Good work Harri.
Good work Harri.
It's getting there Harri. Looking forward to getting some power figures and a hint at the potential.
yeah me too. I've had some bad luck witth this one, first breaking gearbox with the first intake manifold and now the turbo. I suppose next I have to rebuild the bottom end again.
I started to install new turbo unit today. While trying to sort out the oil feed pipe I noticed that I don't have any oneway valve in the oil feed. The original system has one. I'm guessing that missing this might have shortened my last turbos life.
Im not sure about that Harri, as quite a few people like me run without them and have no issues.Originally Posted by Harri
Here's some updates, she is almost ready to run again. I just need to finish the new oil return and for that I'm waiting one bent hose.
New turbo unit is installed now. I installed inline filter there along with new, hopefully better, oil return line.
I decided to add idle control valve to my manifold to ease cold starts and general adjustment. The valve is from a zetec ford engine. You can also see the manifold is anodized now and looks a bit different.
I also finally machined new plug to cover the distributor and give some more space for water hoses.
Lovin your work Harri.
I can can see several different brands on parts attached to the plenum, I take it the Ford item is some kind of idle control valve? The Audi part is a FPR? and the injectors are Bosch Red Tops from a SAAB 9000 Turbo?
I've also got a question about the pipe that connects before and after the throttle body. What is it's purpose?
Woz
All three guesses right, my Renault is partly made in Germany, USA and SwedenLovin your work Harri.
I can can see several different brands on parts attached to the plenum, I take it the Ford item is some kind of idle control valve? The Audi part is a FPR? and the injectors are Bosch Red Tops from a SAAB 9000 Turbo?
I've also got a question about the pipe that connects before and after the throttle body. What is it's purpose?
Woz
Injectors were recommended by Scoff, rest are just parts which I came by when I tried to source something suitable. If I had to choose again, I wouldn't use the Audi FPR, rather something which can be connected with merely hoses and doesn't require base which needs to be welded. For example one in the Opel C20NE engines would be easier.
Also my fuel pump & filter is from Escort if I remember correctly. So there's some more Ford aswell.
The by-pass pipe to plenum is for the idle valve.
How's it all going Harri? Any updates?
Everything is good and actually there are plenty of updates. These days I just haven't had time to do updates, but heres some
For the engine side I've purchased a Zeitronix E85 kit and my plan is to make two set of maps one for normal gasoline and one for 85% ethanol. With the kit I'm hoping to correct both fuel and ignition and hopefully I'm able to convert the C1J to a flexfuel vehicle. One restriction will be my 360cc injectors so at the beginning Im going to drop the boost a bit to see if the injectros will be big enough. At the moment I'm thinking that I should have the car on dyno in June.
For the body side I've spent last 6 months mostly making molds (and actually first finished parts aswell). I currently have molds made out of front bumper, right front fender, front grill, both skirts, rear upper light trims and rear boot panel. The rear under light trims are already done as well as the hood which I did a year ago. The molds are made with polyester gelcoat and epoxy/woven glass laminate then vacuum bagged with minimal vacuum pressure (like 2psi). This will ensure better quality molds. Here are some pictures of the molds, I'll add pictures from the under light trims trimmed and installed soon. The actual parts are mady with uv-protected epoxy/3k twill carbon and depending on part there may be some glass between carbon layers just to cut down costs. These are vacuum bagged in about 8psi. I'm using 200g/m2 carbon and 300g/m3 glass so the weight difference is not much.
I'm also doing preparations for second front fender, rear bumper and rear arch panels at the moment. I should have molds made from them in couple of months. Then finally I will do the doors maybe next winter.
Since Renault uses really cheap and crappy plastic in all the trims, most of the parts suffer damage when releasing the mold. Luckily I have some 5 campus parts to use while making the carbon part.
As you can see in the picture with skirts, everything doesn't always work as it should work. In case of surface damage with the mold I have to either add some more gelcoat, sand and polish the damaged area, paint the whole mold or make a new one.
Here is also one picture from my clio which has now new color. It has been delaying the 5 project. On the rightyou can see from which car the color is from.
Here's three pictures from my never ending project.
First one is showing one under light trim ready and fitted. Nice 70% weight saving. I can now order one more bigmac at macdonalds and still have the same performance while driving my R5.
