Right - got out for a few hard miles with Ol' Fluffy last night - went like a dream, didn't miss a beat and I'm pretty confident I've seen the last of the silly gremlins I've been experiencing. Just needs a bit of a clean up, pack up and away we go. Can't wait for tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for your suggestions - collectively - we got it sorted.
Decided to look further into possible problems, most noteably my overly tappetty C1J. So tonight I started stripping her down and here's what I've found.
There is a bit of damage to 1 or 2 followers, number 6 being the worst......
As shown there. I've no idea why it would do this but a few have. Also the tappets at that end are showing a bit of ........
Again, not too sure why this has happened but it has. Not the best picture, sorry.
It will be interesting to have a look at the cam and see what shape that is. I'll be doing this in the evenings and try to keep up with the posts.
Engine will be out soon so that I can fit my new flywheel and clutch, just need to have the flywheel assembly balanced before it goes in.
Whilst she's all apart, I'll be fitting the new tubular manifold, helix 6 paddle and 172 flywheel to re-locate the pickup for the EFI and get rid of the trigger wheel..
Take off the .........
And fit the ....
And tonight we'll finish like......
Andy looks great pal. How much did you give for that manifold and where from if you don't mind me asking??
Is it Glenn's old one?
No it's not Glenns old one, a chap called Markey B sold it to me, can't remember how much now as it was a while ago and I bought it with some other bits. Wasn't much though, he never charges member a lot for stuff.Originally Posted by GT Josh
Ah ok bud looks great
That cam follower is proper mashed lol.
Maybe the tappy(large gap) has caused the follower rocker damage crashing into each other?
Not too sure tbh - never seen this b4, I'll have to replace the damaged followers and possibly replace the rocker shaft assembly, go from there. I'll gap as per book @ 20/25 in/exh. Got Oli (aka Ipswich) on the hunt for some spare followers. I'm going to remove a valve also as it looks like my valve spring seats don't look as though they have been relieved, I'll be getting that done if not.
What do you mean releaved? Give the spring more clearance?
Exactly that.
The damage could well be just old followers.. Most cam peeps suggest new followers with a new cam.. Looks more like incorrect tappet adjustment to me.
Unfortunately your cam is going to be fooked.
andy, i'm pretty sure i've got spare followers and a rocker assembly if you get stuck... dont forget i'm the 'king of det' so like to keep some spares in stock
I think you might well be right on all counts Dave - I hope my cam is fooked so it forces me to get a decent one instead of the worlds ****est 285 (re-profiled @ 129deg FFS) I bought new followers when I installed the cam many moons ago and followed the installation including the 20 min 200rpm run in. I did run for many years with the wrong gapping in the tappets due to a set of incorrectly marked up feeler guages if you can believe that.
I'm gonna stick in a few new followers and see how we get on.
Thanks for that det king - I have Oli coming over on Monday with some followers, I have a spare rocker assy' I'll have a look and see if it's in good nick or not.andy, i'm pretty sure i've got spare followers and a rocker assembly if you get stuck... dont forget i'm the 'king of det' so like to keep some spares in stock
Feeling the lurve.
If Oli takes your crank and intercooler, will that make it any easier getting it back to you?
new cam and followers ,and possibly new pushrods
ouch!!!! thats going to be expensive
The woes of pushing these engines. Just as I reached the 200bhp mark it broke
probably not as much as I lost in the casino last night LOLnew cam and followers ,and possibly new pushrods
ouch!!!! thats going to be expensive
Big thanks to Oli popping over last night with the followers, after seeing the damage to my cam and looking about a bit, it looks like simply putting a new cam with old followers is not the way to go. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, but I'm not too sure.
The cam is mullered with a fair amount of missing lobe on the edges of 8, 6 and 4. The middles look ok but there is a shocking amount missing from the edges. I'll post up pictures when I've got the engine out, should be tomorrow all being well.
might be worth pulling the sump of then, and having a look at the big ends, and oil pump also then, giving it the once over so to speak, all that metals gone somewhere
It's getting pulled apart chap.might be worth pulling the sump of then, and having a look at the big ends, and oil pump also then, giving it the once over so to speak, all that metals gone somewhere
Engine out!
Got to say - That's the easiest way to get an engine out.
Tomorrow - Get her on a stand and start investigating this n that.
did it have oil spraying to the rocker cover? ive never looked... does it flow through the rocker shaft? if so are there holes blocked on those particular rockers?
Through the bar - all clear on 1st inspection
Did you lube the cam up properly before fitting? No excessive cranking to start after fitting? My followers have survived a couple of different cams
Yup - it was all done by the book. I really can't think why the damage has occurred apart from a poor re-grind etc. I do have a set of used followers that I could use, but wherever I look it says 'never fit a new cam with old follower' with 1 or 2 odd exceptions.
