R5 GTT 172 Project

Ok, thought it was about time that I added some information to the project section as to my recent start of a 172 conversion into the my little R5 the only reason for the conversion is I felt I ha got as much out of my C1J as possible and fancied a change so i have gone for a newer bigger engine with the intention to eventually turbo it.

Some pics in here https://www.rtoc.org/files/?path=Technical%20Files/James5%20-%20172%20Conversion/ will add more as i progress. I plan to be up and running fully by January 2009 to attend a www.cliosport.net R&R day @ chobham

Many thanks to Scoff & Ashy for the all advice.

Nice one bud. Im sure this will be cool when its done.

Happy b-day btw :beer:

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Originally Posted by tonesGTT

Nice one bud. Im sure this will be cool when its done.

Happy b-day btw :beer:

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Cheers matey:)

Good luck matey, getting the bits together is the hardest bit. Once thats done it'll be a doddle :) It'll be fecking loud tho if you do go for the sidey!! :eek:

Happy Birthday :agree:

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Good luck matey, getting the bits together is the hardest bit. Once thats done it'll be a doddle :) It'll be fecking loud tho if you do go for the sidey!! :eek:

Happy Birthday :agree:

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Cheers for the Happy Birthday:D

Got all the bits together now it's just a case as you say putting it together got myself a different fuel rail to use today whilst down the scrappie needs a little modifiing but should be good.
Going to see what the 172 lump is like with the powerflow sidey if it is really loud I may change.

Modified Alternator setup

looking good :)

you can use a 16v clio rail too. you'd still need to make brackets.

you not using standard injectors then ? I thought you were using standard managment.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

looking good :)

you can use a 16v clio rail too. you'd still need to make brackets.

you not using standard injectors then ? I thought you were using standard managment.

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Yeah am going to be using the standard rail and injectors when in NA form but just gathering bits for the turbo conversion when I come across them.

iv just sold 4 wossner pistons i bought when i was thinking of doing this , only got 100 quid as well:ashamed:

Cool, I'm interested as I'm doing the same starting in the next couple of weeks :)

All the alternator bracket stuff adds up, can't you just use the R5 GTT alternator and bracketory?
I may have to bite the bullet on the GTX front engine mount GTX front engine mount plate unless I can get lucky at a scrappy

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Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Cool, I'm interested as I'm doing the same starting in the next couple of weeks :)

All the alternator bracket stuff adds up, can't you just use the R5 GTT alternator and bracketory?
I may have to bite the bullet on the GTX front engine mount GTX front engine mount plate unless I can get lucky at a scrappy

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The Alt brackets and mounts have cost a fair few ££'s to be honest I could prob have done some PMT work as you could prob drill out the standard GTT front mount bracket to fit the F4R block.

But with the Alt arms / brackets it will prob be just a case of playing about with what you can get to fit if not you will need to go down the same line as me or the clio 172 cup setup which is similait just different brackets and costs alot more than I paid for the GTX versions.

I wish i could have just gone and bought an alternator bracket for the 225 lump! Took me half a day of grinding and fettling to get something right and lined up to work!!!!

Looking good there bud, nice work

As Scoff pointed out to me when i powder coated my plenum, you need to make sure the contact points on the bottom of the coil pack are clean metal to metal :)

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Originally Posted by Ashy

As Scoff pointed out to me when i powder coated my plenum, you need to make sure the contact points on the bottom of the coil pack are clean metal to metal :)

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:ashamed::cooter: Good point matey

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Thats the nuts james. keep up the good work

Renault Part Numbers Used List - (Will add to the list once I find the rest of the Invoices:cooter:).

77 00 866 483 - £2.09 inc VAT - Cable Throttle body to Inlet Manifold Plenium Gasket,
82 00 268 626 - £37.06 inc VAT Clio 172 Fuel inlet Pipe,
82 00 031 832 - £44.17 inc VAT - Upper Alternator Block Adaptor,
77 00 718 613 - £23.50 inc VAT – Long Zinc Alternator Bracket (Adjustable),
77 03 101 094 - £3.90 inc VAT- Alternator long bolt,
77 03 101 073 - £1.56 inc VAT - Alternator Bolt washer,

Finally managed to sort out the phase 2 plenium with the phase 1 cable throttle body with some drill and tap work and fits perfect now, just got to get the engine in the car now:D

good to hear james keep up the good work:)

What's the sticking out corroded thing on the front of the engine? do you need it?

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1227871749

fuel rail guard, and no you dont need it really, ment to protect the plastic rail on a front impact in the clio

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1227871749

How much for the bike???? :cooter:

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Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

fuel rail guard, and no you dont need it really, ment to protect the plastic rail on a front impact in the clio

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excellent:cool:

who jiggered the ECU? Did you get a drawing showing which bits of the loom you needed or could ditch?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

who jiggered the ECU? Did you get a drawing showing which bits of the loom you needed or could ditch?

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Unfortunalty when it comes to the wiring / loom it's going to be a case of me playing with a multimeter and power probe:scared::eek:, wiring I am not to bad at all I need to prob get it running is permanent ecu live, ignition ecu live, cranking signal, fuel pump wire (from relay on 172 phase 1 engine loom) then the rest will just be the gauges,etc...
ECU apparently demobilised by RStuning according to the receipt will find out when I finally try to start the car if it works as I purchased it used.

James, shame your not closer by, I'd be pretty interested in having a nose inside that ECU, making some comparisons with a standard one!

try and document what you do with the loom. You never know, it may be of interest to someone.

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

RTOC rent boys:sad2: So is this what you and fido get up to then:cooter::D

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Originally Posted by Dave..H

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

RTOC rent boys:sad2: So is this what you and fido get up to then:cooter::D

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Come on Dave don't be shy you love it to ;):cooter:

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Originally Posted by Scoff

James, shame your not closer by, I'd be pretty interested in having a nose inside that ECU, making some comparisons with a standard one!

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I will open it up and get some pics uploaded in the next couple of days, I also have a standard phase 2 ECU aswell I will open and get some pics.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

try and document what you do with the loom. You never know, it may be of interest to someone.

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I am one step ahead Andrew and am doing a how to guide as I go along for the N/A conversion and will be noting all of it to help others out as I doubt very much I will be the last person to do this conversion.

And a big thanks to Scoff and Ashy for all the advice and help they have given me.

Nice one james. It's probably not a visible alteration, I'd be interested in knowing what the programmable devices are inside of it. Or, it may be really easy, and it'll be something visible :)

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Originally Posted by Scoff

Nice one james. It's probably not a visible alteration, I'd be interested in knowing what the programmable devices are inside of it. Or, it may be really easy, and it'll be something visible :)

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Well just taken both the ECU cases of to have a look the 1st pic is the Phase 2 ECU and the 2nd is the Phase 1 ECU both look different in layout but I can't see that it looks like they have been touched physically.

james, can you give me the make and part numbers of the ECU's you have ?

I've got a spare phase 1 ECU in the garage if you wanted to have a play?

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Originally Posted by James5

Finally managed to sort out the phase 2 plenium with the phase 1 cable throttle body with some drill and tap work and fites perfect now, just got to get the engine in the car now:D

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This is one of the issues I need to deal with.. I've got the later 172 engine with electric throttle body and need a cable operated one.. so did you use a volvo cable throttle body?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

This is one of the issues I need to deal with.. I've got the later 172 engine with electric throttle body and need a cable operated one.. so did you use a volvo cable throttle body?

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Hi mate I am also using a later engine 2004 plate I ended up using the phase 1 172 cable tb by drilling and tapping the phase 2 plenum. The volvo jobby needs the same modification to the phase 2 plenium but you also need to modify the accelerator cam on the volvo by welding the lower part of the gtt accelerator cable fitment on . Scoff has fitted one if you need advice I am sure he will help

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Originally Posted by Scoff

james, can you give me the make and part numbers of the ECU's you have ?

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Pic 1 is Phase 2

Pic 2 is Phase 1

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Originally Posted by Ashy

I've got a spare phase 1 ECU in the garage if you wanted to have a play?

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ooh maybe ?

james, can you verify there is a 29F200 device on the pcb, it should have 44 pins, probably made by AMD or Fujitsu.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

ooh maybe ?

james, can you verify there is a 29F200 device on the pcb, it should have 44 pins, probably made by AMD or Fujitsu.

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Just checked the phase 1 ECU and yeah AMD is written in it and it has 44 pins it is on the left of the big chip in th center.

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...0&d=1228260969


Same chip on the phase 2 aswell

But this time above the big chip in the centre
https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1228260969

you gonna hack that ECU Scoff? http://bbs.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/norty.gif

thanks james. I could remove the immobiliser from that. that device is a flash/eeprom rom, it contains the immobiliser info.

ashy, if you don't mind me tinkering (and removing the immob) from that ecu then I'd like to have a go :)

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

you gonna hack that ECU Scoff? http://bbs.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/norty.gif

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thats all that the tuners do, plenty of software about to do it, if you know where to look ! the software I have lists that ECU and the pcb pictures it has on file are the same as the ones james took. I haven't got a programmer for that fancy device though, my stuff is a bit old skool now. they're not mega bucks, I'd need to invest in one :)

james, it looks like both ph.1 and ph.2 are both hackable in the same way.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

thats all that the tuners do, plenty of software about to do it, if you know where to look ! the software I have lists that ECU and the pcb pictures it has on file are the same as the ones james took. I haven't got a programmer for that fancy device though, my stuff is a bit old skool now. they're not mega bucks, I'd need to invest in one :)

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good to know.:innocent:

james, just to clarify. is it the ph.1 ECU that has been modified ? I'm reading that the sirius 32N (phase 1) ECU needs the rom editing aswell as an emulator making and installing. is there any sign's of phisical intervention ?

looks like the ph.2 is the easy one.

damn i didnt realise how much was involved in the 172 engine conversion, keep it full up 2date as im watching keen eyed :) best of luck

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Originally Posted by Scoff

james, just to clarify. is it the ph.1 ECU that has been modified ? I'm reading that the sirius 32N (phase 1) ECU needs the rom editing aswell as an emulator making and installing. is there any sign's of phisical intervention ?

looks like the ph.2 is the easy one.

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Yeah apparently the phase 1 ECU has been modified (it bloody should be) but I have got it in front of me apart and I cannot see any physical alterations to it:scratch::scared: Am getting a little concerned now. (Got to get engine in car and see)
The AMD chip number is
AM29F200BB
-70SE
0017FBB
1997 AMD

don't let it worry you james, it probably just means I havn't worked out how they've done it, yet. they have probably come up with a more exotic way of doing it, my way may just be the long way round so to speak.

The only way I am going to find out is when I plug it in to fire her up.:) Keep me posted on what you find out Chris:agree:

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Originally Posted by Scoff

thanks james. I could remove the immobiliser from that. that device is a flash/eeprom rom, it contains the immobiliser info.

ashy, if you don't mind me tinkering (and removing the immob) from that ecu then I'd like to have a go :)

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No probs i'll post it down with this adaptor!

ashy, nice one :)

Did you want the phase 2 1 aswell matey to play with??

ashy, stick that spare coolant sensor you have in too and I'll make you that converter we talked about.

james, that might be handy, I will do some more reading yet though because it's the phase 1 that I'm not sure about. If I get to a stage where I've bought a programmer then I'll give you a shout. :)

Well engine part in just won't mate up with gtt box will try again tomoz as bloody cold.

(Excuse the state of the rocker cover and the fuel rail cover which will not be staying will clean up rocker once I finally get it running).

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Originally Posted by James5

Well engine part in just won't mate up with gtt box will try again tomoz as bloody cold

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you have moved the dowels?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

you have moved the dowels?

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I have removed the rear 1 as the front went on fine will remove the other over the next couple of days and see what happens apart from that it is pretty much in minus the inlet plenium as the bonnet wouldn't close with it on. Need to sort bonnet now:)

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Originally Posted by James5

I have removed the rear 1 as the front went on fine will remove the other over th next couple of days and see what happens apart from that it is pretty much in minus the inler manfold as the bonnet wouldn't close with it on. Need to sort bonnet now:)

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you need to move both dowels, plus they are different to GTT ones, I forget how, but they are.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

you need to move both dowels, plus they are different to GTT ones, I forget how, but they are.

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I think this applies to me last night in the cold putting the engine in:rob:

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Originally Posted by James5

I think this applies to me last night in the cold putting the engine in:rob:

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could have been worse, you could have been where I was; in a pub with an open fire. Actually, scratch that :laugh:

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Its looking good james. cant wate to see it turbo'd:)

Excellent project look forward to seeing it in action.

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Originally Posted by James5

to take the engine out and the gearbox and mate the 2 together out of the engine bay

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Best plan, be easier in the long run!

