Fluffy is getting on my tits

[TNT ANDY]

Just shortened my downpipe by an inch re-fitted and went out for a test drive over some speed humps - great - clears them no problem. Then she cuts out and won't start again FFS.

I think the ecu might be playing up, and as such I can't see how I'm going to get her to national day next week. I must be doing something wrong:confused: Last year I set off and broke down half way there and was rescued by JP.

Pissed off don't even come close.

JP's offered his ECU (adaptronic) to prove that it is the ecu which is great, but if it does need looking at, there is very little chance I can get it over to Scoff (if he can do anything with it????) and get it back on ol Fluff and get to the 10th year anniversary.

Anyone with any miracles - please step up now.

[Haz]

its not common for the ecu's to be at fault, suppose you could try re flashing the map over, and trying the other ecu first to confirm it is that and if so a speedy parcel to scoff.
anything knocked about while fitting the downpipe, earths etc?
is the ecu secured properly? wondering if the speed humps are a pointer to something loose?

[TNT ANDY]

its not common for the ecu's to be at fault, suppose you could try re flashing the map over, and trying the other ecu first to confirm it is that and if so a speedy parcel to scoff.
anything knocked about while fitting the downpipe, earths etc?
is the ecu secured properly? wondering if the speed humps are a pointer to something loose?

Hi Haz - I know what you mean, I've not heard of an ECU going tits up at all, so I'm kind of open minded on this. I've tried loading an older version of my map, I'm waiting for Scoff to send me a copy of my ECU file so that I can have another go. I'll have a look tomorrow at cables etc, but tbh - there is very little going that way.

I await JP if he can help. I've got feelers out on Adaptronics forum as the ECU's led's are acting strange.

[Haz]

well if scoff's on the case then nothing much i can offer lol. i'm led to beleive some things can upset the ecu like low battery turnin ecu off as it cranks, and in doin so is like turning a computer on, then off before it loads up, then again and again with each crank so can end up corrupting the file. obviously not the fault here but they can do strange things. i'm sure that the random led's can be a processor fault. have you the software to check that the ecu is still talking to the laptop while waiting on the file?

[TNT ANDY]

well if scoff's on the case then nothing much i can offer lol. i'm led to beleive some things can upset the ecu like low battery turnin ecu off as it cranks, and in doin so is like turning a computer on, then off before it loads up, then again and again with each crank so can end up corrupting the file. obviously not the fault here but they can do strange things. i'm sure that the random led's can be a processor fault. have you the software to check that the ecu is still talking to the laptop while waiting on the file?

Yup - it's talking alright, Ive been looking for all sorts through the laptop and I've had the jump leads on to rule out low voltage, as it did sound like it was dropping out at one point. Grrrrr - why this week?

[Logg]

That's no good Andy. :cry:

Does the car turn over?
Injector getting 12v?
Timing wheel not slipped?
Coil pack getting 12v and given spark?
Fuel pump still working?
New manifold and downpipe combo not melted your starter wireing?

[TNT ANDY]

Does the car turn over? - Yup
Injector getting 12v? - yup
Timing wheel not slipped? - Not checked - will check
Coil pack getting 12v and given spark? - no
Fuel pump still working? - yes
New manifold and downpipe combo not melted your starter wireing?[/QUOTE] - no

:confused:

[Os8472]

Check your ecu earth, if it's loose or iffy it could mess everything up

[Logg]

Do the Injectors click when you fire them in test mode?

Is there a way of checking the coil pack is getting a signal from the ecu telling it to fire while cranking? Anyone local to you with the same coil pack you could try?

[TNT ANDY]

Check your ecu earth, if it's loose or iffy it could mess everything up

Good earth:agree:

They are all on 1 bolt

[TNT ANDY]

Do the Injectors click when you fire them in test mode?

Is there a way of checking the coil pack is getting a signal from the ecu telling it to fire while cranking? Anyone local to you with the same coil pack you could try?

No the injectors don't click in test mode, it all goes a bit funny when I try to do that - the fuel pump runs then no clicks, and it keeps doing this over and over and freezes, the only way to stop it is to turn the ignition off.

The chap from the RAC checked the feeds / earth to the coil and said everything was fine apart from any signals of any description coming from the ecu. The trigger wheel pick-up is sending voltage to the ECU but nothing is coming out.

I'm a bit perplexed.

I've checked the trigger wheel and that's ok. When piston 1 is at TDC, the gap is about 90 deg past tdc on the trigger.

[Logg]

That's don't sound good at all. :scratch: the issue must be in the ecu or the wiring then. :(

I've a carb for sale of that's any help. :scared:

[TNT ANDY]

LOL - I've got a box of em here, and I keep looking at them:laugh:

[Os8472]

LOL - I've got a box of em here, and I keep looking at them:laugh:

Lol

F7p ftw :agree:

[Ashy]

crank sensor? Does the Adaptronic have a diagnostic screen so you can review sensor errors?

[TNT ANDY]

crank sensor? Does the Adaptronic have a diagnostic screen so you can review sensor errors?

I've only got a few and yes I can see them and they look to be doing what they are supposed to.

[Os8472]

Has Ross got a coil pack you can use to test?

[Ashy]

I've only got a few and yes I can see them and they look to be doing what they are supposed to.

A few CPS errors? might be worth resetting the log then taking it for a run. if it clocks the errors as it cuts out or misses you might be onto something?

[TNT ANDY]

A few CPS errors? might be worth resetting the log then taking it for a run. if it clocks the errors as it cuts out or misses you might be onto something?

:laugh: I can't get it to run, Scoff is helping me also via e-mail and I've just checked my voltage at the ecu whilst cranking and I'm only getting 9.8v. Time to start poking around there.

[Os8472]

:laugh: I can't get it to run, Scoff is helping me also via e-mail and I've just checked my voltage at the ecu whilst cranking and I'm only getting 9.8v. Time to start poking around there.

That's abit odd, with nothing else on other than the ignition you should have 12v. I know you said the earth was tight but just to be on the safe side run a temp earth and live and see what happens

[Dave Reed]

:laugh: I can't get it to run, Scoff is helping me also via e-mail and I've just checked my voltage at the ecu whilst cranking and I'm only getting 9.8v. Time to start poking around there.

These ecu'a don't like low voltage.. It gave me loads of problems a couple of months ago! If the lights on the ecu are dim and all coming on that's where the problem will lay

[TNT ANDY]

That's abit odd, with nothing else on other than the ignition you should have 12v. I know you said the earth was tight but just to be on the safe side run a temp earth and live and see what happens

Just done that - 10.3v whilst cranking now still no gogo.
:cry:

[Dave Reed]

I would assume either your battery is finished or your starter.. Mind what sort of size cable you using for your temp cable? And type

[Scoff]

Andy its unlikely to be the ECU itself. 10.3v is borderline for the ECU to run without resetting. What voltage do you see across the battery when cranking ? If that's considerably higher than 10.3v then there is some loss in your ignition wiring. You could try taking the ECU live straight from the battery for a test start. If the battery is dropping to 10.3v then battery or starter as mentioned.

Did you remember to upgrade your wari version like I said ? If you're using an old version of software with your now updated firmware then maybe you have corrupted the map. You need wari V10 at least. I can email the map file but it is at the workshop right now. I can send it tonight if that helps. ?

[TNT ANDY]

These ecu'a don't like low voltage.. It gave me loads of problems a couple of months ago! If the lights on the ecu are dim and all coming on that's where the problem will lay

Cheers Dave - I can't get it to go with another car hooked up and running. At my battery the voltage drops to just below 12v when cranking so that's ok.

:confused::confused::confused:Totally!

[TNT ANDY]

Andy its unlikely to be the ECU itself. 10.3v is borderline for the ECU to run without resetting. What voltage do you see across the battery when cranking ? If that's considerably higher than 10.3v then there is some loss in your ignition wiring. You could try taking the ECU live straight from the battery for a test start. If the battery is dropping to 10.3v then battery or starter as mentioned.

