View Full Version : Turbo Toaster
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Since my thread off the old site has been lost I guess I should start afreash 1
Well this is the turbo toaster, a 1986 phase 1 GTTurbo in pearl white
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=75&pictureid=635
So what am I doing to it now, well if you've looked at my profile you'll see some interesting entries on my spec list, yep its EFI time baby:D
This is how she currently looks, 2 thirds of the way through the conversion, roll on wednesday when she goes to Emerald for mapping
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=75&pictureid=810
Adey aka Ewok
14-09-2008, 17:58
that plenum looks tiny? or is it the picture?
Andrew Cooke
14-09-2008, 18:03
that plenum looks tiny? or is it the picture?
it looks small and oval, but I think it may be round and chamfered.
looking good :) injectors might be in a bit steep for my liking, but I'm no manifold expert :)
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
that plenum looks tiny? or is it the picture?
We actually did a test by blocking all the holes in it and filling it with water, we did the same with the stock manifold and the injection 1 was nearly a 1/4 of a litre larger.
looking good :) injectors might be in a bit steep for my liking, but I'm no manifold expert :)
They may not be but there is 1 for each cyclinder so thats gotta be good
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there is 1 for each cyclinder so thats gotta be good
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definately a good start :)
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there is 1 for each cyclinder so thats gotta be good
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definately a good start :)
yep, the dizzy is gone aswell and the throttle body is much larger 2, I nicked it straight from a Mitsubishi Starion
Here's a side on pic of the manifold, yes the injectors are steep Scoff but the boosted air will carry the fuel into the head no probs, we even got a chap who used to work for the seat WRC rally team back in the mid nineties and he said it would be fine if I run enough BOOST:D
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=75&pictureid=634
Credit me some basic knowledge of manifolds, it isn't your boosted-air I'm worried about ;)
Its a bad thing to assume stuff, like the person your talking to a) knows nothing (me) or b) knows everything (your WRC friend)
Hopefully it'll be OK, but if you struggle to map it at low load then you'll know where to look :)
Here's a side on pic of the manifold, yes the injectors are steep Scoff but the boosted air will carry the fuel into the head no probs, we even got a chap who used to work for the seat WRC rally team back in the mid nineties and he said it would be fine if I run enough BOOST:D
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=75&pictureid=634
Looking good mate :)
with regards to manifold design a good rule of thumb is......
Each runner should hold the capacity of one cylinder.
The plenum chamber should hold the capacity of the engine.
Chris:)
Credit me some basic knowledge of manifolds, it isn't your boosted-air I'm worried about ;)
Its a bad thing to assume stuff, like the person your talking to a) knows nothing (me) or b) knows everything (your WRC friend)
Hopefully it'll be OK, but if you struggle to map it at low load then you'll know where to look :)
Wo wo wo I'm not trying to say I know more than you Scoff, there ain't a chance of that happening, I'm just telling you what I've been told and the fact that the guy that actually built the manifold does this kinda thing all day long (you should see his Lancer, a custom marvel) and has so far not had any probs with his work, yeah I know you shouldn't belive everythin your told by "experts" but in this case I wouldn't have a clue where to even start so I'm having to take a leap of faith and if it don't work then he will recive a good shoeing
Well its done, my R5 now runs EFI :D she runs sweet as, starts first time everytime and there was no problem mapping the VNT but the clutch decided it was gunna start slipping before we could finish a full map so for the time being its got a 4grand rev limit to stop me breaking somit and as soon as I get the chance o change the clutch it'll go back for final mapping, this does mean I won't be on the track at National day though:(
Sounds good mate.......Come on Oli, you can do the clutch before Nat Day ??? :D:)
car.crash
17-09-2008, 21:18
lets see what it does on the track :)
Sounds good mate.......Come on Oli, you can do the clutch before Nat Day ??? :D:)
Yeah I could get the clutch done but I'd only be able to get another 480T jobbie in time and there wouldn't be time to get the mapping finished:(
oh well maybe next year
Oh my god, I just drove the 5 properly for the first time since I converted it to EFI, yeah the mapping isn't finished cus of the clutch but she don't have take off and thats off boost, when the boost hits all hell breaks lose and thats just 14psi:eek:
I'm scared:scared::scared::scared:
I can only begin to imagine how fast it must feel, well done :)
I can only begin to imagine how fast it must feel, well done :)
Its not in the league of yours but I have felt acceleration like that since I had a go in an ariel atom
I really am scared:scared::scared::scared:
don't be scared......enjoy the fear.........
thats why God gave you a muscle round your ar5ehole
BlueFish5Gt
20-09-2008, 16:19
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Is it that much of a difference between a carb and E.F.I?:scared:
dangerous dave
20-09-2008, 17:52
don't be scared......enjoy the fear.........
thats why God gave you a muscle round your ar5ehole
:laugh:
don't be scared......enjoy the fear.........
thats why God gave you a muscle round your ar5ehole
:scared::laugh::laugh::laugh:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Is it that much of a difference between a carb and E.F.I?:scared:
Dunno fully yet but off boost power is defo up and when the boost starts to build it seems to pull harder, having the bigger throttle body has gotta make a difference to low end torque, could just be my carb was overfueling alot
Andrew Cooke
20-09-2008, 20:14
it should make a big difference off boost, engines don't like to suck through straws.
it should make a big difference off boost, engines don't like to suck through straws.
I've defo noticed a difference but the mapping isn't finished yet so there still more to come
And I'm still scared:scared:
newbstar*
22-09-2008, 15:05
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
get a clip of a run soon.or a graph of the final mapping session.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
get a clip of a run soon.or a graph of the final mapping session.
I'll be at ND so you can see it running in the metal yaself
Rob@Backyardracing
22-09-2008, 20:26
Get to pod my friend... would like to see your traps before winter.....;)
Get to pod my friend... would like to see your traps before winter.....;)
Thats the plan:D
Rob@Backyardracing
22-09-2008, 20:44
11th???????:)
11th???????:)
Doubtfull, I'm gunna do the clutch on the 4th and the mapping will need finishing befoe any 1/4mile fun can begin
don't be scared......enjoy the fear.........
thats why God gave you a muscle round your ar5ehole
:laugh:
don't be scared......enjoy the fear.........
thats why God gave you a muscle round your ar5ehole
Its gotta be said, that is gunna go down as the best qoute in the entire RTOC history:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Still don't know why I won when that mint R21 in black was there but I ain't half feeling smug
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=75&pictureid=1261
Its gotta be said, that is gunna go down as the best qoute in the entire RTOC history:laugh::laugh::laugh:
and after Mallory you its a statement as well as a quote....
ROFPMSL
Well the taster has been held for 3 weeks since I fitted the new clutch, the first time I tried to drive it, it stalled and wouldn't restart, due to my change in status I didn't even look at it, just pushed it back in the garage and left it but 2day I got myself into gear and got on with trying to fix and what a dumb arse I am, it was a stupid little problem that I should've spotted straight away had my mind been on the job in hand, see guys this why women are evil, they take ya mind off ya car:sad2:
Just got back from emerald after what should have been the final mapping session but the toaster decided this was not to be, first off we could stop the vnt overboosting, Dave's underware suffered major damage when it hit 26psi:eek:
By taking it off the dyno it sorted itself out so we went to put it back on when we noticed the large puddle of oil directly under where the bottom pulley is, there was oil everywhere :( whats worse is I only resealed the the timing cover and replaced the oil seal for the bottom pulley on saturday, can't see where its coming from and it only seems to happen at high oil pressure:(
But I gotta say its gettin faster, at only 10psi I saw 170wheel horse power at 1 point and thats before we tried winding up the boost
Now because of the slight problems I had on the dyno on monday my 5 still has a 4500rpm rev limit for safety reasons I wasn't expecting it to beat anythin but 2day I was tailgated by a a Jag XJ6 for a couple of miles when we came to a round about that exits onto a dual carage way and I knew the Jag was gunna for it so I put my foot down and bugger me if I didn't pull away from it like he was stood still:D
Mudslinger
29-11-2008, 02:17
well done fella car is coming along nice :cool:
what sort of power are you aiming for ? the mapping sessions can be very frustrating for the operator all the stop starting finding the little things needing looked at that are only highlighted once its seeing some revs, im almost over that bit now , ive just to try get some more miles on mine , get some fuel cosumption figures and drive it , then ill take it back for a final check of the map and maybe a few tweeks .
Dunno what to expect power wise, it'll make as much as it makes, I'd like 200wheel horse power but I'll have to wait and see.
How's yours going Mud? if you've got a finished ignition map I might want to nick it
Andrew Cooke
29-11-2008, 14:05
How's yours going Mud? if you've got a finished ignition map I might want to nick it
you might want to, but that would be a very bad idea, your engine is too different to Mud's to even consider doing that.
you might want to, but that would be a very bad idea, your engine is too different to Mud's to even consider doing that.