Can't wait to see this finished, gunna be fantastic, I know Scoff has done it already but his is an out an out drag car where as this will be used on the road, now that will be great

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Originally Posted by Os8472

Can't wait to see this finished, gunna be fantastic, I know Scoff has done it already but his is an out an out drag car where as this will be used on the road, now that will be great

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Cheers matey, Ashys done it before matey and his is used on the road.

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Originally Posted by James5

Cheers matey, Ashys done it before matey and his is used on the road.

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Ah didn't know that, still can't wait to see it up and running and hooning it round mallory at Nat Day next year

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Best plan, be easier in the long run!

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yeah, because the block is so big it's a pig to get it in and out with the gearbox on. I do it all in one too. even then its a bitch to get in without scraping stuff. leave all brackets off, alternator, manifold, rear engine mount, the lot!!

Going to go out now and have another go. It's so cold:( ohwell need it running as it's depressing seeing it sitting their.

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Originally Posted by James5

Going to go out now and have another go. It's so cold:( ohwell need it running as it's depressing seeing it sitting their.

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Yer want to try it with a megane lump!!:D

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Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Yer want to try it with a megane lump!!:D

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I hope you're on a wireless connection from the garage!! chop chop, is it running yet?

Got the bar steward on:) But my engine crane will now not lift the engine high enough to get it back in the car:crap:. Ohwell enough for tonight will sort out crane in a couple of days I am fapping freezing now.

can you not just shorten your sling?

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Originally Posted by Ashy

can you not just shorten your sling?

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I have got the sling so short as it will go but for some reason it will not go as high as it used to when you pump the handle it does nothing it's as though know pressure to force the arm up anymore. Prob need some kind of bleed of lubricate replacement I have found the drain hole just no idea where you fill it up??? Clarke CFC1000 anyone got any idea??

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Originally Posted by James5

I have got the sling so short as it will go but for some reason it will not go as high as it used to when you pump the handle it does nothing it's as though know pressure to force the arm up anymore. Prob need some kind of bleed of lubricate replacement I have found the drain hole just no idea where you fill it up??? Clarke CFC1000 anyone got any idea??

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turn upside down and fill the drain? you'll be low on fluid.

either low on fluid or the ram is knackered m8 had this with my one ended up getting the ram repaired by a local firm

You need to keep the ram vertical and remove the rubber bung. Fill until fluid starts to come out of hole. Replace the bung and with the release valve kept open, pump the ram handle several times. keep pumping and release/close the valve slowly. See if it goes all the way up. When its up force the ram down while opening the release valve. That should bleed and prime the pump.:agree:

Got the fecker in @ last just come in as it is now raining, still got the driveshafts to put back in.

Kind of sorted the engine crane still dogey but managed away around it:)

Could you do me a huge favour and while you have the grill off measure the area infront of the rad as i am looking to put a grill mount in. If not thats fine i was planning on doing it at the weekend anyway! Looking really good by the way!

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Originally Posted by James5

Picture 2 is of a Volvo T5 throttle Body

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I need to change to the cable type throttle bodie, are there other throttle bodies that fit then? I've seem a couple on ebay one for an 850 and one for a v40 will either of these fit/do?

Cheers
Andy

850
http://i17.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/16/43/6b40_1.JPG
and the v40
http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/16/43/6efc_1.JPG

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Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

I need to change to the cable type throttle bodie, are there other throttle bodies that fit then? I've seem a couple on ebay one for an 850 and one for a v40 will either of these fit/do?

Cheers
Andy

850

and the v40

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pm 4 you matey, the volvo TB will need accelerator linkage modifying / welding scoff uses this on his conversion both me and Ashy use the phase 1 172 TB on the phase 2 plenium

What size are valves on the 172 head?

Did you sort out the sprung bolts on the down pipe? I found one of them in my garage the other day, i could post it to you if you need it? I know it can be tricky without the little cups!! I could get you a second one made up aswell if you want a pair? Lettuce know marrow :)

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Did you sort out the sprung bolts on the down pipe? I found one of them in my garage the other day, i could post it to you if you need it? I know it can be tricky without the little cups!! I could get you a second one made up aswell if you want a pair? Lettuce know marrow :)

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I have got some very chunky bolts with some big washers just awaiting for a fellow RTOC member to post me some gtt ex springs as I have misplaced mine:( then all should be good exhaust is on at the mo without the ex springs.

Going to try and start some wiring tomorrow if I get some time

Ill get another cup made and send them down to you, got some old springs somewhere too, i'll see what I can dig out. PM me your address again marrow.

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Ill get another cup made and send them down to you, got some old springs somewhere too, i'll see what I can dig out. PM me your address again marrow.

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:cooter: pm your way matey:guitarhero:

Couple of update pics,

172 rad and fan in place (tight fit) looks like a slim line fan will be on the cards.
Many thanks to Ashy and Scoff for all the advice. Won't be long now as I have started the wiring so she should be started very soon.

Looking good matey, bet you cant wait to get it up and running... i loved mine when it was just NA. Went like stink and you could give it full beans without worrying about it blowing up!! Great on the track.

It is tight that rad, Mat C has one of those to go in with his 225, I bet he'll be interested in those pics!!

looking good james..when are you hoping to turn it over?

I wish I could fit a rad as big as that. its getting there :)

That is a chunky fan and shroud isn't it, the size of the rad doesn't look far off the size of my 19 16v one i have. I needed a slime line fan even with the volvo lump.

Scoff, you might be able to fit one in there if the intercooler was pulled slightly forward, thats one of the reason's why mines mount abit further out from the front panel.

Its looking good mate;)

Good work James. Im loving all these projects on here :) some really good work going on in the club..:agree: keep it up chaps as its good to read....

is that a standard bonnet shut on there now mate?

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Originally Posted by Ashy

Looking good matey, bet you cant wait to get it up and running... i loved mine when it was just NA. Went like stink and you could give it full beans without worrying about it blowing up!! Great on the track.

It is tight that rad, Mat C has one of those to go in with his 225, I bet he'll be interested in those pics!!

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I can't fit mine. Just not enough room. Alternator in the way. It may go in with some thought. Anyway, that rad does not look like a comfortable fit. If its fouling on anything i would make sure its securely fastened down. The plastic side housings on them rads are quite thin.

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Originally Posted by Ashy

is that a standard bonnet shut on there now mate?

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:ashamed:Yeah but no inlet plenium underneath, that is on the drivers seat awaiting arrival of 16v bonnet:D

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Originally Posted by James5

:ashamed:Yeah but no inlet plenium underneath, that is on the drivers seat awaiting arrival of 16v bonnet:D

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Been out and had a look at the bonnet today and to be honest looked at the standard bonnet it catches on 1 side of the inlet plenium with a bit of an angle grind I reckon I could get it to close with the plenium in place but then how much movement will there be from the engine with the standard bonnet angle grinded might be safer to use the 16v bonnet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James5

Been out and had a look at the bonnet today and to be honest looked at the standard bonnet it catches on 1 side of the inlet plenium with a bit of an angle grind I reckon I could get it to close with the plenium in place but then how much movement will there be from the engine with the standard bonnet angle grinded might be safer to use the 16v bonnet

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I was looking at mine today james, I have a solid rear engine mount which sits about 1" lower than the standard mount, it drops the whole plenum by about 0.5". I rekon with a the standard bonnet it would still catch the plenum (just) even with the throttle area machined down (which I guess is the bit you are talking about). with my engine on standard mounts a standard bonnet was a definate no-go. On my new engine mount (different gearbox) I've got it a little lower still, a standard bonnet might go.

point is, if you can be bothered making a new rear engine mount or modifying the black "V" shaped mount that bolts to the gearbox you might get away with it ? :)

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Originally Posted by Scoff

I was looking at mine today james, I have a solid rear engine mount which sits about 1" lower than the standard mount, it drops the whole plenum by about 0.5". I rekon with a the standard bonnet it would still catch the plenum (just) even with the throttle area machined down (which I guess is the bit you are talking about). with my engine on standard mounts a standard bonnet was a definate no-go. On my new engine mount (different gearbox) I've got it a little lower still, a standard bonnet might go.

point is, if you can be bothered making a new rear engine mount or modifying the black "V" shaped mount that bolts to the gearbox you might get away with it ? :)

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Cheers chris can't be arsed with any more work got a 16v bonnet on route cheers nayls
:D

bah, don't be lazy ;) I dropped mine down to try and keep the driveshafts parrallel with the floor, I had them perfectly level with the old gearbox. they sit a bit higher than I'd like now even after dropping the engine a little more. sump is actually lower than the subframe now, I'll have to be carefull on speed humps :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scoff

bah, don't be lazy ;) I dropped mine down to try and keep the driveshafts parrallel with the floor, I had them perfectly level with the old gearbox. they sit a bit higher than I'd like now even after dropping the engine a little more. sump is actually lower than the subframe now, I'll have to be carefull on speed humps :D

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Out of interest what front mounts do you use?

totally standard james, gsf ones.

R5 16v Bonnet now on so enough clearance for inlet plenium

she's finished, ship her :agree:

Some more pics of progress to date some wiring to sort and need another cossie fuel pump:(:mad:

Pic 1 engine where @
Pic 2 Standard cossie pump against a phase 1 GTT pump
Pic 3 Modified T5 fuel rail with cossie injectors

Nearly done mate. Days work by the looks of it.:agree:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by James5

R5 GTX front engine mount £26.00,
R5 GTX front engine mount plate £38.00,

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I was looking for the GTX engine front mount from GSF but can only find one and it says all models was it a Renault only part? any chance of a part number :) and did you say it would be possible to fettle with the GTT mount plate so I could use the exisitng?

cheers
Andy

Car looks well :agree:

Those 16v bonnets are :badone: in the fitting and finish dep't though eh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

I was looking for the GTX engine front mount from GSF but can only find one and it says all models was it a Renault only part? any chance of a part number :) and did you say it would be possible to fettle with the GTT mount plate so I could use the exisitng?

cheers
Andy

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The part was from Renault direct matey or if you have a local scrappy with some volvo F series 1.7 lumps in 440 etc..
7700716912 - Mounting Plate - £19.51 inc VAT

With ref to using the GTT plate not done it myself but you could prob place the engine in the car and place the gtt plate on the mount and drill an extra couple of holes into the plate so you could mount it to the 172 block may need a little more fettling than that. I purchased a new GTX plate from Renault but it was on delay for 2 weeks from france.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trevhib

Car looks well :agree:

Those 16v bonnets are :badone: in the fitting and finish dep't though eh.

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Have to agree do not like the 16v bonnet but it serving a purpose will hopefully look better once sprayed uptungy:)

can you re-drill the GTT mounting, I was doing it so often I made up a drill template for them. from memory one hole lines up. you need to tweek it a bit with a grinder to clear the bottom water pipe.

Prob could have had it running by now but stumped with the wiring and awaiting a brand new 044 fuel pump to turn up I will get their eventually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scoff

can you re-drill the GTT mounting, I was doing it so often I made up a drill template for them. from memory one hole lines up. you need to tweek it a bit with a grinder to clear the bottom water pipe.

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:agree: I did mine but I could only get 2 bolts in it! :disagree:

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Originally Posted by Ashy

:agree: I did mine but I could only get 2 bolts in it! :disagree:

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if I recall mate one of the bolts (left as you look at it ?) wants to sit on the ridge of the pressed plate. I ground the plate flat so the bolt could seat correctly. I get all 3 in like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scoff

if I recall mate one of the bolts (left as you look at it ?) wants to sit on the ridge of the pressed plate. I ground the plate flat so the bolt could seat correctly. I get all 3 in like this.

---

I decided to bite the bullet and order the part... for £20 it'll save me a bit of time :)

He recons the part will be in stock tomorrow.. we'll wait and see..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

I decided to bite the bullet and order the part... for £20 it'll save me a bit of time :)

He recons the part will be in stock tomorrow.. we'll wait and see..

---

Have to agree that is pretty much why I purchased a load of new bits from Renault to save time.

You should get some pics up matey of your progress would be interesting to see how you are coming, are you doing this as a rear conversion or is it under the bonnet?

rear.. it would be too much work to do it normally ..if that makes sense :)

Still not running yet spent 2 hours with the car sorting incomplete bits out got perm live, ignition live, fuel pump is wired up everything seems to have power but I am unable to crank over as yet given up for now as to cold!

you can't get it to crank ? thats the easy bit surely :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

you can't get it to crank ? thats the easy bit surely :)

---

Starters buggered no noise or click going to try another starter I have as a spare that I know works:)

Well it's not the starter it's me being **** with electrics still can't get it to work:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Well it's not the starter it's me being **** with electrics still can't get it to work:(

---

you need the battery bolted to the 13mm nut, a good earth to the block and a live to the spade connector when you want it to crank, thats it!

