Good luck today Andy - hope your day goes well.
Good luck today Andy - hope your day goes well.
Hey Andy how did you get on last Tuesday?
not good , got 200bhp at 10 psi, needed a software update on the ecu as it was a bit up down on the switch over on the second bank of injectors and ft lb was pretty poor also
the cams need changing(to much overlap) for standard items or catcams turbo jobbies , but as mentioned its alot of money just for a set of cams
on a more positive note ,found 3 boost leaks on the positive side of the supercharger boost system, supercharger was only producing 3 psi
so things should feel a lot better now
booked in again 17th may
Don't worry fella, we'll get it sorted and making silly power in no timeOriginally Posted by HAndy
not good , got 200bhp at 10 psi, needed a software update on the ecu as it was a bit up down on the switch over on the second bank of injectors and ft lb was pretty poor also
the cams need changing(to much overlap) for standard items or catcams turbo jobbies , but as mentioned its alot of money just for a set of cams
on a more positive note ,found 3 boost leaks on the positive side of the supercharger boost system, supercharger was only producing 3 psi
so things should feel a lot better now
booked in again 17th may
its all about being an optimist... bhp wise, you're halfway there
even if your figures are lower than you want it's still a big achievement to have gotten to the point you are now, after all it's all about trial and error as not many people have gone rear engine, rear wheel drive compound charged 5 gtt, you're setting the standards andy and there will be teething problems but you're driving it which is more than some of us "normal" 5 gt turbo owners are doing
To be fair I don't think anyone has gone rear engine, rear wheel drive and compound charged in a 5 gtt, let alone with a f7p aswelleven if your figures are lower than you want it's still a big achievement to have gotten to the point you are now, after all it's all about trial and error as not many people have gone rear engine, rear wheel drive compound charged 5 gtt, you're setting the standards andy and there will be teething problems but you're driving it which is more than some of us "normal" 5 gt turbo owners are doing
There's a good reason for that - but tbh, if I wanted a dream set up, 350bhp-450bhp rwd mid engine 5 don't get any sexier.
btw handy - for the tuning done, I think you're bang on in respect to power, I'd be a little cautious about changing your cams before attempting the full map.
will be fitting the new exhaust(bigger silencer) on tomorrow and go for another ride out,and book another power run on the dyno next week, just to see if or how much things have improved, if still lacks then the piper cams are coming outand the standard/catcams are going in
sound like a plan?
Andy, do you have the specification of your cams ? You can PM that to me if you prefer not to post it.
I think that anything too wild will always have been a no-no for what you're doing, and my gut feeling would have been to keep the standard cams, but it might be that you could kill some of the overlap through re-timing them.
Asuming you ment flywheel power, 200hp at 10psi says there's something wrong. Were you able to do a power run without boost ? (or a couple psi max ?) 200hp @ 10psi suggests the engine is only making 118hp N/A, which I think is unlikely, so if your N/A pull shows something quite a bit more than that but your boosted pulls are all lacking then it's probably safe to say the problem is in the cams and their timing, as you suspectConversely, if the engine is only making 120hp NA then something else, more fundamental might be to blame.
http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams...=19&engine=112
rw16vpb270h is the cams fitted,
just as a side note-
leak down test was 4% on all 4 cylinders
compression was average between 115 -110 psi across all 4 pistons
hope that helps
just to add there where three boost leaks between the supercharger outlet and the inlet manifold, which of course would'nt have helped, and was getting 120 bhp without turbo
didnt get printout as was to gutted at the time
any idea's of the turbo cam profile that catcams sell
started a thread regarding cams in the f7p tech section ,but only Bigfoot replied
I didn't see that thread Andy, sorry
120hp without the turbo: is that with 3psi from the blower ? Asuming wastegate was wide open at that point, thats a bit confusing because overlap can't be blamed for that.
Did you dial the cams in with a DTI ?
sorry for the late reply , yes thats without the blower taken into account,I didn't see that thread Andy, sorry
120hp without the turbo: is that with 3psi from the blower ? Asuming wastegate was wide open at that point, thats a bit confusing because overlap can't be blamed for that.
Did you dial the cams in with a DTI ?
had no dti gauges for the cam timing, used the standard timing marks on the cam cover and zeroed the cam pulleys in on the verniers, they do need dialing properly, and that was on the" to do" listand i just have'nt got round to it, i will be getting hold of a pair of dti gauges and stands suitable for dohc engine for friday with a bit of luck
Those cams should work just fine, they're not too lairy, I was worried you might have put something wild in there!
1.27mm lift @ tdc and even less in the exhaust should not be causing a problem. Bare in mind though, if the timing is a mile out then you might be suffering for that reason.
Did Dave save your torque curve I wonder ? Seeing the shape of it might shed some light on things.
I wouldn't worry about swapping the exhaust cam just yet.