True but it can be changed to suit mine
Right I've sorted the oil leak that ended the last mapping sesion early, turns out it was the rubber seal between the bottom of the timing cover and the sump.
With help from JP and his LM-1 We've been able to raise my rev limit safetly to 5500rpm to make the car abit more fun before it goes back to emerald, but I'm now having major boost creep problems, the VNT boosts to 11psi as normal but as the revs climb past 4000rpm it creeps up fast, by 5500rpm its nearly 25psi, anyone got any ideas why this is happening now when it never did on the carb?
Could the throttle body be too big? or is there somit else I should look for?
Andrew Cooke
06-12-2008, 17:23
did you ever check the boost at the carb top? It might just be that now you've removed the 25mm restrictor the boost is getting to the inlet.
Throttle size shouldn't give you boost creep, lack of flow through the turbine will.
did you ever check the boost at the carb top? It might just be that now you've removed the 25mm restrictor the boost is getting to the inlet.
Throttle size shouldn't give you boost creep, lack of flow through the turbine will.
or too small a wastegate port
Andrew Cooke
06-12-2008, 19:05
or too small a wastegate port
often the case with a VNT:cry:
oh, vnt :D I should read the whole thread I suppose.
sounds like he needs a w/g aswell, or the vanes are not opening as far as they could or should ? dunno, never set one up.
often the case with a VNT:cry:
:laugh:
This is a top thread. It's amazing how difficult it is to get these C1J conversions successfully/fully mapped. Every time I read an update on an EFI thread there's been another attempted mapping and yet another set back. It's like carrot on a stick and particularly frustrating for the neutral, let alone the owner. Keep at it :agree:
More pics and print outs please...
Its proper annoying, I knew that no one has managed to map a VNT with EFI properly but after the first session it seemed it wasn't gunna be a problem :( best layed plans huh:cry:
It makes no freckin sense to me why it won't work, all I have done is replaced the single carb with 4 injectors, a bigger throttle body and the dizzy with a coil pack and everything works perfect, just not the VNT.
Yes the engine is running more effiecently but that alone shouldn't be causing this.
Its gotta be do able, I mean look at the VW golf, the mk4 diesel had a vnt and from what I've been told the mk5 GTi has 1 too, so how the hell did VW do it.
I'm gunna try a smaller body and I'll let ya know how I get on, now does anyone know what car uses a body somewhere between 30mm and 45mm?
did you ever check the boost at the carb top? It might just be that now you've removed the 25mm restrictor the boost is getting to the inlet.
Throttle size shouldn't give you boost creep, lack of flow through the turbine will.
When I had the carb I was getting 14psi before the carb and 10psi after, now it boosts up to 14psi then settles down to 10psi as normal but after 4500rpm creeps fast and thats measured at the manifold
Andrew Cooke
08-12-2008, 20:36
if you really think a smaller throttle is what you want try and limit how far the one you have opens.
Andrew Cooke
08-12-2008, 20:39
if you're able to apply pressure to the actuator have a look at how much pressure it takes to fully open the VNT, also check that it does fully open.
do you think you could have a leak in the pipe to the actuator?
Have you tie-wrapped the pipe to the actuator? mine leaked at a bar.
Andrew Cooke
08-12-2008, 20:41
oh yeah, I think VW use a MAF sensor, which I think is where we started however many months ago...
Its proper annoying, I knew that no one has managed to map a VNT with EFI properly
Mr Cooke has!!
Andrew Cooke
08-12-2008, 20:47
Mr Cooke has!!
wrong, as I said way back, you can't map out how much the VNT changes the VE of the engine with a MAP sensor.
Andrew Cooke
08-12-2008, 20:48
anyway, another question for you, which side of the throttle does the actuator pipe go to?
if you really think a smaller throttle is what you want try and limit how far the one you have opens.
Sorta tried that already and it seems to work, I tie wrapped a piece of wood to the underside of the throttle peddle:D bodge it and scarpper lol
The actuator is opening fully as far as I can tell.
I've replace the actutor hose twice and no change.
I always tie wrap vacuum hoses, I've seen what happens when they come loose.
The actuator pipe connects after the throttle body.
Call me stupid, whats the VE of an engine?
I knew that no one has managed to map a VNT with EFI properly
Really? ;)
Great thread, I have been reading this from the start. :) Good to see more EFI C1J's being built.
Stick with it mate, you'll get there in the end I'm sure. It'll be worth all the stress, money and time.
Andrew Cooke
09-12-2008, 14:08
The actuator pipe connects after the throttle body.
Call me stupid, whats the VE of an engine?
sounds like you need a wastegate then. You wouldn't be the first to use one with a VNT.
Actuator pipe needs to be before the throttle, otherwise when you close the throttle the vanes will try and keep the boost up - ie you won't really be controlling the power with your foot.
VE - Volumetric Efficiency. ie how much air flows through the engine at a particular RPM
sounds like you need a wastegate then. You wouldn't be the first to use one with a VNT.
Actuator pipe needs to be before the throttle, otherwise when you close the throttle the vanes will try and keep the boost up - ie you won't really be controlling the power with your foot.
VE - Volumetric Efficiency. ie how much air flows through the engine at a particular RPM
How has everyone else plumbed in a wastegate? did ya get a cutom manifold made up or is there some kinda adaptor that'll fit between the manifold and turbo?
Right I'll move the actuator pipe to before the throttle body, me being dumb didn't know you shouldn't have it after.
So what does VE actually mean then? is there a maximum air flow? how do you measure it?
So what does VE actually mean then? is there a maximum air flow? how do you measure it?
:google: :D
:google: :D
Ha ha very funny:rolleyes:
Ha ha very funny:rolleyes:
..........but true http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency ;)
Thanks Stu. Given you're trying to sort out EFI on the C1J, it wasn't hard eh Os. :rolleyes:
it should really be a common sence thing for any engine builder, or tuner atleast! whoever mapped your car should know this stuff. if you have a variable restrictor (VNT) on the output of an engine (exhaust) then the ammount of air the engine consumes will vary accordingly. it all becomes a bit 3d. no longer is airflow connected only to manifold pressure and RPM but it's dependant on the the VNT too. since you need to match fuel with air then the afr is going to shift about as the vnt does it's thing.
now I've never mapped a car with VNT so I'm probably talking bollocks but I'd guess that I might be able to map the on-boost portion of map a bit rich to cover my arse, not ideal!
Andrew Cooke
09-12-2008, 23:19
it should really be a common sence thing for any engine builder, or tuner atleast! whoever mapped your car should know this stuff. if you have a variable restrictor (VNT) on the output of an engine (exhaust) then the ammount of air the engine consumes will vary accordingly. it all becomes a bit 3d. no longer is airflow connected only to manifold pressure and RPM but it's dependant on the the VNT too. since you need to match fuel with air then the afr is going to shift about as the vnt does it's thing.
now I've never mapped a car with VNT so I'm probably talking bollocks but I'd guess that I might be able to map the on-boost portion of map a bit rich to cover my arse, not ideal!
you're spot on there, and that's what I did. I'm hoping that it's better with the reduced overlap of my new cam. The problem is, it also means you have to be conservative with the timing too. The other thing I'm doing is mapping the VNT position, so that should mean that the vanes are always in the same position in the same part of the map - give or take any transients...
Mudslinger
09-12-2008, 23:46
you're spot on there, and that's what I did. I'm hoping that it's better with the reduced overlap of my new cam. The problem is, it also means you have to be conservative with the timing too. The other thing I'm doing is mapping the VNT position, so that should mean that the vanes are always in the same position in the same part of the map - give or take any transients...
that sounds like an expensive mapping session on the rollers /dyno ?
..........but true http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency) ;)
Interesting read, still not sure on everything but then I'm no engineer lol.
Thanks Stu. Given you're trying to sort out EFI on the C1J, it wasn't hard eh Os. :rolleyes:
Oi, efi is the easy bit, getting it to work with a vnt is hard bit and before you say I'm not mapping it, I wouldn't have a clue, thats why I'm letting Dave do it.
it should really be a common sence thing for any engine builder, or tuner atleast! whoever mapped your car should know this stuff. if you have a variable restrictor (VNT) on the output of an engine (exhaust) then the ammount of air the engine consumes will vary accordingly. it all becomes a bit 3d. no longer is airflow connected only to manifold pressure and RPM but it's dependant on the the VNT too. since you need to match fuel with air then the afr is going to shift about as the vnt does it's thing.
now I've never mapped a car with VNT so I'm probably talking bollocks but I'd guess that I might be able to map the on-boost portion of map a bit rich to cover my arse, not ideal!