Second one shows upper light trim molds polished and ready for laminating. I will laminate them propably some time next week.
Third one is front grill mold which was made from original gtt phase 2 grill after cutting and adding lots of filler to it. This should be also ready soon, just few more spots in the gelcoat.
Time for small update. I laminated upper light trim yesterday. It has 2 layers of carbon and one glass between. The glass is there for cutting some of the costs. the weight difference between glass and carbon is 100g/m2 with the same thickness. Hopefully I have time to do the second trim before going to dyno with the car next week.
I'm starting to think that the 5 will look quite pervert after I get everything done. I'm also hoping to go under 700kg with rollcage.
Here's pictures from the second upper light trim which I laminated today. On first picture there's sheets of carbon fiber, glass and vacuum bagging cloths ready. On second picture the part is in vacuum bag curing.
I also got the engine running again today. It has been 6 months since it ran last time. It started on first try, naturally.
I got the ethanol sensor working as well. It seems that the 98E5 which I had in my fuel tank has only 3 percent ethanol. I'll still have to connect the sensor to adaptronic before going to dyno.
I had the car on dyno yesterday. this time I decided to go with really small boost, the car had only 0.6 bar of boost. this was due to the major problems I had last autumn and I want to make sure that everything works before going back to 1.3-1.4 bar again.
I managed to map the car up to 6000rpm and then decided to measure the power output. results are really promising, the car gave 136bhp with only 0.6 bar of boost. i will upload power chart later after doing the second part today. i should have no problems achieving the 200bhp target I have. maybe I can even squeeze a bit more
As I told before, my plan was to convert the car to run as flexifuel so ethanol percentage can vary between 0 to 85. today Im going to map the car with 85 percent ethanol and after that I can build convergence values for both fuel and ignition. Im guessing that I should see only minor improvements in power with the small amount of boost Im using now. the bigger improvements should come after increasing boost since when running on ethanol it should be quite difficult to get the engine to knock.
Here's powerchart from yesterday with petrol and from today with E85 mixed with petrol to 33% ethanol. This was due having too much petrol in fuel tank. Everything worked well but with so low boost the engine didn't knock with petrol and there was no ignition advance gain to be had. Petrol I'm using had 98 octane rating and I calculated that my mix had about 100 octane rating.
I added 9% fuel trim to compencate the ethanol but still the engine didn't have as much torque as yesterday which is something I have to investigate.
the car was on scale as well. Corner weights are FL 241kg, FR 276.5kg, RL141.5, RR 123.5 making it total 782.5kg with half tank of fuel. It's a bit more than I had calculated so I will just have to continue my laminating project to save some weight.
Excellent torque on petrol at only 0.6 bar
Thanks, the car also felt quite different when I drove it on road today compared to my first efi manifold and T25.Excellent torque on petrol at only 0.6 bar
Nice work Harri. I've been thinking of using E85 on my EFI conversion but have been a bit worried about the corrosive nature it may have on certain fuel system components. Have you had any problems with this?
I'm hoping that the EFI will make the car far more drivable more than making massive power.
I have some experience with E85 but this was the first time with my R5. I have some connections to the biggest oil refinery in Finland and had a discussion earlier about using ethanol blends in a car which wasn't originally designed for that. I'm also using E10 fuel in my wifes 97 Clio RN which is not officially approved by renault.
For the R5; my fuel lines, rail and intake manifold are made keeping the ethanol in mind and they should be quite safe. Generally you should avoid natural rubbers and pure aluminum. Also you should use only petrol from time to time to "lubricate" fuel system components, ethanol leaves everything too dry.
I'm a bit worried about long term behavior of the fuel tank. I actually thought about welding one from proper aluminum but haven't done that yet. I think I'm just going to check condition of every component related to fueling next winter.
More progress on the bodywork side; both upper light trims and front grill are done but all of them are still untrimmed. I'll add some black mesh to the grill and it should look quite good after that. The picture is quite poor actually, it doesn't show the surface properly.
I would actually prefer having the OE look with carbon but the grill shapes were just too difficult to be made by handlaminating&vacuumbagging. That's why I decided to go with the open mouth look. I have modified front and rear bumpers a bit for the same reasons.
I laminated tailgate lower panel/trim yesterday, but it's still in vacuum bag.