That's what I am going to do put some more earths on the block over the weekend

To wet to play outside with the car:(
So I have been in the shed and modified the alt bracket so it doesn't catch on the cross member

All left to do know sort engine earths and get some 12mm bore fuel line.

And a quick pic of the engine as she is at the mo

12mm bore line ? christ :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

12mm bore line ? christ :D

---

Yeah the cossie fuel pump has a 12mm inlet bore and an 12mm outlet

just reduce it down, alot of the bigger pumps are like that. 8mm line will be fine.

Keep up the good work james mate. you will get there in the end.:cool:

8 mm copper pipe is cheap , sure its ok to use this, paint it with under seal when done . looks tidy.

Almost there just can't get the bitch to run at the mo :cry:
Starter engages, fuel pump sounding but nothing else is happening! oh well will try some more fettliong in a couple of days.

Going to check for spark if no spark looks like it could be my ECU not demobilised

does the fuel pump prime when you switch the key on ? does it then fire up again the moment you start cranking ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

does the fuel pump prime when you switch the key on ? does it then fire up again the moment you start cranking ?

---

Yes
No

I have the following which from what I thought is enough to get her running constant live, ignition live, fuel pump and starter motor the rest will be just gauges.

I have plenty of earths :D

i believe that if the ecu hasnt been decoded and u arent using the full 172 ignition system with key and everything then it wont work, the immobiliser will kick in. few people i know run this engine in their clios, i'll go investigate:)

yeah, could be the immo like coops is saying but I wonder if it would even let you prime the pump ? I would have guessed that it wouldn't do anything atall if it was an immo issue. maybe not ?

do you have a wiring diagram for it ? If you can post it up A) I'd find it quite helpfull since I don't have one and B) I'll go through it and tell you what I think you need to connect to what then you can compare with what you've done already

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

yeah, could be the immo like coops is saying but I wonder if it would even let you prime the pump ? I would have guessed that it wouldn't do anything atall if it was an immo issue. maybe not ?

do you have a wiring diagram for it ? If you can post it up A) I'd find it quite helpfull since I don't have one and B) I'll go through it and tell you what I think you need to connect to what then you can compare with what you've done already

---

I have thought about the ECU itself but it was supposedly demobilised by RS tuning which I am going to call up and see what they say.

With ref to the wiring the only guide I have got is attached which is an allocationf ECU inouts and outputs most of the work has been done by the use of multimeter, continuity tester.

172 Fuel pump relay -

Red - perm live
Yellow - ign live
white - output to pump
violet - trigger from ecu

According to the cliosport guys it should still crank if the immobiliser is active, just no fuel/spark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

According to the cliosport guys it should still crank if the immobiliser is active, just no fuel/spark.

---

yes but you said it's priming the fuel pump which tells me that atleast some of the ECU is awake.

if there was no immobiliser involved I'd have said look at your crank trigger to make sure it's OK and wired up properly, since if this doesn't work you won't get the pump running while you crank nor will you get a spark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

if there was no immobiliser involved I'd have said look at your crank trigger to make sure it's OK and wired up properly, since if this doesn't work you won't get the pump running while you crank nor will you get a spark.

---

Going to give RStuning a call on monday and see what they say ref the ECU has they demobilised it.:(

Just got some info back on cliosport ref the RS tuning ECU's -

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=390305

Apparently this member has heard of 'issues' with RSTuning decodes. They seem to require an emulator in addition to the decode almost as if the ECU will accept any imobiliser code, but it still needs *a* code, if that makes sense? iirc, both geesus and danlp6 had this issue

Beanie and I used www.ecuclinic.com and it came back plug and play if it's any use to you.

I will speak with rstuning ans see what they say if not going to have to get it decoded properly with the ecuclinic

This is not looking good with the ecu:crap: scoff did you ever get to play with ashys phase 1 ecu if so what was the outcome

Well got some news ref the ECU from the bloke @ RS tuning whom done the work who is also a cliosport member. He confirmed that the ECU I have needs to have an emulator to get it demobilised appartently mine was virginilised:sad2:.

Anyone on here able to demobilise a phase 1 ECU???

does it turn over?

I just get the starter wanting to go and the fuel pump primes that is it.

What do you mean by the starter wanting to go?

Does the engine turn over on the starter?

Starter is turning but no fuel or spark which is apparently what the immobilser does.

I am now consdering going standalone as I will have to do this in the future anyway just funds at the mo are a little low:(

Fancy a nice DTA E38 all mapped up with loom to suit a 172 ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Fancy a nice DTA E38 all mapped up with loom to suit a 172 ;)

---

I might, since there is a hammer with my ecu's name on it currently :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Well got some news ref the ECU from the bloke @ RS tuning whom done the work who is also a cliosport member. He confirmed that the ECU I have needs to have an emulator to get it demobilised appartently mine was virginilised:sad2:.

Anyone on here able to demobilise a phase 1 ECU???

---

That's a bit frustrating mate :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I might, since there is a hammer with my ecu's name on it currently :laugh:

---

There might be an E420b for sale if the 420c is going cheap?:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

That's a bit frustrating mate :(

---

Its a fecking pain in the arse it cost me over £100.00 to get that ECU and now to get it demobilised it's going to cost me over that :(. Should have gone standalone in the 1st place at this rate. Going to stick with the standard ECU for now and get it demobilised and when I go turbo hopefully go adaptronic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Its a fecking pain in the arse it cost me over £100.00 to get that ECU and now to get it demobilised it's going to cost me over that :(. Should have gone standalone in the 1st place at this rate. Going to stick with the standard ECU for now and get it demobilised and when I go turbo hopefully go adaptronic.

---

when you do that I might be interested in your ECU

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

There might be an E420b for sale if the 420c is going cheap?:D

---

it'll have had a hammer through it before I'm finnished with it ;) to be fair, I'm probably just asking a bit too much of it with what I'm trying to do with it and I'd need a top of the range DTA or better before I got anywhere near the features I want. I think I've found a solution to my issue anyway :cool:

Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map

is it running yet then... Chop Chop!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map

---

cripes, that all looks a bit delicate

well done with the conversion mate

seems you have to have a tungy grey r5 to have the conversion lol, 3rd 1 so far, many more to come im sure.

steves will b bak out this year, decided to get it bk up 2gether now so just the final bits to be done so shudnt b long now :yeah:

Had a little play with the R5 today as been out replacing brake pads on the Zafira GSI yet again (The thing seems to bloody eat them).

Anyway had the R5 battery on charge over night as I thought it was flat as I tried to start the car last night and nothing. So have given the battery a good few hours charge and to find out that this has made no difference = conclussion battery is fubbard going to try and jump with some leads later when i can be arsed now.

Only things left to do now is tidy up the wiring and connect up some of the dash gauges and obviously get a new battery.

Thought I would have another crack at the old girl tonight. Got the Zafira with Jump leads connected up and went for a turnover starter sounded but no fuel pump noise this is a little odd as it was at least sounding before I sent the ECU away going to go over my wiring to make sure all is OK:( anyday now she will be running

Blimey mate, is she still not going, you have the patience of a saint, i'd have thrown that ecu across the road, jumped in the Zaf & run it over a few times, then got onto Scoff or someone else about standalone :cooter:

If you need a hand you know where i am matey, i had all this with my old Rover when i stuck her on management, ballache, the map i put into the ex48 in the end only just got me to track n road :wasntme: Not that i'm offering to map anything like, just stand around drinking your tea :cooter:

Really getting tempted to get a sneaky project on the go:devil:

Keep it up matey ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Blimey mate, is she still not going, you have the patience of a saint, i'd have thrown that ecu across the road, jumped in the Zaf & run it over a few times, then got onto Scoff or someone else about standalone :cooter:

If you need a hand you know where i am matey, i had all this with my old Rover when i stuck her on management, ballache, the map i put into the ex48 in the end only just got me to track n road :wasntme: Not that i'm offering to map anything like, just stand around drinking your tea :cooter:

Really getting tempted to get a sneaky project on the go:devil:

Keep it up matey ;)

---

Patience has nothing to do with it nowadays its a lack of interest and when I get some interest I have a play then I loose interest again.

I am seriously considering going standalone but not sure if Lauren will let me spend much more on the R5.

Steve you know you want a project matey go on do it:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Patience has nothing to do with it nowadays its a lack of interest and when I get some interest I have a play then I loose interest again.

I am seriously considering going standalone but not sure if Lauren will let me spend much more on the R5.

Steve you know you want a project matey go on do it:D

---

We'll end up having to rent a place together if i did mate, Lauren will kick you out & Kelly me :laugh:
I still may try though, just not sure which way to go, GTT with a different engine or clio turbo.. or something completely different..
Keep on with it though matey & if you fancy having a go sometime give me a shout, sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help (i hate wiring as well though:sad: )

looks like another nice conversion mate

keep with it defo great conversion to be done, neva had mine n/a as i brought mine with it already turbo charged, drives so smooth tho, mines runnin emerald management and neva had a single prob so mite be a worth while inverstment mate

all the best ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveR5GTT

looks like another nice conversion mate

keep with it defo great conversion to be done, neva had mine n/a as i brought mine with it already turbo charged, drives so smooth tho, mines runnin emerald management and neva had a single prob so mite be a worth while inverstment mate

all the best ;)

---

bout time you gave that car to me....aint it..;)..stevO`..:wasntme:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jesus in the seat of a 5

bout time you gave that car to me....aint it..;)..stevO`..:wasntme:

---

ha ha nice try bud, cudnt sell it in the end, just didnt seem worth while so left it sat in the garage but found the love again so back to pod this year lol

drop me a txt mate ive lost ur number

best not clog up this thread chat on the say hello section just started thread on there bud :)

Definetely...sorry james , hope your gettin on better with the car today buddy...:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Thought I would have another crack at the old girl tonight. Got the Zafira with Jump leads connected up and went for a turnover starter sounded but no fuel pump noise this is a little odd as it was at least sounding before I sent the ECU away going to go over my wiring to make sure all is OK:( anyday now she will be running

---

Chin up mate.. look on the bright side, I haven't even plugged on my sensors yet :)

isn't the fuel pump powered by a 4 pin relay with just a signal wire to the fuel pump relay? and then a live feed from the relay..

have you got a multimeter? I'm probably telling you how to suck eggs but get one of your probes on the signal wire and see if you're getting anything when cranking :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Chin up mate.. look on the bright side, I haven't even plugged on my sensors yet :)

isn't the fuel pump powered by a 4 pin relay with just a signal wire to the fuel pump relay? and then a live feed from the relay..

have you got a multimeter? I'm probably telling you how to suck eggs but get one of your probes on the signal wire and see if you're getting anything when cranking :)

---

I have spent last night going around the car and sorting fuel pump problem turned out that the fuel pump live feed had a split in the circuit a bit of solder and heat shrink stuff and all is good took me long enough though to find where it was, I even took the fuel pump of to test that was ok.

Really need toget another battery as it is really fubbard. I turned the key last night I had fuel to the rail and the starter was sounding (Not enough power to get her to turnover though).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Really need toget another battery as it is really fubbard. I turned the key last night I had fuel to the rail and the starter was sounding (Not enough power to get her to turnover though).

---

Awsome, glad you sorted it.. so is it just a battery between you and getting the car on the road?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Awsome, glad you sorted it.. so is it just a battery between you and getting the car on the road?

---

Looks like the original 172 starter was fubbard (solenoid given up) I took it off and it would not work tried another good condition GTT uprated starter and that worked fine so going to use that. Going to put the working starter on tonight going to try cranking with the exisiting battery if not going to nick the battery out of my Zafira to get it hopefully running.

I hate electrics:scratch: - still got some gauges to wire up once finally running.

Fingers crossed it works if so they may be a video upload tonight (but knowing my luck something else will fail or I have not done correct:cartman:

:mad: Really getting pissed off now.

Fitted the R5 GTT starter to the car tonight and started the car all good fuel pump went starter sounded but it is not turning the fly (You can hear the starter motor spimming) moved the spacer to different places and still no difference even tried without it and it made no difference.
Had a look at it compared to my standard knackered 172 jobby and noticed that it is the same bolt fitment but the starter cog does not stick out as much as the 172 jobby

you sure that the pinion isn't just stuck in, ie it isn't jumping out to meet the flywheel when you crank ? are you able to grab the pinion cog in the starter and pull out outward (it should spring back in when you let go). Or, is it stuck fast ? may just be siezed up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

you sure that the pinion isn't just stuck in, ie it isn't jumping out to meet the flywheel when you crank ? are you able to grab the pinion cog in the starter and pull out outward (it should spring back in when you let go). Or, is it stuck fast ? may just be siezed up.

