View Full Version : Project 12 Seconds!!
Well, I thought it's about time I did a project thread on here.
I have owned my Raider for 8 years nearly now, in that time it's gone from everyday whip in which time it did over 45000 hard lead foot miles, it's had a few scrapes with telegraph poles and bmw's and such like and now barely does 1000 miles a year and spends most of its time sat in a garage in bits:coffee:
So way back in 2010 the car had barely covered 500 miles in three years, was sat unloved on a car park under a cover almost completely forgotten about:(I had just bought a house with the Mrs and found in the December that my Mrs was pregnant with twins:eek:I decided that I needed to pull my finger out and get it sorted before the little un's arrived otherwise it would have probably rotted to death:cry:
I got the old girl started and took her on some private roads for a bit of a warm up/shakedown. The lump had been mostly untouched since I purchased the car in 2005. The last time I had used the car was at the rtoc pod day in 2010 where it did a mid 13 with around 20psi on a t28. Anyway to cut a long story short the actuator vac pipe somehow came off and well you can guess what happened, lots of white smoke and a rather embarrassed me as I was just taking someone for a spin in it:ashamed:
It was at this point that project 12 seconds was born:D
It was originally meant to be just a basic engine re-fresh and some more boost then one thing lead to another and it ended up being a complete re-build with lots of new shiny parts:smokin:
The basic goal was to turn it into primarily a road car capable of doing a 12 second quarter mile. Some may see this as an easy target or been there done that but I was on a very limited budget and also a quite limited timescale with the impending arrival of the twins:) Also i must point out that my mechanical experience before this point was what i would class a not very much!!:scared: I have met a few good freinds through RTOC who have helped in a big way when it came to picking things up so to speak. As an example when I first purchased the car in 2005 I thought the carb top was the turbo:ashamed: (not sure I should really admit that)
So thanks to my very kind neighbour and good friend Dany I had some workspace that was under cover and the use of various tools such as a compressor and basically a very well kitted out spacious garage
This was the day I rolled it into the garage
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/itbegins.jpg
Then after a few hours work
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/semistripped2.jpg
Basically I had blown the head gasket between cylinders 1 and 2, a contributing factor to this was the fact my engine actuallly had odd pistons, it had three dished pistons and one flat topped one, god knows how it ended up like that, it was before I purchased it anyway, even so, the motor did over 45000 miles like this and actually was in quite good health minus the damage:eek:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/engineout.jpg
So I got the bottom end onto an engine stand and began to strip it down to a bare block.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/inbits.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/blockstripped2.jpg
At this point I was still intent on re-using the majority of the old parts and just re-assembling with all new bearings gaskets/seals. The issue I had was that I needed to find a single dished low comp piston to replace the flat topped one from my engine. I did manage to find a set of low comp pistons and rod, one of them had spun a bearing and was scrap but the rest appered to be usable. I set about purchasing all the required parts to put the bottom end back together.
To cut a long story short when I started to put the block back together the new replacement low comp pistons I had purchased kept on pinching the crank when tourqed up:( no matter what I did they were not for moving freely at all. so i wrapped the block in a bin liner and pretty much left it at that for a few week while i saved up some cash and decided on my next move.
Thats all for now as stupid slow photobucket is really starting to get on my nerves:mad:
Plenty more progress and pictures to come, to take it up the present day;)
A bloody good read! :agree: Can't wait for part 2...
Tony Walker
03-06-2012, 10:40
Great :D were all four rods tight on the crank or did you try them one at a time and single one out as tight?
Woznaldo
03-06-2012, 12:47
Awesome thread, lots will be reading as they will be in similar circumstances. Lets see it through to that 12 sec run!!!!
Great :D were all four rods tight on the crank or did you try them one at a time and single one out as tight?
They were all marked up with a punch I.e 1 2 3 4.
They all pinched the crank, the only way I could get them moving was to swap the caps over. Maybe they were mixed up I don't know, either way I ended up not using them as I didn't want to take any chances.;)
Tony Walker
03-06-2012, 14:53
ah ok :D better safe than sorry, do it once do it right :agree:
I came to the conclusion that if I was going to do this then I may as well do it to the best that my budget could strech to (and occasionally beyond:wasntme:)
So the first port of call was to get an engineer to give the crank a once over, this was how it came out of the engine
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/crank2.jpg
The mains were ever so slightly scored the big ends however seemed to be in A1 condition, amazing what changing the oil and filter every 2.5k can do for an engine, I properly abused this lump over the years and it appered to have just taken it without bother:smokin::smokin:
A wise man said to me that if you can feel your finger nail drop into the scoring marks then it will probably need a re-grind, the engineer agreed that it could have just gone back in as it was or if I wanted he would re-gring the mains and polish the big ends (:laugh:) for me, so I took him up on his offer and for good measure got him to clean up the block, I'm pressuming they hot washed it as it came back immaculate.
This was after the first of many coats or good old POR 15;)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/blockpainted.jpg
This was the crank upon return, also the engine assembly lube that I used.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/crankandlube.jpg
I then proceded to buy a whole load of new parts for the bottom end:) I also got my hands on a mint (and i mean mint) second hand gearbox, I also treated myself to an AP cerametalic 4 plate paddle clutch:cool:
285 cam kit (includes vernia and valve springs) not a regrind either it was ground from a blank:)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/285cam.jpg
New pistons and liners and rings
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pistonandlinerkit.jpg
The pistons after the wise man had worked his magic
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pistonsdished.jpg
I decided to go for the low compression pistons again as the engine before this seemed to perform well, the cylinder head was 73.1mm the last time I had it skimmed, there seemed to be a lot of people who agreed that renault got it correct in the first instance with the compression ratio, I never actually calculated the compression ratio ( maths was never my strong point:wasntme:) but assumed that with an uprated Blue gasket that the ratio would be ever so slightly lower than standard and given my limited tuning experiance probably not a bad thing all in all.
Clutch plate
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/paddle.jpg
The box once fitted and driven on felt like new:cool:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/boxandstarter.jpg
I also purchased lots of new ancillary parts:cool:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/parts.jpg
The car on it's side in the background was a 1988 merc 190E cosworth:cool: ended up meeting a grizley end as it was pretty much beyond saving after sitting still outside for god knows how many years:(
Quality thread!!:agree:
Love ones like this. Helps keep me motivated!
Get more pics up i say :)
rs250nut
04-06-2012, 09:49
Is the timing sensor adjustable?If not its proabley worth making it adjustable for tuning, easy enough to do with a blow torch.
At the moment the ignition timing is standard, I have played about with timing before at much lower boost, yet to try it at circa 24psi:scared: I have focused more attention on the cam timing durin the build.
rs250nut
04-06-2012, 17:37
At the moment the ignition timing is standard, I have played about with timing before at much lower boost, yet to try it at circa 24psi:scared: I have focused more attention on the cam timing durin the build.
Even more reason to make it adjustable then as you may need to pull a bit of timing to prevent it from knocking at high boost:)
So next on the list was to sort out the rough as a dogs arse engine bay, If it was down to me to be honest I would have just not bothered but my mate dany is uber anal when it comes to things like this:wasntme: I mentioned in passing that I wasn't going to bother giving it a lick of paint, when I came back out to work on the car a few hours later he had "preped" one of the turetts:laugh: The cheeky sod!!
This was the bay with almost everything removed and the bits that were staying masked up. (I wasn't going to get paint on my nearly new £220 servo:disagree:) If you look closely you can see the scars from the small brush I had with a telegraph pole(tungy drivers side arch:dearme:) and also the scar from the little incident with a BMW. (passenger side bonnet hinge:dearme:)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/baystripped.jpg
Like I said to be fair this shell has had a hard life, you can also see lots of rust if you look closely:crap:.
Once I started to pick away at things the extent of the rust was more than first thought(as is always the case):(
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/rust.jpg
A few plates later and plenty of zinc oxide primer and afterwards lashings of POR 15 and seam sealer and all was well again........for a few years at least:wasntme:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/rustsorted.jpg
I then set about cleaning the whole engine bay ready for prep, jet washed it then went over every panal with thinners then began to prep it all, considering I had never picked up sandpaper before not to mention a spray gun it actually came out ok minus a few bits where dumb ass me went over fresh paint with the compressor line:crap:
Anyway it sort of looked ok at a glance so I was happy with it:laugh:
I also took the time to prep and paint all the engine bay brackets in POR 15 as they were also starting to look a bit orange.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/baypainted.jpg
I also decided that my willy wheels were looking a bit scruffy so sent them off and my strut brace to be powder coated for a bargin price:cool:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/willywheels.jpg
Next on the list was to build the motor:smokin:
Andyturbo!
04-06-2012, 21:17
Fantastic read so far fella :agree:
Nad-5GTT
04-06-2012, 21:37
Enjoying the read so far, get on with the rest come on:D
gttjames
05-06-2012, 22:53
looking good, keep it up
So at last it was time to build the motor:) I won't pretend that I wasn't a little concerned that I had never built an engine before especially given the fact I was planning on running to most (not to some I know) a considerable amount of boost:devil:
Given the amount I had spent on parts I was already at the point where the mrs (if she ever found out what I had spent;)) would probably still to this day use two house bricks on the family jewles:disagree:
So it needed to be built right, I took the time to read up on as much as I could beforehand and also bugging the wise man with plenty of questions:p
To be honest the haynes manual was a big help I pretty much just follwed it from start to finish.
this is the crank in place with the bottom part of the mains also and the crank seal.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/crankinplace.jpg
This was in the living room checking the liner protrusion, I checked all the new liners and some re-conditioned ones I had and they were all within 0.2 mm of each other and when it came to stepping them this was virtually impossable as they were all the same, so I took the wisemans advise and just threw then in in any old order;)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/checkingpistonlinerprotrusion.jpg
This was the new pistons fitted to the rods (I left that to the engineer to do;)) along with the rings fitted with the caps and nuts, also the new liners and a few sets of liner seals.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/ringsfitted.jpg
Pistons fitted inside liners:)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pistonsfittedtoliners-1.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pistonsfittedtoliners2-1.jpg
I then fitted the pistons to the block:) making sure as I went the engine would turn over nice and smoothly, i used lashing if engine assembly lube
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pistonsandlinersfittedtotheblock.jpg
Next on the list was the cam and vernia:cool:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/cam.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/verniapulltfitted.jpg
The cam followers had been checked by an engineer to ensure they are usable, as I wasn't paying £30 odd each or what ever it is from Renault nowadays:disagree:
I didn't bother fitting the sump just yet as I wanted to re-seat all the valves in the cylinderhead and get the head and cam timing sorted first:)
Next on the list was to fit the valve springs to the cylinder head, whist I was at it I re-seated all the valves and replaced the valve stem seals. looking back I wish I just hadn't bothered with stem seals at all:crap:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/09052011229.jpg
Valve seat
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/09052011230.jpg
Valve
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/09052011233.jpg
Then I set about fitting the cylinder head to the block along with a uprated headgasket and new 12.9 tensile headbolts:)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/shiney.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/headfitted.jpg
Next item on the list was the oil pump, having checked the old internals they were just on the edge of the tolorance limit, so I purchased a pump re-furb kit.:agree:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/newoilpumpinternals.jpg
Then once the pump was fitted to the block the next task was to get my head around the cam timing, how it all worked and indeed how to do it. As I understood it cam timing could make a huge difference to the overall performance of engine, and I had a decision to make when it came to advancing the timing or retarding it, if I had a T25 then I probably would have either timed it up to 112 degrees or maybe a slight little bit of advance by around 2 degrees, but I have a T28 and coupled with the bp285 shaft I decided that given the 12 second goal I wanted the powerband to be nice and high up the revs, I have never really been bothered about having to rev a c1j either so I settled on retarding the timing by 4degrees to 116 dergees.