See thats interesting cus Dave had no problem getting the fueling to sit at exactly the afr he wanted, even when the boost shot up to silly amounts the fueling stayed spot on, when JP helped my rasie the rev limit he connected his LM-1 and watched the fueling and it never ran lean, even Dave hadn't finished the fueling map that far the ECU's factory defults were still in place which is to run abit rich which it did, it doesn't seem to have any problem fueling the VNT, just keeping the boost under control is the problem
you're spot on there, and that's what I did. I'm hoping that it's better with the reduced overlap of my new cam. The problem is, it also means you have to be conservative with the timing too. The other thing I'm doing is mapping the VNT position, so that should mean that the vanes are always in the same position in the same part of the map - give or take any transients...
How do you map the vane positions? scurb that how do you even tell where they are?
Andrew Cooke
10-12-2008, 13:09
See thats interesting cus Dave had no problem getting the fueling to sit at exactly the afr he wanted, even when the boost shot up to silly amounts the fueling stayed spot on, when JP helped my rasie the rev limit he connected his LM-1 and watched the fueling and it never ran lean, even Dave hadn't finished the fueling map that far the ECU's factory defults were still in place which is to run abit rich which it did, it doesn't seem to have any problem fueling the VNT, just keeping the boost under control is the problem
How do you map the vane positions? scurb that how do you even tell where they are?
On the dyno things are static, it's when you get on and off the throttle that the fuelling goes silly. Maybe you won't see it, depending upon how fast your lamda reacts. I log this stuff and get to worry about it later. That said you won't have the overlap, or flow of my engine, so maybe it won't get so pissy about backpressure.
measuring and controlling stuff just costs time and money...
Interesting read, still not sure on everything but then I'm no engineer lol.
Oi, efi is the easy bit, getting it to work with a vnt is hard bit and before you say I'm not mapping it, I wouldn't have a clue, thats why I'm letting Dave do it.
Fair play Os. The only thing I'd say is that you're asking for a lot of help from certain members in bottoming this boost/fuelling/VNT issue. I'm sure the guys are more than happy to help and the thread is really interesting for the rest of us. In return for the assitance you're getting however, you'd have thought you'd at least be using Google where possible (i.e. to help you understand physics/mechanics basics), instead of adding the extra load to Andy (or whoever).
Might be worth looking at other turbo options instead of the vnt? Plenty of good blowers out there. Is it really worth all the hassle of trying to set it up, i.e mapping costs, parts & time wasted etc.
Bob on Brigsy :agree:
If it were that much aggro (and let's be honest, everyone who's tried fitting a vnt to a gtt before has had said aggro in plentiful supply), wouldn't it make more sense to just fit a conventional blower & be done with it?
The efi setup in itself surely outweighs any disadvantage of a 'slower' spooling conventional turbo being in situ?
Fair play Os. The only thing I'd say is that you're asking for a lot of help from certain members in bottoming this boost/fuelling/VNT issue. I'm sure the guys are more than happy to help and the thread is really interesting for the rest of us. In return for the assitance you're getting however, you'd have thought you'd at least be using Google where possible (i.e. to help you understand physics/mechanics basics), instead of adding the extra load to Andy (or whoever).
I have tried mate but as I said before I'm no engineer and understanding stuff like that is abit beyond me, yeah I can bolt stuff together no probs but get to the technical stuff and i'm lost, now if it was women I wouldn't have any probs in making scream with pleasure in less than a minute:D
Bob on Brigsy :agree:
If it were that much aggro (and let's be honest, everyone who's tried fitting a vnt to a gtt before has had said aggro in plentiful supply), wouldn't it make more sense to just fit a conventional blower & be done with it?
The efi setup in itself surely outweighs any disadvantage of a 'slower' spooling conventional turbo being in situ?
True but just because somit is hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, if we did try we'd still be leaving in caves
Aii, and I'm all for development ideas, but in fairness you've been dicking around for months trying to resolve this, and surely there comes a point where it just ain't gonna happen.
When I see someone like Andy struggling to get a variable unit working sufficiently good enough, and bearing in mind the application for his car/turbo is hill-climbs, where yours is more road-usage & hence more 'necessary' to set up correctly, I think the caves you mention would be pretty desolate by now...
Aii, and I'm all for development ideas, but in fairness you've been dicking around for months trying to resolve this, and surely there comes a point where it just ain't gonna happen.
When I see someone like Andy struggling to get a variable unit working sufficiently good enough, and bearing in mind the application for his car/turbo is hill-climbs, where yours is more road-usage & hence more 'necessary' to set up correctly, I think the caves you mention would be pretty desolate by now...
I haven't been dicking around with this for months, I've only had the problems with boost since the last dyno seesion which was on the 24th of november but I've been busy trying to trace this oil leak since then, I have been dicking around with other issues such as the oil leak and slipping clutch but those can happen on any car
My bad. I must be getting confused between that and the efi install itself.
Fair play for seeing it through; it'll be a good conversion when it's all tickity boo :agree:
My bad. I must be getting confused between that and the efi install itself.
Fair play for seeing it through; it'll be a good conversion when it's all tickity boo :agree:
No worries dude
I have tried mate but as I said before I'm no engineer and understanding stuff like that is abit beyond me, yeah I can bolt stuff together no probs but get to the technical stuff and i'm lost
Sigh. You didn't try in this instance and in any case if Wiki can't help you understand it, how is Andy supposed to do any better. More pertinently, if it's beyond you, why are you asking. Forget it I'm out, but good luck with resolving the issues. :agree:
Sigh. You didn't try in this instance and in any case if Wiki can't help you understand it, how is Andy supposed to do any better. More pertinently, if it's beyond you, why are you asking. Forget it I'm out, but good luck with resolving the issues. :agree:
When I see technical stuff writen down it tends to blur, where as if some explains in simple terms I can sometimes understands whats being said, I am dislexic ya know (can't even spell it lol)
cool, well its good that it maps up OK, that would have been my only worry really.
re your boost control, how did you get on with running the actuator before the throttle ? it can do some wierd stuff at part throttle when you have it conencted to the manifold. there's nothing simpler than going straight to the compressor housing with the pipe.
if it's still going mad after that then I guess its down to adjustment of the vanes or the actual sizing of turbine ? can you get a too-small a vnt that is un-able to open up enough to keep the boost within limits ? as I say, I know fudge all about vnt, I'm just applying some logic :)
Mudslinger
10-12-2008, 22:32
id love to see Alan at AVA's face if i turned up there with a vnt strapped to mine and asked him to map it :wasntme: not cause i doubt his ability to be able to do it more of the case would be why????
as others have said is it really worth the extra hastle , i can see why andy is spending time trying to get the best out of using a vnt as he will only use the car for hill climbs, but for a road car and the power im guessing your aiming for all it will do for u is light up the front tyres @2k rpm instead of at 4k and probably make your power band shorter ,although i have no idea what size of turbo your using .
Ive been toying with the idea of going for a bigger turbo but i think for the way i like to drive and the roads i mostly drive on the t25 seems to be ideal and a good compromise ,and sticking with what i set out to have my 5 like a bit of an all rounder not losing track by chasing those magical bhp figures .
ditch the vnt m8 ;)
LukeRobbo
10-12-2008, 22:38
Got a poster of this car on my wall and was great to see it in the flesh at nationals day.Keep up the good work.Great modifications and i like how it looks almost factory with the phase1 front bumper and decals.
cool, well its good that it maps up OK, that would have been my only worry really.
re your boost control, how did you get on with running the actuator before the throttle ? it can do some wierd stuff at part throttle when you have it conencted to the manifold. there's nothing simpler than going straight to the compressor housing with the pipe.
if it's still going mad after that then I guess its down to adjustment of the vanes or the actual sizing of turbine ? can you get a too-small a vnt that is un-able to open up enough to keep the boost within limits ? as I say, I know fudge all about vnt, I'm just applying some logic :)
Yeah I was worried about how the mapping would go, after hearing so many people say ya couldn't have a EFI and a VNT I thought I was pushing my luck but if the only problem I'm having boost control it could be alot worse.
Annoyingly there's no tap off the compressor housing to connect the actuator hose, so I'm gunna tap it into the first boost pipe after the turbo, hopefully that'll make even a little bit of a difference.
id love to see Alan at AVA's face if i turned up there with a vnt strapped to mine and asked him to map it :wasntme: not cause i doubt his ability to be able to do it more of the case would be why????
as others have said is it really worth the extra hastle , i can see why andy is spending time trying to get the best out of using a vnt as he will only use the car for hill climbs, but for a road car and the power im guessing your aiming for all it will do for u is light up the front tyres @2k rpm instead of at 4k and probably make your power band shorter ,although i have no idea what size of turbo your using .
Ive been toying with the idea of going for a bigger turbo but i think for the way i like to drive and the roads i mostly drive on the t25 seems to be ideal and a good compromise ,and sticking with what i set out to have my 5 like a bit of an all rounder not losing track by chasing those magical bhp figures .
ditch the vnt m8 ;)
Honestly if I did this again with another R5 I wouldn't use a VNT but since I've already started with this 1 I intend to see it through, yeah life would be alot simpler with a T25 but I like to at least try get stuff working
Got a poster of this car on my wall and was great to see it in the flesh at nationals day.Keep up the good work.Great modifications and i like how it looks almost factory with the phase1 front bumper and decals.