Stick with those cams, check their timing and lift against the data sheet (incase they've sent you something different!) and if it all looks fine then I'd be looking elsewhere for the problem.
what if they are the williams version with the 1.93mm lift atdc and 1.47mm exh lift , will they still be good to go?
by the way thankyou for the imput and help scoff, really appreciate it
Then I'd say that might be bordering on too much overlap for what you're doing, but still it wouldn't explain why you had only 120hp NA.what if they are the williams version with the 1.93mm lift atdc and 1.47mm exh lift , will they still be good to go?
by the way thankyou for the imput and help scoff, really appreciate it
Not sure if you confirmed, but I'm asuming we're not talking about whp ?? 120whp might not be so bad
cant remember, will find out today
as regards to cams i will measure the lift and go from there , thanks for the input again
You've probably already thought of this but, because you've lowered the compression and taken a reading without the blower, could that be the reason for low bhp?
are you sure its not down on power due to oli helping
Oi ya cheeky fecker, at least I've never killed a piston or liner or bothare you sure its not down on power due to oli helping
i'd be shocked if you cracked a liner at 7psi
Lol it has had 35psi through it ya knowi'd be shocked if you cracked a liner at 7psi
now now children, stop spamming my project thread
ps have'nt let olie loose on my engine........ ... yet
tis just banter andy, i cast out and oli bites
oli says u need a spot for FCS
oli says u need a spot for FCS
yes pleasejust dont expect gleaming perfect body work
i'm sure we can let you off this onceyes please
dialled in the cams today
111 inlet /113 exhaust , seems to pull fine at half throttle, and you can feel the turbo pull in at 3000rpm (cams are deffo williams)
they where set at 118 inlet and 115 exhaust, before i altered them
although if full throttle applied it quickly over boosts to 16 psi ,no matter how much i lower the blitz, and play with the gain, and didnt seem to pull any harder or quicker
could it still be down to the cams,cars making boost but not going like it should
static pressure tested boost system ,and holding 10psi with no leaks, any more and the bungs pop off!!
might try the standard exhaust cam tomorrow, and see what it does, ideas anyone
fitted the standard cams in yesterday , and feels sooooo much better than the the uprated cams, pulls well
just out of interest does anybody have spec for lift atdc on the standard inlet/exhaust as the piper cams where 110 and using the timing marks on the cover as a reference showed 130 on the standard cams , looked in the haynes with no joy
Hate to say I told ya so but ...........
Hey Andy how's the beast running? Good I hope
well the wait is over, had it mapped again today , made 275whp and 240 ftlb@21 psi making boost from 2000rpm and all way 7000rpm, more in the pot but i will leave it there for the moment and hopefully enjoy it for a while before the gearbox blows upHey Andy how's the beast running? Good I hope
supercharger making 10 psi turbo making 9/10 psi
gearbox is long ratio, and 1,2 gear is slowish but once into third it just goes and goes
will be picking up jack04 123's 15 split rims next sat so this may also help ,bottom end and give me a bit more space in the arches
all good ,and with a bit of luck will see you all at national day or ppc ,feel free to say hello, open to any suggestions
if i get chance will post up the rr printout
thats good going there, what was the guesstimate on fly hp? so whats next, more boost?
enjoy if first, break it later
yes more boost, cams , possible 2.0 crank /spacer plate /strongerbox
impressive, still amazed at the sheer attention to detail thats gone into it
only 16.4 lb/ft to go and you've caught up my little 1.4 8v too
Read post again Mark, there wheel figures where as your were flywheel figures oh and Andy is running a lot less boost than youimpressive, still amazed at the sheer attention to detail thats gone into it
only 16.4 lb/ft to go and you've caught up my little 1.4 8v too
Oh and his doesn't crack a liner cus the water injection has run out
Cast
Nibble nibble.
0h f**k it .........................................nom nom nom nom nom nom nom.
Burp
I like it mate, good power from 2-7k if you get a chance to put any videos up that'll be sweet, gutted i aint gonna get a chance to see this at ndwell the wait is over, had it mapped again today , made 275whp and 240 ftlb@21 psi making boost from 2000rpm and all way 7000rpm, more in the pot but i will leave it there for the moment and hopefully enjoy it for a while before the gearbox blows up
supercharger making 10 psi turbo making 9/10 psi
gearbox is long ratio, and 1,2 gear is slowish but once into third it just goes and goes
will be picking up jack04 123's 15 split rims next sat so this may also help ,bottom end and give me a bit more space in the arches
all good ,and with a bit of luck will see you all at national day or ppc ,feel free to say hello, open to any suggestions
if i get chance will post up the rr printout
And on the 7th day ?