I invested in a dail guage and a mag stand, printed off the RTOC guide on cam timing, read up as much I could online about how to do it then set about the task one evening in the garage.:scared:
Basically I took three readings then worked out the average, then took another three readings and did the same again, then took another three readings and did the same then worked out the average from the final three readings. To my suprise it came in at 112degrees:eek: I then repeated the process a further three times and came out with pretty much the same answer everytime.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/02062011323.jpg
Once I started to play around with the vernia I was suprised at how difficult and time consuming the task of cam timing actually was, I literally must have spent about 4/5 hours on this alone, given the importance of it I was happy to spend as much time as it took to get it how I wanted it or as close to as possable.:coffee:
did you manage to achieve the 116 you were after? :-)
did you manage to achieve the 116 you were after? :-)
Sounds familiar ...
Oushhhh. Its a good thread bud. I well wanna do all this to my car lol. :)
Sounds familiar ...
Everything sounds familiar, to you wise men......;)
And yes coops I did manage to hit 116 in the end.
Cracking thread!
I love reading this one. Keep up the good work :)
TNT ANDY
13-06-2012, 06:54
Sounds familiar ...
is 116 the optimum timing on a 285 / T28 set-up? I'm going to be doing mine in-situ next week?
is 116 the optimum timing on a 285 / T28 set-up? I'm going to be doing mine in-situ next week?
It's debateable, the main reason I decided on this figure was because for the Q/M it's all about peak hp and if you time your cam so the power band is high up the revs this can "sometimes boost peak hp".
Some people have had good results doing the oppsite and advancing the timing, your c1j is obviously very different to mine, if you have standard compression and efi (mappable ignition??) for track driving/ b road fun you might be better of advancing the timing.
All i can say regards my set up is i don't hit full boost till 4.2k rpm and to be fair it is fairly flat below 3k but i was expecting that. After 4k it's fairly bonkers and seems to want to keep going beyond 7k rpm.
nice work phil
scoff...................120 would be nice, squeak the boost once the engines bedded in and hit a higher terminal...........unless you weren't referencing my 1/4 mile antics in which case......eh?! :D
Once I was happy with the cam timing it was just a case of bolting everything toghether ready to put back in the car, i think you will all agree this is by far the best bit:smokin:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/blockbuilt.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/clutchandboxfittedandreadytodropbackin.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/onitswaybackin.jpg
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/backhome.jpg
So the next thing on the list was plumbing the engine up and that bit that you look forward to with a slight bit of worry after building your first engine........the first start up:scared:
As i was planning on doing 400 miles with no boost i plumbed the engine up with no turbo initially.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/itstartedfirstturnofthekeyoncetheleadswereonthecor rectway.jpg
I Blanked off an old exhaust housing and blocked off the turbo oil feed from the block with a wheel bolt;)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/14052011238.jpg
Well the first start up went rather well (once i had got the ignition leads on in the correct firing order) Before i fired her up, i checked and double checked the valve clearances made sure the oil and coolant levels were correct, made sure i had fuel and spark and the battery was fully charged.
The plan was to run the engine at 2.5k rpm for 10 minuits to bed the new cam in, turn it off leave it over night then re-tourq the head and re-check the valve clearances, change the oil, top up the coolant, put the rest of the car back toghether then get it MOT'd :yeah:
I only managed to run it for 6 minuits as for some reason (I was to find this out at santa pod) the temp sat on the third line and wouldn't drop down at all:scratch:.
Once mot time came around this was the first time I was to drive the car on the road with the new lump, the plan was to work the engine through the rev range taking it up to 3k and letting it rev down on overun then 4k so on and so fourth, was quite painfull to be honest as with no turbo it really was flat as a fart and I was wincing everytime I was taking the revs up:wasntme:
Anyway it passed the mot first time:cool: with the only advisory being the jacking points, they were really quite bad to honest but mr mot man is a very freindly chap, plus he was going to the retro car show that was on at pod the same weekend as the rtoc pod day, he did mention that come the next mot he would like them sorted;)
I was driving home with a case of cheshire cat syndrome looking and sounding like a tool as I was taking it up to 7k rpm by this point with no turbo going nowhere fast making lots of noise:ashamed:
The next day I put 200 miles on it and again the day after only issue being the temp liked to rise whist sat in traffic, on the move it would drop down nicely, couldn't fathom it out as the fan switch wiring was fine the fan had kicked in in the garage and the switch was a bran new genuine renault item.......the coolant was blead up probably around 20 times also:wasntme:
Then I was to fit the turbo and all the rest of the gubbins:D
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/259108_2192109889312_5512065_o.jpg
Got it insured and taxed and by this point the rtoc pod day was in 7 days time, the plan was to have it ready by then and set up with some reasonable boost.......best laid plans and all that:wasntme: The other small issue was that my other half was about fit to burst, she was a month off her due date but twins normally always come early so i knew i was cutting it fine, to be honest i was praying they would hold on untill after the rtoc pod day, they were officially grounded before they were even born:laugh:
Good thread mate :) The first time you dial a cam in its a nightmare, took me a full day to suss it out!
TNT ANDY
13-06-2012, 12:51
C
It's debateable, the main reason I decided on this figure was because for the Q/M it's all about peak hp and if you time your cam so the power band is high up the revs this can "sometimes boost peak hp".
Some people have had good results doing the oppsite and advancing the timing, your c1j is obviously very different to mine, if you have standard compression and efi (mappable ignition??) for track driving/ b road fun you might be better of advancing the timing.
All i can say regards my set up is i don't hit full boost till 4.2k rpm and to be fair it is fairly flat below 3k but i was expecting that. After 4k it's fairly bonkers and seems to want to keep going beyond 7k rpm.
Thanks for that, I'll have a word with Scoff as he's mapped mine once and he'll be re mapping after I've.adjusted the cam.
The engine was built, the turbo was plumbed up, the RTOC pod day tickets were purchased, everything was good to go:D
Aside from the fact I had done zero miles with the turbo attached:crap: The main issue with this was that should my other half go into labour I would need to return home sharpish, and if disaster was to strike and I was to break something and then she went into labour I would have been at the mercy of the AA when it came to getting me home quickly:disagree:
Luckly one of my mates agreed to lend me his recovery truck for the weekend:D What an absolute star!! So I bunged him £50 and enough stella to sink a very large ship:laugh:
All that was left to do was to pack the car load it onto the truck the night before then travle down on the friday.......well the car had other ideas, the battery decided to give up the ghost as I was about to load it onto the truck, only issue was I didn't think to check the most obviouse thing first:ashamed: I was pulling everything apart convinced that I had either melted something or not put something back on correctly, posted a thread up on here then checked it half an hour later and someone said "have you checked the battery?" bunged a new bat on and hey presto she fired:smokin: good old RTOC!
The journy down was rather sedate aside from the trucks massivly loud air horn, me and my bro didn't half have some fun with that!!:cooter:
We arrived pitched our tent, then went round to get a plot next to the strip
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/podday2011-1.jpg
I think you will agree nothing quite like a load of C1j's warbling at full chat to get you motivated:smokin: the most outstanding cars of the day for noise were by far scoff and glenns cars, scoffs sounds like a fighter jet flying past:cool:
So I fired the raider up and let her warm up then took her for a gental drive around with some boost, only 8psi but it had been so long even that felt great.
The plan was to do a few runs at this boost levle and then slowly start to wind it up, even with only 8psi the car managed a 94mph terminal speed:eek: I didn't even get a terminal speed like that years ago at 15psi on a t2 turbo, so I knew the lump was performing well and if I could get the carb right I was on for a decent time/terminal speed, the aim was for a 105mph terminal just enough for an honast 200hp.
So as the boost was slowly going up and up the car was getting quicker and quicker, then at 17psi for some reason it started to bog down quite heavily on the launch and inbetween gear changes:crap: I couldn't get a clean run in for love nor money:(
The carb spec at this point was:-
120 main
0.9a/c
1.4mm second stage
2mm needle valve
standard venturi
My first thoughts were the needle valve, changed this back to a 1.7mm and it made the lauches better but i was still getting really bad bogging down between gears:mad:#
It was very rich at that boost with that spec so I started to up the boost further to see if this would cure it, no joy:sad2:
I hit 22psi and the car was actually fueling reasonably well it was at 11.7 afr at WOT with no det of no signs of the flote emptying:) just the horrable bogging down:dearme:
Then before I knew it I was out of time:cry: having only managed a 100mph terminal speed and from memory a 13.5. Even tho this was the best terminal speed i had ever achived and a P.B I was actually a bit gutted as I knew I wouldn't be able to make it down for the rest of the summer and the car definatly had more in it:crap:
Whilst in the campsite the next morning my bro suggested that we should have another crack and stay for the rwyb on the saturday, after about 5 seconds thought I agreed.;)
I will let you know how I got on in the next post:p
Romil Davda
14-06-2012, 12:12
LOL... Loving this thread mate, keep it coming ;)
kentraider
14-06-2012, 17:27
loving this thread....really gets ur attention....i know u both had a good nites kip as u spotted the terry hearne bedchairs....an the trusty old bivvy :-):-):-)..i hope u crack the twelve buddy too ;-);-)
Good write up Phil! Are you and Josh heading the pod day this year?
Good write up Phil! Are you and Josh heading the pod day this year?
Yes, all being well, Josh has himself a nice sliver phase 1 now also, I'm sure you have already seen some pics. Plus I have made one or two small changes to the raider.
Looking forward to it, thinking about going down on the Saturday and camping ready for the Sunday.
You?
Was that the pod day that was really hot? My van done about 3 clean runs and bogged down for the rest when changing into third. Never really found out what caused it.
Was that the pod day that was really hot? My van done about 3 clean runs and bogged down for the rest when changing into third. Never really found out what caused it.
Yes Brigsy that was the day cause I got chronic sunburn and was in a world of pain! :dearme:
Yes Brigsy that was the day cause I got chronic sunburn and was in a world of pain! :dearme:
That's what you get for being ginger!! :cooter:
My pod tan was pretty cool, sock lines and an amazing t-shirt tan!:laugh:
So after deciding that I was going to stay for RWYB the next day, the bivvy was packed away and the plot from the day before was free so we slotted in the truck, then I went to sign on.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/pod2007-1.jpg
The plan was to try the re-jet the spare standard carb and see if this made any differance,
I jetted it as follows
120 main
0.9 A/C
1.4mm second stage
1.7 needle valve
Once I was all ready to have a run one of the backyard lads pointed out that my slicks probably had a little to much air in, so I borrowed a tyre pressure guage (cheers Dave) and dropped them down to 6psi.
I had noticed the previouse day that again the coolant temps were getting higher than normal, sitting on the third line and not coming down, found the problem to be the bran new genuine renault fan switch:rolleyes: so I had to bridge the connections with a small bit of wire when I needed the fan to come in, the day was pretty much the same as the one before and was baking hot, to say it got fairly tostey in the car was an understatement, as I had the heater on full pelt also:wasntme:
So I lined up for my first run, gave it some welly off the line and I could instantly feel the slicks gripping more with less air in:cool: no bogging down then when I changed to fourth I heard an almighty pop and lost all power, not to worry tho it was only the boost hose popping off the plenum:wasntme: still on the launch I did a 1.91 60ft and ran a 13.4 but with only 94mph (cheers boost hose) but on a posative note the bogging down was gone:D
By this time the dredded que's had started to form so it was almost an hour before I got my next run in, fluffed the launch but ran cleanly the whole run:cool:
When I parked up afterwards I asked my bro what the terminal speed was, he casually said 105mph.................:smokin::smokin::smokin::co ol:
I was well happy with that!
It was still running slightly rich so I upped the boost back up to 22psi and joined the cue for another go.
I knew that with a good launch I might just drop into the 12's so I was sat on the line trying to keep myself focused:ashamed: the lights went to green off I went, felt good, then when changing to fourth the dredded bogging down reared it's ugly head again:mad::mad:
On the plus side the terminal speed had gone up again to 106mph:)
Joined the cue again, lined up next to a skyline that had been running 10's all day, so on the line I let him go before I went for it, the launch was rubbish:disagree: but with the help of a little bit of flat shifting the car ran cleanly and did a 13.2 @106.67mph it was still running a little rich so I decided to up the boost a little more:devil:
I was also going to get the slicks nice and warm this time to try and help with the launch, so I gave it what was for me anyway quite a large burnout to get some heat into the tyres. then whist sat on the line the guy stood next to me gave me a clear signal to kill the engine:scared: opened my door and he said "you have what looks like a large pool of oil under your car"
Gutted:cry:
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=121&pictureid=4339
So I was pushed off the line and out of the gates at the side, it reminded me of being thrown out of a nightclub:wasntme:
I opened the bonnet to find the turbo oil feed adaptor had snapped:eek: good job the guy on the line spotted that really, with no other oil feed adaptors to hand that was it racing over.