---

Pinion is definatly jumping out on the GTT starter when cranking and when I test it out of the engine bay aswell you can see it all working, and as you describe you can pull the pinion out by hand and it will spring back.

Out of interest what starter motor's are you other boys using on your 172 lumps??

mines a volvo jobbie... Used to have a 172 one on but it died!

i rebuilt 1 out of two feked units. Seems to be lasting!

hurry up and get it sorted James, you're scaring me about the magnitude of getting this swap running...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map

---

I'm a bit lost, did you get RS Tuner, or ECUclinic to do this? I guess it's the same job for use with a fbw throttle?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

hurry up and get it sorted James, you're scaring me about the magnitude of getting this swap running...

---

LOL it's just me being simple I have bitten the bullet and purchased a brand new 182 starter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm a bit lost, did you get RS Tuner, or ECUclinic to do this? I guess it's the same job for use with a fbw throttle?

---

It was RStuning who did it all in the end nice bloke called Paul cost about £130 just for the demobilisaton and I ran the RStuner unit for the Group N map from a friends RStuner unit

http://www.rstuning.co.uk/

With ref to the fbw ecu (phase 2) it doesn't need an emulator I believe it is all software changes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

It was RStuning who did it all in the end nice bloke called Paul cost about £130 just for the demobilisaton and I ran the RStuner unit for the Group N map from a friends RStuner unit

http://www.rstuning.co.uk/

With ref to the fbw ecu (phase 2) it doesn't need an emulator I believe it is all software changes

---

sweet, once I get the ECU in my hand (hopefully Sunday) I'll be able to give him a shout.

A 2nd hand 172/182 starter motor has turned up today :D which I purchased from the www.cliosport.net site. I tested it on my lunch break with the old jump leads to battery and power probe to solenoid and all seems good it engages and the motor turns, if the Mrs's will alllow me out to play tonight I will fit it and see what happens.

Do you know what size drive belt you used? I need a 835mm belt but can't seem to find one anywhere :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Do you know what size drive belt you used? I need a 835mm belt but can't seem to find one anywhere :(

---

I believe 827

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I believe 827

---

As Andy says I ended up using an 5pk827 belt which I got from Halfords looked like it had been sitting around for a few years as the packaging was knackered. There isn't much play in my belt for manoverouring the alt about so you probably get away with an 830 matey try some local motor factors to see what they can get hold of.
I am led to believe that and Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 t spark and BMW e46 uses a 5pk830 belt? but I can't be 100%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

As Andy says I ended up using an 5pk827 belt which I got from Halfords looked like it had been sitting around for a few years as the packaging was knackered. There isn't much play in my belt for manoverouring the alt about so you probably get away with an 830 matey try some local motor factors to see what they can get hold of.
I am led to believe that and Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 t spark and BMW e46 uses a 5pk830 belt? but I can't be 100%.

---

Does the 5pk relate to the number of teeth on the pulley?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Does the 5pk relate to the number of teeth on the pulley?

---

Its the number of ribs / grooves and the numbers after is the length in mm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leigh

Its the number of ribs / grooves and the numbers after is the length in mm

---

cool thanks

I found a place that sells just about every length .. http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s0p0

wierd though I'm sure I counted six peaks on the belt - but I guess that works out as 5 on the pulley.. eek hope I've ordered the right one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

cool thanks

I found a place that sells just about every length .. http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s0p0

wierd though I'm sure I counted six peaks on the belt - but I guess that works out as 5 on the pulley.. eek hope I've ordered the right one

---

The belt should be a 6pk matey but I have not been able to source a 6pk of the correct size but I will take a look at that link you have got and see if I can get a 6pk version

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

The belt should be a 6pk matey but I have not been able to source a 6pk of the correct size but I will take a look at that link you have got and see if I can get a 6pk version

---

I can find Dayco and Gates do a 6pk825 or Gates do a stretch belt 6pk831 ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leigh

I can find Dayco and Gates do a 6pk825 or Gates do a stretch belt 6pk831 ;)

---

I have already tried an 825 and it is doesn't fit to small

since you're not driving the aircon or the PAS you probably don't need all those grooves.

Well have got the starter motor on and she now fires, but doesn't hold idle see video attached any idea's? She is defo getting fuel to the rail and obviously sparkies are firing aswell.

http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/h...t=MVI_4989.flv

how are you setting the fuel pressure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

how are you setting the fuel pressure?

---

I have got a Bosch 3bar fpr on the fuel rail, or am I not thinking on the correct lines here:rob:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I have got a Bosch 3bar fpr on the fuel rail, or am I not thinking on the correct lines here:rob:

---

possibly... it sounds like a lack of fuel to me, not sure what pressure the 172 should have?? I think it's normally set in the fuel tank, and only a single pipe goes to the engine - correct me if I'm wrong. What have you done with the reference pipe on the regulator - is there one? Do you have any leaks in the plenum?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

possibly... it sounds like a lack of fuel to me, not sure what pressure the 172 should have?? I think it's normally set in the fuel tank, and only a single pipe goes to the engine - correct me if I'm wrong. What have you done with the reference pipe on the regulator - is there one? Do you have any leaks in the plenum?

---

I think the 172 run on 3bar fpr's as you say built into the tank, the reference pipe goes to the inlet plenium (the same way as Scoff & Ashys does). Not sure about plenium leaks all should be good will double check though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I think the 172 run on 3bar fpr's as you say built into the tank, the reference pipe goes to the inlet plenium (the same way as Scoff & Ashys does). Not sure about plenium leaks all should be good will double check though

---

Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.

---

Fuel pump sounds a little dogey removed the fuel line to the rail and nothing looks like I am sending it back as it's new:laugh::crap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Fuel pump sounds a little dogey removed the fuel line to the rail and nothing looks like I am sending it back as it's new:laugh::crap:

---

just stick your GT pump on for a bit, it'll be Ok to get idling

do you have any fuel in the tank?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

do you have any fuel in the tank?

---

GTT pump went ages ago:crap: and i have 1/2 tank of 99ron stuff which i put in last week with 3 big jerry cans:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

GTT pump went ages ago:crap: and i have 1/2 tank of 99ron stuff which i put in last week with 3 big jerry cans:D

---

normally dodgy sounding pumps are sounding dodgy because they are dry. you have the fuel pipes (send/return/breather) hooked up right on the tank ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.

---

and do this, checked the manual and the 172 uses a flat 3 bar reg, connect it like Scoff/Ashy when/if you go standalone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

and do this, checked the manual and the 172 uses a flat 3 bar reg, connect it like Scoff/Ashy when/if you go standalone.

---

To atmosphere it is then my friend:D

Well I have now replaced the fuel pump as the other one was definatly not working properly so I now have a nice flow of fuel to the rail. The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there, the engine is turning on the starter and the car is wanting to run but as soon as you take your hand of the ignition key she dies:confused: It's got to be something electrical.
:scratch::scratch:

Check the TPS mate, have you tried half throttle, part throttle etc?? It sounds like not enough fuel is getting into the cylinders? It could be that the TPS or maybe TDC aint regestering to the ecu?? This is the problem with standard ecu's, you cant see whats going on. I would suggest getting the meter out and checking you have supply to the sensors. Other thoughts ....is the fuel pump running on after the key is released?? You could wire it to a switch to eliminate the possibility of the ecu telling it to shut off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there,
:scratch::scratch:

---

Not smething I would reconmend doing, I did that on a hot day once and sh!t myself when one of them ignited!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Not smething I would reconmend doing, I did that on a hot day once and sh!t myself when one of them ignited!!

---

**** I was trying to elimnate getting fuel, going to have another play later when I can be bothered it's going to be somthing simple I know it. I am going to look at my positive feeds as once you turn the key to start and then let go it dies a must be something to do with my constant feed

or ignition lives - maybe you have the ignition live for the ECU taken from the starter exciter or something wierd like that.

Hmm going to have another play tonight.:)

Been out for the last coupl of hours with my multimeter and wiring guide and still no joy what I have seems to be wired up fine, I even managed to wire up the GTT dash rev counter and oil pressure switch whilst trying to sort this out.

Don't know what to do now am totally clueless:scratch:

Anybody local good with elecs fancy taking a gander to see what they think a 2nd pair of eyes might help:cooter:

So does it fire up then stall?

Have you tried holding the throttle open? Is the pump still running constantly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

So does it fire up then stall?

Have you tried holding the throttle open? Is the pump still running constantly?

---

When you turn the key to start she sounds like she is firing and trying to run but then she stalls / die's


I have tried with the throttle open and tried pumping the accelerator pedal to which makes little if any difference. The pump is still sounding when the key is held to start:scratch: (got to put a switch inline on this to make sure as the exhaust is so loud when trying to crank can't always hear the pump)


Sounds like this
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_MVI_4989.jpg

Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems :cool:

---

I am really trying just got to a part which is now baffling me:(, I think I may wait for you to get yours in and running so you can tell me what i need to do:laugh:

Wire the pump up to a switch then report back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Sounds like this...

---

That sounds sooo close !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MATT C Ringworm Tuning

Wire the pump up to a switch then report back.

---

:agree: Will try that later tonight.

Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated:cooter:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

That sounds sooo close !!

---

It is very close going to run switch to the fuel pump as suggested above.

Hows yours coming on??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

It is very close going to run switch to the fuel pump as suggested above.

Hows yours coming on??

---

Well it's coming on.. I need to be ready for 10 may as I've planned to do a hill climb..

It just needs plumbing up which I plan to do this week and then it's onto the wiring that I'm not looking forward to - I plan to do that next week.. so hopefully I should be turning the key somewhere around the 20th, giving me a couple of weeks to iron out any issues although it's cutting things a little tight especially if I get nowehere with the mapping!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

:agree: Will try that later tonight.

Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated:cooter:

---

Just thinking there aren't any pipes comng out the inlet/throttle bodie that you haven't blocked up.. or one way vlaves you've missed from the brake servo etc..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Just thinking there aren't any pipes comng out the inlet/throttle bodie that you haven't blocked up.. or one way vlaves you've missed from the brake servo etc..

---

Nah got a one way valve in place for servo, Just blocked up the carbon canister pipe as I left it open but made no difference.

I'll try this fuel supply switch 1st then go from there.

Good luck with getting yours running matey

I'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak :confused: :scratch:

I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth :)

Hope you get it sorted soon mate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wayno

I'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak :confused: :scratch:

I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth :)

Hope you get it sorted soon mate.

---

I think that's unlikely to cause that type of problem as the 172 uses a MAP sensor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I think that's unlikely to cause that type of problem as the 172 uses a MAP sensor

---

Well got the fuel pump on a switch and does give constant supply of fuel but still no start I have removed the plenium to note that where the coil pack sits my connections are a little rusty from where the water comes through the 16v vent so have cleaned them up need to get a couple of bolts to fit as 2 of them rusty as anything will play again tomoz

It'll either be a wiring issue or an issue with the ECU itself. I don't know how the 172's immo works usually, but if it's anything like some of the VW ones it might allow the motor to run for a second and then cut-out, so maybe the immo removal didn't take properly ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

It'll either be a wiring issue or an issue with the ECU itself. I don't know how the 172's immo works usually, but if it's anything like some of the VW ones it might allow the motor to run for a second and then cut-out, so maybe the immo removal didn't take properly ?

---

Anyone local got phase 1 172 that I can test my ecu on???

it still sounds like fuel to me, that fuel pressure gauge sounds like a good idea, don't forget that it'll be 3 bar, so you'll need to use something like an oil pressure gauge as a boost gauge won't go high enough.

Did you unplug that pipe?

Have you kept the OBD port? if you can borrow a reader (RSTuner for example) you should be able to see what's going on - maybe you're throwing an error up?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

Have you kept the OBD port? if you can borrow a reader (RSTuner for example) you should be able to see what's going on - maybe you're throwing an error up?

---

Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1

---

try and get the connector and a length of wire , it'll be worth it for times like this.

I almost just ordered an RSTuner for this very reason, then noticed that they're out of stock...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1

---

all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring :laugh:

---

Going to get a fuel pressure Gauge and T piece so I can see what the rail is getting.

I hate wiring:mad: Oh why didn't I go standalone in the 1st place:scratch: (need to save some cash now as I think this would be best in the long run) but if I have fuel problems probably have the same problems

This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me :)

---

My ECU is definatly getting a constant live feed & ignition live feed.

I defo think this is fuel related! I thinkas soon as the injectors open the fuel pressure is dropping hence not running for long.