Really getting on my tits now
See
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3975552&type=3
For pictures
This one's the worst. It's not cracked right through, but you can feel it is a definite crack. I have a full set of low mileage liners I can put in which look in good condition. If I'm putting the existing piston / rings in, do I need to de-glaze?
I can't say if it's cracked from the pics, I'd probably fit a set of new rings for the effort you've gone too it makes sense.
What's the crack with using my existing pistons (with new rings) in the different honned liners? Is this ok?
Can't see it being a prob. It's the rings that fit to the liners, just check the ring gaps ok.
Right - Stripped the head down tonight as getting it checked over the next few weeks, can anyone tell me if these seats look relieved or not??
And
I think they are - the work was done at CTM many moons ago, and you can see a bit of machining at the tops of each seat where the work has been done, doesn't look as though Renault would have done it if you know what I mean.
Anyone?
I'm not so sure, doesn't look like a clean cut into the head more a cast but as you say as it was done many years ago could be aged now.
I suppose the best thing is to find out what the spring top height should be and go from there.
Cheers
OK - bit of an update:-
1. K-Tec state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
2. CatCams state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
3. I've measured a 10mm lift and I still have about 1.5mm - 2mm of free travel left n the spring.
The cam turned up and looks fab, aparently the new CatCams 285 is optimised and now timed in @ 113 deg as per
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellane...t%20Cam285.pdf
Head has gone off for checking as it was weeping a little from the front edge
Crank and flywheel off to be balanced and the main end journals cleaned up.
That's it - 2-3 weeks wait for this, got to say, I've found another great engineer, well respected in the mini 7's and Miglia race scene TMW Engineers if you need HQ stuff.
In the mean time, I'll be fitting my liners after de-glazing.
this is the exact same as the bb285 cam made by catcams 113 degrees i never deglaze just make sure you hold at bout 3k on first start for a few mins
Coolio - The reason I'm deglazing is because I'm putting in new liners and piston rings, it has nothing to do with the cam.
Cam running in should be no less than 2.5K for 20 mins according to Piper, CatCams and Kent.
exactly make sure water is ok before 1st start then hold at 3k for 20 mins and ya good to go boss, we had new everything mate pistons liners and rings use a good coat of wd40 on liners this helps first start to bossCoolio - The reason I'm deglazing is because I'm putting in new liners and piston rings, it has nothing to do with the cam.
Cam running in should be no less than 2.5K for 20 mins according to Piper, CatCams and Kent.
ive never deglazed mate no need
i also remove main ht before 1st start and crank for 30secs make sure oil pressure is ok and oil is circulating
Last edited by R5MJH; 21-10-2012 at 13:40.
New pistons and liners on the way.
Thanks Ross.
Heheeh , just to let you know Andy is only upset as I pointed out the liners he planned on using had a ridge at the top of piston stroke you could climb on, pretty sure Stallone was using one in his new cliffhanger 2 film for the huge suspended drop scene
I never relieved the spring seats when fitting my piper springs, it should be ok
Heheeh , just to let you know Andy is only upset as I pointed out the liners he planned on using had a ridge at the top of piston stroke you could climb on, pretty sure Stallone was using one in his new cliffhanger 2 film for the huge suspended drop scene
Cheers Brigsy - now confirmed, I've been waiting for that.
Looking good mate not long before its all back together
Made a jig up as per young Scotty (cheers fella - just the ticket) heated the whole piston / rod assembly to 220 deg c and pushed the pin out in my vice. Still very tight, but it went ok. I used the same jig to push the new pins onto the rods. Froze the pins over - night and heated rod no 1 to 250 deg c (removing shells 1st) popped it in the jig and pushed it in. I was just doing No 1 for the moment to gauge how much of a pain / how much damage I might do. It took a lot of pressure to push them in, but they went in as I would have imagined if I had not heated them. But it's in there now, full steam ahead now. I'll be checking the cam timing with just piston 1 in the bore to make it easier to be accurate.
I'll take some photo's and do a write up in the technical section for future reference.
Now fluffy really is getting on my tits.
Got all the pistons on their respective rods and started installing them turning the crank over after I tightned the caps up on each one, one at a time. All good until cap no 3, which when tightened binds the crank up. Grrrr I'm thinking bent rod. Anyone had this? I'll be trying a different rod tomorrow and see how I get on with that one.
It never rains.
are you sure it's the right cap for the rod and it's the right way round?
is the piston facing the right way?
if you get the small end of the rod cherry red the pins drop in with no effort at all andy, thats how I've done them in the past. Getting pistons off is the hard bit!
Yup - sure, I was very careful to get this right.
Must say there was still a great deal of effort to get the pins in. I might just try to get the new piston on another rod using that technique and see how I get on sounds a lot less stressful in literal terms!
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