I was a little gutted that I didn't get a 12 second run but I knew that the car was making enough power (just) and if I could have launched it better it probably would have dropped into the 12's.:)#
So off home I went after a awesome weekend, only wish I could do it more often.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=121&pictureid=5134
Best run of the weekend, still quite a few more updates to come to take it upto the present day;)
DaveMayGTT
15-06-2012, 11:56
This is passing the time at work very nicely, excellent read!
phil, what sort of slicks are you using? drag or track? and what size?
I'm tempted to have a crack with some this season if I can and get my times down a bit :cool:
FFS I've been on the edge of my seat, checking this thread for weeks, waiting for the result.... And you didn't even get a 12s pass... :mad::mad::mad:
Good work though mate, good luck for the next outing :agree:
That's what you get for being ginger!! :cooter:
My pod tan was pretty cool, sock lines and an amazing t-shirt tan!:laugh:
Don't listen to this pleb. I'm not a ginger for you all to know. I just got left to sizzle whilst he practiced his crap driving. Couldn't get a 12 in a bugatti veyron :cooter:
Ashy, not half as gutted as I was......;)still, I will be updating the thread soon enough with a few small changes that should hopefully do the trick, plus the track at this years pod day is suppost to be a million times better so fingers crossed.;)
Coops, they are Mickey T's drag slicks on 14" steelies, to be fair they are probably past their best quite old, as many moons ago they were scoff's then haz's then Robin's and now mine! They are still good for a high 1.8 /low 1.9 60ft tho, i will get the exact size and post it up for you next time I'm in the garage.:)
With your kind of power slicks would see your times literlly tumble!!;)
Don't listen to this pleb. I'm not a ginger for you all to know. I just got left to sizzle whilst he practiced his crap driving. Couldn't get a 12 in a bugatti veyron :cooter:
:laugh::laugh:
We will see how you get on this year Billy big bolloks!!
I know man, I really want to try and crack 11's but i'm dubious about the gearbox.
don't worry on the slick size, 14" is too small, wont fit over my brakes so I need 15" rims min, I will sort something.
perhaps some old track slicks may at least improve me a bit, get sub 2 60ft, best so far is 2.07 iirc on the R888's
Markey Mark (BD)
15-06-2012, 15:38
I know man, I really want to try and crack 11's but i'm dubious about the gearbox.
don't worry on the slick size, 14" is too small, wont fit over my brakes so I need 15" rims min, I will sort something.
perhaps some old track slicks may at least improve me a bit, get sub 2 60ft, best so far is 2.07 iirc on the R888's
Wouldn't use track slicks mate, there too hard and wouldn't offer much more grip then your R888's
If you still want to use 15's i'd use the softest compound R888 or similar you can get or swap the brakes for standard size and fit some proper drag slicks on there ;)
Nice little read up here Phil, sure you'll get that 12 you got the ewngine for it :agree:
I would look into new set of tyres mate, i noticed a huge difference when i got my newer ones few years ago (they were still used but newer the my old MT's)
not sure I can be bothered swapping brakes back and forth tbh.
next step I guess is to try the R888's at silly low pressures perhaps
anyway this isn't the right place for me to mull over this but cheers for the pointers :agree:
brilliant write up:niceone:
keep the updates coming...and good luck on the strip chasing the elusive 12's :D:burnrubber:
allanr5gtt
15-06-2012, 19:11
loving this thread....really gets ur attention....i know u both had a good nites kip as u spotted the terry hearne bedchairs....an the trusty old bivvy :-):-):-)..i hope u crack the twelve buddy too ;-);-)
terry hearne bedchairs....an the trusty old bivvy :agree:
Top darts great write up my old friend
I would look into new set of tyres mate, i noticed a huge difference when i got my newer ones few years ago (they were still used but newer the my old MT's)
That was the plan mark, just not keen on the price new, at the moment I just can't justify it for once/twice a year, I have been on the look out for a while for a decent set second hand but nothing came up, apart from the ones I have now.
Now it was time to sit back and ponder on my next move, 5 days after the rtoc pod day my mrs woke me at 5:30 am to inform me that her waters had broke:eek::eek::eek:
24 HRS later I was a very tired but proud day of two baby girls:D
Although I love being a dad one thing I found out very quickly was how little time I now had to indulge in my hobbies. :(
So aside from around 100 miles or so of b-road fun the only trip I managed out the rest of the summer was down to the pod to watch the backyard lads and mark in the outlaw shootout, had a good deal of fun on both the journy there and home in the raider. Their were a few points durin the day were I wished I had brought my stuff so I could have done a few runs:crap:
Whist there I ended up having a chat to Rick, a guy from manchester who used to own gibbos old electric blue O.E GTT, he mentioned he had a frontmount that he wanted rid of, so we exchanged numbers and a week or so later I purchased it off him:) for a decent price, it came with a load of pipework and also he threw in a campus bottom pully and altbelt:agree:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/fittingnewcooler-1.jpg
I have no idea if the cooler is off a sepcific car or is a universal jobby, but it was certainly going to do a better job compared to my K-tec double cap cooler. i had a job fitting it into place, as you can see I have had to remove more or less all of the crossmember and a good chunk of the headlight panel:scared:
The picture above is just as I was trial fitting it and the brakets/pipework.
The pipe work that came with the cooler was way to thick and the silicone was also red, so I sold that on e-bay and purchased some new pipework more suited size wise to the engine bay:)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/cooler2.jpg
The pipe run I decided on was blatently copied from djinuk's front mount set up;)
I liked the way it fitted behind the bumper and grill and i could still keep the fogs in the front bumper
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/cooler3.jpg
Note the intersting and rather pikey use of a bucket handle chopped in half :ashamed:
Just have a few ajustments to make to the pipework around the alternator/plenum as I can't seem to get rid of the kink in the plenum silicone joint.
I have also given the car a full service and insured it for another year, I have also purchased a set of jacking points off Mike so all thats left to do is get my mate to fit the new jacking points for me (really need to learn how to weld;)) get it MOT'D and chuck 6 months tax on it and it will be back on the black stuff.
I have a few other jobs I want to do also before the RTOC pod day#
Raise the torsion bar an inch or so
Change the fuel lines front to back (looking a bit orange)
Fully underseal it
Spray the front bumper/grill as I have ended up making a few cuts for the cooler and pipework.
And thats it!:) We are up to the current day, I'm hoping to get the jacking points and mot sorted in the next few weeks, work is very slow at the moment (I'm a self employed driving instructor) that coupled with the fact that due to us having no child care and my mrs going back to work I can only work 3 days a week the other 4 days a week I have the twins to look after as the other half is a nurse and works 12hr shifts. So this means that both cash and time are in short supply at the moment:cry:
Still the main thing is I have managed to keep hold of the raider, the last thing I wanted was to have to sell it with the words "new baby twins force sale!!":laugh: :laugh:
That is one sexy massive front mount. I want one!
TNT ANDY
16-06-2012, 15:49
That's a big ********** cooler:agree:
kentraider
18-06-2012, 00:42
terry hearne bedchairs....an the trusty old bivvy :agree:
lol...sometimes ive caught as much next to my car in bivvy as on the bank :cry: :D
:laugh:Well I have been doing a few of the planned jobs on the raider and also one or two unplanned ones:scared: in preperation for the santa pod in september.
First of all I raised the rear torsion bar up a few inches as it was so low that when the coilovers were lowered to match it was more or less undrivable so I took the coilovers up to a height that was ok to use on the road then ajusted the rear to suit, the bars practically glided out as the last time I played with them they were cleaned and well greased;) the rear arch before hand sat below the lip on the wheels:eek:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/33.jpg
I also needed to change a few brake lines at the back I made them my self and used my mates flaring tool, fitted them then when i was bleeding the brake the rear bias valve literally shat it's self and just pissed brake fluid out:dearme: this is the only part of the braking system that hadn't been replaced:rolleyes:
The price of them new is to be honest a joke but I just had to bite the bullet and flex the plastic and buy one, fitting wasn't excatly something i would like to do again as the bolts holding the valve to the braket were all rotten, I ended up smacking a 10mm socket onto them and thankfully they started to move, then mole grips and a bit of heat dit the rest;)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/32.jpg
I just need to set up the rear brake bias now, one of my calipers was also sticking on so i have free'd it off and now my plan is just ajust it up untill the rear brakes lock under braking then just back it off slowly untill they don't when i jump on the pedal, i might be able to sweet talk mr MOT man into using his brake tester thingy to get them bang on, we will see.
Next thing that needed to be sorted were my rotten jacking points, from the welding i have had done in the past i should have known how much more rust there is other than what you could see. I can't weld myself so i have had to pay a mate to do the work, and all i can say is he has needed to do an awefull lot more welding than planned:cry:
This was the drivers side jacking point once the jacking point had been removed, you can also see that the rot had gone down the inner sill a few feet and also the drivers side floorpan was a mess:disagree:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/22.jpg
so part of the inner sill had to be replaced, a 3" wide 12" long section of the drivers side floor pan, also up into the drivers side wheel arch, as well as the actual jacking point itself.
Inner sill replaced and zinc 182'd
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/25.jpg
Outer sill patch that we had to remove to get to the inner replaced, still needed taking back and painting up in the picture.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Project%2012%20seconds/26.jpg
My mate spent more or less the whole day just sorting out the sill and floorpan so he had something to actually weld the jacking point to:eek:
So today he's on with taking back all the weld's and zinc priming then actually fitting the new renault jacking points, so hopefully next week it should be ready to go for an MOT and it will finally be on the road:smokin:
To be honest I have been getting a bit miffed off with the amount I have spent on it and I haven't even driven the thing more than 500 meters, also the other half isn't very happy with the amount of time I have been spending on it either:laugh: been properly in the dog house for the last few days:coffee:
Nad-5GTT
07-08-2012, 21:19
Good work going on there, looking forward to seeing this going up the strip.
Just literally come back in from the garage, all the welding is done and I now have new solid jacking points, I have zinc primed all the fresh metal then gave it a few coats of POR 15 chassis coat, the por goes over the top of the zinc really well! Goes off solid as a rock!
Got all my interior back in gave everything a good check over all the lights and stuff. Everything seems tickty boo and I even managed to clean the interior/glass the lot, looks quite tidy in there now.
Sorted a few loose ends in the engine bay, just waiting on some splash guard clips to arrive and it's mot time on Thursday :smokin:
Tony Walker
07-08-2012, 22:47
:D looking great :agree:
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=121&pictureid=6722
Well the 5 now has 12 months mot and 6 months tax on it, it's even clean!:wasntme:
Gave it a run out last night, had a few mishaps, the first one was definatly a lucky escape:scared:
The fuel outlet from my fpr is a different size to the fuel inlet on the carb, so in my infinite wisdom I chucked some insulation tape round the tail on the carb so the fuel hose would grip it, :crap: what a mistake that was!
It's been fine for 2k odd miles then last night the worst happened, it came off and spat fuel all over the turbo and exhaust manifold!!:eek::eek:
However I was lucky as the engine was cold so the fuel didn't ignite, it smoked a bit but didn't ignite........Someone was most definatly looking over the five for sure. I think I fire exstinguisher is definatly my next purchase;)
Also my carb started playing funny ****ers also and just in an instant went mega rich, so still got a few issues to iorn out before pod. The new cooler seemed to perform well, my carb top was posativly frozen on the way home. Managed about 100 miles or so. Was just good to be back on the black stuff.
Also had a play with a Ferrari Enzo:devil: never seen one in the flesh before, he gave us a few little blips and showed us how epicly quick they are, I was like a Cheshire cat!
The fuel outlet from my fpr is a different size to the fuel inlet on the carb, so in my infinite wisdom I chucked some insulation tape round the tail on the carb so the fuel hose would grip it, :crap: what a mistake that was!