Also going to double check that I am getting a spark going to make sure all coil contacts are clean, whats the best way to test for spark on these engines?

Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand :wasntme:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand :wasntme:

---

So when do you fancy coming over:laugh:


Don't think I will be holding it in my hand:dearme:

try unplugging the TPS and the MAP sensor and trying it, maybe there is something wrong and they are throwing up errors. My guess is that if you unplug them the ECU will revert to a default setting that might let it run? Worth a shot?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

try unplugging the TPS and the MAP sensor and trying it, maybe there is something wrong and they are throwing up errors. My guess is that if you unplug them the ECU will revert to a default setting that might let it run? Worth a shot?

---

Will give that a try tonight when I get in from work

Update

I am sitting in the r5 on the itouch (using the Internet) I have spark, i have 3.5 bar fuel pressure to the rail, she cranks, I have good battery charge, I have unplugged the tps and map sensor and this has made no difference at all. HELP

try sticking a few more earths onto the engine, use jump leads from the battery, get one onto the plenum... Clutching at straws i know!!

tdc sensor problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

tdc sensor problem?

---

Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

try sticking a few more earths onto the engine, use jump leads from the battery, get one onto the plenum... Clutching at straws i know!!

---

LOL I have already got 4 earth points will try the jump leads

Has the immobiliser definitely being taken off by ecu clinic, as a couple of the guys on cliosport doing the conversion had problems with the ecu not being decoded properly.

Just a thought as you seem to have tried everything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble :)

---

made no difference with the jump leads in place :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaz2405

Has the immobiliser definitely being taken off by ecu clinic, as a couple of the guys on cliosport doing the conversion had problems with the ecu not being decoded properly.

Just a thought as you seem to have tried everything else.

---

My ECU was demobilised with an emulator by RStuning http://www.rstuning.co.uk/ some pics further back in this thread somewhere but i am thinking it is ECU related.

I suppose even if I was to test the ECU on friends phase 1 clio 172 it work make no difference as the phase 1 would have the decoded key and the other unit required to get past the ecu???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adey aka Ewok

tdc sensor problem?

---

Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it :D

---

Not likely since it runs for 1 second, I think ECU too. Try it on someone else's clio james.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Not likely since it runs for 1 second, I think ECU too. Try it on someone else's clio james.

---

Chris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan:cooter:) but even if i test it on the clio will the clio not have the decoded key and transponder thingy or does the ECU carry the same code aswell:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Chris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan:cooter:) but even if i test it on the clio will the clio not have the decoded key and transponder thingy or does the ECU carry the same code aswell:confused:

---

unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiser :cartman:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiser :cartman:

---

I have just pm'd one of the blokes on the www.cliosport.net who has done the conversion into a mark 1 clio and uses a demobilised 172 ECU to see if he would be willing for me to send him my ECU to test it on his car if it works I know the ECU is fine and it's my dogey wiring.

i really wana do this engine swap but after reading this i think ill get an aftermarket ecu to control everything

The guys that did the conversion on cliosport had problems with rstuning with regards to decoding them. I think beaniemoo used ecu clinic might be worth giving them a call.

There's a guy on the coupe-club putting a 172 into a coupe and he's used rstuning to decode his I'll let you know whether his fires up or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaz2405

The guys that did the conversion on cliosport had problems with rstuning with regards to decoding them. I think beaniemoo used ecu clinic might be worth giving them a call.

There's a guy on the coupe-club putting a 172 into a coupe and he's used rstuning to decode his I'll let you know whether his fires up or not.

---

That would be good if you could find out and let me know.

Again many thanks to everyone for all the advice and tips.

It does sound like an ecu problem like its just shutting everything down. As scoff said these are what the vw's do when the codes dont match from key to ecu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gttnutter

It does sound like an ecu problem like its just shutting everything down. As scoff said these are what the vw's do when the codes dont match from key to ecu

---

:cry:

I have pm'd rstuning via cliosport as they are a member but I will give them a call on my lunch break to get there advice's.

Soke to Paul @ RS tuning who advised the following - When i did your ecu i tested it on our PH1 to make sure it's working ok and the car ran fine. Not sure what to suggest really. Maybe try a TDC sensor on there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Don't suppose anyone knows the Renault part number for this with the low cable bit coming out of it as my Diaologys does not show this part?

---

i was on ebay any way james and found this for you mate

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-Clio-1...2em118Q2el1247

hes good for anything you might need for the 172 mate ive used him a few times and he get everything just right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smithsgtt

hes good for anything you might need for the 172 mate ive used him a few times and he get everything just right

---

Cheers for that but that sensor looks different to mine for a start it has the blue connector at the top (mins is black) and what is that cable coming out of the bottom?? Mine doesn't have that either:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Cheers for that but that sensor looks different to mine for a start it has the blue connector at the top (mins is black) and what is that cable coming out of the bottom?? Mine doesn't have that either:confused:

---

i have found out that the black ones are prone to failing and this replaces it if you email hime through ebay he normally answers up to about 10pm mate so hell help you out and tell you whats prob missing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Here's a pic of one of the funnky 172 TDC leads

I defo have to top connection but my TDC sensor does not have the bottom cable / loom coming out of it??

---

that's a sensor and a bit of wire with a connector on it to allow you to splice into your loom, not a sensor with 2 connectors.

the 2 wires from the sensor should run direct to the ECU with no funny business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

that's a sensor and a bit of wire with a connector on it to allow you to splice into your loom, not a sensor with 2 connectors.

the 2 wires from the sensor should run direct to the ECU with no funny business.

---

Doh

On this what would you guys says is my ECU ignition live? (Just want to make sure I am not totally special:laugh:)

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...n/IMG_4694.jpg

29 = ignition live
30 = pre-ignition live. Now, this might be a perminant live or if your diagram is to be taken literally then it may need to be non-powered once the ignition is ON. You could use a relay to do the switching. I suspect it'll be a perminant live though. It's something worth clarifying with the cliosport.net guys maybe :)

Or, you could test the theory by disconnecting no.30 wire the moment the engine fires to see if it continues running. Bit of a long shot I think!

I have the ph2 wiring:

there is a constant live via a 5A fuse to pin 30
the switched live is via a 15A fuse to pin 29, this also goes to the fuel pump relay
there is a constant live via a 30A fuse to the 'ignition locking relay' and the fuel pump relay.

do you have a PH1 loom to go with your PH1 ECU?

Ah, I wonder if his ignition relay isn't remaining powered up after cranking :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Ah, I wonder if his ignition relay isn't remaining powered up after cranking :)

---

correction, it's an 'injection locking relay' - item 238

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...u%20wiring.pdf

be careful though, this is PH2, so all may not be as it seems....
https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...u%20wiring.pdf

I see, the ECU latches it on. Is the fuel pump driven off that too ? Andy, do you have a component key you could upload for that diagram ?

It would be worth watching what that relay does as the motor cuts out. If the relay cuts out immediately before the engine stops then either the power to the relay is vanishing or the ECU is deciding to cut the engine for some reason. If the relay cuts after the engine has died then I expect that is normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I see, the ECU latches it on. Is the fuel pump driven off that too ? Andy, do you have a component key you could upload for that diagram ?

---

I'll repeat, this is PH2, so you may need to adapt for your PH1 (although this list seems to be Renault wide)

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...ngo/REPORG.pdf

I assume you have linked out the wiring that normally goes to "927" inertia / impact switch too ? I don't know if that is part of the engine loom. I know that the phase 1 certainly has that switch and the car will not run if it is open circuit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

do you have a PH1 loom to go with your PH1 ECU?

---

Yes even though I have a phase 2 engine I managed to get hold of a phase 1 loom.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I assume you have linked out the wiring that normally goes to "927" inertia / impact switch too ? I don't know if that is part of the engine loom. I know that the phase 1 certainly has that switch and the car will not run if it is open circuit.

---

It is definatly bridged.

I even picked up a new TDC today from Renault thankful they had one on the shelf LOL I still have the same symptons.

Yet again I am going to go through all my wiring as I want to make sure it is 110% correct going to tidy it up this time as I go along.

this should be a PH1 wiring diagram

https://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%...U%20wiring.pdf

Like I said James it won't be TDC mate since it runs (and sounds OK) for that 1 second or so.

Did you have a listen to what that injector locking relay does ?

Standing in front of the car again checking everything over and I just can't see what the problem is
I have replaced the TDC (brand new from Renault), bridged the inertia switch, got 3 bar fuel pressure to rail, injectors are firing, fuel pump is on a switch and I have checked my wiring which to be honest isn't much required to get it running:scratch:.
Live wires
Battery to starter,
Battery to alternator,
Battery to 172 engine loom,
Ignition barrel to battery,
Ignition lives,
Ignition barrel to 172 engine loom,
Earths,
4 x engine earths,
the usual interior earth points,
As said above the fuel pump is on a switch (Temporary solution for the time being)
??????????http://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley5.gifhttp://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley5.gifhttp://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley5.gifhttp://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley5.gifhttp://www.cliosport.net/forum/image...es/smiley5.gif
Anyone got any more suggestions before I set alight to it all or better still a helpline LOL:scratch::scratch:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Like I said James it won't be TDC mate since it runs (and sounds OK) for that 1 second or so.

Did you have a listen to what that injector locking relay does ?

---

will take a look a relay now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Like I said James it won't be TDC mate since it runs (and sounds OK) for that 1 second or so.

Did you have a listen to what that injector locking relay does ?

---

I can here it clicking if I fiddle with the fuses

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I can here it clicking if I fiddle with the fuses

---

Read what I was saying about what the relay should and shouldn't do :) If the relay cuts immediately before the engine stops then it means the ECU is killing the engine for some reason. What should happen is when the engine stops the relay should un-latch very shortly afterward.

If the ECU is killing the power then you really have to test the ECU on someone elses car to be sure it runs OK still.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I can here it clicking if I fiddle with the fuses

---

check that the wiring to fuse 1 (30A) that supplies that relay is good, check the fuse is home (pop it in and out a couple of times).

interestingly that fuse also protects the fuel pump, I recall you saying that wiring the fuel pump direct improved things, that too would also point to a poor connection somewhere in that area.


btw, you should have 3 bar fuel pressure, not 3.5, maybe your gauge isn't that accurate? anyway, it 's unlikely to prevent you from starting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

29 = ignition live
Or, you could test the theory by disconnecting no.30 wire the moment the engine fires to see if it continues running. Bit of a long shot I think!

---

Have you tried this James?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Have you tried this James?

---

Yeah traced number 30 it is defo a permanent live it is part of the original 172 phase 1 loom that connects to the battery (not even fettled with that wire)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Read what I was saying about what the relay should and shouldn't do :) If the relay cuts immediately before the engine stops then it means the ECU is killing the engine for some reason. What should happen is when the engine stops the relay should un-latch very shortly afterward.

If the ECU is killing the power then you really have to test the ECU on someone elses car to be sure it runs OK still.

---

I have managed to find a bloke on the cliosport.net site whom will try my ECU on his car (its a clio phase 1 with 172 lump so like mine it will require the demobilised ECU to run)

Further update, had a 15 min play tonight to do some quick tests and tidy things up a bit and I found the following-

Fuel pressure to fuel rail 3.0bar,
Sparkies are firing with very good spark,

I then decided to take the fuel rail of tonight to make sure the injectors are firing to find that they were NOT firing this time???


I do defo think it is the injectors that have failed for the following reason the 172 standard Injectors I believe are Pico 250cc min @ 3bar 14.5 ohms (High Impedance). Now because I have used a modified alloy fuel rail from another car (Volvo Turbo) the standard 172 Injectors would not allow the alloy rail to be used (FPR fitment problems) so i had to source some injectors from a different car (Cossie). Cossie yellow spec (standard cossie injectors) Bosch 270cc min @ 3bar I have just found out that they run 3.5 ohms (low impendance).

So I reckon due to them being low impendance I cannot use in them in the high impendance injectors system of the 172 hence them not working properly everytime or if at all.


Anybody got some spare working injectors I could try pref 250cc min @3bar 14.5ohms??

i should have a 182 lump arriving at mine on friday. Im a little way up the road from you in croydon. Your welcome to give them the injectors from this lump a try.

just re-read your post. And im being a div. Can you not refit the standard fuel rail, injectors and fpr?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewis

i should have a 182 lump arriving at mine on friday. Im a little way up the road from you in croydon. Your welcome to give them the injectors from this lump a try.

---

Cheers for the offer matey but in order for me to use the standard 172 / 182 injectors I will require a phase 1 172 fuel rail, fpr setup as the phase 2 setup which you are getting is different.