Cheers bud, never thought my car would be a pin up lol, when it went for paint the 1 thing I said was "I went to keep it factory looking but with a modern twist"
Oli, if you want a proper threaded insert for the compressor housing, i'll send you one. If there isn't a blanking plug you'll need to tap and drill the comp housing though, which is nearly impossible to **** up.
Oli, if you want a proper threaded insert for the compressor housing, i'll send you one. If there isn't a blanking plug you'll need to tap and drill the comp housing though, which is nearly impossible to **** up.
I'll be able to f**k that up :D
thats ok mate, I've got naff all time at the mo anyway
I do love it when I'm proved right, when my 5 was in carrera gettin paint I had a 200sx as winter beater, when I sold it, it was a non runner so I took a few bits off before hand 1 of them being the turbo and it has a take off in the compressor housing, now if I'd listerned to me old dear I woulda got rid of that months, glad I didn't now.
After 20mins in a soaking wet, muddy scrap yard I have a throttle body I think will help, the 1 I originally used was off a Mitsibushi Starion and it was 55mm internal dia, now I have a 40mm internal dia job off a ford fiesta, all it needs is a hole blanking, an old bracket removed and my TPS sensor fitted and calibrated, I'll you guys know how I get on.
I don't see the point in fitting a smaller throttle body if your wanting power. Might aswell go back to the old 25mm carb eh..
markey b
13-12-2008, 15:37
just chuck the carb back on... worked ok for stu clarke ;)
I don't see the point in fitting a smaller throttle body if your wanting power. Might aswell go back to the old 25mm carb eh..
The standard is 25mm, I fitted a 55mm for the conversion, now dropping down to a 40mm, should still give a power increase over the carb and far better mpg
just chuck the carb back on... worked ok for stu clarke ;)
Shut it Butterworth:laugh:
markey b
13-12-2008, 17:25
....you know i'd have your setup, just for the noise on the limiter! lol
....you know i'd have your setup, just for the noise on the limiter! lol
If ya out 2nite mate I'll take you out in it again, now the rev limiter is up you believe what its like, when it hits the limiter at 5500rpm it pops even bigger flames:D
markey b
13-12-2008, 17:48
your on ;)
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
throttle size has nothing to do with fuel ecconomy ?? it also won't make any difference to your boost control problem unless you go so small that it becomes a choke. the only advantage of a smaller throttle will be that its responce will be a little more progressive, it won't be quite so sensitive as I bet it is now at 55mm.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
throttle size has nothing to do with fuel ecconomy ?? it also won't make any difference to your boost control problem unless you go so small that it becomes a choke. the only advantage of a smaller throttle will be that its responce will be a little more progressive, it won't be quite so sensitive as I bet it is now at 55mm.
I was never sure having the 55mm was a good idea at the start of the conversion, and yes your right Scoff, the slightest throttle launches me down the road with smoke poaring off the tyres or I stall it and look a cock
Adey aka Ewok
15-12-2008, 17:50
id say the going down the road with smoke pouring off makes you look like more of a cock than stalling it
id say the going down the road with smoke pouring off makes you look like more of a cock than stalling it
Yep I'll give u that
Penfold aka The Dealer
15-12-2008, 19:48
I was never sure having the 55mm was a good idea at the start of the conversion, and yes your right Scoff, the slightest throttle launches me down the road with smoke poaring off the tyres or I stall it and look a cock
TBH We all think you look like a cock all the time :laugh::wasntme:
Adey aka Ewok
15-12-2008, 20:00
TBH We all think you look like a cock all the time :laugh::wasntme:
:laugh:
TBH We all think you look like a cock all the time :laugh::wasntme:
I can't help it if I'm so well blesed that all you see is my cock;)
Adey aka Ewok
18-12-2008, 20:54
I can't help it if I'm so well blesed that all you see is my cock;)
no he out right called you a cock, didnt mention seeing your weener
DK DEVELOPMENTS
18-12-2008, 21:44
Pic of my old VNT which had two actuators one for vane control the other controls the waste gate would this help set up?
Very interesting, looks like its a water cooled unit aswell, how well di it work?
Since all the problems I've been having are boost control and not fueling I have been toying with the idea of an external wastegate but that looks proper cool
markey b
22-12-2008, 19:49
id say the going down the road with smoke pouring off makes you look like more of a cock than stalling it
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8zmHHbGqMDo
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8zmHHbGqMDo
Er random
Its been awhile since I've updated this thread, mainly cus my internet has been down:(
Things get worse though, right now i'm experiencing that 'I hate the C1J' moment, I blew the head gasket just before christmas (yes it was my fault) and I finally got a chance to get it all back together and running yesterday, I ran it up only to be met with the sound of a fecked bottom end:cry:
Its not like i couldn't fix it but I'm getting tired of having to do the same jobs over and over again, right now I'm giving great consideration to dropping in a clio 1.8 16v lump and whacking on a turbo
Penfold aka The Dealer
18-01-2009, 13:31
Why do that and do what with the EFI set up?
car.crash
18-01-2009, 14:06
how many headgaskets have you blown in total?
Its been awhile since I've updated this thread, mainly cus my internet has been down:(
Things get worse though, right now i'm experiencing that 'I hate the C1J' moment, I blew the head gasket just before christmas (yes it was my fault) and I finally got a chance to get it all back together and running yesterday, I ran it up only to be met with the sound of a fecked bottom end:cry:
Its not like i couldn't fix it but I'm getting tired of having to do the same jobs over and over again, right now I'm giving great consideration to dropping in a clio 1.8 16v lump and whacking on a turbo
what caused the head gasket to go then. if you say its your fault surley its not worth changing the engine plans is it.:confused:
markey b
19-01-2009, 00:17
i was actually in the vehicle when it blew... so probably my fault lol
i have a magic touch when it comes to cars lol
Mudslinger
19-01-2009, 10:36
Im guessing it was under boost when it destryoed the hg and bottom end ,why oh why were you gunning it when it wasnt mapped proper :confused:
Ive had to be pationt with mine ,what a shame you have given up on it ,im sure someone will buy the bits off you and maybe give it a go again .
almost similar to what happened with my 5 ie so close to getting it finished then it dropped a valve on the rollers while doing a power run , although it was not a mapping fault more a case of a badly built head , i still cant believe you were driving it when it wasnt set up right .
i had to make that same decision to rebuild again or scrap the project , there is still alot of times when i think i was daft cont but its starting to look worth while now ..
It was mapped up to 5000rpm on boost and had a rev limit set there, the hg let go cus of a problem with 1 injectors sticking wide open causing number 1 to run mega rich and hiding the fact the other were running abit lean, its my fault for truct the firm I bought them from and not getting checking the injectors.
Dunno why the bottom end let go yet, I'll whip the engine out and open it up on saturday and see what the damage is and try and figure out why it died.
Mudslinger
19-01-2009, 18:29
It was mapped up to 5000rpm on boost and had a rev limit set there, the hg let go cus of a problem with 1 injectors sticking wide open causing number 1 to run mega rich and hiding the fact the other were running abit lean, its my fault for truct the firm I bought them from and not getting checking the injectors.
Dunno why the bottom end let go yet, I'll whip the engine out and open it up on saturday and see what the damage is and try and figure out why it died.
what boost pressure was it seeing ? still a bit daft of you to be boosting around knowing that it wasnt set up right even with it limited , surely the mapper wouldve spotted a problem with an injector ? is it purelly down to the boost control that the limiter is set at 5k rpm?
14psi, the mappers afr were showing perfect readings but that was cus the number 1 was throwing in so much petrol it was hiding the other 3 running just lean and with a VNT doing the boosting job running lean in anyway is a bad thing.
Yeah the boost control problem is why the limiter was at 5k, it was ok up to then, after that the boost creep up very quickly.
arent vnt's mainly used on diesel cars ??
DK DEVELOPMENTS
19-01-2009, 18:51
14psi, the mappers afr were showing perfect readings but that was cus the number 1 was throwing in so much petrol it was hiding the other 3 running just lean and with a VNT doing the boosting job running lean in anyway is a bad thing.
Yeah the boost control problem is why the limiter was at 5k, it was ok up to then, after that the boost creep up very quickly.
Might be worth getting EGT sensors mounted on the exhaust manifold
Why not save yourself the headache and bin the VNT?
Dont give up on the project, a EFi C1J is well worth having!! Wouldn't bother with a 1.8 16v turbo now when you've done all the hard work on this engine!!
Matt Cole
19-01-2009, 19:22
Why not save yourself the headache and bin the VNT?
Dont give up on the project, a EFi C1J is well worth having!! Wouldn't bother with a 1.8 16v turbo now when you've done all the hard work on this engine!!