Did you remember to upgrade your wari version like I said ? If you're using an old version of software with your now updated firmware then maybe you have corrupted the map. You need wari V10 at least. I can email the map file but it is at the workshop right now. I can send it tonight if that helps. ?

Hi Chris - no I didn't upgrade to V10 - I'll do that now and that would be great if you could send the ecu file over later. Don't make a special journey - just next time your in the workshop. Thanks

Across the battery, I'm seeing 11.9 whilst cranking - I'm losing a bit through the wiring, but I did connect directly from the battery to no avail.

Andy

BTW - Turbo Teds car :agree:

[TNT ANDY]

I would assume either your battery is finished or your starter.. Mind what sort of size cable you using for your temp cable? And type

I'm using jump leads from the battery to the ecu area, and jumping from them with a pair of 300mm .75mm jumper leads.

I think the starter and battery are fine as I'm still getting 11.9v when cranking at the battery terminals

[JP Racing]

I still have one of your maps too if it helps think it's an older one but let me know if you need it :) also I'm out today but if you can wait till tomorrow I could up load that map to my ecu and be at yours early to try my ecu to rule it out :) if it's faultily I need to pop to the post office tomorrow so could get it away in the morning for you. What time do you start work as I could be too you for 6 if needed too :) also if it don't go you will defo know it's something else :) and we also have loads of time to sort it out before national day we just need a day or 2 ;) :coffee:

[TNT ANDY]

I still have one of your maps too if it helps think it's an older one but let me know if you need it :) also I'm out today but if you can wait till tomorrow I could up load that map to my ecu and be at yours early to try my ecu to rule it out :) if it's faultily I need to pop to the post office tomorrow so could get it away in the morning for you. What time do you start work as I could be too you for 6 if needed too :) also if it don't go you will defo know it's something else :) and we also have loads of time to sort it out before national day we just need a day or 2 ;) :coffee:

Hi JP - things could get complicated now for both of us. I have V10 Firmware on my ecu, I now have Wari 10 on my Laptop. What do you have on your ecu and laptop? If it's 10, great. if not then we may be introducing problems for you which we don't wan't. there may be a way round this to test it out, but I'm not aware of one.

[JP Racing]

I have v10 firmware too so no issues there and think I have the latest version of wari too ;)

[TNT ANDY]

I have v10 firmware too so no issues there and think I have the latest version of wari too ;)

phew! - I think after scoff sends me my file and I upload it, it may be worth trying out your ecu.

[JP Racing]

Once you have the file just email it to me and I will upload it :)

[TNT ANDY]

:agree:
Once you have the file just email it to me and I will upload it :)

[Dave Reed]

Cheers Dave - I can't get it to go with another car hooked up and running. At my battery the voltage drops to just below 12v when cranking so that's ok.

:confused::confused::confused:Totally!

Can you take the batt of the other car just to test? What the lights on the ecu doing when your cranking?

[TNT ANDY]

Can you take the batt of the other car just to test? What the lights on the ecu doing when your cranking?

I can take the battery off the other car if need be, the lights on the ecu where flashing brightly in no particular order. Once stopped, 1 or 2 would remain brightly lit, but again there is no pattern.

still confused.:confused:

[TNT ANDY]

That's all very well - but where do I stick the flux capacitor?
:coffee:

To be frank - I bet the answer is actually in there, and I'm just too dumb to sort it out!
:sad:

[JP Racing]

Hmmmm the man speaks perfect sense so I think I will try what he said ;)

[Scoff]

I can take the battery off the other car if need be, the lights on the ecu where flashing brightly in no particular order. Once stopped, 1 or 2 would remain brightly lit, but again there is no pattern.

still confused.:confused:

That is the ecu resetting because of low volts andy. Did you manage to test cranking with 11.9v on the ECU ? You jumpered live and earth didn't you ? Just live won't show up a poor earth, incase it's that.

I came home for some lunch after a long day with a problematic car, I need to go back and do another couple of hours, I'll try to remember to bring your file home.

[TNT ANDY]

That is the ecu resetting because of low volts andy. Did you manage to test cranking with 11.9v on the ECU ? You jumpered live and earth didn't you ? Just live won't show up a poor earth, incase it's that.

I came home for some lunch after a long day with a problematic car, I need to go back and do another couple of hours, I'll try to remember to bring your file home.

Hi Chris - I've cranked it over this morning, the ecu did not re-set this morning but still no start. If you can get the file over before 6 today that would be great as JP can get over with his ECU and swap over if the ecu file doesn't sort it out.

[Big Steve - Raider]

Sounds to me like you need more fuel.... Liberally spread over the engine & the rest of the car... Then a match to finish :laugh: :wasntme:

Hope you get it sorted mate!! ;)

[Scoff]

Are you seeing RPM in the F2 window when cranking ? And does the other data stay live when cranking (watch battery voltage on F2 window) or does it disapear as if you unplugged the ECU ?)

I emailed the ECU file just now :)

[JP Racing]

As far as i know scoff Andy had no rpm showing in the live window and also the injectors didn't work while being tested :/

[robx1r]

can i ask something very stupid and highly unlikely, by chance could all the impacts from speedramps have jolted something loose in the ecu itself? :cartman::rolleyes:

[JP Racing]

Hmmm mm it's a strange one but fluffy is running again :) not sure if the problem is sorted or just hidden again :scared: only time will tell :)

[Mr Raider]

Ahh glad to hear it! hopefully she's sorted and will be good to go for the weekend :)

[JP Racing]

Well andy tidied a few cables up and re loaded the map and gave the ecu it's own power source and it was running put it back to how it was and it ran fine still :) so not really sure what the cause was so hopefully a few gentle laps near andys is needed to test it out :)

[TNT ANDY]

A massive thanks to Scoff and JP and also the lads over in Oz (adaptronic) , I don't think I've seen the last of these gremlins, but I think I may have found 1 or 2 weak spots which I will be sorting out over the next few days.

JP popping over was invaluable to better understand some of the original wiring as was the info fom both Scoff and Adaptronic.

Tried again this morning without issue. Brilliant - I'll be replacing a few relays and go from there.

Happy days.......sort of.
:crap:

[Dave Reed]

Well done mate, glad you got her up and running again.. It's times like this when you wish you still had the carb and dissy in place lol.

[TNT ANDY]

Well done mate, glad you got her up and running again.. It's times like this when you wish you still had the carb and dissy in place lol.

Cheers Dave - I'll be getting a few local miles on her b4 Nat day.

[TNT ANDY]

Are you seeing RPM in the F2 window when cranking ? And does the other data stay live when cranking (watch battery voltage on F2 window) or does it disapear as if you unplugged the ECU ?)

I emailed the ECU file just now :)

To go back a few steps - and I can't remember if I let you know this via e-mail or not, but the sometimes it stayed connected, sometimes it didn't , but when it did, the F2 window showed RPM.

[TNT ANDY]

Right - got out for a few hard miles with Ol' Fluffy last night - went like a dream, didn't miss a beat and I'm pretty confident I've seen the last of the silly gremlins I've been experiencing. Just needs a bit of a clean up, pack up and away we go. Can't wait for tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions - collectively - we got it sorted.:agree::agree::agree:

[TNT ANDY]

Decided to look further into possible problems, most noteably my overly tappetty C1J. So tonight I started stripping her down and here's what I've found.

There is a bit of damage to 1 or 2 followers, number 6 being the worst......


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4024.JPG


As shown there. I've no idea why it would do this but a few have. Also the tappets at that end are showing a bit of ........

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4016.JPG

Again, not too sure why this has happened but it has. Not the best picture, sorry.

It will be interesting to have a look at the cam and see what shape that is. I'll be doing this in the evenings and try to keep up with the posts.

[TNT ANDY]

Engine will be out soon so that I can fit my new flywheel and clutch, just need to have the flywheel assembly balanced before it goes in.