Yo Phil if you've still got your old regulator kicking about you can unscrew one of the fittings from it and screw that into the carb so your 8mm pipe fits properly.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1532&pictureid=4962
Use the fitting out the old reg on carb top :agree:
Sold both my old regs that I had:crap: should be able to get a tail to match, anybody know the thread size of the tail on the carb?
Duncan Grier
10-08-2012, 14:30
You should be able to buy what you need to solve this from the likes of pirtek who do a load of fitments like this - well barbed
DG
My bro is a compressor engineer so he should be able to get me one. I should have done it in the first place really, lesson learned;)
I think ive got one, ill have a look tomorrow and if its there you can have it foc mate :)
Big Steve - Raider
10-08-2012, 17:20
What is it with all these beautiful Raider's on Williams wheels..... Giving me the HORN!? :laugh:
Looks fabulous mate!! :niceone:
Pictures polish turds! It's a bit rough in the flesh, probably three different shades of 449 and the screen surround is shocking:ashamed:
If I wasn't spending all my dosh on the engine then maybe I would be able to afford some paint, needs a full hit really.
Still it looks ok, from at least 20 meters:wasntme:
Cheers for the compliment anyways;)
Its looking good. I swear I used to see this car parked up in Leyton, East London! Is it the same car? As I remember the Nocturnal sticker across the windscreen.
I put that nocturnal developments sticker on probably 6 years ago, the car hasn't been near London since I have owned it (8 years:eek:) so unless the cheeky old French slags been having a few secret nights out I doubt it.:laugh: Raiders with black willys (sounds so wrong) seem to be quite common now.
I know those nocturnal stickers made their way onto a fair few cars over the years.
cracking read, will follow closely, good work.
Well, 7 days to go before pod, I'm really looking forward to it, going to be camping on the Saturday, and having a buchers round some dubs.
Touch wood:coffee: The raider is more or less ready:eek: normally I'm changing a headgasket at 3am the morning before setting off or something similar going off the last few years:laugh:
I must have finally got rid of the old nocturnal developments last minuit Charlie syndrome:wasntme:
I have even managed to clean and polish it:eek:
Hopefully with a well prepared track a few more psi and my new front mount, if it stays in one piece, that 12 second target might be on the cards:smokin:
I'm just hoping the weathers ok and we get a few more rtoc runners on the day.
Markey Mark (BD)
25-08-2012, 17:22
Good job mate, can't see why a 12 wouldn't be on the cards lets hope its a good one! :agree:
Well, looks like the project still isn't finished:cry:
Didn't manage a 12 At the pod day yesterday.
I ran another 13.2 But with only 104Mph terminal speed:disagree: last year I was closer to 107, but I had a smaller cooler and boost pipe run, so my thinking is I have lost a few Psi over the new cooler.
My fisher price actuator won't allow me to run any more boost, I was just about at 22psi at the top of fourth gear, in first/second/third it was more like 19/20psi:(
On a posative note i managed a 1.88 60ft.
I really need 110mph over the line, so my plans are a -34 actuator for starters then a solid 25psi should see me up around that power level.
Curse of the 13's:laugh:
Little bit of an overdue update,
Scoffs rolling road day was a good eye opener as I was slightly disappointed with the 209hp and 192ft/lbs that it peaked at, the graph shows the power actually starts to tail off after 6.5k rpm, I suspect this had a lot to do with the fact I'm still using the standard down pipe, also I must mention the above power was with 24psi and afr's of 11.6 so maybe a little more boost would see a good rise in power as the afr's lean a little.
Here's a pic of the old dog on the rollers
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=121&pictureid=7295
Other than actually enjoy using it for the first time in a long time I haven't really touched under the bonnet, apart from a few boost hose issues it's been fine, taken plenty of abuse and still seems to idle uber quetly for a c1j hardly any tappet noise and it still starts on the button with no choke even after a longish lay up:agree:
So my plans are a larger downpipe, measure and find out the exact turbo specs, then run a few more lb boost and see where that gets me, would love to do a comparison run on the rollers with the only change being the downpipe just to see if it makes much difference. Fundage is a huge issue at the moment, working part time and spending on the five just doesn't go hand in hand! :crap:
I need to get Christmas out of the way then I will crack on in the new year with achieving that 12 second goal on an uber tight budget ;)
TNT ANDY
17-11-2012, 17:25
Phil - that's pretty much exactly how mine behaved on the rollers, that was on 95 ron though.
Get a bigger down pipe on that should make a difference, depending on your turbo spec of course.
Good work.
[quote=TNT ANDY;300799]Phil - that's pretty much exactly how mine behaved on the rollers, that was on 95 ron though.
Get a bigger down pipe on that should make a difference, depending on your turbo spec of course.
Good work.[/quote
Did you get to the bottom of why it wasn't making the power you expected? I know you had the issue with the cam/followers but was anything else at all suspect?
Long overdue update:)
Now that work has finally picked up and I have some more wonga in my pocket (shhhhhh don't tell the mrs:laugh:) and spring has finally remembered to turn up:agree: I'm going to crack on with a few bits on the raider this weekend coming.
Following on from this thread
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=30148
and my expectedly low power figures I have got my mitts on a gorgeous bms downpipe and plan to fit this weekend along with measure (or try to) and find out the exact specs of my T28.
Question is can anybody tell me exactly what and how I should be measuring with regards the wheel/trim sizes on the blower?
Wow what an awesome project, kind of inspires me to go all out on mine but I should maybe stick to my original plan :confused: :laugh:
Anyway look forward to some updates and you getting that 12 second 1/4 :agree:
Well, it's been a long weekend, pulled the car out of the garage, washed it taxed it fitted the bms downpipe, took it for a spin and it appeared more lively, so today i went to see scoff to do some power runs like for like to see if the bms had made a difference, and low and behold it did with exactly the same boost as before it made 215hp 202ft/lbs at 24 psi compared to the 201hp 190ft/lb's it made with the standard downpipe.
So it was quite clear that the low compression was costing power as i wanted 230hp, so we advanced the ignition by 4 degree, and knocked to boost back down to 22psi it was instantly better, made 210ft/lb's at only 5k then blew a boost hose, no det at all, then turned to boost up to 23psi and had another go.
Then got a strange missfire followed by a clattering top end:( checked the push rods and all was well, comp tested it and cylinder 1 was down to just 6 bar, then did a leak down test and it was blowing air out of the crankcase on number 1, so a suspected ring land failure of gudgeon pin issue, will obviously find out when it comes apart.
Gutted to be fair as it was looking like if we could have got the boost back upto 24lb with 4 degrees of advance it would have made some good numbers and 12 seconds would have been on the cards for definate.
I'm now sat in the back of an AA truck on my way home, the joys!!! :wasntme:
Tony Walker
21-04-2013, 21:03
:( crappy luck mate :disagree: you gonna go for a slightly higher comp ratio?
Maybe, depends on exactly what's gone on once i get it apart, if it is a piston failure then the other three could also be at risk, the pistons were from cgb they weren't taribusi they were some random Turkish brand. So if i decide to change them then yes i will more than likely raise the compression.
Tony Walker
21-04-2013, 21:14
Hate the feeling of doubting somethings integrity. wish id used renault valves instead of my usual suppliers but i didnt think about it till it made the power it did and i regularly rev it to 7k.
Nottswoody
21-04-2013, 21:15
Bad luck there phil feel for you bud gutted..
Proper bad luck mate! Get some old standard comp pistons whacked in..
Interesting about the power difference with the bms downpipe, i felt that my van gained a fair bit of power when i fitted my big jim all in one jobby, the elbow must be pretty restrictive at that power level?? i noticed spool time was also miles better.
Red October
21-04-2013, 21:47
Just out of interest guys would a comp ratio of 7:5:1 on a t28/285 piper cam and allt the right other bits and bobs safely make 230bhp? what is the best big boost comp ratio?
Brigsy, that's exactly what scoff said regards the pistons;) and without doubt the turbo was in sooner than before, the graphs didn't help to prove it as on the rr day the boost was measured from the carb top and not the aei line, probably has taken 400 rpm off spool time. It responded really well to more boost also, like it could actually breath with the larger downpipe, definitely a worth while mod if you pushing for of 200hp.
Right now i really wished i had worked out my compression ratio, however the difference 4degree pf advance made was hugely evident, it made 10ft/lbs more and around 12 hp with 2psi less boost than before. You definitely need good knock detection when playing with timing not something i would recommend unless you 100% know what your doing.
TNT ANDY
22-04-2013, 06:59
[quote=TNT ANDY;300799]Phil - that's pretty much exactly how mine behaved on the rollers, that was on 95 ron though.
Get a bigger down pipe on that should make a difference, depending on your turbo spec of course.
Good work.[/quote
Did you get to the bottom of why it wasn't making the power you expected? I know you had the issue with the cam/followers but was anything else at all suspect?
Hi Phil - sorry, missed this some time ago, and the answer is simple.
I have totally rebuilt my engine now and put it back together and am making no more power, it seems that my turbo is maxed out, Looks like I need get me a bigger blower.
I'm sorry to hear about this phill. :cry:
Very interesting the effect the extra ignition had on your car. :agree:
Guess you've got to decided now do you pay extra for forged pistons or go for good quality oe pistons and use the diffence for some mappable ignition.
Nad-5GTT
22-04-2013, 10:06
Feel for you fella:crap: got to hand it to you lot though, these setbacks never seem to beat you just make you more determine :D
I think the fact that it's a low comp motor gives me some extra room to play with the ignition timing, so if i was to keep the motor low comp then maybe i could benefit from having mappable ignition, if i were to raise the compression i wouldn't have as much scope for advancing the ignition and mappable ignition might not be worth it.
When all said and done 4 degrees of advance at circa 22psi+ is quite a lot, hence why i saw the results i did.
I really need to pull it apart and find out for sure what's gone on. Would love some forged pistons and steel liners but budget is an issue, i may well be able to afford them over time but the other concern is if i invest in forge pistons and something lets me down and i melt one or something then that would be a tough pill to swallow.
I'm hoping it's a gudgeon pin issue as that may well be down to the fitting and would give me a little more confidence in the other pistons, i actually have three spare dished pistons and some bran new liners so a straight swap wouldn't cost me so much to do.
Either way it's all speculation until it's apart!:laugh:
Tony Walker
22-04-2013, 19:46
your low comp pistons still pressed in to the rod and piston floating?
I think with low comp or normal comp mappable ignition timing still has massive benefits along with some added safety.
I dont really get the whole low comp thing? i mean you make more power with higher compression.
Plus its allready a pretty low compression engine. Are there any compression figures out there for big power turbo cars? What compression do the civic people run? Whats Glenn running?
I Think either the gudgeon pin has come out and is hitting the liner, or some of the ringland has given up the ghost, standard pistons are known to not like much more than 24psi, been upwards of 25 once or twice but didn't make any more power with the low comp and standard downpipe.
The comp ratio was definitely where i went wrong when building the lump. So really i should sort it while it's all apart.
B18ftMOJO5
22-04-2013, 22:18
How long have you owned your raider.? Im sure ive seen its around blsckburn when i was younger.... kinda got me into 5s.
I'm in my 9th year, but I'm not from Blackburn, I'm from Oldham, been using it in an around Blackburn for around 2 years 3 years ago, if that makes any sense :laugh:
Currently living in Nelson;)
Here's a few pictures of last weekends efforts for any one who is interested
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130420_011.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130420_011.jpg.html)
Have to say the BMS downpipe is a work of art, fitted my k-tec exhaust like a glove:smokin:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130420_009.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130420_009.jpg.html)
Gave the old girls a good wash
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130420_012.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130420_012.jpg.html)
This is how the weekend finished off at Scoffs
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130421_004.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130421_004.jpg.html)
And this is how it sits now, workspace cleared and ready to go, just got to get stuck in and find out whats broke:cry:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130425_002.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130425_002.jpg.html)
Also for anyone who was wondering how you work out the trim of a turbo
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/2cei88n.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/2cei88n.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/2lv01as.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/2lv01as.jpg.html)
I couldn't work out mine as i need to invest in a set of calipers to measure properly.