Rear upper trims fitted, they look quite good. I cut attachments from original trims and bodned them to the carbon fiber ones. New trims weight 200g/part less than original ones. Tailgate trim needs a bit more work with the lock before it's ready but it fits already quite nicely. The problem is actually with the RM glass fiber tailgate which is bit too thick. This causes problems with the lock.
I also laminated RH front wing but it's not fitted yet.
More brilliant work! If you can get a good finish and fit on the front wings it's an amazing modification!
"New trims weight 200g/part less than original ones."
Andy Cooke take note about how to take weight out of an R5
Nice work Harri
200 grams is a fair amount for a small item that's already pretty light as standard.
I hope you're making a note of all the before after weights so we can see what the total weight saving is?
I know that the hardest part of making carbon pieces is making the moulds. Are your moulds re-useable?
Yes and no, they are made with high quality epoxy resin and woven glass fiber which gives accurate, flexible and durable molds in principal but they have two problems which limit the re-use; I'm making complex forms from one piece molds which means I need to use quite lot of force to release the part from mold. This means that the gelcoat surface of the mold might suffer damage and carbon fiber part may need to be repolished after releasing. This equals to a lot more labor for me but cuts down the mold material costs. Also, the gelcoat I'm using is a bit old and it tends to suffer small damages here and there when I have released the mold from original part. This is something which I will replace with better one soon.
Okay, I finally tried the front wing to see how well it fits, It still doesn't have upper fixings but it already fits better than the original one. In picture the gap between wing and hood is actually much smaller after doing the upper fittings. What I also really like is the extra space the gtt-arch extension, which is now part of the wing, gives to the wheels. I will post second picture after getting fittings for this wing and front grill complete.
One problem I noticed is that I might need to add some stiffeners to my hood after all. I just don't want to increase the 2kg weight of the hood
I noticed that this wing mold didn't actually suffer any damage during front wing laminating and decided that I could do a set of one-off gelcoat-glass fiber wings for sale after getting the second wing mold and my own part done first. If you're interested, pm me.
Small update; the front grill now has new mesh and all the fixings, it looks quite nice. I also have some new gelcoat which should hopefully solve the issues I have had with my molds. I'll make molds out of gtt rear arch extensions soon and then I'll know.
okay, here's some weight updates:
new front grill with mesh and all the fittings 265g
new tailgate panel with lock and fittings 471g. Old one was 761g with lock.
Does anyone have oe front grill they could put on the scale? I modified mine to make the carbon fiber "open mouth" one and don't have any idea how much oe grill weights. I'm guessing it weights something like double compared to mine.
Nice work as always Harri.
Have you got any pictures of the tailgate?
no new pictures about the rear end yet, but tailgate panel I'm talking about is the panel which has lock, badges and register number lights just to make myself clear. My actual tailgate is glass fiber one bouth from Reichhard Motorsport.Nice work as always Harri.
Have you got any pictures of the tailgate?
Here's picture of the fixings in the back of the panel. One of them had poor adhesion and I needed to fix that, I'll take another picture when everything is installed again.
btw Finally someone comments, I was already thinking about stopping to write this thread since there hasn't been really almost any conversation lately.
I laminated one arch extension mold yesterday, this time I used new gelcoat with the finest woven glass fiber fabric available just to make sure that everything goes perfectly this time. Today I released the mold from original part and it seems that all the problems I had before were gelcoat related since this mold was perfect
Here's pictures from arch extension before mold making, gelcoat surface, vacuum bag and actual mold released from the part.
I just need to trim the edges of the mold and then I can laminate the actual part.
thats looking badical...
Here's the rear end with new tailgate panel installed. It's still missing carbon gtt rear bumper and arch extensions but I'm working with those and I should have all the molds done soon. Also, every carbon part will be coated with PU-clear coating, this will give them better UV protection and also the surface reflection will be totally uniform. Now due to some polishing I've done to fix some small defects the reflection varies a bit by part.
I find myself already thinking that I should do carbon tailgate as well to be able to leave it unpainted.
Harri, you have got to carbon fibre the tailgate aswell. Loving the project, loving the fact you have done all of it yourself from building and desigining the EFI and then doing the light body panels. Totally fantastic keep up the good work and keep the picutres flowing
Thanks, I will keep updating as long as this thread has some readers and conversation.
super looks amazing! keep up the good work!
Hi Harri!!