Whilst she's all apart, I'll be fitting the new tubular manifold, helix 6 paddle and 172 flywheel to re-locate the pickup for the EFI and get rid of the trigger wheel..

Take off the .........

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4025.JPG

And fit the ....


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4026.JPG


And tonight we'll finish like......



http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4027.JPG

[GT Josh]

Andy looks great pal. How much did you give for that manifold and where from if you don't mind me asking??

[GT Josh]

Is it Glenn's old one?

[TNT ANDY]

Andy looks great pal. How much did you give for that manifold and where from if you don't mind me asking??

No it's not Glenns old one, a chap called Markey B sold it to me, can't remember how much now as it was a while ago and I bought it with some other bits. Wasn't much though, he never charges member a lot for stuff.

[GT Josh]

Ah ok bud looks great :agree:

That cam follower is proper mashed lol. :smokin:

[Tony Walker]

Maybe the tappy(large gap) has caused the follower rocker damage crashing into each other?

[TNT ANDY]

Maybe the tappy(large gap) has caused the follower rocker damage crashing into each other?

Not too sure tbh - never seen this b4, I'll have to replace the damaged followers and possibly replace the rocker shaft assembly, go from there. I'll gap as per book @ 20/25 in/exh. Got Oli (aka Ipswich) on the hunt for some spare followers. I'm going to remove a valve also as it looks like my valve spring seats don't look as though they have been relieved, I'll be getting that done if not.

[Tony Walker]

What do you mean releaved? Give the spring more clearance?

[Dave Reed]

What do you mean releaved? Give the spring more clearance?


Exactly that.

The damage could well be just old followers.. Most cam peeps suggest new followers with a new cam.. Looks more like incorrect tappet adjustment to me.

Unfortunately your cam is going to be fooked.

[markey b]

Not too sure tbh - never seen this b4, I'll have to replace the damaged followers and possibly replace the rocker shaft assembly, go from there. I'll gap as per book @ 20/25 in/exh. Got Oli (aka Ipswich) on the hunt for some spare followers. I'm going to remove a valve also as it looks like my valve spring seats don't look as though they have been relieved, I'll be getting that done if not.


andy, i'm pretty sure i've got spare followers and a rocker assembly if you get stuck... dont forget i'm the 'king of det' so like to keep some spares in stock :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

Exactly that.

The damage could well be just old followers.. Most cam peeps suggest new followers with a new cam.. Looks more like incorrect tappet adjustment to me.

Unfortunately your cam is going to be fooked.

I think you might well be right on all counts Dave - I hope my cam is fooked so it forces me to get a decent one instead of the worlds ****est 285 (re-profiled @ 129deg FFS) I bought new followers when I installed the cam many moons ago and followed the installation including the 20 min 200rpm run in. I did run for many years with the wrong gapping in the tappets due to a set of incorrectly marked up feeler guages if you can believe that.

I'm gonna stick in a few new followers and see how we get on.

[TNT ANDY]

andy, i'm pretty sure i've got spare followers and a rocker assembly if you get stuck... dont forget i'm the 'king of det' so like to keep some spares in stock :laugh:

Thanks for that det king - I have Oli coming over on Monday with some followers, I have a spare rocker assy' I'll have a look and see if it's in good nick or not.

Feeling the lurve.

If Oli takes your crank and intercooler, will that make it any easier getting it back to you?

[HAndy]

new cam and followers ,and possibly new pushrods:scratch:

ouch!!!! thats going to be expensive:cry:

[GT Josh]

The woes of pushing these engines. Just as I reached the 200bhp mark it broke :crap:

[TNT ANDY]

new cam and followers ,and possibly new pushrods:scratch:

ouch!!!! thats going to be expensive:cry:

probably not as much as I lost in the casino last night LOL:wasntme:

[TNT ANDY]

Big thanks to Oli popping over last night with the followers, after seeing the damage to my cam and looking about a bit, it looks like simply putting a new cam with old followers is not the way to go. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, but I'm not too sure.

The cam is mullered with a fair amount of missing lobe on the edges of 8, 6 and 4. The middles look ok but there is a shocking amount missing from the edges. I'll post up pictures when I've got the engine out, should be tomorrow all being well.

[HAndy]

Big thanks to Oli popping over last night with the followers, after seeing the damage to my cam and looking about a bit, it looks like simply putting a new cam with old followers is not the way to go. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, but I'm not too sure.

The cam is mullered with a fair amount of missing lobe on the edges of 8, 6 and 4. The middles look ok but there is a shocking amount missing from the edges. I'll post up pictures when I've got the engine out, should be tomorrow all being well.


might be worth pulling the sump of then, and having a look at the big ends, and oil pump also then, giving it the once over so to speak, all that metals gone somewhere:(

[TNT ANDY]

might be worth pulling the sump of then, and having a look at the big ends, and oil pump also then, giving it the once over so to speak, all that metals gone somewhere:(

It's getting pulled apart chap.

[TNT ANDY]

Engine out!

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4037.JPG

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4038.JPG

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4039.JPG

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/DSCF4040.JPG


Got to say - That's the easiest way to get an engine out.

Tomorrow - Get her on a stand and start investigating this n that.

[Tony Walker]

did it have oil spraying to the rocker cover? ive never looked... does it flow through the rocker shaft? if so are there holes blocked on those particular rockers?

[TNT ANDY]

did it have oil spraying to the rocker cover? ive never looked... does it flow through the rocker shaft? if so are there holes blocked on those particular rockers?

Through the bar - all clear on 1st inspection

[Brigsy]

Did you lube the cam up properly before fitting? No excessive cranking to start after fitting? My followers have survived a couple of different cams:confused:

[TNT ANDY]

Yup - it was all done by the book. I really can't think why the damage has occurred apart from a poor re-grind etc. I do have a set of used followers that I could use, but wherever I look it says 'never fit a new cam with old follower' with 1 or 2 odd exceptions. :confused:

[TNT ANDY]

Really getting on my tits now :cry: Think I've 2x hairline cracked liners :cry:

See

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4697493876675.195034.1273975552&type=3

For pictures

This one's the worst. It's not cracked right through, but you can feel it is a definite crack. I have a full set of low mileage liners I can put in which look in good condition. If I'm putting the existing piston / rings in, do I need to de-glaze?

[Tony Walker]

I can't say if it's cracked from the pics, I'd probably fit a set of new rings for the effort you've gone too it makes sense.

[TNT ANDY]

What's the crack with using my existing pistons (with new rings) in the different honned liners? Is this ok?

[Tony Walker]

Can't see it being a prob. It's the rings that fit to the liners, just check the ring gaps ok.

[TNT ANDY]

:agree:
Can't see it being a prob. It's the rings that fit to the liners, just check the ring gaps ok.:agree:

[TNT ANDY]

Right - Stripped the head down tonight as getting it checked over the next few weeks, can anyone tell me if these seats look relieved or not??

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/DSCF4055.JPG


And



http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/DSCF4054.JPG


I think they are - the work was done at CTM many moons ago, and you can see a bit of machining at the tops of each seat where the work has been done, doesn't look as though Renault would have done it if you know what I mean.

[TNT ANDY]

Anyone?

[Markey Mark (BD)]

I'm not so sure, doesn't look like a clean cut into the head more a cast but as you say as it was done many years ago could be aged now.

[TNT ANDY]

I'm not so sure, doesn't look like a clean cut into the head more a cast but as you say as it was done many years ago could be aged now.

I suppose the best thing is to find out what the spring top height should be and go from there.

Cheers

[TNT ANDY]

OK - bit of an update:-

1. K-Tec state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
2. CatCams state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
3. I've measured a 10mm lift and I still have about 1.5mm - 2mm of free travel left n the spring.

The cam turned up and looks fab, aparently the new CatCams 285 is optimised and now timed in @ 113 deg as per

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Cat%20Cam285.pdf

Head has gone off for checking as it was weeping a little from the front edge

Crank and flywheel off to be balanced and the main end journals cleaned up.