:agree: Just got too see whats achieavable when you look at what AVA have done with Mudslingers. Scrap the vnt, and go for something nice and meaty!!
i've popped a h/g on my f7p turbo n all, aint that much better! not to mention 2 clutches one turbo and a gearbox aswell lol
Matt Cole
19-01-2009, 19:48
i've popped a h/g on my f7p turbo n all, aint that much better! not to mention 2 clutches one turbo and a gearbox aswell lol
Coops, what gearbox did you blow up and whats the valver gear box like in terms of holding the power??
In theory all I need to do is replace the faulty injector, plumb in my external wastegate (waiting on my welding bloke to finish I bit of custom work) and replace the big end and main bearings and then get it mapped, which isn't alot when you think about it, its just annoying that everytime I do something to improve the car I end up having to repair something else that doesn't like it.
I know everyone keeps saying get rid of the VNT and stick with the EFI but the hell can't I have a VNT and EFI, if Porchse can do it with the 911 turbo so can I.
Just out of interest what problems have people had in the past trying to map a VNT?
Mudslinger
20-01-2009, 17:34
Just out of interest what problems have people had in the past trying to map a VNT?
thats a bit of a no brainer question is it no? its obvious its down to the boost control :)
Markey Mark (BD)
20-01-2009, 17:46
I don't think anyone has mapped a 5 with a VNT on a fuel injected C1J before, its hard enough with a carb.
markey b
20-01-2009, 18:41
I don't think anyone has mapped a 5 with a VNT on a fuel injected C1J before, its hard enough with a carb.
call me stupid, but what is so different about the compressor map on a VNT, other than spike (external wg should limit that) and the fact it spools early?!
surely the pressure it produces at a said RPM remains similar to a normal turbo, and if the MAP sensor measures the boost and fuels accordingly it shouldn't be a problem...
if i'm wrong please correct me tho, i'm willing to learn! lol
Andrew Cooke
20-01-2009, 19:01
call me stupid, but what is so different about the compressor map on a VNT, other than spike (external wg should limit that) and the fact it spools early?!
surely the pressure it produces at a said RPM remains similar to a normal turbo, and if the MAP sensor measures the boost and fuels accordingly it shouldn't be a problem...
if i'm wrong please correct me tho, i'm willing to learn! lol
it's the turbine map that causes the problem
i l k e r
20-01-2009, 19:07
wrong, as I said way back, you can't map out how much the VNT changes the VE of the engine with a MAP sensor.
what he said!
thats a bit of a no brainer question is it no? its obvious its down to the boost control :)
Well apart from that:rolleyes:
Coops, what gearbox did you blow up and whats the valver gear box like in terms of holding the power??
valver jb3 gearbox i blew, circlipped bearings so bag of ****e mate, it was a new refurbed box direct from renault, it had done 2k at low boost 217bhp and 200lb/ft when i bought the car, i did 4k on it, half of that at high boost 254bhp and 230lb/ft and it died, stripped 4th gear on autobahn just outside aachen on way to the ring, muchos disappointment
now have a jc5 williams box, rebuilt by team think as it was their spare box and its going okay atm, only done couple of k max on it tho and one pod day
valver jb3 gearbox i blew, circlipped bearings so bag of ****e mate, it was a new refurbed box direct from renault, it had done 2k at low boost 217bhp and 200lb/ft when i bought the car, i did 4k on it, half of that at high boost 254bhp and 230lb/ft and it died, stripped 4th gear on autobahn just outside aachen on way to the ring, muchos disappointment
now have a jc5 williams box, rebuilt by team think as it was their spare box and its going okay atm, only done couple of k max on it tho and one pod day
Gotta ask, whats wrong with using the R5GTT box on a valver turbo? its a proven box thats taken stupid amounts of abuse over the years from just about everyone thats ever owned an R5
It begins, SWHR Spec 2 engine build
First off, here's my spare block, its got no pistons or crank but it is intact, just needs cleaning, painting and prepping
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009151.jpg
So lets get started, a good dose of nitro mors
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009154.jpg
In no time the old paint is peeling off
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009156.jpg
About 5mins with an old screwdriver and a wire brush and its looking loads better
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009157.jpg
Another coat of nitro mors and its nearly ready
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009158.jpg
A good clean out with engine degreaser and a hose pipe and its ready for paint
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009159.jpg
Brown is the new black :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/24012009160.jpg
Nah not really thats just the red oxide primer, once thats dried I'll mask it up and give it first proper coat of paint
Gotta ask, whats wrong with using the R5GTT box on a valver turbo? its a proven box thats taken stupid amounts of abuse over the years from just about everyone thats ever owned an R5
no top mount, have to go manual steering fit r5 lower mount to hold it. no speedo. willy box is straight swap and handles it well:cool:
no top mount, have to go manual steering fit r5 lower mount to hold it. no speedo. willy box is straight swap and handles it well:cool:
Ah I see, so it just a case of it being more easy to fit
Been looking over the dead engine, I think I may have found the problem, can anyone spot it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/01022009172.jpg
Its been awhile since I've updated this thread, mainly cus my internet has been down:(
Things get worse though, right now i'm experiencing that 'I hate the C1J' moment, I blew the head gasket just before christmas (yes it was my fault) and I finally got a chance to get it all back together and running yesterday, I ran it up only to be met with the sound of a fecked bottom end:cry:
Its not like i couldn't fix it but I'm getting tired of having to do the same jobs over and over again, right now I'm giving great consideration to dropping in a clio 1.8 16v lump and whacking on a turbo
bbtuning seem to flogging those valver turbo manifolds off for cheap pennies on ebay currently.
last time i looked it was £99 each with 10 available.
might be worth going f7r route...but then with the work you have put into the c1j i would be inclicned to stay that route and iron out the problem
bbtuning seem to flogging those valver turbo manifolds off for cheap pennies on ebay currently.
last time i looked it was £99 each with 10 available.
might be worth going f7r route...but then with the work you have put into the c1j i would be inclicned to stay that route and iron out the problem
I'm gunna stick with the C1J for now but come next year should there be any major issues like this again I will sell the efi system and whack in valver lump, but for now its on with the C1J SWHR spec 2 build
bbtuning seem to flogging those valver turbo manifolds off for cheap pennies on ebay currently.
last time i looked it was £99 each with 10 available.
Link please :)
Link please :)
thats a wierd thing
as i only pointed the them out saturday night to the other half and now i cant find them
the investigation continues
Link please :)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120369702018
Right along with everythin else I'm doing I've decided to look into aerodynamics and how to improve the aeros of the R5, I'm startin with the underside, first off the front end, I'm gunna make a sump guard out of ally that'll help protect it but also direct the airflow in a cleaner way, next the rear end, I'm gunna remove the spare and its hanger and make a plate to cover the whole space from the fuel tank back the rear bumper to help keep the airflow clean, next up the front bumper, I'm trying to find a nice carbon splitter but in the mean time I've found a nice pair of carbon carnards to help kill the understeer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/canards_small.jpg
Adey aka Ewok
13-02-2009, 21:02
ull have to be going at a rate of knots into a corner for them to work well bud, id look into making the whole underside of the car flat as you can with ali sheets and then getting it low
True but they look cool and are perfect for slicing the legs of cyclists just b4 I set them on fire with the sidey lol
TNT ANDY
13-02-2009, 21:28
True but they look cool and are perfect for slicing the legs of cyclists just b4 I set them on fire with the sidey lol
Let Brewski know if you're coming around with them on, he can't afford to lose any more hieght.;)
TNT!hammond
13-02-2009, 22:43
why i orta :upyours:. Not being funny olly but aero is not really an issue is it yet? surely not , i cant see many track going 5's touch upon splitter ,aerofoils or any other form of aerodynamic enhancement?i know russell b has filled in the spare wheel void with lexan/perspex something like that anyways , im sure there are plenty more things to worry about to make it fast round corners before you need mclaren type splitters lol :)
Let Brewski know if you're coming around with them on, he can't afford to lose any more hieght.;)
Good point, his name is first on the list lol
why i orta :upyours:. Not being funny olly but aero is not really an issue is it yet? surely not , i cant see many track going 5's touch upon splitter ,aerofoils or any other form of aerodynamic enhancement?i know russell b has filled in the spare wheel void with lexan/perspex something like that anyways , im sure there are plenty more things to worry about to make it fast round corners before you need mclaren type splitters lol :)
True I could get more power from the engine or fit a cage like yours to stiffen the shell but I wanna have ago at thinking outside the box, besides I decided on slight change in direct with mine, instead of outo and out power that last for 2 maybe 3 laps of a circuit blowing up in spectacular fashion, I want somit I can rag all day long and be 100% reliable.................... ok maybe 80% lol, I not so worried if it isn't as fast as it could be in a straight line, I've already Mars over a 1/4mile and he's got 30bhp and 50ft lb over mine, wanna make it quick in other areas.