B18ftMOJO5
25-04-2013, 17:27
No way u broke yours too. Cant believe it. Im getting scared to go to scoffs now. Lmao. Hope you get it sorted soon. Looking forward to seeing your car in the flesh.
Dave Reed
25-04-2013, 20:03
I Think either the gudgeon pin has come out and is hitting the liner, or some of the ringland has given up the ghost, standard pistons are known to not like much more than 24psi, been upwards of 25 once or twice but didn't make any more power with the low comp and standard downpipe.
The comp ratio was definitely where i went wrong when building the lump. So really i should sort it while it's all apart.
What makes u say that Phil? Mine was very low comp 7.2:1 if I remember correctly..
My original plan for the low comp was because of the nos and to build in some safety for the shocking ign map and crap carb :) lol.
If I knew I was eventually going efi then I would of raised the comp a little..
I just think i could have made the same power for a lot less boost, after all I'm only in need of an honest 220hp and a good launch with slicks for a 12 second pass.
The only reason i went low comp was that's how my engine was before i built it, and it always seemed to perform well all be it at much lower boost. I really need to invest in a set of calipers as that's the only reason i didn't work out the ratio, it must be fairly low comp to tolerate 4 degrees of advance at 22lb boost with no knock.
Dave Reed
25-04-2013, 20:39
I just think i could have made the same power for a lot less boost, after all I'm only in need of an honest 220hp and a good launch with slicks for a 12 second pass.
The only reason i went low comp was that's how my engine was before i built it, and it always seemed to perform well all be it at much lower boost. I really need to invest in a set of calipers as that's the only reason i didn't work out the ratio, it must be fairly low comp to tolerate 4 degrees of advance at 22lb boost with no knock.
True, but it's not a massive problem.. I certainly wouldn't go far as to say its where you went wrong with the build and let's face it everyone used to go low comp back in the day (and I'm not just talking about renaults).
Be interesting to see exactly what's failed.. Perhaps u wasn't getting away with 4degress lol
True, but it's not a massive problem.. I certainly wouldn't go far as to say its where you went wrong with the build and let's face it everyone used to go low comp back in the day (and I'm not just talking about renaults).
Be interesting to see exactly what's failed.. Perhaps u wasn't getting away with 4degress lol
Maybe so, Scoff has good ears tho;) whilst i was on my way to scoffs i blew a boost hose, stopped to sort it and after that the first time i gave it some stick i noticed the boost went upwards of 27psi for a split second, i was off the gas instantly then when i arrived i closed the bleed valve and went and did some testing an made sure the boost was holding 22lb and it was. Who knows maybe i caused some damage then although i was never at full throttle.
Either way I'm coming out of sulk mode now and the curiosity is starting to bite and i can't wait to also find out what's gone wrong;)
Nad-5GTT
26-04-2013, 04:53
either way I'm coming out of sulk mode now and the curiosity is starting to bite and i can't wait to also find out what's gone wrong;)
:laugh: we've all been in that mood with these cars once or twice, get her cracked open and share the mess with us :D
Well...........it's been a late one, I have taken the head off and discovered my issue, it appears a bit of a random one:crap:
Firstly i was greeted by this
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130501_001.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130501_001.jpg.html)
Then this
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130502_006.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130502_006.jpg.html)
So it would appear and going along with the small shards of metal i found in the combustion chamber that something has been bouncing around in there:(
Couldn'd figure out at first where the metal had come from, then found this
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130502_002.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130502_002.jpg.html)
Doesnt appear to be any piston to valve contact so i'm gussing that for whatever reason the valve guide just gave way:disagree:
Wow that's a really odd failing :scratch:
So what's the plan now strip it all done and check everything over or you going to risk it for a biscuit and chuck a new head on and see how it runs?
The head was completely standard, I have a bran new liner and a low comp piston spare, so I'm going to change that and a new set of big end bearings and put a new head on and see how it gets on. Will give the sump a good cleaning out and maybe run it for a few 100 miles with no turbo to try and catch any swarfe.
I can't get my head around what's actually caused it, i had that valve guide replaced a few years ago after dropping a valve. From the picture it looks a little like its come out of the head and slid down the valve stem and been smashed. I will have to compare it to the others but i don't think they stick out that much normally.
On a positive note all the cam followers are in a1 condition and the engine appears to have had a good tune and the plugs are good and no signs of det at all.
That's not too bad to put right then. :)
I guess the hardest part will be finding the time.
what is it with these cars every time you make a leap forward something pops up and you have to take a step back again. :cry:
That's not too bad to put right then. :)
I guess the hardest part will be finding the time.
what is it with these cars every time you make a leap forward something pops up and you have to take a step back again. :cry:
When i first saw the damage that's exactly what i thought, the lumps only done 3k since a full re-build and i was just starting to get the tune good for decent power and i get a nice random failure like this! :dearme:
I can see why people ditch the c1j, the thought has crossed my mind, but then i have to remind myself why I'm doing what I'm doing.
When i joined this club my mech knowledge was worse than poor, and 12 second c1j's were the benchmark, so the goal was to do the same on a self built lump, on a tight budget, to kind of show what i have learnt/picked up over the years.
Until the above has been achieved it will be a c1j under the bonnet, i might consider and engine conversion after that.
gttjames
02-05-2013, 16:09
When i first saw the damage that's exactly what i thought, the lumps only done 3k since a full re-build and i was just starting to get the tune good for decent power and i get a nice random failure like this! :dearme:
I can see why people ditch the c1j, the thought has crossed my mind, but then i have to remind myself why I'm doing what I'm doing.
When i joined this club my mech knowledge was worse than poor, and 12 second c1j's were the benchmark, so the goal was to do the same on a self built lump, on a tight budget, to kind of show what i have learnt/picked up over the years.
Until the above has been achieved it will be a c1j under the bonnet, i might consider and engine conversion after that.
:agree:
Slammed 66
02-05-2013, 16:34
When i joined this club my mech knowledge was worse than poor, and 12 second c1j's were the benchmark, so the goal was to do the same on a self built lump, on a tight budget, to kind of show what i have learnt/picked up over the years.
Until the above has been achieved it will be a c1j under the bonnet
That's inspirational right there :goodJob:
Great stuff Phil
Haha Phil used to think the carb top was the turbo. True story
Haha Phil used to think the carb top was the turbo. True story
I have even admitted it in the very first post on this thread;):coffee:
Wow definitely unlucky with a valve guide failing! New head/piston and it will be reet:agree:
Chin up bro we will both be in the 12s soon. No doubt!!
Done some more stripping down this evening, took the sump off (what a ****ty job that was:dearme:) pulled out the damaged piston and liner, i also found plenty of valve stem oil seals in the sump including the metal parts that go around the plastic, wish i had just not bothered with them in the first place now:disagree:
So I was shocked to find the big end shell had a little more scoring marks on it than i had excpected.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_024.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_024.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_019.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_019.jpg.html)
However they weren't deep scoring marks and the crank appears to be fine
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_013.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_013.jpg.html)
I also took apart the oil pump to see how my new internals have faired to some of the more experienced eyes on here.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_029.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_029.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_038.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_038.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_039.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_039.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130505_043.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130505_043.jpg.html)
Again although it has a few marks i think it will be fine. I did however notice that with regards to my oil pressure when the lump was running was that it wouls sit at 45psi then when i floored it the oil pressure would drop to 40/41psi then rise a little to 42/43psi and after a few pulls it would sometimes drop below 40psi for a few seconds before rising again. This is with a genuine filter and 10-60 fully synth oil using the standard oil cooler.
So the plan is to take my new head (when i get it) along with the piston i'm going replace the damaged one with and my oil pump to the machine shop for a pressure test and flatness check, to get the conrod bearing faces cleaned up and any work i can have done on the oil pump.
Stick the new piston and liner in along with a full set of big ends, new liner and rings for the piston also. wang it all back toghether with the new head then modify the timing sensor to i can maybe advance the ignition a little more than 4 degrees and try to get the boost upto 24psi again and see how it fairs on scoffs rollers power wise.
turbo ted
06-05-2013, 00:04
10-60 fully synthic oil might be the problem its to tin for c1j 10/40 part synthic is what you want really. oil temp would be lower and oil pressure would be higher with 10/40 oil;)
I remember reading a thread on here about oil grades and it was mentioned that 10-60 probably wasn't the best oil for a freshly built lump, due to the tighter tolerances i did use 10-40 for the first 400 miles in that time it was changed twice, since that it's had two oil changes both with 10-60 fully synth the lump has only done 3k.
once it's back up and running i will give 10-40 part synth a try and see how it gets on, it's also cheaper than the 10-60. :agree:
BluntyR5GTT
06-05-2013, 08:29
just a note i run 10/40 semi synth in mine and oil pressure is bang on, always seems fine temp wise etc, i just change it every 1k or so to keep it nice and fresh, probably overkill but nothing wrong with being safe
Ok, done some more investigating and it seems the valve guide has definitely come out of the head slid down the valve towards the head then been smashed as the valve has gone back up.
I had this guide replaced after cracking the original one a few years ago due to a dropped valve.
So answers on a postcard, has the guide not been fitted properly or is something like valve bounce to blame?
Obviously I have the piper valve springs fitted and when they are fully compressed the coils are quite close together but not touching. Just wondering with 7500rpm plus could they be going coilbound?
Here are a few pictures from the strip down
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130508_006.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130508_006.jpg.html)
This is the offending valve guide:mad:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130509_007.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130509_007.jpg.html)
And here are some marks I have noticed on the cylinder head, something tells me this isnt exactly ideal:crap:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130509_012.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130509_012.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130509_010.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130509_010.jpg.html)
It appears the spring seat has made the marks you can see above:disagree:
Ok guys, my donated previously un skimmed 73.5mm cylinder head is currently getting some love in the form of bead blasting, pressure testing, re-facing, and the valves and seats re-cut.
I also took my oil pump in to the engineers shop to see if there was anything they could do with it with regards to the scoring marks.
He quickly replied that they can get hold of a full bran new pump for £75 plus vat, great I thought, then I remember reading on here about how campus pumps were confused with gtt pumps.
I have spoken to them today and they said the "new" pump looks slightly different to the original one, but the rotor and all the other dimensions are the same.
I'm after as much info about these campus pumps so I can try and decide if I should use it or not. I have read the oil pump article but the pictures don't work so I know why a campus pump won't work but still can't spot the difference.
Campus oil pump here
http://www.renault4.co.uk/gordini-engine-rebuild/oil-pump-shaft-wear-large.jpg
Totally diferent to gt turbo ones. If I remember rightly less oil pressure in them as they don't need to feed an oil cooler and turbo.
That's great, so that pump is quite a bit different to the GT pump.
As I thought, do any other campus's run a pump that's similar to the gt one, or were all campus pumps the same?
As far as I'm aware campus pumps are all the same.
Did you fill pump with oil before refitting and check it flowed out of oil feed pipe to turbo before starting engine.
As far as I'm aware campus pumps are all the same.
Did you fill pump with oil before refitting and check it flowed out of oil feed pipe to turbo before starting engine.
Cheers, on my initial engine build I gained the oil pressure using an old dizzy drive and a drill...;)
I'm also concerned that cgb has new oil pumps on e-bay for £40 or so the picture looks like a gtt one, then the add says not for use on modified or race engines :laugh: makes me paranoid:crap:
Those are campus ones by the look of the pic.
Can see the two circles in the casing for the two viens.
Gt turbo ones have one big circle.
Cheers for your help:agree:
A few updates,
The oil pump was a campus pump they got hold of, so decided against it
My cylinder head looks the muts nuts it was previously un-skimmed and they took 4 thou off to face it up
From this (the one on the left)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/V__E7B9.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/V__E7B9.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/V__9993.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/V__9993.jpg.html)
To this
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130517_003.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130517_003.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130517_007.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130517_007.jpg.html)
No cracks at all between the valve seats
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20130519_002.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20130519_002.jpg.html)
The head was bead blasted, pressure tested, faced, and the valves/seats cut.
So this leaves me with the issue that my compression once I’m done putting it all back together will actually be lower than it was before so looks like I'm going to have to be brave with the ignition timing and boost to get 230hp
Either that or some nitrous, would like to get a 12 without gas then lump some gas on and go for a low 12........looking way ahead into the future here tho.