That's it - 2-3 weeks wait for this, got to say, I've found another great engineer, well respected in the mini 7's and Miglia race scene TMW Engineers if you need HQ stuff.

In the mean time, I'll be fitting my liners after de-glazing.

[R5MJH]

OK - bit of an update:-

1. K-Tec state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
2. CatCams state the valve spring seats do not require relieving with uprated springs.
3. I've measured a 10mm lift and I still have about 1.5mm - 2mm of free travel left n the spring.

The cam turned up and looks fab, aparently the new CatCams 285 is optimised and now timed in @ 113 deg as per

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Cat%20Cam285.pdf

Head has gone off for checking as it was weeping a little from the front edge

Crank and flywheel off to be balanced and the main end journals cleaned up.

That's it - 2-3 weeks wait for this, got to say, I've found another great engineer, well respected in the mini 7's and Miglia race scene TMW Engineers if you need HQ stuff.

In the mean time, I'll be fitting my liners after de-glazing.
this is the exact same as the bb285 cam made by catcams 113 degrees i never deglaze just make sure you hold at bout 3k on first start for a few mins

[TNT ANDY]

this is the exact same as the bb285 cam made by catcams 113 degrees i never deglaze just make sure you hold at bout 3k on first start for a few mins

Coolio - The reason I'm deglazing is because I'm putting in new liners and piston rings, it has nothing to do with the cam.

Cam running in should be no less than 2.5K for 20 mins according to Piper, CatCams and Kent.:agree:

[R5MJH]

Coolio - The reason I'm deglazing is because I'm putting in new liners and piston rings, it has nothing to do with the cam.

Cam running in should be no less than 2.5K for 20 mins according to Piper, CatCams and Kent.:agree:

exactly make sure water is ok before 1st start then hold at 3k for 20 mins and ya good to go boss, we had new everything mate pistons liners and rings use a good coat of wd40 on liners this helps first start to boss
ive never deglazed mate no need:wasntme:
i also remove main ht before 1st start and crank for 30secs make sure oil pressure is ok and oil is circulating

[TNT ANDY]

New pistons and liners on the way.

Thanks Ross.

[TNT!hammond]

New pistons and liners on the way.

Thanks Ross.

Heheeh , just to let you know Andy is only upset as I pointed out the liners he planned on using had a ridge at the top of piston stroke you could climb on, pretty sure Stallone was using one in his new cliffhanger 2 film for the huge suspended drop scene :p:p:popcorn::upyours:

[Brigsy]

I never relieved the spring seats when fitting my piper springs, it should be ok

[TNT ANDY]

Heheeh , just to let you know Andy is only upset as I pointed out the liners he planned on using had a ridge at the top of piston stroke you could climb on, pretty sure Stallone was using one in his new cliffhanger 2 film for the huge suspended drop scene :p:p:popcorn::upyours:

:cry:

[TNT ANDY]

I never relieved the spring seats when fitting my piper springs, it should be ok

Cheers Brigsy - now confirmed, I've been waiting for that.
:agree:

[JP Racing]

Looking good mate not long before its all back together :)

[TNT ANDY]

Made a jig up as per young Scotty (cheers fella - just the ticket) heated the whole piston / rod assembly to 220 deg c and pushed the pin out in my vice. Still very tight, but it went ok. I used the same jig to push the new pins onto the rods. Froze the pins over - night and heated rod no 1 to 250 deg c (removing shells 1st) popped it in the jig and pushed it in. I was just doing No 1 for the moment to gauge how much of a pain / how much damage I might do. It took a lot of pressure to push them in, but they went in as I would have imagined if I had not heated them. But it's in there now, full steam ahead now. I'll be checking the cam timing with just piston 1 in the bore to make it easier to be accurate.

I'll take some photo's and do a write up in the technical section for future reference.

[TNT ANDY]

Now fluffy really is getting on my tits.

Got all the pistons on their respective rods and started installing them turning the crank over after I tightned the caps up on each one, one at a time. All good until cap no 3, which when tightened binds the crank up. Grrrr I'm thinking bent rod. Anyone had this? I'll be trying a different rod tomorrow and see how I get on with that one.

It never rains.:cry:

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

are you sure it's the right cap for the rod and it's the right way round?

is the piston facing the right way?

[Scoff]

if you get the small end of the rod cherry red the pins drop in with no effort at all andy, thats how I've done them in the past. Getting pistons off is the hard bit!

[TNT ANDY]

Yup - sure, I was very careful to get this right.

[TNT ANDY]

if you get the small end of the rod cherry red the pins drop in with no effort at all andy, thats how I've done them in the past. Getting pistons off is the hard bit!

Must say there was still a great deal of effort to get the pins in. I might just try to get the new piston on another rod using that technique and see how I get on sounds a lot less stressful in literal terms!

[Scoff]

well, I say they drop right in. they do for the first 3 seconds, then they bind, and then they're a pig to move. So you need the jig set up ready to drop the pin right in to the correct position straight away. Saves bending the rod or scuffing a piston.

Regards the rod bearings, try bolting it to the journal with the piston hanging out the bottom of the engine, and if it turns on the journal OK then you must have bent the rod.

[TNT ANDY]

well, I say they drop right in. they do for the first 3 seconds, then they bind, and then they're a pig to move. So you need the jig set up ready to drop the pin right in to the correct position straight away. Saves bending the rod or scuffing a piston.

Regards the rod bearings, try bolting it to the journal with the piston hanging out the bottom of the engine, and if it turns on the journal OK then you must have bent the rod.

Top tip there if I ever saw one:agree:

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

Yup - sure, I was very careful to get this right.

I know you would have done, and you would have been :agree:

Have you put no.4 in yet? with no.3 disconnected and pushed up out the way does it turn freely?

[TNT ANDY]

Yes the other 3 are in and torqued down, it turns freely
:confused:

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

I take it you're not using new bearings? and original crank? everything that came off is going back in?

just ruling out other factors, just seems strange it's just the one rod if everything has been done the same

[TNT ANDY]

I take it you're not using new bearings? and original crank? everything that came off is going back in?

just ruling out other factors, just seems strange it's just the one rod if everything has been done the same

I know - this engine does not like me.:cry:

[markey b]

Top tip there if I ever saw one:agree:

we just used a blowtorch to head up the end of the rod, and the gudgeons literally pop back in by hand

[Tony Walker]

I dont think 250c is hot enough when there nearly going red they should slide in effortlessly.

id say close to double the temp is needed.

Temperature when metal glows red
How to tell what temperature a glowing object (metals) might be:

Doesn’t really matter what the emitter is…stainless steel, cast iron, tungsten in your light bulb, the temps are about the same for a given color. Generally accepted colors/temps are:

C F Color

400 752 Red heat, visible in the dark
474 885 Red heat, visible in the twilight
525 975 Red heat, visible in the daylight
581 1077 Red heat, visible in the sunlight
700 1292 Dark red
800 1472 Dull cherry-red
900 1652 Cherry-red
1000 1832 Bright cherry-red
1100 2012 Orange-red

[Tony Walker]

just shows how hot your exhaust/turbo gets sometimes :agree:

[TNT ANDY]

OK - Got a new rod on, all is good!

we continue...................................

Tomorrow!

[Tony Walker]

:agree:

[TNT ANDY]

OK - bottom end is all back together, all torqued down nice and tight, sump and timing chain guard back on. Vavles back in the head using a different spring compressor.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BGS-Valve-spring-compressor-OHV-/00/s/NjM1WDcxMA==/$(KGrHqN,!o0F!NWqu0fNBQP4lC0c-!~~60_12.JPG

Much nicer than the other type, even the TNT modded one:laugh:

Just for reference - sizes.

Inlet valve - 34mm
Ex valve - 29mm
Head height - 73.2mm

Tonight I'll get the end plate back on and mock fit to the block and start looking at getting the exhaust support bracket to fit my set-up.

Getting there.

[markey b]

i used a 16v spring compressor to put mine back in, took over an hour with lots of swearing, the one that u posted a pic of looks like a winner!