Its always annoyed me that even though its small light as the wheels in each corner that it just doesn't seem to hande aswell as it should, yeah its proberbly down to my driving.
When I went on that trackday at bedford autodrome against all those damn clio 172's, 182's and 197's I could easy bet them on the straights but get to the corners and they just kept there foot in and were gone, where as i had slow down alot to get round without ending up in a hedge.
Andrew Cooke
14-02-2009, 09:13
you need to sort the chassis before you bother with aerodynamics - springs, dampers, camber etc. (do you have any pictures of your car cornering?). You also need to look at unsprung weight - wheels brakes etc.
When it comes to lift, the PH1 bumper probably doesn't do you any favours... but as the Ewok said, wings and stuff will be what you want to tweak the handing in 100mph corners, but only once it's sorted in the slower ones.
Adey aka Ewok
14-02-2009, 10:47
you can get decent suspension for not much cash, or you can get very good suspension for alot more money, i payed what i feel is a huge a mount of money for my suspension, but after driving on track alot its easily the thing thats given me the most bang for buck, i can corner harder faster and smoother due to the sus, and the more spped you carry through the corner the faster your going onto the straights, my car is very slow compared to alot of cars i pass on track, good sus, good tyres and good brakes. mabey you could look into some better driving techniques to cure your understeer problem?
you need to sort the chassis before you bother with aerodynamics - springs, dampers, camber etc. (do you have any pictures of your car cornering?). You also need to look at unsprung weight - wheels brakes etc.
When it comes to lift, the PH1 bumper probably doesn't do you any favours... but as the Ewok said, wings and stuff will be what you want to tweak the handing in 100mph corners, but only once it's sorted in the slower ones.
I've got Avo coilovers on the front and Avo adjustable rear dampers, the engine bay has been seam welded and braced, so has the subframe, polybushes on the anti roll bar and wishbones, new ball joints, new strut top mounts, strut brace, pair of toyo R888's for trackdays so all the basics have been covered.
These are the best pics I've got of it cornering at bedford autodrome
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/LMP_MSV_REN_080516_116_16-05-200-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/LMP_MSV_REN_080516_113_16-05-200820.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/LMP_MSV_REN_080516_076_16-05-200820.jpg
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 15:30
that engine looks class how much it cost to put all tht 2gether?
that engine looks class how much it cost to put all tht 2gether?
Far too much, mostl cus I did it myself and learnt what does and doesn't work by blowing it up half a dozen times lol
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 15:49
what turbo do you have? an how did u get all the cozzy parts on it?
what turbo do you have? an how did u get all the cozzy parts on it?
Its a VNT turbo courtesy of Adam L at turbo developments, top man he is.
The cozzy fuel rail and pump were lying in a box of bits belonging to the guy who made my inlet manifold, he had to shorten the fuel to suit and adjust the factory pump bracket to fit the cozzy job, so it was easy........... for me anyway, he had no end of trouble with the rail, it kept springing leaks but its been perfect since
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 16:02
is right, i had a volvo 480 turbo engine in mine fitted it with my m8, but changed back to a r5 engine as it needed much more work. was fast though
is right, i had a volvo 480 turbo engine in mine fitted it with my m8, but changed back to a r5 engine as it needed much more work. was fast though
I've heard that, but it should so much easyer to adjust the fueling cus its efi from the factory, what you done to ya C1J lump then?
had a vnt turbo from turbo developments on my car for a few track days, until it went pop:(. need to get it totally re built including turbine shaft and compressor wheel. as stated before the slender shaft isnt exactly robust and dont know if i should bother with it again. like the idea of a seperate waste gate though.
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 16:11
i bought the engine fom a lad it had new pistons an tht, wacked a group a head gasket on, bigger turbo, messed round with the carb an tht, got hold of a gt tuning intercooler the cybercool 1, the lad who i bought the engine off also said bb tuning messed ound with the head, it runs sweet best engine ive had, running it on 20 psi like goes like mad even with 17s on
:disagree:
i bought the engine fom a lad it had new pistons an tht, wacked a group a head gasket on, bigger turbo, messed round with the carb an tht, got hold of a gt tuning intercooler the cybercool 1, the lad who i bought the engine off also said bb tuning messed ound with the head, it runs sweet best engine ive had, running it on 20 psi like goes like mad even with 17s on
Have you ever had it dyno'd to see what power its making?
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 17:02
no i neet 2 get it rr soon if its 160 170 bhp ill be made up
no i neet 2 get it rr soon if its 160 170 bhp ill be made up
What size is ya turbo?
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 17:05
i think a stage 2 with a bigger turbo elbow, its only slightly bigger than a t2 so maybe better internals, it holds 20 psi well though
i think a stage 2 with a bigger turbo elbow, its only slightly bigger than a t2 so maybe better internals, it holds 20 psi well though
Well I got 150bhp at 17psi with my T2 so I recon you could expect anythin from 160bhp upto 175ish, porviding your setup is good of course
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 17:10
i think the only thing stopping it wil be the fueling, i have a uprated fuel pump but i aint sure if the petrol geting to the engine is too little, so might get that looked at so its perfect, but theres no problems so maybe its ok. i once had it boostin 30psi on i race see wot wud happen an it was a rocket haha
i think the only thing stopping it wil be the fueling, i have a uprated fuel pump but i aint sure if the petrol geting to the engine is too little, so might get that looked at so its perfect, but theres no problems so maybe its ok. i once had it boostin 30psi on i race see wot wud happen an it was a rocket haha
Yeah don't go winding upto 30psi without adjusting the carb or it will go bang.
When it goes on the dyno make sure the block running the dyno sticks an O2 sensor up ya exhaust and keeps an eye on the fueling
d110rkjste
14-02-2009, 17:17
nar 20 is well enuf til i get forge pistons, but it will be workin fine when i fix my starter so gonna jus use this yr 2 drive it an leave it alone i think.
nar 20 is well enuf til i get forge pistons, but it will be workin fine when i fix my starter so gonna jus use this yr 2 drive it an leave it alone i think.
you dont need forged pistons to run more than 20psi
you dont need forged pistons to run more than 20psi
He's right, its more important to get your fueling spot on than it is 2 throw money at parts that tunners tell you, you need
markey b
15-02-2009, 19:39
27psi and no forged pistons, steel liners, or posh cam for that matter ....
I'm not sure why people worry about boost, it has no direct relation to how much pressure is in the cylinder. You can have a more powerfull car at only 20psi of boost that has more cylinder pressure.
Markey Mark (BD)
15-02-2009, 19:45
I'm not sure why people worry about boost, it has no direct relation to how much pressure is in the cylinder. You can have a more powerfull car at only 20psi of boost that has more cylinder pressure.
:agree:
d110rkjste
15-02-2009, 20:05
i agree it does depend on the setup of the car but havin them can only help the car when it gets ragged round
[quote=d110rkjste;45024]i agree it does depend on the setup of the car but havin them can only help the car when it gets ragged round[/quote
:(
i agree it does depend on the setup of the car but havin them can only help the car when it gets ragged round
Well, no mate, don't believe the hype. There's alot of experience on here all telling you to save your money ;) It's by far much more important to have the car setup properly. A poor tune will melt forged pistons just as quickly as standard ones.
Well, no mate, don't believe the hype. There's alot of experience on here all telling you to save your money ;) It's by far much more important to have the car setup properly. A poor tune will melt forged pistons just as quickly as standard ones.
Listern to this man, he knows his stuff, he's like the kung fu master of tunning:niceone:
had a vnt turbo from turbo developments on my car for a few track days, until it went pop:(. need to get it totally re built including turbine shaft and compressor wheel. as stated before the slender shaft isnt exactly robust and dont know if i should bother with it again. like the idea of a seperate waste gate though.
It'd probably be an idea to see why the turbo blew, rather than jumping onto something else that may well have the same fate...
It'd probably be an idea to see why the turbo blew, rather than jumping onto something else that may well have the same fate...
the bearing is completely shot and the turbine shaft has big groves were its over heated. The snap ring and sealing ring have melted completely:scared:. also the compressor wheel has contacted the housing and is also fecked. the inline filter looks nice and clear but i want to fit another oil pressure guage as the 1 on the car is a bit suspect. I think thats where the problem may lie. another thought is as it went on national day at mallory just after the long sweeping bend oil has moved away from the pickup and the turbo has been starved.
will have to arrange a day to bring it over to you for a price on its repair:)
the bearing is completely shot and the turbine shaft has big groves were its over heated. The snap ring and sealing ring have melted completely:scared:. also the compressor wheel has contacted the housing and is also fecked. the inline filter looks nice and clear but i want to fit another oil pressure guage as the 1 on the car is a bit suspect. I think thats where the problem may lie. another thought is as it went on national day at mallory just after the long sweeping bend oil has moved away from the pickup and the turbo has been starved.
will have to arrange a day to bring it over to you for a price on its repair:)
Defo sounds like an oil problem, it didn't run low on oil did it?