Currently its finances that are holding me back, my budget is quite frankly depressing, being a stay at home dad and working part time really doesn’t go to well with owning a gtt
I like the idea of water injection but would be concerned tuning it to run with the WI and then having to change it to run without. As the kits can be expensive and unreliable and if your water runs out:scared:
Only way to tune the ignition with any degree of safety is on the rollers with the knock box rigged up.
i could go mappable ignition but the budget just won't allow:disagree:
my compression once I’m done putting it all back together will actually be lower than it was before
If lower, skim the head to raise the c/r.
If higher, that's not a bad thing, if you can keep under the det' threshold. If you prefer to play safe though, either fit a thicker headgasket and/or open up the squish area; both of which will lower the c/r.
My last head was 72.9 and i managed to run 24lb manifold, with 4degrees of advance right up to 7.5k in fourth. This was the run just before the valve guide failure.
I think i may use a std headgasket or even a campus one just to raise the cr a little, don't want to skim the head as it's a good un. I should really get a set of standard comp pistons but again for now just can't justify it. I know a few other c1j's that have got away with a fair bit more than 4 degrees.
Bumblebee1990
20-05-2013, 13:20
Get wmi with a low level sensor and spare 2 litres in the boot.
I know a few other c1j's that have got away with a fair bit more than 4 degrees.
:)
o.e headgasket is perfectly fine to use.
:scared:
Get wmi with a low level sensor and spare 2 litres in the boot.
I have a bladder like a camel so i could perhaps not bother with the 2liters in the boot, and just hold on for a few hours before going for a drive......:laugh::wasntme:
might look a little strange pulled up at the side of the road filling up my WI tank.
I just think that for what i want i could spend the money for WI elsewhere and see better improvements, maybe a billet comp wheel for the blower:cool:
I'm currently hunting around for the final few parts I require to start bolting the engine back together.
I'm after a standard headgasket set, what's the best brand to buy? I have had a few issues with the corteco sets and their quality recently.
Need some boost back in my life:agree:
the payen 1.9mm matey is a good one
also make sure you torque head to 80nm boss
The payen headgasket is nigh on identical to the mellior phil:)
Come on Phil, chop chop! :D
Longest project in history! :wasntme:
TNT ANDY
19-10-2013, 09:32
Longest project in history! :wasntme:
Moderator - please change the title to 'Project 12 years'
:laugh:
Moderator - please change the title to 'Project 12 years'
:laugh:
:laugh::agree:
I have been putting to much time effort and money into catching these
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/1377379_473136642794046_227134126_n.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/1377379_473136642794046_227134126_n.jpg.html)
TNT ANDY
19-10-2013, 13:48
:eek:
Look at that disgusting stinking slimy thing.
But enough about Phil - that's a monster of a fish. Good work fella.:agree::agree::agree:
That's a big old carp Phil, what was the weight ?.
Not overly into fishing myself but you might know of my brother Dr Paul Garner as he's pretty well known in fishing circles.
It was 42lb I was in France a few weeks back now and this is the biggest fish i caught.
Perfect picture for a car forum:cooter:
Thats a clonker phil.:agree:
It was Old Oaks booked through Angling Lines, around 15mins outside le mans, biggest fish of the week from our party was 52lb,
4 of us booked the lake exclusive and we all had a 40:)
It was our first French fishing trip.
Cracking stuff mate I just done 2 nights on yateley pads lake complex and was the only one to catch had a nice 28.9 mirror also going back to France next year in April mate great place wicked venue with massive carp to 74 check it out mate its lac Le pins
Will do Phil :)
So back on to cars, as I'm changing the engine bearings while it's all apart I would like everyone's opinion on dropping the crank but then re-using the crankshaft oil seal, is this just uber pikey! Lol And should I just buy a bottom end set and replace for new:scratch:
Nad-5GTT
21-10-2013, 10:24
:laugh: I've been in that predicament before, I would just get a bottom end gasket set and be done with it. You tight arse :D
Managed a few hours today on the five, the main bearings were still like new so I didn't need to drop the crank:agree:
installed the new piston and liner and changed all the big ends, they were lightly scored from all the sand (exhaust paste:mad:) and bits of valve stem oil seals I found in the sump.
Journals were all A1 still, luckily as was the cam and followers.
The bottom end is complete now and turning over freely, just the lovely job of sealing the sump up with the engine in the car now:disagree: looking forward to that like a visit to the clap clinic:laugh:
The head needs assembling and fitting then to plumb it all up and get it running.
Good to be finally putting bits back on as opposed to stripping them off.
Good read. Most build threads on here with other engines in the 5 is a sad sight. Keep at it and remember the c1j is the soul of the 5!
The sole of the 5?
http://hungrygerald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/41288-Sole-300x123.jpg
:confused:
The sole?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Right_sole.jpg/230px-Right_sole.jpg
Well I would agree that it's the soul of the GTT, but not the sole. :laugh:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k--A6fARjN4/Tt_QYb2EdKI/AAAAAAAAEEM/_c0XV-cDy1s/s200/soul_body.jpg
Got to be honest, once I have done a 12 I was toying with the idea of doing a conversion, simply because unless you spend some wonga 300hp isn't an option with the c1j.
Maybe I'm being greedy, Above 200hp is fun so any more must be :eek: Hence the want:D
Never quite the same when somebody asks what's under the bonnet and you tell them it's a clio engine rather than the 1.4 lump and with high figures you then have the costs of trying to put the power down. Too much power and not enough thought will see your times going backwards :laugh:
I have finally managed to get in a small bit of time over Christmas to work on the car,
Everything is more or less ready to put back together,
Here's the replacement piston with new rings and a new liner.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20131120_003-1.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20131120_003-1.jpg.html)
I have also replaced the rod/cap bearings as they were lightly scored from the exhaust paste that made it's way into the sump.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20131130_001.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20131130_001.jpg.html)
I Have also assembled the cylinder head with the piper valve springs
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20131214_004.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20131214_004.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20131214_005.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20131214_005.jpg.html)
I didn't get any shots of the head with all the manifolds/waterpump bolted up.
However a snapped head bolt has stopped play, It was bolt number 4 and I was only going to 75nm it went with a bang, luckily it snapped at the top of the threaded part and I managed to get the broken stud out of the block.
Miffed because it's a waste of a headgasket, it was compressed with three bolts and the others were pretty tight, part of me wants to re-use the gasket and 1 old bolt and just crack on with it, then another part of me says stop being pikey and get a new gasket and bolts sorted.
Red October
03-01-2014, 14:44
Throw caution to the wind and get a MLS chucked in, multiple use out of one gasket hahaha.
Red October
03-01-2014, 14:48
It was Old Oaks booked through Angling Lines, around 15mins outside le mans, biggest fish of the week from our party was 52lb,
4 of us booked the lake exclusive and we all had a 40:)
It was our first French fishing trip.
Old oakes has had good reviews from friends. Done Dreamlakes twice, once drive and survive and the other was a 3x meals a day holiday on a coach jobbie :agree:
Same here weve ALL always had a 40+ but it gets repetitive catching 10-25lb cats, slimy hands play havoc with the rizla!
I like my headgasket to go before a liner, if I was to get an MLS gasket and have a small slip up whilst setting up it would be a liner that took the brunt, if the engine was a little more special I would. I'm actually using a standard gasket :agree:
The fact you can re-use the MLS does make it cost effective when trying to tune the motor for power, just would rather leave the sump in place the next time it breaks.
Old Oaks really was great, Mehdi the bloke who own's old oaks (he also owns larroussi) just pretty much left us to it all week, he was on hand on the phone for any advice or if we needed more bait.
The lake was just a little to small for my liking I have a taste for massive more wild type waters, a week probably wouldn't be enough;)
As a weeks holiday and a chance to relax it was just what the doctor ordered:)
I can still almost taste the fillet steak we got from the local butchers.
Also do not under any circustances try a French offal sausage, it really was the worst thing I have ever tasted:wasntme:
Red October
03-01-2014, 17:22
I like my headgasket to go before a liner, if I was to get an MLS gasket and have a small slip up whilst setting up it would be a liner that took the brunt, if the engine was a little more special I would. I'm actually using a standard gasket :agree:
The fact you can re-use the MLS does make it cost effective when trying to tune the motor for power, just would rather leave the sump in place the next time it breaks.
Old Oaks really was great, Mehdi the bloke who own's old oaks (he also owns larroussi) just pretty much left us to it all week, he was on hand on the phone for any advice or if we needed more bait.
The lake was just a little to small for my liking I have a taste for massive more wild type waters, a week probably wouldn't be enough;)
As a weeks holiday and a chance to relax it was just what the doctor ordered:)
I can still almost taste the fillet steak we got from the local butchers.
Also do not under any circustances try a French offal sausage, it really was the worst thing I have ever tasted:wasntme:
If I crack a liner that will be a first, I normally crack the pistons!
Similar story here....
had 2 very good friends who had both has 45+ within 2 days. On day three they decided to go into St Dizier after a bottle of 45%brandy each and ashamedly a couple of gram of mdma each also. By lunch on day four the bivvys were still mini padlocked and my mates nowhere to be seen.... The English bloke who runs the lease gave us a lift into town when he went to get the daily food run. In the butchers we were told through translation that 2 English lads were in there the day before using poor gcse French off their cake, saying "du lait ou fromage" and making the international sign of spreading butter on bread. After shooing them away after 15 minutes the owner was most displeased from comments as "j'ai deteste le francais, le merde"
They spent the night in a shed behind a bar called "martinis" and got lost back to the fishery..... We found them eating rotisserie chicken with the guts still inside from a dual carriageway esque van 13 miles in the opposite direction at 7pm on day 4. Day 5 the spent all day zipped up hahahahaha....
Funniest trip in my life EVER.
At last the engine is in one piece!
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_003.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_003.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_016.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_016.jpg.html)
I have amassed quite a few engine casualties over the years, damaged pistons and bent valves damaged rod/cap and bearings. Could probably build a c1j blindfolded :laugh:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_010.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20140107_010.jpg.html)
Also this head is so clean I felt like chucking some dirty oil over it so it fits in with the rest of the bay:laugh: not to worry i'm sure it won't take long to "blend in";)
B18ftMOJO5
08-01-2014, 17:05
Looking good phil, not long before your back on rd hopefully.:agree:
Quality lad it would be good if we had deep pockets, I'm sure we would put something silly togeather, these 200 bhp c1js are getting easy ;)
Red October
08-01-2014, 20:44
With the money from yours go balls out and but a Meg 225 in it, sponsored by josh! Im sure he'd let you have a go lad.
A few developments,
It's almost ready to fire up:agree: literally one tappet left to adjust. (dad duty called at just the wrong time)
On a slightly less positive note I have lost the garage space to keep/work on the car. My buddy needs the space to build his new kitchen. Plus he has just purchased a series 2 Lotus Esprit! can't complain at all. It's been in there for almost 4 years and as hard as I have tried he wouldn't let me pay him anything. :laugh:
So I have until the 10th of Feb to try my best to get the raider running/mot'd/insured, that should be fun on a part time wage:disagree:
I have a few other options as far as storage is concerned, if they don't work out it will more than likely have to go back outside and then into a counsel garage. Main issue really is because my time is so limited, I work 3 days and have my twins the rest of the time, as the Mrs works 12 hour shifts. I normally work on the car in the evenings after she gets home from work, however in a counsel garage with no power that will prove rather difficult to say the least. :disagree:
So it may be a case of pushing on to get the 12 second quater then having to face facts and sell up:sad:
I will however try my best to keep hold of it as after 8 years (will be 9 this July) I'm kind of attached to it. :ashamed:
dave j gtt
12-01-2014, 20:32
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
good read, nice catch good luck :cool:
a
I have to keep mine in a rented council garage Phil.Its far from ideal but better than it been outside.:sad2:
You could always get a generator for the council garage?? that's how we had to do it after losing our big garage and maybe sound deaden it if there are houses around. Just an idea :scratch:
Park it outside the house, apart from the weather it's far easier to nip out for half hour to tinker. May be worth giving robin a shout as he has a similar situ?
