantage.
Possibly sticky tape on some thick cardboard to the front of the open area just to see if that helps? People have told me that running with all the OE cowling in, but grill out, and 'blocking' the leftwards hole with the OE intercooler, their OE water temp gauge showed lower. Especially when lapping a track.The front bumper is what came on the car when I got it. Have a brand new oe grill and bumper to go on but just need too find a good painter. I did try to make some ducting for the bottom of the bumper but it would of looked gash so have left it till the new one gets fitted. maybe now this will get me off my fat arse o have it done.
The purpose of the seal is to stop air from going around and behind the front cooler, ie, the easiest path, not from leaking away from behind it.The grill area is all blocked off apart from the rads. They are spaced about 1 inch apart with foam around the main rad so any air that goes through the first has no choice but to go through the second.
Is that after the main rad is fully warmed up and at 90°C? Could some of that heat be taken away by the charge cooler circulating water and then given out to the passing air going through the charge cooler?I've only felt any heat in the new rad after the car has been sat idleing for 10-15 mins.
I was thinking that if an an inter cooler wasn't working then that would tell you there are faults else where. Or it would work and that saves you further trouble. Is this charge cooler going to be better than an inter cooler in the end? One advantage is you can switch off the pump in winter and prevent carb freeze. Another is that you can use a slush cooler at the strip. But apart from that, for a front engined car, is it worth the cost and trouble?Is it bad that I solve this issue rather than just moving on like I did from a grill mounted cooler.
I wonder if the turbo is way out of its efficiency thus blowing out extremely hot air, the cc setup may be working fine but unable to cool the charge air enough
With my t28 ive seen a max of 92 deg with my intercooler setup at 22 psi @ manifold.
I know my actuator is set to 24psi & bleeding off some air off the line to make 22 at manifold, i estimate the boost level at the turbo with pressure drop through i/c, pipework, carb etc to be 30+ psi...
Surely the t3 cover/wheel is way out of its efficiency zone at these kind of boost levels.
Still mine hasnt blown up yet so im not worrying. Id imagine it would be hard work to get the act's down to decent levels though without major work.
8psi is a lot to be dropping. I recall Trevor telling me that with the GTTuning 130mm standard position inter cooler in series with the cyber cooler they lost 9psi.
But either on their own would be nearer half that.
I have a t28 fitted with a forge universal front mount in the grill area with 20 psi. Normal driving returns 20- 30 degrees ie just above ambient. Flat out runs slowly creep to 40 at night and had a peak of 60 on a warm afternoon. My airfilter gets very hot so I shall be blanking off the area behind the headlight to save the large ally housing from heatsoak to try and reduce my temps a little but I'm fairly happy with my setup.
My old intercooler was the size of the oe grill. There was no where air to by pass it really.
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php...pictureid=5994
I hated the pipe run and having to use 11 clamps. Also hate the look of intercoolers being on show.
I think I described my ducting wrong. I've got hard plastic either side of my first rad so air can not got round it and have also put insulated foam between the rads so any air that goes through the first rad can not bypass the 2nd.
I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and block the bottom of the bumper off. But isn't a fun job as who ever cut the bumper did a good cutting some crazy shapes.
I shouldn't think it's the turbo as running it at 12psi should of been well inside it's map but still got 60 degree temps. Unless I've got a health sized boost leek in the system.
What turbo are you using logg ??? Is it a full T25 or bigger ??? I think i was messing with my car next to yours at the pod ... i had the blue R5.
I am using a ian s gauage myslef but the first kind he made and my experinces have been that when i used to run a turbo dynamics md84 (t25 comp / t2 turbine enlarged i think ) through a pace intercooler i used to get peak charge temps of 90c on a really hot day and that was at 20psi at wot. When i backed off the gas they used to drop to about 40c.
My new setup is with a gt28r and and 0.49 turbine housing going through a pace chargecooler and the same pace intercooler. On the pod day the outside temps were very high ... maybe even 28c ... on my way home on that day i had a boost leak and couldnt get above 15psi boost ... my peak temps on way home were about 40c. I have found that using the chargecooler gives me a lot more stable charge temps.
I would imagine that the drop in my acts is due to both the chargecooler and also the bigger turbo.
I will take the pace intercooler out and just try it with the chargecooler on its own to see what happens to my charge temps .... when i get time that is.
Hello mate.
I run a 2wd cosworth T3 turbo in a escort rs turbo turbine housing. Maybe I need to go up a size in rear housing?
who says the pace chargecooler rad is bad? and why?
Update time.
Charge cooler has now gone, got fed up with not being able to get it to work and the mess of pipes from it. Cheap eBay intercooler fitted 550mmx225x63mm. ACT are now 4-6 degrees higher then ambient*while normal driving and 15 degrees higher while on boost (20psi) now have carb freeze issues.
Thanks everyone for your help and ideas.
Good info.
Does your car feel faster with the inter cooler and lower temps?
Though, the sudden drop in ambient that we're now having usually does make them faster, so that may blur the comparison.
http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index....in_page=page_3
As it's come up again. May help those seeking advice.
It feels much better feels like it's holding the power all the way through the revs were as it felt like the power use to tail off. The car made 155bhp at 13psi with the charge cooler 60degree act and afr of 10.3. Will wack the boost back down to 13psi when I go back to compare.
Told you CC were ****e on the GTT mate, I went through the same as you but with the pace kit.. but yeah carb freeze is now the issue you have to contend with, lol.
Maybe you could run the CC in-line to boost the temps
Glad you sorted it though
erm... noTold you CC were ****e on the GTT mate, I went through the same as you but with the pace kit.. but yeah carb freeze is now the issue you have to contend with, lol.
Maybe you could run the CC in-line to boost the temps
Glad you sorted it thoughyou did'nt read the above posts then and this link http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index....in_page=page_3
Only thing I didn't try was to move the pre rad to the bottom of the bumper. But by then I was fed up.
I think the main issue was the core was rated to 280bhp. But on what size engine running what boost? More than likely not a 1.4 running 13-20psi. The intercooler I replaced it with is rated to 450bhp. But as normal they never say what engine size or what boost pressure was used. And would say is only just upto the job for my car.
Personally I think chargecoolers & intercoolers should have a temp loss rating not just a bhp flow rating.
Just a thought.
What factory performance car with the engine up front has a charge cooler? I don't think there are many. I have doubts over the 'claimed' benefits of charge cooling over intercooling. I suppose we will have see some hard facts before we can actually see what happens on the GTT.
BTW I have a pwr charge cooler.
Before the chargecooler I was seeing 115-130 degrees after it was peeking at mid 60's on the rollers also the charge cooler water was 28-34 degrees. All figures at 13psi on a august evening. Rolling pointing north by north west
Ohhh.
Ahhh.
We had a toyota celica gt4 RC in a year or so ago for alot of work, that had a charge cooler, but it was special to that limited edition.
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