Let me think how I could possibly modify my setup non renault fuel rail to use the standard injectors as it may be possible if I can relocate the fpr.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lewis

just re-read your post. And im being a div. Can you not refit the standard fuel rail, injectors and fpr?

---

My engine is a phase 2 172 so in order for me to get it to work properly I would need the phase 1 setup, all I have left of my phase 2 setup is the phase 2 rail and 1/2 the fuel feed pipe no injectors.

Well no real progress todate (still not running but then not tried to fire her up yet) thanks to Ashy for the 172 injectors and Brigsy for a brass carb fuel feed which i have drilled and taped into my alloy T5 fuel rail to fit so I have been able to relocate the FPR of the rail all seems good so far. Got a slight prob with the rail in the standard 172 injectors, because the standard injectors are tiny compared to the Bosch type the T5 rail does not allow them to fit perfectly straight in the rail not run any fuel through yet so it may leak will have a play later to see.

Slight update unable to use the volvo alloy rail with the standard injectors due to the standard 172 injectors being tiny compared to the bosch type. I have therefore had to revert back to the phase 2 172 plastic fuel rail and modifiy it so I can use my FPR.

why cant you use the std 172 rail and FPR?

You seem to be over-complicating things??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

why cant you use the std 172 rail and FPR?

You seem to be over-complicating things??

---

because I don't think there is an FPR in the clio rail - the pump does the regulation I think.

there is on the Mk1 172 engine, you're right the later ones don't have a FPR.

Could of leant you the rail too James... Let me know if you need it!

You don't want to be taking the risk with fuel rails and injectors that don't quite fit properly!! Trust me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

because I don't think there is an FPR in the clio rail - the pump does the regulation I think.

---

That is exactly why I will see how my mod goes if it doesn't work properly I will just buy the phase 1 parts from Renault

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

That is exactly why I will see how my mod goes if it doesn't work properly I will just buy the phase 1 parts from Renault

---

Did you see my post, one above your last one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Did you see my post, one above your last one?

---

Nial your 172 rail does this have the fpr on it?

i have one that does and one that doesnt.

I'm thinking that I might need to convert to the PH1 fuel rail/ regulator, it doesn't look like the 172 fuel collector will fit into my tank.

actually, is it possible to modify my rail to use the regulator?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

i have one that does and one that doesnt.

---

Can I try it out please matey :cooter:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

I'm thinking that I might need to convert to the PH1 fuel rail/ regulator, it doesn't look like the 172 fuel collector will fit into my tank.

actually, is it possible to modify my rail to use the regulator?

---

I'm not sure andy, I'll get a few pics of both types and upload them. THe ph2 172 rail has the FPR port and the outlet they are just blanked off! Maybe you could open them up and use then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

I'm not sure andy, I'll get a few pics of both types and upload them. THe ph2 172 rail has the FPR port and the outlet they are just blanked off! Maybe you could open them up and use then?

---

Ashy does your phase 1 rail have the Renault part number on it??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Ashy does your phase 1 rail have the Renault part number on it??

---

it should be 7700107405, and PH2 7700112777

James, I'm going to backtrack on my previous comment about not fitting the FPR ref pipe, it looks like the PH1 uses that pipe as the reg is on the engine, on the PH2 that pipe won't be used as the FPR is in the tank, the map must take each eventuality into account.

She is running at last, traced the wiring on the original 172 loom and I found the earth to the ECU to have a split in the cable sorted it out and she now idles. Only prob now is that the cam, tensioner has come loose:crap:

my modified fuel rail seems to be doing the job ok:coffee:

I will get a vid up but **** she is bloody loud with the powerflow sidey:cooter:

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_MVI_5026.jpg

great, so you don't need this FPR then mate? Saves me stripping it down and posting it off :)

Which injectors did you run it on in the end?

WHen you say cam tensioner what do you mean? The idler pulley? as you dont want the tensioner coming loose!!

woot, now you're full of skills you can run up the motorway and get mine running :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

great, so you don't need this FPR then mate? Saves me stripping it down and posting it off :)

Which injectors did you run it on in the end?

WHen you say cam tensioner what do you mean? The idler pulley? as you dont want the tensioner coming loose!!

---

No won't need the fpr now cheers though ashy I am running the standard 172 injectors

Yeah the adjustable pulley has come loose looks like engine out to sort cam timing need to find my mot tools again :(

engine out ? bet you can jack it up enough with the n/s mount undone so that you can whip the cover off and sort it. glad it's running :)

I would like to thank everyone whom has given advice and parts especially to Ashy, Scoff, Andrew Cooke
many thanks

:cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

engine out ? bet you can jack it up enough with the n/s mount undone so that you can whip the cover off and sort it. glad it's running :)

---

:cooter:

Will try that at the weekend

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

engine out ? bet you can jack it up enough with the n/s mount undone so that you can whip the cover off and sort it. glad it's running :)

---

Aye, easy enough, I've done mine with the engine in... :)

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/dta/DSCF3160.JPG

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/dta/DSCF3167.JPG

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/dta/DSCF3172.JPG

http://www.r4f1.btinternet.co.uk/dta/DSCF3175.JPG

I do all mine with the engine in too, but I think james has the oe covers inplace, I don't know how awkward they will be to remove in the tight 5 bay!

Oh, but looks like you runt the covers to Ashy ? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

Oh, but looks like you runt the covers to Ashy ? :)

---

Aye they are a bit fiddly but I don't even remember jacking the engine up to get them off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Aye they are a bit fiddly but I don't even remember jacking the engine up to get them off.

---

I have got the cover off not much room but came out with some force:D

Need to find my cam timing tools now, I know i put them somewhere safe:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

She is running at last, traced the wiring on the original 172 loom and I found the earth to the ECU to have a split in the cable sorted it out and she now idles. Only prob now is that the cam, tensioner has come loose:crap:

my modified fuel rail seems to be doing the job ok:coffee:

I will get a vid up but **** she is bloody loud with the powerflow sidey:cooter:

---

Well done mate! that's great news and a nice bit of detective work too !!! for a moment I thought I was going to beat you to it.. but as you sort yours my ECU fails :sad2: (it's on it's way to emerald as we speak)

I log onto this site everu night and the first thing i do is check to see if you've got it running!

Really pleased for you mate top work!

Thank feck for that!:agree:

Well done for finding that loose wire bud, I'm dreading my loom when it comes to it..

Gotta lay the volvo loom in with the clio loom and its gotta look good and be reliable for every day use..

Great work so far mate, can't wait to see your plans when u turbo it.. :coffee:

Just one question?

How did you know what mounts to use, that rubber mount that sits just down from the drivers side strut top mount, Is that mount standard in all renault cars ?

Reason i ask is becasue i bought i rsi engine mount and top mount for my volvo 480 turbo lump to go into my mk2 clio, they havent arrived yet and im taking a gamble on the wing mount that rubber one..
Some people have told me i need to change it, others say thay are all the same and that the rsi mount will bolt straight on?

Any body got any ideas as to weather all these wing mounts are the same, they all look the same to me ?

The top mount in my photos was welded in, there is no top mount at all on an R5.

If you look at the volvo conversions that people have done on 5's they dont bother with the top mount so I wouldn't worry too much about it!

I haven't bothered with a top mount for my 172 conversion either - but then again I've no immediate plans to turbo it

Nice one james really well done :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

I haven't bothered with a top mount for my 172 conversion either - but then again I've no immediate plans to turbo it

---

Same here I haven't bothered whilst I am running N/A form but with the future turbo conversion and the extra power i would defo go down the route of getting one welded on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gttnutter

Nice one james really well done :agree:

---

Cheers Rich, just need to sort my timing out now.

Also cheers to everyone above for the comments I agree it is about bloody time it was running. At one point I was thinking both Andrew Cooke and Andrew Warren where going to overtake me LOL. Not bad considering I only spend a couple of hours a week on the car due to work commitment and a really moany Mrs's + the 3 kids.

I am quiet impressed with it as it is my 1st engine conversion. Just need to sort the timing out to get it on the road then it will be a case of just tidying it up, not sure if I should leave the bonnet black or get it sprayed Tungy?

Good work James:agree:

Id get the bonnet painted tungy to match myself:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigsy

Good work James:agree:

Id get the bonnet painted tungy to match myself:)

---

I didnt know you were tungy coloured brigsy :laugh:

will you be coming on the 29th james so we can all have a look under the hood

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gttnutter

I didnt know you were tungy coloured brigsy :laugh:

will you be coming on the 29th james so we can all have a look under the hood

---

Rich, I very much doubt I will be there on the 29th but I will see what I can do with my time to try and get things sorted.

Fingers crossed I have now done the cam timing correct:scared: just got in from finishing it off not turned it over yet to see if ok.

Hope you didn't bend the valves :(
Be a right bummer if you have... Fingers crossed as i don't know how close the valves go to the pistons nor how much the belt was out when the tensioner came loose !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

Hope you didn't bend the valves :(
Be a right bummer if you have... Fingers crossed as i don't know how close the valves go to the pistons nor how much the belt was out when the tensioner came loose !

---

They go slighlty onto he the top of the pistons. I keep thinking I hope I haven't bent the valves

Did you rent the tools or buy them? I'm considering buying the 3, but might change my mind when I find out the price of them.

I rented the tools from a bloke of the cliosport site Renault wanted around £200 for the kit i just couldnt justify spending that so hired @ a cost of £30 there are a couple of blokes who do this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

They go slighlty onto he the top of the pistons. I keep thinking I hope I haven't bent the valves

---

Wern't it still running thou when you noticed the belt was loose, im sure in a previous post you said you switched it off and noticed that the belt was slack ?
If it was still running then i reakon you might be ok...

Have you wound it over today to see if it starts ?

Remember to do a couple of turns of the crank by hand first to check all is in the correct place.. :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TURBO'D CLIO

Wern't it still running thou when you noticed the belt was loose, im sure in a previous post you said you switched it off and noticed that the belt was slack ?
If it was still running then i reakon you might be ok...

Have you wound it over today to see if it starts ?

Remember to do a couple of turns of the crank by hand first to check all is in the correct place.. :agree:

---

Not been out yet to start her up but I done 2 turns on the crank last night and all seemed good belt is now alot tighter will try later need to put the rad back in 1st

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Not been out yet to start her up but I done 2 turns on the crank last night and all seemed good belt is now alot tighter will try later need to put the rad back in 1st

---

Dont worry about small things like rad's lol, just get out there and fire her up it will be ok to run for a few seconds with no water then switch it off, were all waiting on the up date lol .. :D

P.S good luck :cartman:

Well I have checked and checked the timing and all seems good my markings all line up. Did try to start but battery bloody flat :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Well I have checked and checked the timing and all seems good my markings all line up. Did try to start but battery bloody flat :(

---

:disagree:... that's a bugger... Tomoz thou hey, deffo try tomoz suspense is killing me... :wasntme:

come on, you got it to run yet?
Driven it yet ??

come on !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

come on, you got it to run yet?
Driven it yet ??

come on !!

---

No not yet started it weather was to bad yesterday, tonight is the night to try and crank it over to get it running and friday will be the day she is fully road legal and I discover more problems when driving it:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

No not yet started it weather was to bad yesterday, tonight is the night to try and crank it over to get it running and friday will be the day she is fully road legal and I discover more problems when driving it:laugh:

---

Yeah on the way down to mine

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fidos got a raider

Yeah on the way down to mine

---

FAIL FIDO on the way to mine, YOU stand CORRECTED

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

FAIL FIDO on the way to mine, YOU stand CORRECTED

---

What so you can look out your bedroom window as you wont be able to move

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fidos got a raider

What so you can look out your bedroom window as you wont be able to move

---

:cooter::cooter::cooter::cooter::upyours2::upyours 2::upyours::bla::bla::mart:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

:cooter::cooter::cooter::cooter::upyours2::upyours 2::upyours::bla::bla::mart:

---

Just messing man hope all goes well

been home on my lunch break

Had a quick chat with Fido on the phone,

Unplugged Car battery from charger now full of juice,

Placed battery in the R5 and plumbed in,

Turned the ignition key after turning immobiliser off,

and yep you guessed it she cranks with either no spark or injectors not firing again (Still got fuel pump on switch at mo) LOL oh well will have another look when I get home from work. Just makes me laugh


It will be running by the end of the night:smashpc:

Bloody want to be

'kin 'el mate, will she ever run:crap:

Hope you sort it soon, don't want ot go to the classifieds & find it there (coz i'll have to buy it then :wasntme: )

I'll try to pop round later & have a nosey, what times good matey ??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 5teve L

'kin 'el mate, will she ever run:crap:

Hope you sort it soon, don't want ot go to the classifieds & find it there (coz i'll have to buy it then :wasntme: )

I'll try to pop round later & have a nosey, what times good matey ??