Sorry you've not had a very good response to your posts, it's nothing personal mate, don't worry! I didn't see any of your thread until todaybut i'm glad I did!!
You're doing a smashing job mate! Keep up the good work!!
I'm really impressed with the Carbon Panels you're making!! Is the plan to leave the bare carbon or are you looking to paint it all??
Steve
Nice to get new readers here.
I'm going to leave those parts unpainted, just add some clear coating. Otherwise using carbon rather than good glass fiber would not make much sense. The weight difference between woven, not chopped strand, mats is not nearly as bad as people usually think. That's why I actually have some glass fiber between carbon layers on the parts I have made. This saves a lot.
However, this is only true with non-structural parts where carbon fibers outstanding mech. Properties aren't really needed.
this is an absolute fantastic project in fact its my favorite on here atm keep up with it fella
thanks, I hope that this will carry on living with your expectations
I've been quite satisfied with the R5 as a project car, It's not too complicated body- or enginewise which makes modifying everything quite easy. Orinally I paid 300€ for the r5 prima shell and 0€ for the gtt from which I took the c1j engine. However, since then I've spent quite fortune on rebuilding everything.
btw, my vacuum pump for vacuum bagging, which is the only special tool you need in the beginning, cost only $60, so starting laminating project isn't that expensive.
If someone can scale them, I would like to know also how much front and rear bumpers weight since I already modified mine with lots and lots of filler.
I love this project, some brilliant new things that I don't think anyone has ever done to a GTT before, please keep updating it.
You'll have to tie the car down when it's parked so the wind doesn't blow it away
Phase 2 Front grill (unpainted) is 520 grams, badge is another 50. Bumper is too heavy for my kitchen scales
i think your too modest there mate, you seem to make things looks easythanks, I hope that this will carry on living with your expectations
I've been quite satisfied with the R5 as a project car, It's not too complicated body- or enginewise which makes modifying everything quite easy. Orinally I paid 300€ for the r5 prima shell and 0€ for the gtt from which I took the c1j engine. However, since then I've spent quite fortune on rebuilding everything.
btw, my vacuum pump for vacuum bagging, which is the only special tool you need in the beginning, cost only $60, so starting laminating project isn't that expensive.
would you be interested in making panels etc for fellow rtoc members?
Last edited by BluntyR5GTT; 18-08-2011 at 15:06.
Ph2 front bumper (unpainted) is 7.8kgs not inc bumpstrips 400grms or fogs ? or plate ? or any other fixings. Sorry don't have a spare rear bumper.
thanks for the info. I'll have to scale the mold which I already have to get an estimate what's the actual part going to be
Yes I could, but at the moment only with woven glass fiber and gelcoat. I still have too much issues mainly related to my working premises and some tools I have which can alter the surface quality of the carbon fiber part. Since the carbon cloth costs quite lot Im not willing to take the risk of making b-grade carbon parts.i think your too modest there mate, you seem to make things looks easy
would you be interested in making panels etc for fellow rtoc members?
edited: this means that I could make parts which are still lighter than OE ones, they don't have any rust issues being composite, but they would need to be painted having easily sandable gelcoat surface on them.
Last edited by Harri; 19-08-2011 at 07:53.
I had quite good evening today; I finally have rear bumper and second front arch ready for mold making. I had to modify the bumper quite lot to make mold making possible but actually the result is not that bad, I would still prefer the OE look though.
There's also picture where I bonded the rear emblems to aluminum plates. Everyone should guess what happens next.
Also I have soon fixed gelcoat damages with those three molds which were made with the old and cheap (free) polyester gelcoat I had.
Thanks! So my grill weights only 265/570 = 46% of the original weight.Phase 2 Front grill (unpainted) is 520 grams, badge is another 50. Bumper is too heavy for my kitchen scales
I actually have this problem with my hood, last summer I had to do some urgent maintenance in Helsinki centrum during rush hour and the wind constantly tried to blow away my hood. It took some minor marks because of that. Luckily it doesn't have clear coat yet.I love this project, some brilliant new things that I don't think anyone has ever done to a GTT before, please keep updating it.
You'll have to tie the car down when it's parked so the wind doesn't blow it away
my front bumper mold was 3,6 kg. I think I can squeeze the actual bumper down to 2,5kg if I'm lucky. This would include all the fittings and mesh but not the reg plate.
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