No it was always at the maximum level but got to be some problem there as you say. As a standard turbo also went pop 3 track days later (although i was pushing it at 17-18psi):innocent:
No it was always at the maximum level but got to be some problem there as you say. As a standard turbo also went pop 3 track days later (although i was pushing it at 17-18psi):innocent:
Defo get a decent oil pressure gauge plumbed in, sounds like your not gettin enough oil pressure
Has the engine been rebuilt at any point?
Defo get a decent oil pressure gauge plumbed in, sounds like your not gettin enough oil pressure
Has the engine been rebuilt at any point?
yes it was re built about a year ago but didnt get a new oil pump. droped the sump about a month ago to cure an oil leak and while i was doing it i removed a main cap to check the bearings, as i thought they may be prematurely failing causing a loss of pressure but they are good as new. will fit a new pressure guage next and see what the readings are.
yes it was re built about a year ago but didnt get a new oil pump. droped the sump about a month ago to cure an oil leak and while i was doing it i removed a main cap to check the bearings, as i thought they may be prematurely failing causing a loss of pressure but they are good as new. will fit a new pressure guage next and see what the readings are.
Who built it if ya don't mind asking?
check your getting 45 psi or more at 3500 revs get a few magnets on the bottom of that sump also.
check your getting 45 psi or more at 3500 revs get a few magnets on the bottom of that sump also.
^ good advice
^ good advice
built the engine myself, apart from having the pistons attached to the con rods by an engineering company (didnt fancy mucking them up)will check the pressure is holding at 45psi as soon as i can get some time on it will try a couple of magnets on the sump too and see what turns up.
built the engine myself, apart from having the pistons attached to the con rods by an engineering company (didnt fancy mucking them up)will check the pressure is holding at 45psi as soon as i can get some time on it will try a couple of magnets on the sump too and see what turns up.
I remember seeing that @ Nat day wasn't a pretty sight seeing that VNT in the condition it was 20 mins later you were back on track running a T2:D
markey b
17-02-2009, 19:38
same here, i was parked infront of it, red one wasn't it? i remember the smoke lol
Markey Mark (BD)
17-02-2009, 20:11
I was behind it when it went on the track, remember seeing red 5 then it disappeared under a big cloud of smoke:)
markey b
17-02-2009, 20:54
must have been like following oli testing the EF-aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
must have been like following oli testing the EF-aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Hey I had no problems at national day
markey b
18-02-2009, 00:08
i'm not suprised with a 4k limiter... i was on about the 'last nite of the 5 to this day'... lol
I remember seeing that @ Nat day wasn't a pretty sight seeing that VNT in the condition it was 20 mins later you were back on track running a T2:D
That was me m8:laugh: couldnt stand the thought of missing any track time so bought the t2 off a traider and wacked it on with the help of bigdanc.cant let small problems stop the fun:burnrubber:
Engine update
Got my spare crank blanaced, reground and some bearings ground to suit, finished painting the block and some of the bits and pieces that bolt to it, so I've started putting it together, gotta get some fresh piston rings then I can finish it and get sorting other things :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/22022009211.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/22022009212.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/22022009213.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/22022009214.jpg
Right, since I started rebuilding my engine I've decided to alter a few bits and do a few things that I have on previous builds, first off I've replaced all the normal bolts that hold all the brackets on the block
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Newbolts.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Newbolts2.jpg
And to go with the new colour scheme I got my spare rocker cover and stripped all the paint off and angle grinded the unused brackets and got going with the red oxide primer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Rocker3.jpg
A quick coat of white primer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Rocker.jpg
Now I have 1 problem, my original plan was to paint the rocker black with Renault airbrushed in red on the side but now I'm wondering what it'll look like in red all over
Update time, first off things have gone a little tits up, namely my pistons aren't exactly round anymore, oh well, good job I've got a new set left from a liner set I bought a year ago.
Next the rocker cover, I've changed the plan a little, the grouve in the top has now been smooth out and I've stuck on a badge and painted it in, I think I may take it off and get a proper Renault badge though, not sure yet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/NewRocker.jpg
To go with the new colour of the block and rocker cover the rest of the ancilieries need attention to fit in with the new scheme, I spotted this ad for sale on ebay from china awhile back but I wasn't sure about the quality cus they were so cheap but a few people on here have bought sets and the've been spot on, as good as the major branded versions so what the hell its only 168quid compared to the 350quid for the branded stuff.
Overnight parts from Shanghi
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Box.jpg
A full set of coolant and breather silicone hoses in lovely black :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Hoses.jpg
And the typical first thing done with new trumpet shaped hoses
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Trumpet.jpg
I've also decided to take advantage of the engine being out to replace the old brake master cylinder and brake lines and hoses, a new cyclinder is 40quid from GSF, Lovely :), steel braid hoses, 25quid off ebay, sorted, the look on the BMW drivers face when I out brake him, Priceless :D
Defo ditch the badge on the rocker matey looks ****e, apart from that am liking the rest. Keep up the hard work:agree:
Defo ditch the badge on the rocker matey looks ****e, apart from that am liking the rest. Keep up the hard work:agree:
I'm kinder thinkin that aswell but I may get the Renault lettering and put that on there in a Gordini stylee
Looking good Oli, agree with the badge though....its gotta go !! :D
Ok the turbo badge is going
markey b
18-03-2009, 00:25
chrome rocker cover or leave it rusty lol
LukeRobbo
18-03-2009, 01:54
Good work.I think the badge looks ok but i prefer chrome rockers.
Chrome is just somit else to keep clean and it doesn't make you go any faster
Chrome is just somit else to keep clean and it doesn't make you go any faster
Neither does R E N A U L T
lol. Ditch that idea mate.
markey b
18-03-2009, 18:39
Neither does R E N A U L T
lol. Ditch that idea mate.
priceless :)
it was goin real good then you spring the badge on the
rocker on us all.....eewwwwwwwwww!!!!!!
:p
Today I spent a few hours gettin on with sorting the brakes, I've already fitted the new master cyclinder ans stripped the copper lines out of the front and fitted the steel braided lines on the front, next I moved to the back and removed the old copper lines and replaced them, amazingly out of all the unions on this 23 year old car only 1 was screwed.
Fitting the rear braided lines ws easy and the new copper lines look the tits, next would've been the lines from the master cyclinder to the bias valve but when I started looking a them they were in mint condition so i left them alone.
My next result was the handbrake cable, i though it would need replacing but it turns out the adjuster was wound right out, so a few mins winding it in and I have a decent handbrake:)
With the engine waiting on a new set of pistons and the front brakes waiting for the garantee work to be finished I've started doing some other jobs I've been putting off, the main one being the engine bay loom.
My old one is now 23 years old and has had bits chooped out, melted wires, knackered connectors so its time to replace it but I sure as hell wasn't gunna pay K-tec 138quid they want for there one, so out came me crimp tray and reels of auto wire and I got busy making my own, gotta get some split loom to cover it and a new water proof plug for the end but all is good, cost me about 25quid to make and its custom to suit my engine as I no longer have the factory oil pressure gauge and I have a switch on the dash for the rad fan instead of thermostat in the rad.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Newloom2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/Newloom.jpg
Due to all the death threats and the warning that if it wasn't removed I'd be banned from the RTOC for life the turbo badge has gone from the rocker cover, my apologize to the RTOC and everyone who owns or has every owned an R5GTT
Due to all the death threats and the warning that if it wasn't removed I'd be banned from the RTOC for life the turbo badge has gone from the rocker cover, my apologize to the RTOC and everyone who owns or has every owned an R5GTT
that just makes you look stupid mate :( do what YOU want to do to YOUR car!
that just makes you look stupid mate :( do what YOU want to do to YOUR car!
I wasn't sure about it before anyone had said anything
With this new build I intend to take my time and get everything done right first time instead of bodging it like I have in the past, take this next part for instance, when I did the EFI conversion I just left the map sensor and boost control valve sat behind the bulk in amoungst a jubble of wiring from the ECU, this time I've taken a off cut of carbon from my door cards and made a plate for them to sit on on the front face of the bulk head for all to see and to allow for easy acess
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/MAP-BOOSTCV.jpg
With CGB being a pain and not sending out my pistons even though I've paid for them:mad:
I had to change my plan, fortunatly JP came to the rescuse with thr missing piston, top man thanks :agree:
I dropped my rods and the new pistons off at my local machine shop and with luck they'kk be ready for tomorrow night and then I can finally finish the bottom end and get it and the gearbox back in the car and get on with putting it back together
Right I have me pistons back and I'm gunna put them in the block 2day to finish the the bottom end.
Due to GSF not having any GTT steering racks in stock I've had to chuck the old rack back in for the time being but heres the wierd bit, its still heavy but the play in it has gone, sometimes these french cars are just plain strange.