Finally..... The old French slag is running!:smokin:
tied up a few loose ends hooked up the battery and after a few seconds the dirty old mare fired into life! Let it warm till the cooling fan kicked in then knocked it off. Will let it cool overnight then re-tourq the head bolts and redo the tappets.
The lump sounded smooth as silk was a nice sound after so long. :D
Nad-5GTT
14-01-2014, 17:21
Well done Phil, can't wait to see this ripping it up at Santa pod. (If you don't blow it up before hand my missus just said) cheeky sod :rolleyes: :laugh:
Dave Reed
14-01-2014, 17:26
Well done mate... That must be the longest engine build in history :D
Now I want to see a burn out vid once you've done the bits tomorrow just to make sure nothing else is going to break :agree:
Finally..... The old French slag is running!:smokin:
tied up a few loose ends hooked up the battery and after a few seconds the dirty old mare fired into life! Let it warm till the cooling fan kicked in then knocked it off. Will let it cool overnight then re-tourq the head bolts and redo the tappets.
The lump sounded smooth as silk was a nice sound after so long. :D
Well done phil.You deserved to knock one off.Hahaha:D
It got better than that, just after I turned it off my Buddy turned up with his newly acquired
1979 series 2 Lotus Esprit. (the one that turns into a sub in the bond movie)
It's the 2l n/a version, took it out for a spin, it was awesome, definitely what you would call a 70's driving experience. :D
And yes it's not the first time today I have heard the blowing up comment, and Dave your right really no better way to test it out;) I'm still not going to tho, don't have cahoenies big enough:wasntme:
A Few more progress pictures from todays efforts
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4673.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4673.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4680.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4680.jpg.html)
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4678.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4678.jpg.html)
I just love this bms downpipe it's a work of art fits almost better than the o.e downpipe:laugh:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4679.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4679.jpg.html)
All ready for it's MOT went through it today, had to use the hammer method on the windscreen washer motor, a few swift hits and it fired back into life, the horn sounds like it's asthmatic it's a good job mr MOT man is a friendly chap:wasntme:
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4683.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4683.jpg.html)
As you can see i'm definitely a function over form guy when it comes to my GTT:)
Bodywork wise the screen surround is becoming a bit of a mess, so that's the next big job to tackle. I want to get the goal of the whole thread achieved before I tackle that, if I don't get a 12 second run this summer then next winter I more than likely get it sorted.
Looks great :agree:
Can't wait to see this get into the 12s soon.
I seem to have run into more carb trouble so I was wondering if anybody could shed some light or come up with some suggestions as to what to check next.
Basically my wonderfully smooth fueling carb that a "lent" to my bro was sold with his phase 1, he has compensated me financially for it so he's not a complete ****! just partly one:laugh:
So I'm stuck trying to sort his old shit box of a carb out, the first thing I need to tackle is the huge hesitation it's got when the throttle is applied suddenly.
The accelerator pump jet was set using the 5mm drill bit method, also I can say for sure there are no air leaks at all.
The hesitation is so bad that it sometimes cuts out, if your smooth with the throttle however it will be fine.
The AFR gauge shows off the scale lean during the hesitation.
Does sound like a acc pump or jet problem.Check the diagphram for the pump.Also check the bush in the bowl,im sure thats where the pump gets the fuel from.Check the acc jet make sure its not blocked or that the ball bearing inside is stuck.
Will give them a whirl and see what I can find, do my head in these carbs sometimes:disagree:
The removable bush in the bowl is the accelerator pump valve
Just to update how things are getting on in the correct place,:D the carb issues are all sorted and it was down to the accelerator delivery tube/jet was full of rubbish. It now starts on the button and has no flat spot and also fuels well so far.
I also had a little issue with the oil pressure not being what it was. I was using 10-40 semi synth. Changed the oil back to 10-60 fully synth and the pressure was as it used to be before:agree:
Managed to insure it for £246 with ALL mods declared. A little more expensive than I first thought but still, I suppose I shouldn't complain beats paying 2k like I used to when I was in my early 20's;)
I have also managed to take it up the private road for a quick tinkle at 1bar boost, gave it a bit of stick and hit 7k in first/second/third then ran out of road:laugh: and it's still in one piece.
Needs an MOT and some tax and it should be sorted. Can't see any reason why it won't pass. Ran out of funds now so will have to wait for a week or so.
Got a little bit of mayo that I have been getting all paranoid about, however this has happened every time I have had the lump apart before so I'm just going to put a few miles on it (20 odd to the mot station and back) and hope it goes away.
Then it will be time to sort my storage issue out or get one of those covers that romil is sorting out a group buy on.
Then start to play about with the bleed valve and break it again.
Hoping that with 23/24psi and 4 degree's of advance it should make the numbers required for a 12. When I broke it at Scoffs the run before it made 215hp 210ft'lbs at 22psi with the ignition advance, then it broke on the very next run typically.
This head it thicker than the last so I will be down slightly more than before on compression so may have to go even further with the ignition timing. Of course this is if it all holds together. :wasntme:
MOT time today, it's in at 11:15. Got a little bit of mayo in the rocker cover, everytime this happens after it's been apart and everytime I get worried about it:ashamed: hopefully a good run will burn it off. Looking forward to taking it out.
I will make sure I have my tools with me:laugh:
B18ftMOJO5
04-02-2014, 10:47
Great news Phil. Tools are a must for a 5. Lol i didnt have a clue about anything mechanicaly minded before i started driving my 5. Now i can help diagnose and fix most of my issues.:)
Looking forward to seeing your car on the rd.
good stuff chap, good luck
mayo always forms when an engine isn't used for a while, grip it and rip it and it'll be reet!
Passed, no advisories, 46/47psi oil pressure at 3k rpm, no overheating, no tools required, mayo all burnt off, spanked the living shit out of it on the way home!
Awesome!!:D
B18ftMOJO5
04-02-2014, 14:42
:smokin:
Ok so on the drive home I was watching the afr's to see what difference the .6mm first stage jet and double washered second stage made and I'm pleased to say I didn't see a 10 on the afr gauge at all:agree:
Cruising it's 13/14 afr then when I hit the loud pedal it actually goes leaner to 15 afr then slowly creeps back down into the 12's as the boost comes on. Drives fine, if anything a little more perkier than before off boost.
Are those lean afr's when applying the throttle ok or do I need to adjust the accelerator pump arm?
Are those lean afr's when applying the throttle ok or do I need to adjust the accelerator pump arm?
check when flat out through 3rd into 4th into 5th.
If its slight lean when the pedal is going down its bad, I cracked a liner when changing from 4th into 5th flat out racing with a clio 182 on a erm :scared: private road :agree:
Think I cured mine by tweaking the accel rod nut half a turn till it was gone :)
I thought 15 afr was a little to lean, will have a dabble with the pump arm. Did notice a difference in the WOT afr's last week before the .6 first stage and shimmed second stage it was 11.2afr now it's more like 12.2 afr but that's only with a bar boost.
Its
120 main
.9 a/c
1.4mm second stage
.6 first stage
two curved washers behind the spring in the enrichment block.
Nice one mate ,happy for you , know can you do mine lol
Been out doing some testing this afternoon, done a few 7k rpm in 4th gear runs at different levels of boost with different jetting to see what it likes best.
So I shimmed the second stage with an extra small curved washer and this seemed to bring the second stage fuel in way to late. The boost gauge would show 7/8psi before the afr's started to richen up, it would be at 15afr until around 5k rpm, wasn't happy with it, I wasn't getting any det but still just seems way to lean.
So I went back to just one washer and went back out, it was still very lean when coming on boost in fourth, again 15 afr. Then at WOT with 15psi the afr's were 12.2 pretty flat.
I was shocked at this given the second stage is 1.4mm .9 A/C so I then remembered I had been fettling around with the A/C pump arm setting so whipped the carb off and re-set it with the 5mm drill bit and dropped the first stage to .9mm from .6mm
This seemed to have the desired affect, from 2krpm foot flat to the floor in 4th gear it initially dropped to 10.9 11.2afr for a brief second then went upto a pretty flat 13.5 until the boost started to come in then it dropped to 11.6 right upto 7k rpm.
So next step was to give it a little more boost, got a little giddy with the bleed valve (it's a new one) only opened it up quarter of a turn and the boost went straight upto 22psi, didn't fancy that for now at least anyway. so dropped it back down to 18psi.
Then it was as above from 2k rpm 10.9 11.2 for a second or so then upto 13.5 then as the boost came on it dropped down to 12.1 afr right upto 7k rpm.
So I have left it at that for now.
My old carb with pretty similar spec (only difference being .9 first stage in this one i'm using) would have been uber rich at 18psi say 11.3 afr it would fuel 11.7 afr at 24psi:eek: this carb doesn't seem to be as juicy as my old one:disagree:
I'm amazed at the difference, the Engine it's self hasn't changed spec wise just a slightly lower comp ratio than before so nothing to do with that.
Ohh almost forgot, last night was the last night it spent in the garage it's now out side open to the elements:cry:
Worst thing is the lack of work space now :disagree: I have invested in one of those 4 layer storm force covers, should be here on Monday so at least it will have some protection from the elements. Still haven't spoken to my other pal who has some storage space yet so there is still a hope there. after that it will be time to ring the counsel up and see about a garage.
If you drill the ball out of the end of the 2nd stage enrichment cover you can get to the screw which adjusts the needle.Clockwise gives you the same effect as shimming anti clockwise has the opposite effect.Basically it controls the transition from the 1st stage to the 2nd.
you learn something new every day;)
best way to fine tune I would imagine. I have a few spare enrichment blocks I could give this a try with.
Really is a black art this carb tuning :smokin:
you seem to be doing things right :)
personally I'd set boost to 22/24psi and taper fueling so its 11.5~afr at 8k rpm, then start getting the 1st stage, accel rod and the 1st to 2nd stage change over sorted.
Strange how you have a 1.4mm 2nd and very little afr. Either the engine is setup well and working great or you have a restriction in the carb.
I think it's the carb, my other carb I had (gave it my bro to put on his car to sell) was miles more juicy than this one and the only difference between this engine and that was the last head was 72.8mm and this one is unskimmed 73.5mm.
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/DSCF4689.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/DSCF4689.jpg.html)
Out in the cold:cry: first time it's been iced up for 4 years:(
I'm sure it won't melt away in the cold and rain:laugh:
Unless my carb works differently i dont see how you can tune for wot and then start tuning the 1st stage.The 1st stage provides extra fuel and continues to do so at full throttle.Putting a 0.6mm 1st stage in leaned the afrs out at wot on my set up.
This seemed to be the case with mine also, end of the day we are never going to get them perfect as they are carbs, for that it's obvious we need efi. :laugh:
Trying to get the perfect set up is probably never going to happen.
All we can do is keep trying, I think what he means is get WOT sorted first then play around with the rest afterwards, so if that means that a 1mm first stage is needed for 24psi then that's it, the only other thing we can do is bring the second stage in slightly later. My car did 40000 miles with a 135 main jet and a 1mm a/c and it kept on going no issues at all at 1bar with a T2. Although not ideal to be slightly rich at times it's not the end of the world.
Lets face it doing what I'm doing it probably isn't going to be that long before it all comes apart anyway:laugh:
Also when you read the carb article Scoff mentions he uses a .6 first stage jet, but he also used a large main jet. So the .6 may have been good for that set up. As I have a larger second stage the .6 may not be as good, making things to lean.
Perhaps the only option with a larger second stage is to control when it comes in and that's your lot, unless you start upping the main.
Get the boost turned up ;) You should have raised the comp up to standard instead of dropping it more lad!
Smaller 1st stage made no difference to wot on my setup. All it done was stopped the black smoke on spool up.
I will do once this carb decides to fuel properly:laugh:
just shows how different each lump/carb is, although mine was always rich when coming on boost it never used to stutter or kick out black smoke, if it wasn't for the afr meter I wouldn't have even known.
The comp wasn't raised this time round because of budget mainly but I'm still confident it will make the power I'm after with a bit of ignition timing.