---

I will be out the front playing with the car from 7 matey so anytime from then onwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I will be out the front playing with the car from 7 matey so anytime from then onwards.

---

I bet Lauren wishes you'd have kept the C1J in there now, at least it moved now & again :cooter:

it's a live it's a live - fecking loud with the sidey


30amp fuse had blown :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

it's a live it's a live - decking loud with the sidey


30amp fuse had blown :(

---

yaaaaaaaaay yaaaaaaaaaaay yaaaaaaaaaaaay james bring it to mine friday

well done mate
:)

well guess what I have ****ed it again LOL

I seem to have melted one of the pulleys ????
Thankfully it is all timed up slipt the tools back on and all good need to get another pulley from Renault.

I'll get a pic up in a mo

Here's a pic of the pulley:scratch:

It's a little strange as the belt tightness is controlld by the tensioner pully which all markings are aligned as supposed.

Ashy, Scoff, Andrew please help


New Pulley according to my Diaologys - 77 00 108 626 PULLEY LA 42.76

The cam kit I used was new with new pulleys:(

I'm pretty sure there is a spacer that goes between the pulley and the cyl head, do you have that installed ? Without that it will lock solid against the head when tightened up.

looks to me as though you've put the pulley on the wrong way around mate. There is a spacer as Scoff says which sits into the bearing and holds the pulley away from the block. I think the pulley is offset (i.e. the bearing isn't central) so if it was fitted the wrong way around the pulley would touch the block and not spin.

I'll go have a look in the garage if i've got one!

I think ashy's on the money james, I usually slip that pulley off to remove the cambelt quickly and I remember I was carefull to keep the pulley and spacer in the right order. Looking at that picture shows the belt has cut through over to one side, it should have been running closer to the middle.

The bit that is sticking out in the pic is the spacer, but now you say that I may have put it on the wrong way I am now thinking **** did I put it on the wrong way but looking at in my hand it looks the same on both sides aparft from the spacer being on one side




This is it just before then I heard a funny noise and stopped the car immediatly

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_MVI_5035.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scoff

I think ashy's on the money james, I usually slip that pulley off to remove the cambelt quickly and I remember I was carefull to keep the pulley and spacer in the right order. Looking at that picture shows the belt has cut through over to one side, it should have been running closer to the middle.

---

:cry::cry:

Have you guys got a closeup picture of your pulleys so i can see which way it should go on for next time:cooter:

Just been ot and had a look at an old 182 lump... You're right the pulley does fit either way round, and it looks in your picture like you've fitted the spacer so I'm not sure whats happened?

Heres a pic of the pulley and spacer

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=6194

Heres a couple of shots of the pulleys in position...

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=6195

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=6196

You'll know when its on the right way because it'll spin :D :p

have you used the wrong spacer or something? In your photo it doesnt look like it protrudes past the pulley?

Looking at the pulley and spacer on a flat service and the spacer gives about 2-3mm clearance from a flat service to the pulley wheel itself, I am going to assume that I have fitted it inorrectly looking at the way the belt has destroyed the pulley

is the belt wrecked then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

is the belt wrecked then?

---

No the belt looks good it has rubbed some of the lettering of the top but that is it

heres that pic you sent me

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...B1_77large.jpg

Yeah thats how my engine looked when the Renault tools where in place and with pulleys and the belt attached, I am now thinking did the pulley spin? I don't remember it spinning freely!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Yeah thats how my engine looked when the Renault tools where in place and with pulleys and the belt attached, I am now thinking did the pulley spin? I don't remember it spinning freely!!!

---

I would say you had the spacer on the wrong side and jammed the roller against the head, I've done a few and got the spacer on the wrong side... :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

No the belt looks good it has rubbed some of the lettering of the top but that is it

---

I'd be tempted to replace the belt aswell mate, might be damaged and just wear out quicker, £35 belt is cheaper than a head over haul with 16 new valves...

Can't beleave your luck dude, you thought u ****ed the timing but then it ran, now you have killed a roller and still NOT bent any valves... One lucky man.... good on you thou for seeing the funny side of it, better to be like that than stressing out as the problem get's greater lol ....

So what the plan of action now mate - any idea why it blew that fuse, possibly a short some where.. ?

Rob

Well many thanks to Ashy for the spare Cam pulley I have replaced the belt with yet another new one to be on the safe side. And I timed the car up again this time double checking then triple checking the pulleys and all seems good I have taken it for a quick drive around the block and all is good apart from my idle which seems a little high @ 2k if I adjust it 1 notch on the accelerator cable it goes to under 1k but stalls. I will have a play around and see what i can do but good news is that is bloody works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Well many thanks to Ashy for the spare Cam pulley I have replaced the belt with yet another new one to be on the safe side. And I timed the car up again this time double checking then triple checking the pulleys and all seems good I have taken it for a quick drive around the block and all is good apart from my idle which seems a little high @ 2k if I adjust it 1 notch on the accelerator cable it goes to under 1k but stalls. I will have a play around and see what i can do but good news is that is bloody works.

---

Wahoo!! congrats mate.. I can't wait till I can say the same :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

Wahoo!! congrats mate.. I can't wait till I can say the same :)

---

Looking at your thread matey you are almost there.

The one thing I to like with my conversion is the keeping of the original clocks. I still need to wire up the coolant temp though

Yeah, I was wondering about that as I need to send the coolant temp to the ECU so what do I use to feed the gauge on my dash? ..short of fixing my laptop on the dash :)

I am just going to use the orginal gtt temp wires and splice into the 172 loom that provides the temp feed to the ecu somewhere. Probably easier to wire up and than standalone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I am just going to use the orginal gtt temp wires and splice into the 172 loom that provides the temp feed to the ecu somewhere. Probably easier to wire up and than standalone.

---

so when you comming up then you homo sexual straight man (best of both ;) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

so when you comming up then you homo sexual straight man (best of both ;) )

---

:cooter:So that's why you want me over:laugh: you big gay polar bear


I am going to run the car locally tomoz to make sure all is good then i will make the journey to yours on thursday eve I fancy taking the back roads to yours aswell to get a feel for the old 5 aswell :burnrubber:

Thursday eve, ile put the waffle iron on, the coffee maker, and have plenty or party rings and bourbons:D:wasntme::laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

Thursday eve, ile put the waffle iron on, the coffee maker, and have plenty or party rings and bourbons:D:wasntme::laugh:

---

:agree: Sounds good I'll aim to get to you for 7ish if i am late give me a bell I would have prob broken down somewhere :laugh:

Good work james, Glad you replaced the belt aswell just to be on the safe side...

So is it quick then or did ya just poodle round the block ? :)

It was only a poddle :ashamed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

It was only a poddle :ashamed:

---

Never the less it moved on its own steam.. Good work matey :agree:

you wont be able to splice the Gt clocks into the 172 temp sensor mate. Best bet is to fit the Gt sender into the thermostat housing!

Glad its all running, you can adjust the idle on the throttle body mate, there is a grub screw in in behind the pulley on the TB. Using the cable to adjust the idle is the wrong way to do it.

Ashy.. does this mean I would need to run a separate sender if I want to see the temp on my clocks as well as feed my ecu (aftermarket)?

I'd better get another gtt water temp sender then.

Yeah I know about the grub screw but mine has been messed about with in the past and is mullered I am going to have to drill it out and use another bolt in it. In fact I have got the tb in my hand right now and am having a look at it whilst the mrs's is watching love actually.

the 172 temp sender for the dash is a 3 wire sender, Scoff will tell you what the 3 wires do. But your ECU will probably need a Bosch 2 pin type sender (which is what I use) they are the same thread so you can just swap them over!

If you want to retain the GT gauge then the best bet would be to weld a boss in the back of the thermostat and run the GT sender.

TB now sorted and can now adjust tb cam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

the 172 temp sender for the dash is a 3 wire sender, Scoff will tell you what the 3 wires do. But your ECU will probably need a Bosch 2 pin type sender (which is what I use) they are the same thread so you can just swap them over!

If you want to retain the GT gauge then the best bet would be to weld a boss in the back of the thermostat and run the GT sender.

---

One does temp gauge
One does temp warning light
Other is engine management

I split the clio wiring up and just nabbed the gauge wire and ran it right to my volvo lump, like you said you cant really use that sensor on your old clocks, u should be able to drill a small hole in the thermostat and put a tap down it and just screw in a r5 sensor single wire jobbie... :agree:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

the 172 temp sender for the dash is a 3 wire sender, Scoff will tell you what the 3 wires do. But your ECU will probably need a Bosch 2 pin type sender (which is what I use) they are the same thread so you can just swap them over!

If you want to retain the GT gauge then the best bet would be to weld a boss in the back of the thermostat and run the GT sender.

---

How weird my ph2 engine had a two wire plug and it works.. well should I say the ecu reads the temp - I'll double check though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TURBO'D CLIO

One does temp gauge
One does temp warning light
Other is engine management

---

Are you sure, ones normaly a sensor ground and ones +5v not sure about 3rd!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashy

Are you sure, ones normaly a sensor ground and ones +5v not sure about 3rd!

---

The 3 wires are
Coolant temp warning light number 9 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor input number 13 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor earth number 73 pin on ecu

I also need to get an engine speed signal to pins 24 & 54 on the ecu all I need to work out is which wire on the gtt speed cable I can take the signal from

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

The 3 wires are
Coolant temp warning light number 9 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor input number 13 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor earth number 73 pin on ecu

---

Ahh that'll explain why I only needed 13 & 73.. I haven't got a coolant warning light :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

I also need to get an engine speed signal to pins 24 & 54 on the ecu all I need to work out is which wire on the gtt speed cable I can take the signal from

---

why do you need speed? I thought the gtt speed cable was for road speed from the gearbox like MPH? don't you need engine speed (rpm) from the TDC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

why do you need speed? I thought the gtt speed cable was for road speed from the gearbox like MPH? don't you need engine speed (rpm) from the TDC?

---

Yeah which is what I have got but the cliosport boys say I need to take a speed signal from my speedo aswell unless they are pulling my leg

Also the OE 172 rad fan should this be on constantly or just come on when up to temp, not that I know what the temp is yet as I have no temp gauge:eek:











Also an update pic of car legally on the road:smokin:

Looks sweet as mate wish I had brought it when I had the chance:)

Coolant temperature sensor for 172:-

Three-way sensor, two tracks for the coolant
temperature information and 1 track
for the indication on the instrument panel.
This system is fitted with a single coolant temperature
sensor which is used by the injection, the fan
assembly and the temperature warning light on
the instrument panel.

Operation
Sensor 244 enables:
- the coolant temperature to be indicated on the
instrument panel,
- the injection computer to be informed of the
engine coolant temperature.
Depending on the coolant temperature, the injection
computer controls:
- the injection system,
- the fan assembly relays:
• the fan assembly is controlled at low speed if
the coolant temperature exceeds 100 °C and
stops when the temperature falls below
96 °C,
• the fan assembly is controlled at high speed
if the coolant temperature exceeds 102 °C
and stops when the temperature falls below
100 °C,
• the fan assembly may be controlled at low
speed for the anti-percolation system and at
high or low speed for the AC.
- the coolant temperature warning light.

COOLANT TEMPERATURE WARNING LIGHT
The warning light is controlled by the injection
computer if the coolant temperature exceeds 118
°C and is switched off if the temperature falls below
115 °C.

just checked my "warning light" wire is blanked off (factory) it's a phase 2.. odd one eh!?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

just checked my "warning light" wire is blanked off (factory) it's a phase 2.. odd one eh!?!

---

I thought that was the case. I'll bet the warning light is a CAN message to the dash. I was wondering about adding the wire back into the loom.

Well taken the r5 out for a run tonight sounds very very loud had a couple of probs like the heat wrap on the fanimold is giving of alot of smoke. Also rad fan wasn't coming on so have bypassed it to come as an ignition live for now.
Do have a real concern though which is how tappy / ticky the engine is? Are these engines supposed to be ?
I might do another oil change as I changed the oil back in nov 08 and the filter.

Have to say though the engine feels pretty responsive and revved all the way through to 7k with ease

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Well taken the r5 out for a run tonight sounds very very loud had a couple of probs like the heat wrap on the fanimold is giving of alot of smoke. Also rad fan wasn't coming on so have bypassed it to come as an ignition live for now.
Do have a real concern though which is how tappy / ticky the engine is? Are these engines supposed to be ?
I might do another oil change as I changed the oil back in nov 08 and the filter.