[TNT!hammond]

TNT modded one looked a lot cooler though, I think the 4ft long lever handle we had welded to it may have caused it to break :crap::wasntme:

[Tony Walker]

I made something similar to change my stem seals without taking the head off ;)

[TNT ANDY]

Raceland manifold on.
Then off
then on
then off

Staying off:mad:

Was looking forward to maybe gaining a little top end from that. Oh well, it just won't go on with the EFI inlet manifold, maybe another time.

Beer night tomorrow, then Thursday should see the clutch going in and possibly lowering C1 back into Fluffy. Fingers crossed. BTW anyone got the exhaust support bracket on with a 2.5inch down pipe???

[Tony Walker]

Nightmare, thats bad enough putting on once :disagree:
I did it on my drive at home and swore id never work on my car at home again lol.
Much much easier with the head off :agree::laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

Nightmare, thats bad enough putting on once :disagree:
I did it on my drive at home and swore id never work on my car at home again lol.
Much much easier with the head off :agree::laugh:

piece of cake when off - I remember doing the inlet manifold with the engine in the car - epic pain in't arse.

[philr5t]

Got any pictures of the efi manifold Andy :agree:

[TNT ANDY]

Got any pictures of the efi manifold Andy :agree:

Not atm - I can get some on tomorrow:agree:

It's an MT 1st version - same as Dave Reeds old one I think.

[philr5t]

Not atm - I can get some on tomorrow:agree:


Cool mate would be nice to see what it looks like was it made for you or was it one of Michael t's manifolds

Sorry mate just read your last reply :wasntme: I'm sure dave used to run the raceland manifold with the efi manifold how come you can't fit it mate

[TNT ANDY]

Cool mate would be nice to see what it looks like was it made for you or was it one of Michael t's manifolds

Sorry mate just read your last reply :wasntme: I'm sure dave used to run the raceland manifold with the efi manifold how come you can't fit it mate

The runner coming away from exhaust port No 1 wants to mate with inlet runner No 1. bit of a cock really. As it is atm the exhaust runner runner would need to be chopped off and dropped by about 6-8mm. I really can't be arsed with getting that done now, and also I haven't seen any conclusive evidence to prove what the Tubby manifold does apart from cook starter motors and fall to bits. I'll possibly keep hold of this and keep it on one side should I re-design the inlet manifold.

[Logg]

Andy I've both those manifold fitted the inlet needed some heavy trimming to fit but it does fit. ;)

[Dave Reed]

Andy I've both those manifold fitted the inlet needed some heavy trimming to fit but it does fit. ;)

Yep does fit, as said it needs some heavy grinding to get it to fit, there's plenty of meat on the inlet mani..

Ill see if I've got any pics, if not Jesus may have taken some before he fitted the lump.

[TNT ANDY]

Hmmmm - looked pretty impossible to me, but, if you say so, might be worth a play. Did you have to remove one of the fixing bolts?

[Tony Walker]

The 5 sounds lost but is replaced by a screaming almost motorbike sound :D i like it, and the power difference is very noticeable, less torquey but through the gears so much quicker.

[Tony Walker]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.23357000110.60172.788170110&type=3#!/photo.php?v=10152157046110111&set=vb.788170110&type=3&theater

Thats what mine sounds like, cam timing was way too retarded in that vid but gives you an idea.

[Dave Reed]

Hmmmm - looked pretty impossible to me, but, if you say so, might be worth a play. Did you have to remove one of the fixing bolts?

Nope didn't have to remove any fixings.. All you need to to do is get all the nuts on first before tightening or you'll be swearing after ;)

Also worth mentioning, you need to put both manifolds on together.

[TNT ANDY]

Nope didn't have to remove any fixings.. All you need to Sonia get all the nuts on first before tightening or you'll be swearing after ;)

Also worth mentioning, you need to put both manis on together.

Cheers Dave. 2 things

1. Who's Sonia?
2. Should you be openly broadcasting your inner monologue?

:laugh:

[Dave Reed]

Cheers Dave. 2 things

1. Who's Sonia?
2. Should you be openly broadcasting your inner monologue?

:laugh:

:ashamed::ashamed::ashamed: Sonia normally only comes out at the weekend :cooter::D

Bloody iPhone! Lol...

[TNT ANDY]

Well would you Adam and Eve it


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4154.JPG

Even TNT Ross couldn't get into that gap :cooter:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4156.JPG


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4153.JPG

[TNT ANDY]

Well would you Adam and Eve it


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4154.JPG

Even TNT Ross couldn't get into that gap :cooter:

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4156.JPG


http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Exhaust%20manifold/DSCF4153.JPG

Cheers guys for the pointers:agree::agree::agree:

[TNT!hammond]

Get the lard ill give it a go :cooter:

[TNT ANDY]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Get the lard ill give it a go :cooter:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You'd go in dry you dirty munchkin :laugh:

[Os8472]

Fookin hell, Ross ya still alive then fella, how's tricks?

[TNT ANDY]

Gone again :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

Bad news tonight - getting the flywheel on, and found it doesn't fit - somebody did say it wouldn't go on. Should have listened to that person and not the other one:crap: You live and learn.

:cry:

[TNT!hammond]

Gone again :laugh:

I'm not :cooter:

I'm all good Oli, manic with work and the misses shop we are trying to sort too. Red finally got back on the road again then off in about 100 miles a I wasn't happy with her still mainly due to a leak on the manifold . All back together again nearly only took 2 months for a manifold gasket change :ashamed::sad2: just got too muc other stuff running at the mo to enjoy the car.

Hope you are all good though ?

[Os8472]

I'm not :cooter:

I'm all good Oli, manic with work and the misses shop we are trying to sort too. Red finally got back on the road again then off in about 100 miles a I wasn't happy with her still mainly due to a leak on the manifold . All back together again nearly only took 2 months for a manifold gasket change :ashamed::sad2: just got too muc other stuff running at the mo to enjoy the car.

Hope you are all good though ?

Works on its arse :(

and its too fecking cold out to do anything to the cars, taking the 9 to butterbollocks unit this weeks so I can finish the welding and get it back on the road.

Apart from that I'm good

[HAndy]

Bad news tonight - getting the flywheel on, and found it doesn't fit - somebody did say it wouldn't go on. Should have listened to that person and not the other one:crap: You live and learn.

:cry:


where you trying to fit a volvo /renault valver flywheel to a c1j crank by any chance:(

[HAndy]

just read the classifieds,who told you a 172 flywheel would fit a c1j crank pattern:homer::homer::wasntme:

[TNT ANDY]

just read the classifieds,who told you a 172 flywheel would fit a c1j crank pattern:homer::homer::wasntme:

Not to mention the additional cost at the engineers. Doh

[TNT ANDY]

Got a chap to machine the 172 6 paddle clutch and cover onto my Megan 1.6 8v flywheel, should be done next Thursday all being well.

Thanks Markey B for the contact - should have done this in the 1st place LOL.

BTW just for the record - the chap who supplied me with the flywheel etc is genuine and it has been a mistake just incase anyone thinks there's any piss taking going on. One of those things.:cooter:

[markey b]

Got a chap to machine the 172 6 paddle clutch and cover onto my Megan 1.6 8v flywheel, should be done next Thursday all being well.

Thanks Markey B for the contact - should have done this in the 1st place LOL.

BTW just for the record - the chap who supplied me with the flywheel etc is genuine and it has been a mistake just incase anyone thinks there's any piss taking going on. One of those things.:cooter:

i'm sure i said to get a flywheel drilled months ago :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

:cartman:

[TNT ANDY]

i'm sure i said to get a flywheel drilled months ago :laugh:

LOL - cheers bud, got it done and the fecker aint in the middle of the flywheel. I had my suspicions when I picked it up, so I measured it. .75mm out to one side, now I know that doesn't sound a lot, but I would think at 7500 rpm its going to exaggerate that somewhat. Anyway, lond story short, I've just ordered a Panther 4 paddle clutch, coverplate and bearing and a new flywheel. I'll have this on and back in within a couple of weeks.