Scoff did say to me once that high comp and retarded ignition is generally better than low comp with advance ignition. Plus MS motorsport used to do well with high comp motors.
yes these are quite low cr, which is why i'm not too fussed about skimming heads ;)
I'd think a 8.5.1 ratio + mappable timing will give a nice engine that's responsive to drive and get good power without having to arse about mapping it too much.
Been out in the five doing some more testing tonight.
Turns out the Air Corrector jet I thought was .9mm was actually 1mm:ashamed: Either way I have chucked a .9 in now and it's added enough fuel for some more boost:smokin:
It's upto 21psi now, done a fair few 4th gear pulls from 3k upto 7k fuels ok. The afr's still seem to be a little lean on spool up/low boost the at WOT the afr's don't drop into the 12's until 4/5psi, then they hit 12 flat at 7psi.
Then they slowly drop to 11.8 once up at 7k rpm.
Seems a little lean still on spool up with the .9 first stage jet.
No adverse symptoms that I can hear with the steth or see on any of the temp/oil pressure readings.
When going from 2k rpm in second right upto 5k in fifth flat shifting all the way I don't seem to get any lean spots that show on the aem apart from the small part on spool up.
So I decided to up the boost some more to 24psi, however I started to hear the tell tail pings of knock an the afr was 12.6 so not to good so backed it off did plenty of fouth gear pulls again at 21psi and it was fine.
Think I need to up the first stage back to 1mm to try to richen it up at 24psi.
Either way nothing broke so that's a bonus (jinksed myself now:laugh:)
Felt I would say 185/190 hp Think the lower compression is the cause for the slightly low figures, this engine since being built has always been just short of other higher comp c1j's by 9/10hp. It's now the lowest compression it's ever been. Need to get it upto 24psi 11.6 arf how it was before then swap the timing leads round for some advance. Will wait for the rollers before I do this as The knock detection is much much better than a pony £12 mechanics steth:laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs9sj4n2hwo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=121&pictureid=9896
I couldn't resist posting this one. The Lotus is my mates recent purchase
Took advantage of the few hours of dry weather we had this morning up north, went out doing some more testing.
Boost is now upto 24psi manifold I would like the afr's a touch richer they are a pretty flat 12.4 upto just under 7k when they creep upto 12.6
I think if I put the first stage back to standard it should give me just that little bit extra that I need up at the top of fourth. it's currently .9 going to change it to 1mm.
Feels nice and powerful, second gear is an absolute comedy gear now that's for sure it's not even to cleaver in third when it comes on boost:D
Nad-5GTT
23-02-2014, 17:14
Well done mate she sounds like a real beast
Matt Cole
23-02-2014, 17:39
Took advantage of the few hours of dry weather we had this morning up north, went out doing some more testing.
Boost is now upto 24psi manifold I would like the afr's a touch richer they are a pretty flat 12.4 upto just under 7k when they creep upto 12.6
I think if I put the first stage back to standard it should give me just that little bit extra that I need up at the top of fourth. it's currently .9 going to change it to 1mm.
Feels nice and powerful, second gear is an absolute comedy gear now that's for sure it's not even to cleaver in third when it comes on boost:D
What sort of power do you think it might have at that boost level?
Not sure exactly but the last time it was on the rr at 24lb and the addition of a BMS downpipe it was 215hp. 210fr/lbs
:edit: I would put it about that power as it is.
The low compression definitely caps the numbers slightly.
With less boost and more ignition advance it did 220 @22lb.
I need to get a few hours in on the rollers and then sort out a trip to pod.:agree:
Love this car :burnrubber:
you seem to be doing things right :)
personally I'd set boost to 22/24psi and taper fueling so its 11.5~afr at 8k rpm, then start getting the 1st stage, accel rod and the 1st to 2nd stage change over sorted.
Strange how you have a 1.4mm 2nd and very little afr. Either the engine is setup well and working great or you have a restriction in the carb.
The level could be low in the bowl too. Level plays a big part in how the emulsion tube works. Its a long time ago now but I think I remember playing with different height copper washers behind the needle jet. I don't remember what height I settled on sorry Phil!
BluntyR5GTT
25-02-2014, 17:23
fantastic progress thread and some really valuable trail and error posts here, defo something that im taking on board as im going to be fettling my carb soon
The level could be low in the bowl too. Level plays a big part in how the emulsion tube works. Its a long time ago now but I think I remember playing with different height copper washers behind the needle jet. I don't remember what height I settled on sorry Phil!
I remember Rob (backyard) mentioning this to me something I will try and see how it gets on.
Cheers Andy, just seems to be taking an age for everything to come together so I can get upto pod and get what I'm after.
When I started this project my Mrs was only a few months pregnant (with twins)
I had no idea how life changing this was going to be and how little time I would have for myself or indeed the fact I would have to start working part time.
I was also diagnosed with Crohn's Disease 2 years ago and this has also held me back a little.
Now my twins are nearly three, the Crohn's seems to be under control (for now at least) I'm starting to get a little more time to work on the car and also have the energy and enthusiasm back for it.
Fingers crossed I can squeeze enough power out of it and keep it in one piece and finally manage what I have been after for so long. :agree:
Now you can all get your violins out for me :laugh:
Woznaldo
26-02-2014, 10:18
Good on ya Phil. My 5 is my escape from all the stress that builds up at work, even though it sometimes lays dormant at times while I try to find the time to fix/mod/replace stuff. My missus hates it, but understands that it keeps me happy.
Have to admit that I've never quite mastered the Solex 32 DIS and there's an itch that stops me going full EFI until it gets scratched! That's why I posted up the Gp.A Venturi Kit.
Keep up with the good mate, it's all worth it.
Woz ;)
swap the timing leads round for some advance
Coming along nicely mate :D
I am just wondering though, why not make the tdc completley adjustable so you could fine tune the advance a bit better instead of a flat 4deg?
I have given this a try with a bran new timing sensor and it mullered it! I put the bolts in so the holes didn't go oval gave it a few taps and the plastic sensor just came off.:disagree: i had one a few years back that i did manage to make adjustable but must have thrown it away by mistake.
Is there some different types of sensor or was i just a little to heavy handed?
Ah I see, would be annoying to bust another :laugh:
To be fair I think you were just unfortunate, its easily damaged.
I did mine in situ, removed the cover and tightened back up, then used a blowtorch to roast the bracket, a few taps with a hammer and it was free :smokin:
May have an old one in the garage (somewhere:scratch:) if its any use to you, but has been chopped and joined due to some damage - Reckon its still useable though
Dave Reed
03-03-2014, 12:19
You defo need to heat them up a little Phil.
I just held the sensor in the vice, gave the metal bracket a few taps and bam sorted..
I may have a gt tuning adjustable one in the spares box, remind me after 8 tonight and I'll check.
I may have a gt tuning adjustable one in the spares box, remind me after 8 tonight and I'll check.
GT tuning......not sure i could afford that :laugh:
Cheers pal, let us know :agree:
Does anybody know what sort of compression readings i should be getting with a compression test with a retarded 285 cam and low comp dished pistons and a head that's only had 4 thousandths taken off it.
I did a test the other day and got
125 120 125 120
in psi
from the flywheel end with the throttle fully open and all the other plugs out on a cold engine.
I know that the low comp and the retarded cam timing do cause low cranking compression but is it normal for it to be this low, most gtt's are 140/150 psi
B18ftMOJO5
04-03-2014, 12:27
No idea mate ive just realised ive been driving my car half throttle all year...:cry:
Haz installed a new throttle cable and laughed the throttle body was only opening half at full foot down....:sad2: but wow its like driving a totally different car. Lol
No idea mate ive just realised ive been driving my car half throttle all year...:cry:
Haz installed a new throttle cable and laughed the throttle body was only opening half at full foot down....:sad2: but wow its like driving a totally different car. Lol
Ha, that is quite funny:laugh:
B18ftMOJO5
04-03-2014, 17:39
Lol tell me about it how stupid do i feel. I though it was because i had 16s on that was why i wasnt getting torque steer at all..lmao now i feel scared putting my foot down:smokin: So much nicer on the motorway too, power there always and immediatly. Need to get to haz more often. Lol
Right team,
I think I have broke something:ashamed:
What has happened to people who's head has lifted under boost?
I did the head bolts upto 70nm warmed it up let cool over night then re tourqed them to 85nm.
I have fresh oil from the headgasket seal on the flywheel side of the engine, pretty sure it's not coming upwards and after a few pulls this afternoon at 24psi it looked like a fair amount of oil had come from said area.
the gasket appears to have also ever so slightly mushroomed out at this point also, pretty sure it was perfectly even when it went on.
Done a comp test as above
125 120 125 120
from the flywheel end, low comp and retarded cam.
Plan of action is to check the headbolts first of all then if they are ok should I suspect the gasket?
Markey Mark (BD)
06-03-2014, 15:33
If the gasket has mushroomed out (pushed out of shape) i would suspect its been detting
Hmmm, I have heard a few tell tail pings durin setting up, plus I'm at 12.4afr at the very top of fourth. Nothing for more than a nano second tho:scratch:
it's only mushroomed out very slightly by 1mm at the most. But the rest of the gasket is flush.
might be head off time again:laugh:
Markey Mark (BD)
06-03-2014, 15:54
Hmmm, I have heard a few tell tail pings durin setting up, plus I'm at 12.4afr at the very top of fourth. Nothing for more than a nano second tho:scratch:
it's only mushroomed out very slightly by 1mm at the most. But the rest of the gasket is flush.
might be head off time again:laugh:
You can still be within the limits of the fueling but still have the engine det alot
Doesn't take long for it to cause havoc once it happens
Never had one spit oil out tho, seemed a lot over the front of the block and down the top seam of the hesdgasket. Unless it is coming upwards.
Also the comp readings are even over each cylinder if a little low
Markey Mark (BD)
06-03-2014, 16:10
For the gasket to push out like that its the one of the main reasons i can think of, not many things cause the gasket to push out
Could be wrong but to be honest in this case i think the head will have to come off to be sure what it is and replace the miss-shaped gasket
only other cause to det I can think of would be liner heights wrong?
This is the oil
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20140306_003.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20140306_003.jpg.html)
This is how much the gasket appears to have mushroomed out, the rest of the gasket is flush with the head
http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/gtphil_2008/WP_20140306_002.jpg (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/gtphil_2008/media/WP_20140306_002.jpg.html)
Seems more like a gasket fault to me tbh!
I must add this is a standard headgasket
:laugh: better order a gasket and some new bolts!
My collection of old gaskets and headbolts is becoming impressive :dearme:
turbo ted
06-03-2014, 22:20
standard:disagree: for that boost and chasing 12 seconds no,no
a least fit blue millers 1.9mm or a steel gasket but then if the steel gasket does not give way liners will start cracking.
are you running super unleaded and some fuel additive octane
standard:disagree: for that boost and chasing 12 seconds no,no
a least fit blue millers 1.9mm or a steel gasket but then if the steel gasket does not give way liners will start cracking.
are you running super unleaded and some fuel additive octane
Use millers cvl turbo and always super unleaded.
Standard one was to try and raise the c/r a little. Suppose I was asking for trouble really:wasntme:
Markey Mark (BD)
07-03-2014, 08:22
I think the gasket pokes out alittle further that side, looks normal to me not miss-shaped at all
As its leaking from there the gasket has deffinately failed or some reason, i have used the red seal gaskets before for high boost ok but tended to use the blue seal
For me instead of torquein to 70nm then 85nm at a later date i use torque then to 75nm, run it then check they were still torque later. Never had issue.
I have checked the pictures from when the head first went on and it does look pretty much the same.
I need to rule out the headbolts first of all I think, my first thought was if it's coming from the head gasket then how has the seal round a cam follower been damaged.
Hence why I thought it may be lifting under boost.
I don't lose any coolant it doesn't over heat and there are no mixing of oil/water at all, it actually runs quite well. I do get a slight random bogging down on idle when it's warm every now and then.
I'm sure that it I haven't heard det through the steth, done a fair few pulls listening for it.
I need to double double check for no leaks from anywhere else that travel upwards, even so, yesterday it was all over the front of the block and on the top part of the headgasket and head after only 5 mins of driving. I have had a good look round whilst it's idling and can't spot any leaks, only seems to appear after a long pull in either third or fourth.
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