Funny enough i searched for this thread earlier and just came to post on it lol
Has anything happened to this?
oh yes (churchill voice)
since the oil pump shaft breakage and bent valves (all 16)
been busy putting the engine back together, turbo charged only now, as i needed a clutched supercharger, and bypass valves, and space was becoming a problem. working on it was a nightmare(pipework everywhere). so turbo only now, had it running for a little while and it was good.but on the rollers didnt like the charge temps @21 psi/70c degrees,that and the throttle response at low rpm was shocking with the clio 16v throttle body, so ive fitted a bigger pwr barrel and a bigger single plate throttle body.made 296.8 bhp/288ftlb before (with cracked spark plugs,which i didnt know at the time and normal unleaded/70 degree inlet temps, so this time round should be a little better, if it doesnt....... well then its fourth time luck or is it fifth, lost count
getting the inlet temps down is the main goal
and run it on super unleaded this time
Nice one Andy - when you in @ Emerald?oh yes (churchill voice)
since the oil pump shaft breakage and bent valves (all 16)
been busy putting the engine back together, turbo charged only now, as i needed a clutched supercharger, and bypass valves, and space was becoming a problem. working on it was a nightmare(pipework everywhere). so turbo only now, had it running for a little while and it was good.but on the rollers didnt like the charge temps @21 psi/70c degrees
getting the inlet temps down is the main goal
and run it on super unleaded this time
with a bit of luck and a a nice chat with johno, a week friday
So sorry to hear the engine fialed mate
Hey Andy, how goes the build? Did you manage to make it to emerald?
Just read a mates copy of PPC and noticed next issues front cover car
Yeah I hope all is well..Hey Andy, how goes the build? Did you manage to make it to emerald?
Just read a mates copy of PPC and noticed next issues front cover car
the cars getting there... slowly
cannot get it in for this friday, booked up
also the bodykit is starting to move/crack
nevermind, will put them down to speed /stress cracks
oil temps where still an issue when it was last on the rollers, and have been thinking about fitting a laminova from mocal (plumbed into the engine coolant feed ) as the alloy side/wing ducts dont seem to be making that much of a difference to the temps,sitting around the120 degree markagain if anyone has any experiences with this product ,please tell
also a bit concerned about the drive shafts breaking (aswell as gearbox), after reading a recent thread by turbo ted i think, did not look good
Andy (c7borg) have you heard or spoke to fishhead, about your old beast!
would be nice to know whats happening wirth it
Hi Andy
I ran somethign like 180lb springs on the front and nearly 0deg camber. I had something like 300lb on the rear, which was too soft really but I didn't mind it so much. My gut says those 320lb will be too stiff for the front. Maybe returning to 200lb and keeping the stiffer rears might be the way to go.
Camber and toe-in was a tricky one. I used to hate the feeling of bump steer and I found that a little toe-in on the rear help remove that and actually it felt quite stable in all conditions. Parrallel was not a good feeling ! I forget what I tracked the front up at, I don't remember it ever making much difference.
None of that was ever that scientific for me, I just adjusted things until it felt right
ive got a set of 250lb springs in the shed , might try them onHi Andy
I ran somethign like 180lb springs on the front and nearly 0deg camber. I had something like 300lb on the rear, which was too soft really but I didn't mind it so much. My gut says those 320lb will be too stiff for the front. Maybe returning to 200lb and keeping the stiffer rears might be the way to go.
Camber and toe-in was a tricky one. I used to hate the feeling of bump steer and I found that a little toe-in on the rear help remove that and actually it felt quite stable in all conditions. Parrallel was not a good feeling ! I forget what I tracked the front up at, I don't remember it ever making much difference.
None of that was ever that scientific for me, I just adjusted things until it felt right
did you run any camber on the back wheels scoff,
cheers for the input
The last time I spoke with Tony (fishead) was the end of June and he hadn't got round to doing anything with it as yet, I think he has been busy with other things this year.. although it'll be strange when I see it on the road especially if I've bought another R5.
As for the suspension, I would probably echo Chris's thoughts although my old 5 was a little lighter without the turbo & supercharger so my rates were a little softer. From memory I think I was running 275 at the rear and 180's at the front. What shocks are you using I assume they're adjustable, are they turned right up (hard)? As for camber I always ran 0deg on the front as I had plenty of turn in and about 1.5deg on the rear. The toe was slightly in for stability and was never measured, I used a straight piece of metal and made sure when placed across the face of the wheel it touched the same bit of bodykit or was x amount of mm from the bodykit each side if that makes sense. I don't think it will do any harm going too hard if you have comfy seats
I did read a good way of checking if your car is working well in cornering and that is to find an open space of tarmac and chaulk a circle with a 50m radius (use a piece of string) then time yourself around the circle then make an adjustment and time again if you make quite radical changes you should see which way you need to go with your adjustments then start to fine tune. Make sure the person doing the timing is standing far enough back or in your car
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