[markey b]

oh no! will it cause failure by that ammount? i know mines been ok but then again i dont do enough miles to show up a problem.

[TNT ANDY]

oh no! will it cause failure by that ammount? i know mines been ok but then again i dont do enough miles to show up a problem.

I would have thought so chap - I'm spending a fair bit on this engine, I can't really see the point in sticking that flywheel arrangement in knowing it's not right. It'll be in the back of my mind all the while if I put it in. I'm a bit of a tart like that.

[DaveL485]

oh no! will it cause failure by that ammount? i know mines been ok but then again i dont do enough miles to show up a problem.

If it went it would be a catastrophic failure and probably destroy the box and if you were unlucky come straight through the bulkhead and kill the passenger....

Never underestimate the energy stored in the flywheel, at 7000rpm if you are in the way, you're marmalade.

[Scoff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0TxZFDLa3w

[Nick k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0TxZFDLa3w

That's awesome :D

[Scoff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0TxZFDLa3w

and from there I got to this, wtf :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEdgQJEdTA

[Nick k]

and from there I got to this, wtf :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEdgQJEdTA

Scoff you need to get out more!! It ate a sofa bed :D

[Hoolio]

and from there I got to this, wtf :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEdgQJEdTA

Wow a rock and Tampax shredding machine, I want one.

[TNT ANDY]

If it went it would be a catastrophic failure and probably destroy the box and if you were unlucky come straight through the bulkhead and kill the passenger....

Never underestimate the energy stored in the flywheel, at 7000rpm if you are in the way, you're marmalade.

My thoughts exactly, but hold on, Ipswich could be in that passenger seat, it's going in.:cooter:

Convincing enough for me - Cheers Scoff.

[Os8472]

My thoughts exactly, but hold on, Ipswich could be in that passenger seat, it's going in.:cooter:

Thanks C**t ;)

[Woznaldo]

Flywheel is just something I'd let an expert do and even then, like you already have, double check everything. I've seen the carnage from the classic mini world where the flywheel is just if front of the drivers family jewels!

[Tony Walker]

Flywheel is just something I'd let an expert do and even then, like you already have, double check everything. I've seen the carnage from the classic mini world where the flywheel is just if front of the drivers family jewels!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :disagree:

[TNT ANDY]

Flywheel is just something I'd let an expert do and even then, like you already have, double check everything. I've seen the carnage from the classic mini world where the flywheel is just if front of the drivers family jewels!

Could save a younger pup a fortune that could:laugh:

[DaveL485]

and from there I got to this, wtf :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibEdgQJEdTA

A baby one, how sweet!

Here's Daddy! :eek::eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxcJDONE_U

[TNT ANDY]

A baby one, how sweet!

Here's Daddy! :eek::eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxcJDONE_U

Please start another thread titled 'shreader porn' in the general discussion area.

Only kidding - put whatever you want up, and that's a mighty fine shreader, I wonder how many people have lost there limbs / lives in one of these things

[GT Josh]

Is one o them romils block?? :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Is one o them romils block?? :laugh:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[HAndy]

nah, most of them where probabley marky b's;) good old ginger:laugh::laugh::laugh:, more heads than russian porn star:cooter::p:laugh:

[Os8472]

A baby one, how sweet!

Here's Daddy! :eek::eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxcJDONE_U

Sweet Jesus :eek:

[Mr Raider]

Talking of shredders, - believe Ross had a close shave with an angle grinder in his tracky bottoms ;) :wasntme:

[TNT ANDY]

:laugh:
Talking of shredders, - believe Ross had a close shave with an angle grinder in his tracky bottoms ;) :wasntme:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[markey b]

nah, most of them where probabley marky b's;) good old ginger:laugh::laugh::laugh:, more heads than russian porn star:cooter::p:laugh:

not heads, just pistons, liners, head gaskets, still on orignal crank and shells though :laugh:

[TNT!hammond]

Talking of shredders, - believe Ross had a close shave with an angle grinder in his tracky bottoms ;) :wasntme:

Note to everyone , make sure they are baggy track bottoms so it snags the blade and kills the motor, if I was wearing my Lycra ones I would have had no sack left :sad2::sad: hahahahhah close call hahahahahha

[Scoff]

I once put a 12" table saw blade in a 2kw grinder to chop a doorway through a barn door. Somehow I managed to slip and drop it while running, the blade swung by my leg and sliced through my jeans, incredibly just brushing the skin without injury. That was my lucky day :)

[TNT ANDY]

I once put a 12" table saw blade in a 2kw grinder to chop a doorway through a barn door. Somehow I managed to slip and drop it while running, the blade swung by my leg and sliced through my jeans, incredibly just brushing the skin without injury. That was my lucky day :)

That's just plain silly that is.

[TNT!hammond]

I once put a 12" table saw blade in a 2kw grinder to chop a doorway through a barn door. Somehow I managed to slip and drop it while running, the blade swung by my leg and sliced through my jeans, incredibly just brushing the skin without injury. That was my lucky day :)

Scoff , I only need to replace your name with mine to believe I'd do something just this stupid , are you sure your not interested in the building game ?hahaha

[TNT ANDY]

Ross i fook everything up, electrical / car related, I just can't help it. But I do have top say, you chucking an angle grinder into your ball sack was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen. The look of sheer panic then the look of amazement of how you hadn't cut your balls off, then panic again as you tried to turn off the bound up grinder which was trying to chew your balls off.

Classic, ney definitive TNT moment.

Thanks for bringing it up Karl.

[TNT ANDY]

A bit more progress.......

I thought it was about time the engine went back in....

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/738043_10200264804444137_1135755041_o.jpg


And there she be.........



http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/416532_10200265196733944_1502930343_o.jpg

That's it for the time being, a couple of points.

1. Leaving the gearbox in is in my opinion the best way of doing an engine removal but you must ensure that the crank end pully is removed, the front right hand engine mount is totally disconnected, supplementary front steady is removed, both other mounts are loosened off and that the gearbox is supported on the right hand side (as looking from inside the car).

Keep to this and it's a very easy task to both remove and install.

Next up, get the head on and start grafting Dave Reeds down pipe onto my existing set-up. A little bit for tonight.

[HAndy]

good work ,keep it up:)

[markey b]

good darts andy! have u given the block a lick of paint too?

[TNT ANDY]

good darts andy! have u given the block a lick of paint too?

Don't be daft.

[markey b]

why not? i know chrome dont get u home, but it makes it loads cleaner and tidier for next time. i dont even get dirty ripping mine apart these days :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Miscellaneous/Stotto/Engine%20strip%202012/Mock%20fit.jpg

Got the head on and Mock fitted to see what needs doing to the down pipe to make it fit. I;m away for a few days, so it'll have to wait untill the weekend now.

Pah

[TNT ANDY]

Update

No pictures, but

1 - the head is on an torqued down 80NM
2 - Big Dave's enlarged elbow grafted on and fitted.
3 - Rad in.
4 - Alernator on.
5 - Tappets adjusted.

Not much left to do, May be able to fire up this week all being well.

[Slammed 66]

May be able to fire up this week all being well.

:agree:

Excellent news Andy.

Hope it fires up easily enough dude

Ross

[TNT!hammond]

Gravel in the gearbox? Or is that only when you come over and help me? :cooter:

Hahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahhahahahhahahha loooooooooooossssssserrrr :cooter:

[TNT ANDY]

I'm ignoring that shorty:cooter:

Almost got all the cooling pipework sorted tonight, well I would have got it done, except that I thought the 2 pipes that run across the top of the engine (expansion from the degas pot to the expansion tank and the return from the degas to the expansion tank) looked ****e, so I re-routed them behind the front cross member so there are no pipes going across the top.

Got to love a bit of copper and cable ties.

That's it for this week unfortunately as every night this week is taken for, so possibly be able to get on on it on Sunday for a bit and we should be 99% there.