With the garantee work in the engine bay complete I've been able to make up the last copper brake line, refill and bleed the system, took ages and help form James Butterworth (brother of MarkyB) and I now have brakes that feel how brakes should and not what they were like when I got the car.
My plan was to have the old girl up and running by the 26 april ready for a local classic car show but it looks like I may have to get it towed there, that is unless I can get a couple more days off between now and then.
Right I've finally got off me arse and got the bottom end finshed, fitted the flywheel and clutch and mated it to the gearbox reday to go back in the car, with any luck I'll have that done before the end of the week and then I can get on with plubing everything back in again, still waiting on my tubular manifold though, hope its finished soon or it could hold things up
that just makes you look stupid mate :( do what YOU want to do to YOUR car!
Taking people's advice on this site is stupid?
The reason the badge faux pas was pointed out was as it was in contradiction to the chrome rocker cover assertion, not because either mod sits on some list of RTOC-banned smeg-ups (Red Dwarf reference there).
markey b
14-04-2009, 01:02
not because either mod sits on some list of RTOC-banned smeg-ups (Red Dwarf reference there).
but it did look dog**** tho.... lol :cooter:
but it did look dog**** tho.... lol :cooter:
I couldn't possibly comment :wasntme:
I couldn't possibly comment :wasntme:
Yes all right it wasn't my best idea:rolleyes:
markey b
14-04-2009, 21:21
thursday is the day oliver!!
thursday is the day oliver!!
yep, hope it all goes well
Its in at last, took 45mins but the bottom end and gearbox are in the car, need some new bolts for the engine mounts and the box needs a clean up but its startin to look good again, tomorrow I'm spending about 5 hours refitting the drive shafts, cleaning the box, fitting the rad, header ttank, degassing tak, starter, rewrapping the down pipe, fitting the wiring loom, fitting the carbon plate mounting the map sensor and boost control solenoid and loads of other bits, should have some good progress pics by saturday night :)
Finally got some pics uploaded
The bottom end and gearbox went in thursday night with my spare head to hold everything in place
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/enginein.jpg
Spent saturday morning fitting the drive shafts, rewrapping the down pipe, fitting the wiring loom, fitting some of the coolant hoses and offering up the rad and the other hoses
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/startedplumbing.jpg
Did abit of arty farty and painted the end plate for the head in red to match the block
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/endplate.jpg
Well everything was going to plan saturday, I got everything reconnected, replumbed and filled ready to give the new engine its first crank, but thats where it all went wrong, because I've made a new CrankPositionSensor bracket the sensor is in a different place to where it was before and now I just can't get my head round setting the ecu to account for its new position.
All I need to do is get some beers in me and read the manual :(
Although it wasn't running the 5 did make it to its first show of 2009 thanks to Jez at Carrera
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/COTG.jpg
Remember the blue boost hoses are gunna be replaced with black ones when they turn up and there's still a tubular manifold and external wastegate to go in but here's the new look to the bay
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/rocker4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/bay2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/bay3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/bay.jpg
All the shiney bits need a good clean and I' gotta redo the carbon mount for the map sensor and boost control valve but its looking good again :)
markey b
02-05-2009, 09:37
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/COTG.jpg
i love this pic!! just need jp's and carters and its the suffolk posse!! lol
i love this pic!! just need jp's and carters and its the suffolk posse!! lol
and Handy Andy
JP Racing
02-05-2009, 13:29
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Yes but handy andy is not from suffolk :) so it's not allowed lol:coffee:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Yes but handy andy is not from suffolk :) so it's not allowed lol:coffee:
Good point, the vile norfolk boy shall not be allowed lol
renault5gtboi
02-05-2009, 17:39
i love this pic!! just need jp's and carters and its the suffolk posse!! lol
ime sure H335 HRK would look good in that pic also :cooter:
It would but u ain't in suffolk, sufolk gtt's only :wasntme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgCB38WSdNE
markey b
05-05-2009, 19:45
here ya go alex, HRK in da house...
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/mark_wsmcuk/redline125.jpg
here ya go alex, HRK in da house...
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/mark_wsmcuk/redline125.jpg
Ah good times:D
pascal-GT
08-05-2009, 10:29
very nice car's!!!!:eek::cool:
I have just bought a sneaky little mod for the Toaster, been thinkin about 1 of these for ages, I dunno about anyone else but when I come home at 1 in the morning my loud exhaust is waking the neighbours and getting me in trouble so I've just ordered 1 of these so I can make the Toaster alittle more stealth like when comin home late or so it can pass any noise tests at trackdays or just to remove a reason for the plod to pull me over
http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5326 (http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5326)
http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5326 (http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5326)
:scared:
markey b
11-05-2009, 01:02
watch out for the style police now lol
you have done a great job there;) thats one nice car
I reset all the valve clearences, changed the oil and filter, tweaked the timing and bloody hell what difference, when the new engine started it sounded like crap, tapping, banging and knocking all over the place, now its its perfectly quite and smooth, well apart from the sidey of course :D
I've put some plugs in the 5 thinkin that would be the cause of the missfire, nope that would be the HT lead that wasn't on properly:sad2:
It now revs nice and smooth, just got some ideling issues but that'll be fixed with abit of mapping, I hope.
Thanks to Handy Andy I now have a K-tec tubular manifold which is good cus I can now get the wastegate take off done but it somehow doesn't feel right because the only reason I got it is because he's stripping his ph1 and selling off the parts, end of an era with that car, I bloody loved it, sad to see it end its life in bits:cry:
Tiny Tim
18-05-2009, 18:58
I've put some plugs in the 5 thinkin that would be the cause of the missfire, nope that would be the HT lead that wasn't on properly:sad2:
You spleen :rolleyes: :laugh:
You spleen :rolleyes: :laugh:
Don't say it:rolleyes:
For the first time this year, C122LHK has seen positive boost baby yeah :D
Thanks to steller effot by my mate Alex, my R5 now has an external wastegate, what we thought would be a 2 hour job turned into an 7 hour job but it was worth it in the end.
The first major hurdle was the fact the K-tec down pipe wouldn't clear the K-tec tubular manifold, so Alex got busy with the tig welder and added an extra inch onto the turbo elbow, then I heat wrapped it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/ewg.jpg
Then we had a choise of were to come off the collector for the WG, we decided the easyest route would be under the turbo.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/ewg2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/ewg3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/ewg4.jpg
The screamer comes out just next to the chassis rail, I'll take some pics tomorrow
Right now the external wastegate is plumbed in I can get on with sorting other things out, first things first, the drive home after getting the wg fitted showed up a few issues
1. the brakes have god knows how much air in em but when they bite my head goes through the windscreen, abit of adjustment needed there.
2. while cruiseing its ok but when pulling away or accellrating there's a bad knocking sound, I thought it was the down pipe catching the drive shaft but its got at least an inch gap between them, I've got a feeling I fitted 1 of the new engine mounts wrong so engine is tipping back alot further than it should.
3. the brakes seem to be grinding on something, weather its a stone or somit caught between the pad and disc I don't know.
4. the throttle position sensor is way out and needs resetting.
5. the timing needs setting up properly with a timing light.
6. at idle its chucking loads of unburnt petrol out the exhaust, the fuel map defo needs adjustment till it gets properly mapped next month.
Sorted the grinding brakes, we won't mention that 1 of the pads was in back to front:scared:
Resetted the throttle position sensor and there's a massive improvement in drive abilaty.
With a prod from MarkyB the HT lead order was reversed and made no end of difference, looks like it had been running on the wasted spark:scared:
Still can't to the bottom of this vibration/knocking problem though, any ideas would be helpfull
With a prod from MarkyB the HT lead order was reversed and made no end of difference, looks like it had been running on the wasted spark:scared:
Cant see that making any difference?
Sounds like you should get it mapped before you mess on with it too much.
Cant see that making any difference?
Sounds like you should get it mapped before you mess on with it too much.
I didn't think it would either but it ran so much better straight away, don't ask me why cus I ain't a clue
Well I've made some progress but also caused some issues
1. while the 5 was off the road I replaced the master cyclinder, the copper lines and the flexi hoses but it looks like when I fitted the master cyclinder I punchered the servo and its fooked :cry:
2. I've removed both front hubs to check the driveshafts to see if they are the cause of the vibration and found 1 wheel bearing slighty worn and the other in technical terms "completely ****ered" so time for 2 new bearings :cry:
3. While the driveshafts look and feel ok I wanna pull bake the cv boots to give them a proper check to see if I'm missing something but that can wait till I've done the bearings cus 1 of those could well be the problem
Right I've done my bearings and changed the driver side driveshaft and its reduced the noise alot, the bearings defo needed anyway.
The only thing left is the passenger side driveshaft but my spare is no good cus on the inner joint the roller that retains the pins has made a bid for freedom, is there anyway of fixing this or the shaft usless?
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