Have to say though the engine feels pretty responsive and revved all the way through to 7k with ease

---

tomorrows on then :) whoooop

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

tomorrows on then :) whoooop

---

o o whats happening tomorrow

just coz im nosey lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R5GTTRaider

o o whats happening tomorrow

just coz im nosey lol

---

Heading up to jon's gaff to take a look at his new 5 and running my conversion in only concerns I have is the amount of smoke my heat wrap is giving off.

ah i see, how bad is the smoke?

shame i dont know u lot would have tagged along for the drive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R5GTTRaider

ah i see, how bad is the smoke?

shame i dont know u lot would have tagged along for the drive

---

It like there is a fire under my bonnet but no flames :eek: a little worrying I am putting it down to the heat wrap being new and the fact it has got really wet over the winter period as water has got in through the 16v vent on the bonnet

is the smoke white or look like a kettle under your bonnet kinda steam

may well be wet heat wrap thats cooking off the water, tho does it look like its burnt or buring?

The heat wrap will smoke/stink like feck mate, Don't worry about it will stop after a few miles.

Good to hear its finally getting there:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

The 3 wires are
Coolant temp warning light number 9 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor input number 13 pin on ecu,
Coolant temp sensor earth number 73 pin on ecu

---

I was nearly right lol, i remember looking at mine and thinking hmmm... I didnt use any of mine on the clio loom but then i was fitting a volvo loom not a 172..

Great work so far mate, gonna be sweet when finished..:agree:

Looking forwrd to my drive tonight just don't like the thought of no temp gauge at the mo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Looking forwrd to my drive tonight just don't like the thought of no temp gauge at the mo

---

Tonight deffo on then....

ALL welcome.... Spose ile go asda for milk and bourbons... maybe some sherbert dip

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brigsy

The heat wrap will smoke/stink like feck mate, Don't worry about it will stop after a few miles.

Good to hear its finally getting there:)

---

Agree :agree: its always a nightmare!

No temp gauge :disagree: I wouldn't risk it just yet!

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JRP

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

---

Cheers jon well I now want to go back to what I know and the reason I love gtt's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

Cheers jon well I now want to go back to what I know and the reason I love gtt's

---

james, im actualy gutted that you dont like it. all the hard work and effort, and flue/sickness from it.

Mate... when mines done, my garage is yours :)

We need to find a good classic car restoration team in surrey

I see your asking for a r5 turbo lump ? are you taking this 172 lump out already.. ?

I thought it was going so well - how come the sudden change of heart.. :rolleyes:

:cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TURBO'D CLIO

I see your asking for a r5 turbo lump ? are you taking this 172 lump out already.. ?

I thought it was going so well - how come the sudden change of heart.. :rolleyes:

---

I drove it just didn't like it all worked well I just want a c1j back I have been thinking about going back for a while to be honest

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James5

:cry:
I drove it just didn't like it all worked well I just want a c1j back I have been thinking about going back for a while to be honest

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Ahhh don't tell me that.. I've only just got the engine running :) - you could always stick a low pressure turbo on it .. it may change your mind :)

what is it you don't like? Is it too civilised, or is it the slowness? What about the handling?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Cooke

what is it you don't like? Is it too civilised, or is it the slowness? What about the handling?

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itz wiv ot d boost

Cue the "Renault had it right from the factory" comment again ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Mart

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:scratch:

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Originally Posted by Mart

Cue the "Renault had it right from the factory" comment again ;) :D

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by Mart

Cue the "Renault had it right from the factory" comment again ;) :D

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:beer:to that!

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Originally Posted by Mart

Cue the "Renault had it right from the factory" comment again ;) :D

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They did with the Cio 172 IMO, as with the R5 GTT

Mixing the new reliability of the 172 engine with the 80s retro shape of the GT is certainly a good idea, it wasn't long ago everybody was doing the 'Valver' conversion so i'd assume the 172 lump was the next logical 'step'

Ashy, what did you think of the conversion pre turbo? I think i remember you taking it to Knockhill?

The Clio 172 itself is IMO a nice complete package for someone into spirited back road driving and trackdays, which i'd imagine is what RenaultSport intended this car for

James, James, James, what are you like !!

long faced at the mo dude:cry::cry: wheres james gone, he looked like i have for a year or so.

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Originally Posted by James5

:cry:
I drove it just didn't like it all worked well I just want a c1j back I have been thinking about going back for a while to be honest

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Mate nooooooooo, you come all this way and now your going back.. Just buy another r5 turbo and have 2, keeping ur 172 as a toy and turbo it...

You can't go back man you just can't :dearme:

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Originally Posted by James5

:cry:
I drove it just didn't like it all worked well I just want a c1j back I have been thinking about going back for a while to be honest

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are you quite sane ? you'd exchange a modern day 16v engine capable of making 170hp with no boost for a 1960's carb fed pushrod ? have a word :crap:

But ok ok, I know, there's more to it than that. it can be an emotional thing, a desire to stay original, or whatever else (none of which I subscribe to, but we're all different thankfully!!)

If it's soley down to the feel of the drive then believe me, once you turbocharge it you'll be glad you kept the modern block. If you hanker for originality then crack on, I'm sure folk will understand.

You can't have driven it far enough to make a decision surely?? Enjoy it for summer at least:)

the scope for power with a turbo conversion is awesome too, Half way there now its in the hole ;)

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Originally Posted by Scoff

I'm sure folk will understand.

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:gagged:

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Originally Posted by Andrew Warren

:gagged:

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It's the emotional attachment to the c1j that I miss. I have already started the removal process all auxillary parts all removed it is just a case of getting the engine out now which I will do next week.

fortunately I have no attachment to the Cleon in the Twingo :laugh:

they're gonna love this on Cliosport

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Originally Posted by Ricardo

Ashy, what did you think of the conversion pre turbo? I think i remember you taking it to Knockhill?

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I loved mine when it was NA... It was responsive, fairly quick and nice to drive :)

Its ten times better with a bit of boost :agree: I'm with Scoff, seems such a shame to pull it out after only driving it once!!

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Originally Posted by James5

It's the emotional attachment to the c1j that I miss. I have already started the removal process all auxillary parts all removed it is just a case of getting the engine out now which I will do next week.

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wow you work quick! anychance it'll be on the road for the rtoc santapod day?

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Originally Posted by Ashy

I loved mine when it was NA... It was responsive, fairly quick and nice to drive :)

Its ten times better with a bit of boost :agree: I'm with Scoff, seems such a shame to pull it out after only driving it once!!

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Ashy, how much did it cost to go turbo from N/A? I like the Clio but wouldn't mind knowing what's involved in doing the conversion :)

didn't really cost me anything mate, I made the manifold myself, allready had the bigger injectors, borrowed the turbo ;) and it was allready running standalone ecu so just needed a re-map. Althought i bought a paddle clutch plate for about £180.00? ish.

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Originally Posted by Ashy

didn't really cost me anything mate, I made the manifold myself, allready had the bigger injectors, borrowed the turbo ;) and it was allready running standalone ecu so just needed a re-map. Althought i bought a paddle clutch plate for about £180.00? ish.

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have you kept the same compression?

no mate i've lowered it!

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...pictureid=3057

Ahh yeah.. it's all coming back to me :)

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Originally Posted by Ashy

no mate i've lowered it!

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By machining down the OE pistons IIRC?

Ashy i don't suppose you have a list of all the parts needed to do the complete conversion?

Standalone ecu, intercooler and pipe run, custom manifold, custom down pipe, T3 turbo, turbo oil feed and oil drain, skim the pistons to lower compression, setup costs for mapping ecu, injectors (prob use meganne 225 jobbies), sparkies again prob 225 jobbies, weld a boss onto the sump for oil return from turbo, there prob a few more bits needed.

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Originally Posted by James5

Standalone ecu, intercooler and pipe run, custom manifold, custom down pipe, T3 turbo, turbo oil feed and oil drain, skim the pistons to lower compression, setup costs for mapping ecu, injectors (prob use meganne 225 jobbies), sparkies again prob 225 jobbies, weld a boss onto the sump for oil return from turbo, there prob a few more bits needed.

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Thanks Jamesy :)

Think i may pop round for a chat later matey...... give you a slap or two as well :scratch:

Awesome read...James, thanks for putting me off :cooter: :laugh: ;)

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Originally Posted by Spooky

Awesome read...James, thanks for putting me off :cooter: :laugh: ;)

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Spooky don't let my experiences put you off, the conversion to be honest is quiet easy to do and I would recomend going down the standalone route.

If i stuck with the F4r lump I would have looked into wider track and played alot more with the coilover settings and some stiffer springs, I would have also gone the T3 cossie turbo route.

As Scoff said to me above somewhere am I insane swapping a modern 16v engine capable of 170bhp as standard with little effort. I do miss turning the key everytime and it starting without fault. It was an emotional thing for the C1J (sad) and family that made me sway back to C1J as I was spending a lot of time on the 5 sorting little problems hear and there and juggling my time with the Mrs's & my 3 kids (and forth child now on way aswell). Thankfully the 5 is only a hobby car and the Zafira GSI is a pretty quick people carrier.

Back to C1J and the car is fully road legal and ready for Nat Day, only thing that needs sorting really is the engine loom as the rad fan wiring has a bit of fire damage so not usable so fan on a manual switch (new loom still required) but at the time being seems to be ok with the switch. Am loving the C1J at the mo with 16psi manifold on the little T2 feels really good.

Just toying with ya dude :D

My car is my daily so this would have to be a case of source what I need and literally, do it in a weekend.

I'm convinced that it's achievable, I know you had some electrical/technical gremlins but if you didn't, that car wouldn't have taken so much time to get on the road :agree:

And trust me when I say I was impressed with the speed of conversion, very good work and that aspect is really twisting my arm to press ahead with it.

I've always stuck firm with the C1J, I've never had any reason to doubt it reliability or durability wise. Saying that, I've always felt if I had the oppurtunity to do the conversion, this would be the one I'd follow up.

I'm already making hay into my spares, quite a lot of parts could be up for sale in the near future to fund this.

If you had all the parts ready, I would say it could be done in a weekend, look at my list of parts needed and you will get an idea of what is required to get it running. I hate electrics but since doing the conversion have got used to playing with a multimeter.

Quick tip when / if you do the conversion put the engine and gearbox together out of the car with nothing else attached then put the engine back in.

Volvo F series engines will be your friends to get things cheap or free,alternator brackets top and bottom, also the 1.7 gtx engine mount bracket, you can use the 5 rubber mount.

You will also need a better fuel pump than the GTT 1 as I don't think it will flow enough for the 172.

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Originally Posted by Spooky

Just toying with ya dude :D

My car is my daily so this would have to be a case of source what I need and literally, do it in a weekend.

I'm convinced that it's achievable, I know you had some electrical/technical gremlins but if you didn't, that car wouldn't have taken so much time to get on the road :agree:

And trust me when I say I was impressed with the speed of conversion, very good work and that aspect is really twisting my arm to press ahead with it.

I've always stuck firm with the C1J, I've never had any reason to doubt it reliability or durability wise. Saying that, I've always felt if I had the oppurtunity to do the conversion, this would be the one I'd follow up.

I'm already making hay into my spares, quite a lot of parts could be up for sale in the near future to fund this.

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:agree:

Shame mate, big big shame, u shud just do a low boost turbo conversion, i love mine and wud not go bk to c1j again after owning this, shud have just given it abit more time to c how u got on wit it mate then poss add the turbo wen funds allow, each to there own but just dont c the logic in goin bk to the 1.4 bud

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Originally Posted by steveR5GTT

Shame mate, big big shame, u shud just do a low boost turbo conversion, i love mine and wud not go bk to c1j again after owning this, shud have just given it abit more time to c how u got on wit it mate then poss add the turbo wen funds allow, each to there own but just dont c the logic in goin bk to the 1.4 bud

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I know matey is a shame it's like going back to Horse and cart (well not quiet) but I would like to EFI the C1J once I have seen a few succesfull conversions done and completed

sorry to bring this thread back up after so long but what a journey and just as the plot was coming to an end you throw in a twist like ripping it straight out. emaotional to say the least....

i just had to say well done james.

now to read through andrew cooks thread, i hope its as enthralling as this was :D

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Originally Posted by Josie172cup

sorry to bring this thread back up after so long but what a journey and just as the plot was coming to an end you throw in a twist like ripping it straight out. emaotional to say the least....

i just had to say well done james.

now to read through andrew cooks thread, i hope its as enthralling as this was :D

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Crikey not seen this thread in a while :laugh::ashamed::coffee:.

And now I am doing F7p turbo conversion :laugh:

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.p...ictureid=16385

How strange taken 10 years of various conversion and i am back with an F4r in a GTT but turbo'd and 420bhp

I guess hindsight as they say!:D