Just a stab in the dark here, but I have changed my TB to a slightly larger affair, I'm assuming that with a larger TB I will have to increase my overall fuel trim to take into account the extra volume of air going in. Does that sound about right?

I know I'm going to have it re-mapped again, but to get me going and get the engine run in I think this would be ok for off boost driving.

[Scoff]

No andy don't adjust any trims. You might find throttle response changes a little and so the accel pump / transients might need a tweek. Keep an eye on afr's at full throttle if you think flow is improved anywhere but the throttle alone shouldn't make much or any difference. :)

[TNT ANDY]

No andy don't adjust any trims. You might find throttle response changes a little and so the accel pump / transients might need a tweek. Keep an eye on afr's at full throttle if you think flow is improved anywhere but the throttle alone shouldn't make much or any difference. :)

Lol, cheers Chris, this was indiectly aimed at you, thanks for the reply. There won't be any wot util its mapped again as I have a new cam, exhaust manifold tb etc, so things could be way off.

[TNT ANDY]

Might just get the Fluffmiester up and running tomorrow (fingers Crossed):cool:

[Dave Reed]

Dnt forget to run that new cam in... Or you'll be changing it again..

[TNT ANDY]

Dnt forget to run that new cam in... Or you'll be changing it again..

2.5K - 3K 20 mins should suffice. :agree:

[R5MJH]

2.5K - 3K 20 mins should suffice. :agree:

indeed boss:D

[Dave Reed]

2.5K - 3K 20 mins should suffice. :agree:

Yup, just dnt let it tick over really.. It hard really as you've got a whole new build, should of really thrown a standard cam in as u dnt really want to rev it like that with the new rings etc..

[R5MJH]

ours was a total new build cam and pistons liners and rings we held for 20 mins at 3000 ish revs and weve had no probs and our rings were only inserted using wd40 and all sweet with ours

[Dave Reed]

ours was a total new build cam and pistons liners and rings we held for 20 mins at 3000 ish revs and weve had no probs and our rings were only inserted using wd40 and all sweet with ours


:niceone::niceone::worship::worship:

[TNT ANDY]

Well, Fluffy's back up and running.

Fired up surprisingly easy.

[Slammed 66]

:agree:

[Os8472]

Well, Fluffy's back up and running.

Fired up surprisingly easy.

Good good, how does she feel? Rev ok? No unwanted knocks and rattles?

[TNT ANDY]

Cheers guys

Oli Fluff's still in the garage on axle stands atm and I only had enough time to run in the cam. This sounded very good, no funny noises etc, I need Ross to get round here to mod my bumper, then I can start fiddling with the fuel as it started mega rich yesterday, I'll need a clear head for that though.

I should be able to get her out on the road next weekend to see whats what.

[GTphil]

It's a good feeling when it first fires up:agree: Good work

[TNT ANDY]

It's a good feeling when it first fires up:agree: Good work

Unfortunately, all's not as good as 1st thought!

I had an issue when plugging my injectors back in on the back of the ecu and shorted out some pins which I thought I'd got away with. I don't think so. Early days yet, but it looks like I may have damaged the ECU and or a couple of injectors.

Standby!
:cry:

[Romil Davda]

Hmmm, Injectors? ECU? Wiring/pins?:scratch:??? Oh yeah, EFi all the way... :sad2: (Sorry but LOL) :scared:

[TNT ANDY]

Hmmm, Injectors? ECU? Wiring/pins?:scratch:??? Oh yeah, EFi all the way... :sad2: (Sorry but LOL) :scared:

Lol - I've just asked Ross if he has a spare carb.

And for the record I've never expressed an opinion that EFI is superior to carb. The ignition side is without question, but fueling wise, you only have to look at a few motors on here to see some well set up carbs. I chose efi as it seemed like a logical step forward and it was and still is a challenge.

So stick your sarcasm up your alyhole :cooter:

[Dave Reed]

Injection ftw! :D:p

[Tony Walker]

Lol - I've just asked Ross if he has a spare carb.

And for the record I've never expressed an opinion that EFI is superior to carb. The ignition side is without question, but fueling wise, you only have to look at a few motors on here to see some well set up carbs. I chose efi as it seemed like a logical step forward and it was and still is a challenge.

So stick your sarcasm up your alyhole :cooter:

Itll be worth it in a few years when petrols £2/3/4/5 a litre.

[Scoff]

Hmmm, Injectors? ECU? Wiring/pins?:scratch:??? Oh yeah, EFi all the way... :sad2: (Sorry but LOL) :scared:

Hmmn, carb freeze, poor ecconomy, float bowl emptying, hot starting problems, sticking pump jets ................................. ;)

[rs250nut]

Hmmn, carb freeze, poor ecconomy, float bowl emptying, hot starting problems, sticking pump jets ................................. ;)

....... Worn throttle shafts, missing mixture screws, split diaphragms, corroded water ways.

[andybond]

Your not selling it to me.

Need more reasons.

:scared::p

[Scoff]

....... Worn throttle shafts, missing mixture screws, split diaphragms, corroded water ways.

Blocking idle jets, inferior throttle response, improper fueling at different boost levels, restricted performance, manual choke. I think thats about it ? I can't think of any more :ashamed:

Hopefully andy hasn't damaged anything, but if he has I'm sure it's repairable.

[TNT!hammond]

Ok Scoff , lots of reasons why efi is better however none of them relate to the " talent" that is Andy " you bring it I'll wreck it" Stott who if not every single person on here knows already is an electrician who seemingly always has electrical faults :ashamed: :D hehehe you knows I loves ya stottttoooooooooo :p

[TNT ANDY]

Ok Scoff , lots of reasons why efi is better however none of them relate to the " talent" that is Andy " you bring it I'll wreck it" Stott who if not every single person on here knows already is an electrician who seemingly always has electrical faults :ashamed: :D hehehe you knows I loves ya stottttoooooooooo :p

:cooter::cry:

[TNT ANDY]

Getting nowhere fast here - it's running on 2 cylinders and getting on my tits.

Arghhh.

[Scoff]

Sure you havn't fouled a couple plugs with all this richness ?

I'll answer the string of PM's in a bit when I finish work mate. :)

[TNT ANDY]

Sure you havn't fouled a couple plugs with all this richness ?

I'll answer the string of PM's in a bit when I finish work mate. :)

LOL - no, I've had the plugs out and cleaned them up a fair few times now, it's always 2 & 3 which is giving me the gyp. Hmmmm:scratch:

BTW - I watched this

http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/britten-backyard-visionary-1993

I'm inspired again.

I just lack the knowledge LOL.

Oh and ability.:cartman:

[Dave Reed]

Is it still running rich? Have you swapped the plugs about?

[TNT ANDY]

Is it still running rich? Have you swapped the plugs about?

Hi Dave - yes I gave them a swap around to see if that made a difference - no such luck. However, last night I realised that I had been trying to start Fluffy using the 36-1 patters as per Scoffs trigger wheel, but I have changed the trigger wheel to a flywheel based item with 60-1 without changing the settings in the ECU:cartman: I changed that over and tried last night but that didn't fire up. I'm waiting on Miller to confirm the number of teeth on my flywheel (Scenic 1.6 8v 1998 k7m 102 if there are any geeks on here) and I think as Chris mentioned earlier, I need to get the plugs out and clean them before I try again.

I'm not very good at all this and feel totally lost atm, it makes sense that is was rich as the ecu would count the missing tooth then start the ignition process and I don't know what it does when it got to 36 and then no missing tooth, I suspect it went back round to the beggining of the table again, or even just stopped firing and waited for the missing tooth to come around again, I suspect the later. which again makes sense that the if the firing order is 1-4-3-2 that within the first 180 degrees only 1 and 4 would fire, it runs pretty poorly at about 2k but struggles below that and it make no difference if I remove plugs 2 or 3 whilst it is running.

Can't get back on this till Thursday so I'll have to wait for info from both Miller and Scoff to see if I have my facts right.

[Scoff]

Firing order is 1,3,4,2 andy.

I think that wheel will be 60-2 if you've halved the double renix style tooth.

[TNT ANDY]

Eurika - Big thanks to Scoff again:agree::agree::agree::agree:

we got there in the end.

Time to get the wheels on and get some easy miles on her.

Then mapping.

[TNT ANDY]

Can anyone recommend which engine oil to go in now?

[chris]

Eurika - Big thanks to Scoff again:agree::agree::agree::agree:

we got there in the end.

Time to get the wheels on and get some easy miles on her.

Then mapping.

well done bet thats a relief

[TNT ANDY]

well done bet thats a relief

You aint kidding, when somethings wrong with the Fluff - it's always user error.

Good feeling when you get it right, and it teaches you a bit more also - with a little help from your friends, and that's why I went down the Scoff route - can't praise him enough.

[chris]

how hard is it to go to efi mate?

[TNT ANDY]

Not too, bad so long as you're not a bafoon like me. There's enough people on here now to help you through.

[chris]

Not too, bad so long as you're not a bafoon like me. There's enough people on here now to help you through.

lol trouble is i am a heavy handed bafoon i was offerd an efi manifold with injectors and throttle postion sensor dont know what to do

[Brigsy]

Can anyone recommend which engine oil to go in now?

Run it in with cheap mineral 10/40 then when ran in swap for 10/60 fully synth.

[TNT ANDY]

Cheers Brigsy

[Tony Walker]

Can anyone recommend which engine oil to go in now?


So you got the engine running then decided to put oil in it??? :laugh:

[TNT!hammond]

So you got the engine running then decided to put oil in it??? :laugh:

You are finally understanding Andy hahaha

[TNT ANDY]

Oi - this is TNT Andy - Not Ipswich you fools - pack it in LOL.

[Os8472]

Oi - this is TNT Andy - Not Ipswich you fools - pack it in LOL.

Oi I've never started an engine with no oil in it, split an oil line at 120mph and dropped the lot but never started without it

[Os8472]

Oi - this is TNT Andy - Not Ipswich you fools - pack it in LOL.

Oi I've never started an engine with no oil in it, split an oil line at 120mph and dropped the lot but never started without it

Good to hear she's up and running again Andy

[TNT ANDY]

Oi I've never started an engine with no oil in it, split an oil line at 120mph and dropped the lot but never started without it

FFS - I've not started the car with no oil in it:scared: I was wondering what spec to go for once run in.

[Dave Reed]

FFS - I've not started the car with no oil in it:scared: I was wondering what spec to go for once run in.

Ooow touchy lol

[Dave Reed]

To answer your question I use to run 10/60 mobil 1.


But you really should of put some oil in before you started it.. :cooter:

[Os8472]

Ooow touchy lol

Lol

[Os8472]

But you really should of put some oil in before you started it.. :cooter:

Sorry Andy but I gotta agree, starting with no oil was a bad idea ;)

[TNT ANDY]

To answer your question I use to run 10/60 mobil 1.


But you really should of put some oil in before you started it.. :cooter:

:cooter:

Got some 10-40 mineral in atm and a lovely 5L of mobil 1 on standby.

[TNT ANDY]

Report - Just been out and done 30 miles, no issues apart from fueling - I'll fiddle with this and get back out there. Feels great to be back behind inside Fluffy.

[casper]

Glad fluffy is feeling better.:agree:

[TNT ANDY]

Glad fluffy is feeling better.:agree:

Haha - Cheers Casper me owd fruit:agree:

[TNT ANDY]

OK - quick update, just got back from a 120 mile round trip (I'll text and check before setting off next time, grrrrr) , felt a bit sluggish and struggled up hills. I suspect this is because I have had a few changes since it was mapped last, so I advanced the ignition a wee bit and found it livened up great. kept off boost though to be safe.

Bad points - on the original ignition timing, under load the ecu would cut out, possibly due to electrical 'noise / interference' I'll need to clarify what is what before the long trip to Scoffs.

Also my water pump has sprung a f*****g leak, so I'll change that also before the trip back up north.

Almost there now.

[TNT ANDY]

Update

A mixed day really, on positive we got a map on her and she ran (yes I said that right) absolutely fantastic on my brief outing.

However a few things plaguing -

1 - Raceland Manifold is going in the bin - it was glowing up like it was going to melt @ 15psi, it's cracked despite having 2 good braces on it and it kept setting fire to my wrap (fangita:cooter:)

2 - we didn't spot we had thrown the belt after a run and therefore got the water temps upto 118 deg C which I suspect has blown the head gasket as I drove the entire 250 miles on 2, possibly 3 pistons back to Sunny fooking Norfolk. To top it off my headlights packed up as leaving me no option but to blind every fooker coming the other way or have just my side lights on. The good people of England flashed me either way despite me having my Hazards on.

Back to the drawing board again FFS.

That said, I do have a good map on it now - just need to repair the bits from above .


For the record .......


IF YOU HAVE A RACELAND MANIFOLD THROW IT IN THE BIN OR SHOVE IT UP YOUR ARSE, THEY ARE NOT WORTH THE BOTHER

[Ian S]

Maybe you shouldn't wrap them?

30 or so other buyers with no(?) complaints.

I heard of standard manifolds that were wrapped and bent and leaked.

Unless it's not weldable, then it'll sell quite easily?

[GT Josh]

Wow I feel sorry for you chap. Hope it all goes smoothly for you. Although the way you explained the story did make me chuckle... :laugh:

[BluntyR5GTT]

my raceland manifold was cracked after no more than 150-200 miles, i didnt wrap mine but also it wasnt braced, i had it repaired by my mate and sold it on for what i paid for it.
i personally didnt think there was any gains the only thing it seemed to do was make the exhaust note crap and lose the burble

[HAndy]

sorry to hear the news Andy:(

i guess thats why you where so quiet yesterday:cry:

[Ashy]

To top it off my headlights packed up as leaving me no option but to blind every fooker coming the other way or have just my side lights on. The good people of England flashed me either way despite me having my Hazards on.



I had that once, ended up taking off my white t-shirt, tearing it in half and sticking it over the lights to dim them down a bit.... :eek:

[TNT ANDY]

I had that once, ended up taking off my white t-shirt, tearing it in half and sticking it over the lights to dim them down a bit.... :eek:

LOL - it was a bit chilly for that last night, although that would have been funny to do :D I'd have had people flashing me for an entirely different reason :laugh:

[TNT ANDY]

sorry to hear the news Andy:(

i guess thats why you where so quiet yesterday:cry:

Yeh - it's never easy to text everyone that's interested Andy, and when you're 250 miles from home, you don't want to spend half hour texting ****e news LOL. but like I say, it was not all bad. Won't take long to sort it out and get back on the road. I'll only be running 18 psi for the time being until I can get back to Scoff.

[TNT ANDY]

Wow I feel sorry for you chap. Hope it all goes smoothly for you. Although the way you explained the story did make me chuckle... :laugh:

:agree:

[TNT ANDY]

my raceland manifold was cracked after no more than 150-200 miles, i didnt wrap mine but also it wasnt braced, i had it repaired by my mate and sold it on for what i paid for it.
i personally didnt think there was any gains the only thing it seemed to do was make the exhaust note crap and lose the burble

Yeh, I was trying to take out any bottle neck that may exist in my set - up, but tbh, for 200 - 230 bhp, I think it's possibly my turbo now and I won't be changing that any time soon, so the manifold can go. It was quite shocking how easily it glowed up.

It will look good on my garage wall though to go along with the other bit's n bobs I'm breaking and collecting.

[TNT ANDY]

Right - onwards and upwards as they say

1st thing to do - compression check - I assume that there will be a breach between 2 cylinders and I'll need to put a new gasket in there. with the car overheating would it be best to have the head checked for straightness? Can I do this myself? or is it best left to an engineer?

Here we go again :crap:

[casper]

Poor fluffy.Get well soon.:agree: