View Full Version : just another GTTi project
I´ve finally decided it was time to write my own project thread.
I have a phase 1.5 GTT in a prima shell. Phase 1.5 has basicly parts from both phase 1 and 2. Fe the sump is a phase 1 type but carb and associated piping is phase2. It has been nice to buy parts since you usually can´t be sure which one is it.
ENGINE&POWERTRAIN, past
I did the full engine overhaul 2 years ago. I Did some basic head work and fitted CatCams 265 cam too because head flow charts I got "before" and "after" didn´t show any point in choosing wilder cams. When I got the car running again, the plan was to keep it quite standard and in everyday use.
"upgrading" started with FMIC. Soon I notice that the cooling of the car wasn´t sufficient. Mocal cooler and clio16v rad was fitted.
Hunger for parts got worse, so I had to replace my standard exhaust manifold with my DIY equal volume stainless manifold. It seemed to improve boost rise but I have no power charts to support this.
After making the manifold I bought a T25 from 200SX. Scoff sold me 0.49 exhaust housing to improve the lagginess of the turbo. T25 needed bigger and better downpipe, so I installed DIY onepiece downpipe. (I´ll add picture later).
When choosing to upgrade my turbo I also decided to convert the 5 into EFI. Scoff helped me choosing the right sensors and also made me superior "plug-in" loom for the adaptronic I purchased.
I made the first intake manifold with manual milling machines. It had some leaking issues which required a lot of work. Also the runners seemed to be too short, and the plenum has problems flow-wise. Still, in the end it worked quite well. I managed to get 2 powercharts before breaking my gearbox. First one was only upto 4000rpm with decent boost, and the second one was to make MOT guys happy (a chart with just under 20% power rise). Week after mot I broke my gearbox, and while waiting for new I decided to make a second, far improved, intake manifold.
INTAKE V2.
I decided to re-use the throttle body and those 431 injectors I had. Everything else basicly changed. The runners are longer now, injectors mountings are in the runners. Plenum has improved design also removing the difficult bend just before throttle body. Fuel rail is stainless now, with fever connections that could leak. Most of the parts are milled with cnc to ease the assembly process. I'm planning to anodize (without color) the manifold to improve finishing quality and add chemical resistance.
More pictures here: http://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php?albumid=816
FUELING&IGNITION
At the moment the car is running standard fuel. The second intake manifold and fuel piping has been made to accept also E85 fuel. I´m planning to buy the zeitronix E85 analyzer kit and take the signal into the adaptronic to change fueling and ignition timing. Connecting a WB and knock sensors to the car will make it full "flexi-fuel" spec.
The Ethanol content sensor however costs a fortune and therefore the plan is to first map the car run on both fuels separately and compare the gains. If there aren´t enough, I won´t proceed with this. The adaptonic doesn´t currently have a function to directly accept this flexi-fuel adaptivity, but I´m planning to use my intake-temp sensor channel to adjust the fueling and timing.
SUSPENSION
Nothing special really. Spax suspension kit, clio16v brakes, momo 15x7 rims.
INTERIOR
Sparco seats, carbon door cards. Most of the interior removed. I will install a roll cage as soon as I have time and can afford it.
I´ll add updates to this thread whenever something interesting happends.
CARBON FIBER BODYWORK PROGRESS (20.9.2013)
I'll try to update this list as often as something happens.
PART NAME, MOULD DONE, CF PART, WEIGHT
Front bumper, done, 2273g wo trimming & mesh & fixings, 70% weight saving
Rear bumper, done, 1570g wo fixings
Hood, done, done, 2050g+inner structure 700g?
Front grill, done, done, 265g
Front arch LH, done, done, ?
Front arch RH, done, done, 690g
Door LH outer skin, done, done, 1640 g
Door LH inner skin, done, done, 1765 g
Door LH window rails, done, done, xx g
Door RH outer skin, done, done, 1700g w/o trimming
Door RH inner skin, done, done, 1645g w/o trimming
Door RH window rails, done, done, xx g
side skirt LH, done, done, 540g w/o fixings
side skirt RH, done, done, ?g w/o fixings
Rear arch LH, done, done, 220g w/o fixings.
Rear arch RH, done, done, 180g w/o fixings (I'll have to rescale this)
Tailgate lockpanel, done, done, 471g
Under light trim LH done, done, -70%
Under light trim RH done, done, -70%
light trim LH done done, -200g
light trim RH done done, -200g
Renault5 emblem, done, done, 20g
GTturbo emblem, done, done, 11g
Tailgate final weight with fittings and adhesives 940g+934g+xx
Door LH final weight with window fittings and adhesives 3450g
Roof, done,
Mirrors,
center console
jesus in the seat of a 5
19-02-2010, 06:04
Bloody good work harri , im sure some of us could use your fabrication skills on here , good job on the manifold that is ace....:), maybe some links to where you have purchased stuff from also may be usefull?...if i havent missed them..:laugh:, keep up the bloddy good work...:agree:
Here are the torque charts I measured last summer. Blue one is the one for MOT and purple is the one which I did first with correctly adjusted actuator.
Woznaldo
19-02-2010, 09:34
Bloody good work harri , im sure some of us could use your fabrication skills on here , good job on the manifold that is ace....:), maybe some links to where you have purchased stuff from also may be usefull?...if i havent missed them..:laugh:, keep up the bloddy good work...:agree:
:agree:
On the same note, where is that throttle body from and what size are the butterflies?
:agree:
On the same note, where is that throttle body from and what size are the butterflies?
Looks like a clio valver throttle body to me
yes, it's the F7P throttle body from valver clio. Idle has been working decently without any idle control valve. Smaller butterfly´s diameter is ~35mm and larger ~50mm
Woznaldo
19-02-2010, 11:57
The reason I ask is that it looks like it might bolt straight up to my Alliance plenum? Could you grab the mounting bolt spacings so I check please?
Attached picture should give you required dimensions. If you want to use the throttle body with boost application, a good way to make it work is modifying it to accept and seal silicone pipe the same way I did.
units are in mm.
tonesGTT
19-02-2010, 17:36
:eek: Wow. Really top stuff :niceone: :cool:
Rob@Backyardracing
19-02-2010, 21:36
Good build :agree: good mani design too.....
Bloody good work harri , im sure some of us could use your fabrication skills on here , good job on the manifold that is ace....:), maybe some links to where you have purchased stuff from also may be usefull?...if i havent missed them..:laugh:, keep up the bloddy good work...:agree:
Thanks. What stuff do you mean exactly? Intake manifold parts, or in general?
Woznaldo
20-02-2010, 09:15
Thanks for the measurements Harri,
I'll let you know if they are the same.
Woznaldo
20-02-2010, 09:46
Thanks for the measurements Harri,
I'll let you know if they are the same.
Good old Renault, they do appear to be the same using my steel ruler! That will definitely be a better option than the 32mm/22mm throttle body that I've already got.
Good old Renault, they do appear to be the same using my steel ruler! That will definitely be a better option than the 32mm/22mm throttle body that I've already got.
I know, sometimes Renault surprises me positively too. Usually it's more or less negatively. ;)
Good old Renault, they do appear to be the same using my steel ruler! That will definitely be a better option than the 32mm/22mm throttle body that I've already got.
I machined two sets of everything for my intake manifold. So if you require 10mm thick alloy flange to suit that F7P throttle body I can sell and post it propably cheaper than cutting or milling one yourself.
allanr5gtt
21-02-2010, 11:21
interesting thread good to see another efi cj1 in the club. :agree::agree::agree:
what is the size off the hose your are using on the throttle body?
have you got the hose to seal properly onit? have you jsut used a jubilie clip onit?
It's ID is 80mm if I remember correcly. I just took some material off from the original attachment so it could seal hose properly.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php?albumid=816&pictureid=10314 shows the modified throttle body.
After installing the hose with two hose clips I did pressure test on the whole system just to be sure. Newer had any problems with this connection.
Small update; I finally had chance to try and see how well the new manifold fits. As expected I needed to cut corner of the plenum to allow at least 10mm spacing between firewall and manifold. At the moment I can't check how well intake and exhaust fit together since intake flange still has extra supports to allow easy attachment to milling machine. I noticed that exhaust manifold had small leakage between flange and head so I need to sort that out aswell. :(
Next I need to weld brackets for the fuel rail and do fuel leakage test.
Andrew Cooke
24-02-2010, 20:39
nice project:)
it looks like you have the suspension top mounts on the wrong side of the car ;)
Again, small update:
I got the fuel rail and it's mountings complete and decided it was time to check the fuel system for leaks. It seems to hold at least 3 bars of fuel pressure.
I also welded the final welds of the runner part. Next thing to do is machine the head-flange planar. I'm hoping that welding the plenum part into the runner part won't do any harm to the planar head-flange.
Looking good, what size injectors are you using?
Looking good, what size injectors are you using?
they are 431 bosch ones, If I remember corretly, 360cc.
Work has been crazy last couple of months, but here is finally a small update
I machined new manifold mounting surface planar. After that I trial fitted it with exhaust manifold and welded the plenum part inplace. Next I have to finalise all weldings, make bracket for throttle cable and anodize the whole thing. After that the intake manifold is ready.
I ordered ceramic coating for the exhaust manifold, so I won't have to fit the exhaust wrap again.
Since I had leakage problems with first intake manifold, I decided to also remove the head for two reasons: 1) have the mounting surface sanded planar (if there are minor scratches as I suspect) 2) install both manifolds and check that they both seal properly before installing the head
Woznaldo
23-05-2010, 11:31
Nice work Harri, it's coming along nicely!
Final assembly; intake manifold is ready and exhaust manifold has had ceramic coating. I didn't have time to anodize the intake manifold yet, but I'll do that before trying the E85 fuel.
I still need to install coated downpipe, AEM wb kit and some other bits before trying to start the car again.
R5TURBORON
10-07-2010, 11:17
good work. the throttle bodie is off a F7P from a renault 19 as the inlet connection is different from the clio one
good work. the throttle bodie is off a F7P from a renault 19 as the inlet connection is different from the clio one
throttle body is from clio16v, but it has been modified to accept silicone hose
Yesterday I got rest of the parts installed, did leakage test on the system and started the engine. It seems to idle quite nicely with the old maps.
I still need to sort the AEM wb kit (I currently have 14point7 kit installed but it won't give output to adaptronic) out and after that it's dyno time again.
Hunger for parts got worse, so I had to replace my standard exhaust manifold with my DIY equal volume stainless manifold. It seemed to improve boost rise but I have no power charts to support this.
Really impressed with the project, I love DIY builds.. it looks like you used some sort of computer program to work out the manifold, do you have any pics of it progress and how you welded it up? It always seems so difficult when there are so many welds that are so hard to reach!
Really impressed with the project, I love DIY builds.. it looks like you used some sort of computer program to work out the manifold, do you have any pics of it progress and how you welded it up? It always seems so difficult when there are so many welds that are so hard to reach!
I used Catia for modelling both manifolds. Progress for welding the tubing was quite similar in both manifolds. First I cut all straight and angled tube parts. Then welded one straight and one angled part as pairs. This I did to all the parts. After that I checked measures from center lines of both parts and assembled the tubing similarly. Basicly I first welded all the tubings separately and after that did the assembly.
Assembly of the intake manifold consisted two main parts; the plenum and the runner. You can see the runner part in some pictures here, it was designed to allow easy welding. That was one of the main improvements in this second manifold design I did.
Small update, today I installed knock sensor and modified adaptronic wiring to accept the ethanol content sensor. Knock sensor at least senses backround noises, it will be interesting to see how well it works when on dyno.
I also cut rear side panels from carbon sheet. After getting the efi gasoline setup complete, I'll order rollcage. Any recommedations for rollcage?
Next I'll try the car with old map and hope to pass the mot.
Woznaldo
05-08-2010, 23:50
What model optima red top battery are you using and where are you tapping the manifold for the brake servo and crankcase vetilation?
What model optima red top battery are you using and where are you tapping the manifold for the brake servo and crankcase vetilation?
I'll check the optima model next time I see my car. The brake servo connection is in the plenum behind the manifold close to original place. Crankcase ventilation is at the moment routed only to oil catch tank (see the picture). I'm still not sure if I want to connect the oil catch tank to the telephone hose.
Woznaldo
07-08-2010, 01:55
:agree:
Good and bad news, I was on the dyno Wednesday to map the car.
Everything went well first and I could really feel and see improvement in low-mid rpm torque. I got 106bhp at 4000rpm from the engine while doing basic mapping. EVO1 intake manifold was designed to work at high rpm (and didn't flow as good anyway) and only gave me 68bph at same boost and rpm and I didn't even got a change to optimize ignition advance at 4000rpm.. I didn't have change to map the rest since the car started to smoke smelling like burnt oil. :(
I did quick compression test and it was fine. So that leaves me basicly valveguides&seals or turbo.
I took the head off since the guides weren't replaced two years ago when I rebuilt the engine. The intake guides had leaked but I still doubt that they could leak that much since the car smoked even at idle. The head is now waiting for k-line guides to be fitted at motorworkshop. I'll get it back in the middle of next week. It will be interesting to see if the burnt oil problem was at the guides
Anyway, I might need to start either rebuilding my T25 or buying new turbo, a T28 perhaps? My T25 is a 200SX one with 0.49 exhaust housing. What would be suitable replacement, I want something that can give me 19-20psi without fear of breaking the turbo, also I want to avoid lag as much as possible.
Forgot, the boost was 0,8bar at both runs (new and old)
Andrew Cooke
20-08-2010, 15:29
sounds like turbo, if you remove it you will probably see that the exhaust side is oily and the manifold side dry.
Your turbo sounds about the right size to me.
I'm thinking it's the turbo too but decided to replace the guides first as they are cheaper and I knew that they were worn.
The inlet side of the turbo is perfectly dry, I haven't opened the exhaust side yet. There is some side play in the shaft but not in the axial direction.
Andrew Cooke
20-08-2010, 15:44
I'm thinking it's the turbo too but decided to replace the guides first as they are cheaper and I knew that they were worn.
The inlet side of the turbo is perfectly dry, I haven't opened the exhaust side yet. There is some side play in the shaft but not in the axial direction.
it'll be the exhaust side that's wet, may as well pop it off now...
I'll take a look on Sunday when I'll go and work with the car again.
it'll be the exhaust side that's wet, may as well pop it off now...
Right you were. I took the turbo of and it had huge amount of axial play. So next I need a new one or rebuild.
What model optima red top battery are you using and where are you tapping the manifold for the brake servo and crankcase vetilation?
There's part number on picture, hope that helps.
Right you were. I took the turbo of and it had huge amount of axial play. So next I need a new one or rebuild.
All right, I have three offers for new turbo so far
-T25 with 0.49 turbine housing (same which I had) £600+vat
-TD04 with about same specs as t25 above but this has 360deg bearing. £600+vat
-GT2854R with 0.49 turbine housing. £895+vat
I don't like the idea of buying another T25 with std bearings. TD04 needs some mods on downpipe flange at least. GT2854R is most expensive but with 0.49 turbine housing I think it could work more reliable and a bit less laggier than T25?
What do you think?
Andrew Cooke
25-08-2010, 13:15
have you had a price to rebuild your existing turbo?
have you had a price to rebuild your existing turbo?
I was told that with as much axial play as I had it would have propably been as much as new T25.
Andrew Cooke
25-08-2010, 13:29
do you have on old turbo to run for a bit? I'd say go for the roller, but if your turbo died because of oil contamination, or lack of oil supply it'll be an expensive thing to break.
do you have on old turbo to run for a bit? I'd say go for the roller, but if your turbo died because of oil contamination, or lack of oil supply it'll be an expensive thing to break.
Unfortunately I don't have any old turbos lying around anymore.. I had the T25 for year and half and have no knowledge on history of the unit before that. I was told it had been serviced when I bought it. It had all the plastic plugs in place which new/serviced units usually have so I believed it. But I can't be sure about the quality of the service work or about the condition the turbo was in before service.
I have a braided oil feed and quite std oil return. The oil return flange is different in T25 so I installed 45deg connector. In my understanding the oil return should work better than std since hose from original system had to make too tight bent just under the turbo.
Oil was fresh, I changed it just the day before going to dyno. I use Valvoline 20W 50 and I drove 50 miles before dyno with the new oil. It might still have some crap in it so I think I'll add inline filter anyway.
The original oil pressure sensor is in the turbo oil feed pipe, so the feed side should be okay if the readings are good, right? I can remove the oil return pipe from the sump and check that there's oil coming through nicely during start of the engine (without starting the car).
Small updates;
I installed new spal fan today. I made the brackets out of leftover carbon sheet. It seems to work a lot better than the old fan.
I installed cgb-motorsport style gauge holder plate out of the same leftover carbon sheet. I currently have afr and boost there. Still trying to figure out what will be the third gauge.
More updates;
I bought the GT2854R with 0.49a/r exhaust housing from turbo dynamics.
I added flange for idle control valve to inlet manifold and then anodized the manifold to add chemical protection.. anodizing cost me only 20€ + 10 minutes of chitchat :)
tomorrow Ill start assembly once again
Woznaldo
08-09-2010, 06:36
It's getting there Harri. Looking forward to getting some power figures and a hint at the potential. :)
yeah me too. I've had some bad luck witth this one, first breaking gearbox with the first intake manifold and now the turbo. I suppose next I have to rebuild the bottom end again.
I started to install new turbo unit today. While trying to sort out the oil feed pipe I noticed that I don't have any oneway valve in the oil feed. The original system has one. I'm guessing that missing this might have shortened my last turbos life.
TrixNFlix
26-09-2010, 17:13
I started to install new turbo unit today. While trying to sort out the oil feed pipe I noticed that I don't have any oneway valve in the oil feed. The original system has one. I'm guessing that missing this might have shortened my last turbos life.
Im not sure about that Harri, as quite a few people like me run without them and have no issues.
Here's some updates, she is almost ready to run again. I just need to finish the new oil return and for that I'm waiting one bent hose.
New turbo unit is installed now. I installed inline filter there along with new, hopefully better, oil return line.
I decided to add idle control valve to my manifold to ease cold starts and general adjustment. The valve is from a zetec ford engine. You can also see the manifold is anodized now and looks a bit different.
I also finally machined new plug to cover the distributor and give some more space for water hoses.
Woznaldo
24-10-2010, 10:42
Lovin your work Harri. :agree:
I can can see several different brands on parts attached to the plenum, I take it the Ford item is some kind of idle control valve? The Audi part is a FPR? and the injectors are Bosch Red Tops from a SAAB 9000 Turbo?
I've also got a question about the pipe that connects before and after the throttle body. What is it's purpose?
Woz
Lovin your work Harri. :agree:
I can can see several different brands on parts attached to the plenum, I take it the Ford item is some kind of idle control valve? The Audi part is a FPR? and the injectors are Bosch Red Tops from a SAAB 9000 Turbo?
I've also got a question about the pipe that connects before and after the throttle body. What is it's purpose?
Woz
All three guesses right, my Renault is partly made in Germany, USA and Sweden :).
Injectors were recommended by Scoff, rest are just parts which I came by when I tried to source something suitable. If I had to choose again, I wouldn't use the Audi FPR, rather something which can be connected with merely hoses and doesn't require base which needs to be welded. For example one in the Opel C20NE engines would be easier.
Also my fuel pump & filter is from Escort if I remember correctly. So there's some more Ford aswell.
The by-pass pipe to plenum is for the idle valve.
Woznaldo
19-04-2011, 11:21
How's it all going Harri? Any updates?
How's it all going Harri? Any updates?
Everything is good and actually there are plenty of updates. These days I just haven't had time to do updates, but heres some
For the engine side I've purchased a Zeitronix E85 kit and my plan is to make two set of maps one for normal gasoline and one for 85% ethanol. With the kit I'm hoping to correct both fuel and ignition and hopefully I'm able to convert the C1J to a flexfuel vehicle. One restriction will be my 360cc injectors so at the beginning Im going to drop the boost a bit to see if the injectros will be big enough. At the moment I'm thinking that I should have the car on dyno in June.
For the body side I've spent last 6 months mostly making molds (and actually first finished parts aswell). I currently have molds made out of front bumper, right front fender, front grill, both skirts, rear upper light trims and rear boot panel. The rear under light trims are already done as well as the hood which I did a year ago. The molds are made with polyester gelcoat and epoxy/woven glass laminate then vacuum bagged with minimal vacuum pressure (like 2psi). This will ensure better quality molds. Here are some pictures of the molds, I'll add pictures from the under light trims trimmed and installed soon. The actual parts are mady with uv-protected epoxy/3k twill carbon and depending on part there may be some glass between carbon layers just to cut down costs. These are vacuum bagged in about 8psi. I'm using 200g/m2 carbon and 300g/m3 glass so the weight difference is not much.
I'm also doing preparations for second front fender, rear bumper and rear arch panels at the moment. I should have molds made from them in couple of months. Then finally I will do the doors maybe next winter.
Since Renault uses really cheap and crappy plastic in all the trims, most of the parts suffer damage when releasing the mold. Luckily I have some 5 campus parts to use while making the carbon part.
As you can see in the picture with skirts, everything doesn't always work as it should work. In case of surface damage with the mold I have to either add some more gelcoat, sand and polish the damaged area, paint the whole mold or make a new one.
Here is also one picture from my clio which has now new color. It has been delaying the 5 project. On the right ;) you can see from which car the color is from.
Here's three pictures from my never ending project.
First one is showing one under light trim ready and fitted. Nice 70% weight saving. I can now order one more bigmac at macdonalds and still have the same performance while driving my R5.
Second one shows upper light trim molds polished and ready for laminating. I will laminate them propably some time next week.
Third one is front grill mold which was made from original gtt phase 2 grill after cutting and adding lots of filler to it. This should be also ready soon, just few more spots in the gelcoat.
Time for small update. I laminated upper light trim yesterday. It has 2 layers of carbon and one glass between. The glass is there for cutting some of the costs. the weight difference between glass and carbon is 100g/m2 with the same thickness. Hopefully I have time to do the second trim before going to dyno with the car next week.
I'm starting to think that the 5 will look quite pervert after I get everything done. I'm also hoping to go under 700kg with rollcage.
Here's pictures from the second upper light trim which I laminated today. On first picture there's sheets of carbon fiber, glass and vacuum bagging cloths ready. On second picture the part is in vacuum bag curing.
I also got the engine running again today. It has been 6 months since it ran last time. It started on first try, naturally.
I got the ethanol sensor working as well. It seems that the 98E5 which I had in my fuel tank has only 3 percent ethanol. I'll still have to connect the sensor to adaptronic before going to dyno.
I had the car on dyno yesterday. this time I decided to go with really small boost, the car had only 0.6 bar of boost. this was due to the major problems I had last autumn and I want to make sure that everything works before going back to 1.3-1.4 bar again.
I managed to map the car up to 6000rpm and then decided to measure the power output. results are really promising, the car gave 136bhp with only 0.6 bar of boost. i will upload power chart later after doing the second part today. i should have no problems achieving the 200bhp target I have. maybe I can even squeeze a bit more ;)
As I told before, my plan was to convert the car to run as flexifuel so ethanol percentage can vary between 0 to 85. today Im going to map the car with 85 percent ethanol and after that I can build convergence values for both fuel and ignition. Im guessing that I should see only minor improvements in power with the small amount of boost Im using now. the bigger improvements should come after increasing boost since when running on ethanol it should be quite difficult to get the engine to knock.
Here's powerchart from yesterday with petrol and from today with E85 mixed with petrol to 33% ethanol. This was due having too much petrol in fuel tank. Everything worked well but with so low boost the engine didn't knock with petrol and there was no ignition advance gain to be had. Petrol I'm using had 98 octane rating and I calculated that my mix had about 100 octane rating.
I added 9% fuel trim to compencate the ethanol but still the engine didn't have as much torque as yesterday which is something I have to investigate.
the car was on scale as well. Corner weights are FL 241kg, FR 276.5kg, RL141.5, RR 123.5 making it total 782.5kg with half tank of fuel. It's a bit more than I had calculated so I will just have to continue my laminating project to save some weight.
Excellent torque on petrol at only 0.6 bar :agree:
Excellent torque on petrol at only 0.6 bar :agree:
Thanks, the car also felt quite different when I drove it on road today compared to my first efi manifold and T25.
Woznaldo
28-06-2011, 00:43
Nice work Harri. I've been thinking of using E85 on my EFI conversion but have been a bit worried about the corrosive nature it may have on certain fuel system components. Have you had any problems with this?
I'm hoping that the EFI will make the car far more drivable more than making massive power.
Nice work Harri. I've been thinking of using E85 on my EFI conversion but have been a bit worried about the corrosive nature it may have on certain fuel system components. Have you had any problems with this?
I'm hoping that the EFI will make the car far more drivable more than making massive power.
I have some experience with E85 but this was the first time with my R5. I have some connections to the biggest oil refinery in Finland and had a discussion earlier about using ethanol blends in a car which wasn't originally designed for that. I'm also using E10 fuel in my wifes 97 Clio RN which is not officially approved by renault. :cool:
For the R5; my fuel lines, rail and intake manifold are made keeping the ethanol in mind and they should be quite safe. Generally you should avoid natural rubbers and pure aluminum. Also you should use only petrol from time to time to "lubricate" fuel system components, ethanol leaves everything too dry.
I'm a bit worried about long term behavior of the fuel tank. I actually thought about welding one from proper aluminum but haven't done that yet. I think I'm just going to check condition of every component related to fueling next winter.
More progress on the bodywork side; both upper light trims and front grill are done but all of them are still untrimmed. I'll add some black mesh to the grill and it should look quite good after that. The picture is quite poor actually, it doesn't show the surface properly.
I would actually prefer having the OE look with carbon but the grill shapes were just too difficult to be made by handlaminating&vacuumbagging. That's why I decided to go with the open mouth look. I have modified front and rear bumpers a bit for the same reasons.
I laminated tailgate lower panel/trim yesterday, but it's still in vacuum bag.
Rear upper trims fitted, they look quite good. I cut attachments from original trims and bodned them to the carbon fiber ones. New trims weight 200g/part less than original ones. Tailgate trim needs a bit more work with the lock before it's ready but it fits already quite nicely. The problem is actually with the RM glass fiber tailgate which is bit too thick. This causes problems with the lock.
I also laminated RH front wing but it's not fitted yet.
Rear upper trims fitted, they look quite good. I cut attachments from original trims and bodned them to the carbon fiber ones. New trims weight 200g/part less than original ones..
More brilliant work! If you can get a good finish and fit on the front wings it's an amazing modification! :eek:
"New trims weight 200g/part less than original ones."
Andy Cooke take note about how to take weight out of an R5 :laugh: ;)
Woznaldo
19-07-2011, 09:50
Nice work Harri :cool:
200 grams is a fair amount for a small item that's already pretty light as standard.
I hope you're making a note of all the before after weights so we can see what the total weight saving is?
I know that the hardest part of making carbon pieces is making the moulds. Are your moulds re-useable?
I know that the hardest part of making carbon pieces is making the moulds. Are your moulds re-useable?
Yes and no, they are made with high quality epoxy resin and woven glass fiber which gives accurate, flexible and durable molds in principal but they have two problems which limit the re-use; I'm making complex forms from one piece molds which means I need to use quite lot of force to release the part from mold. This means that the gelcoat surface of the mold might suffer damage and carbon fiber part may need to be repolished after releasing. This equals to a lot more labor for me but cuts down the mold material costs. Also, the gelcoat I'm using is a bit old and it tends to suffer small damages here and there when I have released the mold from original part. This is something which I will replace with better one soon.
Okay, I finally tried the front wing to see how well it fits, It still doesn't have upper fixings but it already fits better than the original one. In picture the gap between wing and hood is actually much smaller after doing the upper fittings. What I also really like is the extra space the gtt-arch extension, which is now part of the wing, gives to the wheels. I will post second picture after getting fittings for this wing and front grill complete.
One problem I noticed is that I might need to add some stiffeners to my hood after all. I just don't want to increase the 2kg weight of the hood :cry:
I noticed that this wing mold didn't actually suffer any damage during front wing laminating and decided that I could do a set of one-off gelcoat-glass fiber wings for sale after getting the second wing mold and my own part done first. If you're interested, pm me.
Small update; the front grill now has new mesh and all the fixings, it looks quite nice. I also have some new gelcoat which should hopefully solve the issues I have had with my molds. I'll make molds out of gtt rear arch extensions soon and then I'll know.
okay, here's some weight updates:
new front grill with mesh and all the fittings 265g
new tailgate panel with lock and fittings 471g. Old one was 761g with lock.
Does anyone have oe front grill they could put on the scale? I modified mine to make the carbon fiber "open mouth" one and don't have any idea how much oe grill weights. I'm guessing it weights something like double compared to mine.
Woznaldo
15-08-2011, 10:10
Nice work as always Harri. :agree:
Have you got any pictures of the tailgate?
Nice work as always Harri. :agree:
Have you got any pictures of the tailgate?
no new pictures about the rear end yet, but tailgate panel I'm talking about is the panel which has lock, badges and register number lights just to make myself clear. My actual tailgate is glass fiber one bouth from Reichhard Motorsport.
Here's picture of the fixings in the back of the panel. One of them had poor adhesion and I needed to fix that, I'll take another picture when everything is installed again.
btw Finally someone comments, I was already thinking about stopping to write this thread since there hasn't been really almost any conversation lately. :cry:
I also have some new gelcoat which should hopefully solve the issues I have had with my molds. I'll make molds out of gtt rear arch extensions soon and then I'll know.
I laminated one arch extension mold yesterday, this time I used new gelcoat with the finest woven glass fiber fabric available just to make sure that everything goes perfectly this time. Today I released the mold from original part and it seems that all the problems I had before were gelcoat related since this mold was perfect :D
Here's pictures from arch extension before mold making, gelcoat surface, vacuum bag and actual mold released from the part.
I just need to trim the edges of the mold and then I can laminate the actual part.
dangerous dave
15-08-2011, 17:19
thats looking badical...:cool:
Here's the rear end with new tailgate panel installed. It's still missing carbon gtt rear bumper and arch extensions but I'm working with those and I should have all the molds done soon. Also, every carbon part will be coated with PU-clear coating, this will give them better UV protection and also the surface reflection will be totally uniform. Now due to some polishing I've done to fix some small defects the reflection varies a bit by part.
I find myself already thinking that I should do carbon tailgate as well to be able to leave it unpainted. :cool: Well, if I do that it will be the last part, after everything else is done first.
Harri, you have got to carbon fibre the tailgate aswell. Loving the project, loving the fact you have done all of it yourself from building and desigining the EFI and then doing the light body panels. Totally fantastic keep up the good work and keep the picutres flowing:D:agree:
Thanks, I will keep updating as long as this thread has some readers and conversation.
super looks amazing! keep up the good work!
Big Steve - Raider
17-08-2011, 22:30
Thanks, I will keep updating as long as this thread has some readers and conversation.
Hi Harri!!
Sorry you've not had a very good response to your posts, it's nothing personal mate, don't worry! I didn't see any of your thread until today :ashamed: but i'm glad I did!!
You're doing a smashing job mate! Keep up the good work!!
I'm really impressed with the Carbon Panels you're making!! Is the plan to leave the bare carbon or are you looking to paint it all??
Steve :D
Nice to get new readers here.
I'm going to leave those parts unpainted, just add some clear coating. Otherwise using carbon rather than good glass fiber would not make much sense. The weight difference between woven, not chopped strand, mats is not nearly as bad as people usually think. That's why I actually have some glass fiber between carbon layers on the parts I have made. This saves a lot.
However, this is only true with non-structural parts where carbon fibers outstanding mech. Properties aren't really needed.
BluntyR5GTT
18-08-2011, 05:56
this is an absolute fantastic project in fact its my favorite on here atm keep up with it fella
this is an absolute fantastic project in fact its my favorite on here atm keep up with it fella
thanks, I hope that this will carry on living with your expectations ;)
I've been quite satisfied with the R5 as a project car, It's not too complicated body- or enginewise which makes modifying everything quite easy. Orinally I paid 300€ for the r5 prima shell and 0€ for the gtt from which I took the c1j engine. However, since then I've spent quite fortune on rebuilding everything.
btw, my vacuum pump for vacuum bagging, which is the only special tool you need in the beginning, cost only $60, so starting laminating project isn't that expensive.
Does anyone have oe front grill they could put on the scale? I modified mine to make the carbon fiber "open mouth" one and don't have any idea how much oe grill weights. I'm guessing it weights something like double compared to mine.
If someone can scale them, I would like to know also how much front and rear bumpers weight since I already modified mine with lots and lots of filler.
I love this project, some brilliant new things that I don't think anyone has ever done to a GTT before, please keep updating it.
You'll have to tie the car down when it's parked so the wind doesn't blow it away :D
If someone can scale them, I would like to know also how much front and rear bumpers weight since I already modified mine with lots and lots of filler.
Phase 2 Front grill (unpainted) is 520 grams, badge is another 50. Bumper is too heavy for my kitchen scales :)
BluntyR5GTT
18-08-2011, 14:56
thanks, I hope that this will carry on living with your expectations ;)
I've been quite satisfied with the R5 as a project car, It's not too complicated body- or enginewise which makes modifying everything quite easy. Orinally I paid 300€ for the r5 prima shell and 0€ for the gtt from which I took the c1j engine. However, since then I've spent quite fortune on rebuilding everything.
btw, my vacuum pump for vacuum bagging, which is the only special tool you need in the beginning, cost only $60, so starting laminating project isn't that expensive.
i think your too modest there mate, you seem to make things looks easy:cool:
would you be interested in making panels etc for fellow rtoc members?
Ph2 front bumper (unpainted) is 7.8kgs not inc bumpstrips 400grms or fogs ? or plate ? or any other fixings. Sorry don't have a spare rear bumper.
Ph2 front bumper (unpainted) is 7.8kgs not inc bumpstrips 400grms or fogs ? or plate ? or any other fixings. Sorry don't have a spare rear bumper.
thanks for the info. I'll have to scale the mold which I already have to get an estimate what's the actual part going to be
i think your too modest there mate, you seem to make things looks easy:cool:
would you be interested in making panels etc for fellow rtoc members?
Yes I could, but at the moment only with woven glass fiber and gelcoat. I still have too much issues mainly related to my working premises and some tools I have which can alter the surface quality of the carbon fiber part. Since the carbon cloth costs quite lot Im not willing to take the risk of making b-grade carbon parts.
edited: this means that I could make parts which are still lighter than OE ones, they don't have any rust issues being composite, but they would need to be painted having easily sandable gelcoat surface on them.
I had quite good evening today; I finally have rear bumper and second front arch ready for mold making. I had to modify the bumper quite lot to make mold making possible but actually the result is not that bad, I would still prefer the OE look though.
There's also picture where I bonded the rear emblems to aluminum plates. Everyone should guess what happens next.
Also I have soon fixed gelcoat damages with those three molds which were made with the old and cheap (free) polyester gelcoat I had.
Phase 2 Front grill (unpainted) is 520 grams, badge is another 50. Bumper is too heavy for my kitchen scales :)
Thanks! So my grill weights only 265/570 = 46% of the original weight. :cool:
I love this project, some brilliant new things that I don't think anyone has ever done to a GTT before, please keep updating it.
You'll have to tie the car down when it's parked so the wind doesn't blow it away :D
I actually have this problem with my hood, last summer I had to do some urgent maintenance in Helsinki centrum during rush hour and the wind constantly tried to blow away my hood. It took some minor marks because of that. Luckily it doesn't have clear coat yet.
thanks for the info. I'll have to scale the mold which I already have to get an estimate what's the actual part going to be
my front bumper mold was 3,6 kg. I think I can squeeze the actual bumper down to 2,5kg if I'm lucky. This would include all the fittings and mesh but not the reg plate.
crazy, super well done on the cf parts..
I have in the past created fibreglass molds and thats hard enough, i looked into carbon fibre and thought.. fOOK that !.
Big Credit due!
TNT Tricky Nicky
28-08-2011, 22:15
i must admit i haven't looked in on your project for a long time now as i thought it was mainly focusing on the efi conversion which i don't think is a route i'd go down personally but credit where credit is due, well done :agree:
i like what you are doing with the carbon fibre parts, just a shame i can not see all your photos at the min. i'll be looking in more often now i know what's going on
keep up the good work
Thanks all for your encouragement! It's nice to see that this thread is getting more readers.
Yesterday I laminated second frontarch (LH) mold and released the second reararch (RH) mold. Today I added some leftover heat resistant gelcoat with heat resistant epoxy to those "renault5" and "gtturbo" emblems. This should allow me to go upto 130C when curing part, my plan is to use something special for those emblems. It will be interesting to see how well this works. Eitherway I have quite plenty of molds waiting for final trimming and actual part making. I've concentrated on making the molds lately due to having all the necessary stuff for making them but not having enough CF for actual parts.
I'll try to laminate rear bumper mold during sunday, after that I have all the molds except doors made. Doors are currently under work, I need to add lots of filler and sand them a lot to get them straight. I also see myself already thinking of CF semi-gloss dashboard.:dearme:
today was a good day again.. the second front arch mold was quite perfect, this time I knew that original sheetmetal part needs to be sacrified to composite gods in order to save the mold from possible damage.
I also finally made aluminium fittings for the first front arch and bolted it on. I put it on scale and it weighted 690g with aluminium part and fittings while original weighted 3200g. I'll have rethink my original plan of losing only 50% of weight from each part. :smokin:
I have made so good progress lately that I think Mr. Murphy will soon strike me wight lightning or something.
Big Steve - Raider
30-08-2011, 18:43
I like how you're fastening the wings to the car Harri!! :niceone:
I wondered how you were going to make a 2 dimensional wing with a 3rd dimension fixing! Nicely done & it looks impressive.
I used 1mm aluminum sheet for that. I just bend it on 3rd direction quite easily against my knee.
Bruce - BHPerformance
31-08-2011, 09:13
I have just spotted this thread and read it from start to finish.
I am very impressed with your work and am loving the weight savings with the carbon.
My old 5 was 805kg with all std body parts and rollcage so with your parts 700kg should be easy. :D
Wish I had the time and patience to do bodywork like that. I had to pay someone to do mine. :ashamed:
Was your weight with interior and all extra removed? With or without full tank? My original almost std condition weight was 850kg, I somehow thought that gtt would weight bit less than that. This was with quarter tank of fuel wo spare wheel. My body shell is not gtt, it's gtx
Bruce - BHPerformance
31-08-2011, 22:52
All plastics no rears and buckets not std seats, full tank of fuel, no spare wheel.
While I've been busy with all that laminating I'm constantly thinking about my flexfuel conversion project. The car runs nicely with small boost but I'm afraid my 360cc bosch red injectors are insufficient with 200+ bhp when running on ethanol. So I'm thinking I should have 30% more flow with the injectors due to having to burn 30% more fuel when running with ethanol. Does anyone know which injector I could use to replace mine? I'm looking for something which is a direct fit. My red ones are the ones from aero saab.
Today Mr. Murphy finally came to visit my project. Those rear emblem molds I tried to make had some cracks and second one broke during release. Problem was related to making too rigid mold with too thick layer of gelcoat which is then quite britle. Luckily I didn't damage those emblems too much so I will try again. Next time I'll make more flexible molds that when releasing the original part I can get it out. After release I will strengthen the mold and it should be ok..
One thing that did go as it should was the surface of the mold. You can see brushed looking surface on the letters and cast looking on the bottom. It will look extremely awesome when those surfaces are on carbon fiber.
Woznaldo
03-09-2011, 12:28
Harri, are you using a Carbon Fibre kit or have you sourced the different resins and cloths individually?
No kit I'm afraid, everything is bought separately. I have quite good contacts with two major importers here in Finland due to my work but actually last time I bought my carbon and vacuum bagging materials from fibermax which is in Greece. They have very competitive prices especially with twill woven carbon (this is the type I prefer) and vacuum bagging materials.
web page: http://www.fibermaxcomposites.com
Woznaldo
04-09-2011, 10:36
Harri, I work in the aircraft industry so I can get the resin and carbon cloth in various weaves for 'training' to keep my skills up. I mainly do repairs, although haven't for some time now as I've been promoted to management (booooooo!). That said, the rule still applies.
The repairs I generally do (or should that be my team) don't require a mold so I don't really use gel coats. What I have got are lots of release tapes that the resin won't stick to but, you have to butt the seams together perfectly for a good finish.
Harri, I work in the aircraft industry so I can get the resin and carbon cloth in various weaves for 'training' to keep my skills up.
Yes, it's good to "train" yourself by laminating something to your personal purposes every once in a while ;) That's how I originally learned how to tig weld.
Phoenix Autosport
04-09-2011, 17:32
hope you dont mind but a couple of tips that may help you with the badges,
1. dont pigment the gelcoat on a mold that intricate as it will reduce the strength and also spread the gel realy thin, literaly bare minimum.
2. do your first layer over as a wet layup (not infusion) with fibreglass tissue and work it into every nook and cranny making sure there are no air bubbles and the tissue is tight against the gel, matchsticks and lolly sticks are great for doing this.
3. try using a chopped strand mat to back it up as it breaks down to be a lot more pliable than woven mat.
not criticising in any way as your work looks to be very good, just trying to help where i can ;)
hope you dont mind but a couple of tips that may help you with the badges,
1. dont pigment the gelcoat on a mold that intricate as it will reduce the strength and also spread the gel realy thin, literaly bare minimum.
2. do your first layer over as a wet layup (not infusion) with fibreglass tissue and work it into every nook and cranny making sure there are no air bubbles and the tissue is tight against the gel, matchsticks and lolly sticks are great for doing this.
3. try using a chopped strand mat to back it up as it breaks down to be a lot more pliable than woven mat.
not criticising in any way as your work looks to be very good, just trying to help where i can ;)
I don't mind, any advice is always welcome especially from someone who does these things as pro, my work is related more on the structural composites and I don't normally do molds or use any gelcoat. This is why I've used epoxies and woven mats for my molds, I'm simply more used to working with them and I really hate the smell of polyester resin.
1) I didn't pigment it, Axson which is the manufacturer sells this only blue if talking about sensible package sizes. I have actually started to like the color, it helps me to see when the fiber is wetted properly during handlaminating. My original worry was how to get glass fiber to bend on those thight edges and I didn't realise the gel would be too brittle if the layer was too thick. I'm planning to do really thin gelcoat next time as you suggested.
2) I'm using infusion pump but I'm actually handlaminating everything at the moment. The pump is just for vacuum bagging use which has been really helpful with tight corners and shapes most of the panels have.
3) I'll have to think about this, problem is that chopped strand mat is meant for polyester resin and it doesn't break that easy with epoxy resin. I think that maybe I could cut some chopped strand from woven glass and put it on the tight put-holes first. After that I could back them with maybe 2 or 3 layers of 300g/m2 plain glass fiber. This+thin gelcoat would propably give me little flexible mold which would ease the releasing of the original part from mold. Again, I think I will vacuumbag this to minimize voids.
I laminated GTTurbo emblem mold again today. It has really thin layer of gelcoat, some chopped strand glass in those tight corners and three layers of woven glass in top. It's in vacuumbag at the moment. I'm feeling positive about it but we shall see.
I also released rear bumper mold which came out to be excellent. I'm really happy that I switched gelcoat month ago.
Woznaldo
06-09-2011, 11:16
Loving it Harri. :agree:
Your progress is making me feel guilty! :ashamed:
thanks, I've been workin hard lately to get all the molds done since we are moving in to new house tomorrow and my garage moves there too by the end of the month. I'll have to set up working space for laminating and sanding and such so you can expect fewer updates during autumn and winter.
It's almost there but not quite. My second try on badge mold was quite lot better than the first one. It now only has few corners where there wasn't enough chopped glass to fill the tight corner which caused some pit-holes. I think I'll retry this method but this time I'll add lot more chopped glass and less woven.
I don't even want to think how difficult it's going to be make CF part with woven out of that mold. Luckily this is such small part that material costs for trying are not high.
Finally update; I've been quite busy setting up my new working space but last weekend I finally managed to laminate the "GTturbo" emblem third time.
Third try was basically almost same as second, this time I used more chopped glass and aligned the woven stuff behind the chopped in a way which would allow maximum bending of the fibers. I also used different vacuum bagging plastic which is more flexible allowing thight spots. Result is quite perfect, finally!
Its quite difficult to see the brushed vs matt surfaces in the emblemmold picture attached, but in right light even the mold looks quite cool. Next I will do the same with carbon fiber just adding the woven layers first and then the chopped ones. I'll hope it works.
Looks great. Looking forward to seeing the first one out of the bag! :D
I made some progress last weekend when I finally laminated the second front arch. I had a leakage, or even two, with my vacuumbag which I just couldn't find. Therefore expectations on the part where quite low. I will burn that vacuum-bag in hellfire for this.
In the end it came out quite ok. Because of the vacuum problems it has few spots which need some resin but it's good enough for saving. Especially since materials for the part of this size cost quite lot.
This is the first part I've made with the new blue gelcoat. Surface gloss is unbelivable. Too bad that I need to sand it a bit to repair the dry spots.
Rear arch moulds are ready for part making, I'll propably make one next weekend already.
Also, in the frontarch pictures you can see the oven I made for postcuring laminated or painted parts. It's made out of styrene foam and the size is enough for all the parts I can make for of my R5. I can go up to 60C with the oven if needed.
Would be good to see a collated list of all the parts you think you're going to make with this method and then an idea of how many you've done and how many are left to do. So we can watch you tick them off :)
TNT ANDY
26-11-2011, 13:58
Absolutely fantastic stuff Harri - keep up the good work.
:agree::agree::agree:
Would be good to see a collated list of all the parts you think you're going to make with this method and then an idea of how many you've done and how many are left to do. So we can watch you tick them off :)
Good idea, I'll edit the first post and add list there. I'm actually getting a bit confused about the progress too.
Good idea, I'll edit the first post and add list there. I'm actually getting a bit confused about the progress too.
okay, it's there. I'll try to keep it updated.
Smart :)
Bloody hell, you're going to do the doors! :eek:
That's the plan. I will make two molds; one for the outer and one for the inner skin. There are also some U-shaped profiles guiding the window. I'll just replace those by bending suitable profiles from thin aluminum. It worked nicely with the front arch.
LH outer skin is almost ready for painting and mould making but the inner skin will require lot of work. I will have to use filler to smooth all the unnecessary forms out first before even making the mould.
CGB sells nice hinge-kit which I'm planning to use: http://www.cgbmotorsport.net/door-hinge-bracket-torx-style-1118-p.asp
Here is the first carbon fiber rear arch. It weights only 180g directly from the mold. Surface also looks really good. I'll try to make the second rear arch later this week.
Good god man that's some damn fine work, your gunna have everyone wanting stuff done
Thanks. As I stated earlier I could make glass fiber parts out of the moulds if someone wanted. Carbon parts are a bit of problem. With my moulds/manufacturing tech there is a high risk of getting at least one small air bubble in the surface which basicly spoils the part if wanting to sell them perfect.
Normally if I get those spots, I will just repair them by adding some epoxy, sanding and polishing the spot away. This takes a lot of time however.
5alldaway
29-11-2011, 10:41
excellent work! its good to see other parts on the car getting the carbon fibre treatment!
Does anyone have rear OE rear arches which they could put on the scales?
I did the second rear arch last week. Result is as good as or even better than the first rear arch.
This one wieghts 220g while the RH side weights only 180g. This is strange, I'll have to scale the first one again. One solution might be that I might have added one extra layer of CFto the second arch by mistake. Eitherway I found my OE RH rear arch, which was showing 630g on the scales meaning both of the arches are well below my 50% weigth gain goal.
I'll try to do the CF version of "GTTurbo" emblem next. Hopefully I get it right the first time.
i was going to make moulds of the front of my car, bonnet bumper grill wing doors, but as you have them done would you sell the moulds or even make up a set (even if they dont appear perfect?
i was going to make moulds of the front of my car, bonnet bumper grill wing doors, but as you have them done would you sell the moulds or even make up a set (even if they dont appear perfect?
Hi, I won't sell my moulds but I could make parts to sell if we can agree on what's expected / acceptable surface quality. Im assuming that you want CF parts which will be left unpainted?
I did the third try with "Renault 5" and I finally got perfect mould.
Penfold aka The Dealer
18-12-2011, 08:26
Once again Harri amazing work, this is going to be a one of special car when completed :)
TrixNFlix
18-12-2011, 09:32
Super work Harri, this car is going to be very special indeed! :):agree:
Hi, I won't sell my moulds but I could make parts to sell if we can agree on what's expected / acceptable surface quality. Im assuming that you want CF parts which will be left unpainted?
Have you any idea of prices yet Harri?
Big Steve - Raider
18-12-2011, 13:26
Great work Harri!! :niceone:
We should change your name to Carbonfibre-Harri! :laugh:
Super work Harri, this car is going to be very special indeed! :):agree:
Have you any idea of prices yet Harri?
What part did you have in mind?
TrixNFlix
18-12-2011, 15:52
What part did you have in mind?
Both bumpers, side skirts and arches.
Both bumpers, side skirts and arches.
I'll get back to you later, I want to get succesful parts (out of those moulds) done first before thinking of making more of them.
Andrew Cooke
18-12-2011, 16:34
I'd be interested in lightweight doors/bonnet, but would paint them, so if you get some parts that aren't suitable to leave bare, but are structurally sound keep me in mind :)
I'd be interested in lightweight doors/bonnet, but would paint them, so if you get some parts that aren't suitable to leave bare, but are structurally sound keep me in mind :)
I just gave an offer to other rtoc member regarding outer skin-hood. If you're interested pm me and I can send you details & price of Glass fiber hood which would be only cost-wise alternative if you are going to paint it anyway.
TrixNFlix
18-12-2011, 18:49
I'll get back to you later, I want to get succesful parts (out of those moulds) done first before thinking of making more of them.
Thanks Harri, keep me posted. :):agree:
Tony Walker
18-12-2011, 21:06
Amazing :D i personally cant wait to see the doors :agree:
this is bit off-topic but I had my clio stored outside during storm which came last Sunday, I have to say that I had some luck with the tree in the picture.
TrixNFlix
29-12-2011, 16:20
:scared:Phew that was close! :eek:
Big Steve - Raider
29-12-2011, 16:37
:scared:Phew that was close! :eek:
:eek: :agree:
WOW!! Lucky guy!!
Looks great. Looking forward to seeing the first one out of the bag! :D
First one came out to be ok. It has few minor air bubbles so I'll propably try to do it again. I've aligned the fibers in 45deg orientation, this way CF will bend better to shapes. It will also look better with 0deg oriented tailgate panel.
romain-gtt
30-12-2011, 14:21
your project looks fantastic !!!!
i really love carbon fiber !!!!!!!!
I'm really excited, it took me 3 tries to get the GTTurbo mould perfect and 3 tries to get the actual part perfect. Edges are still untrimmed.
I changed my plans with the finishing. I will paint the top of the letters red and leave the bottom unpainted showing pure CF surface.
I managed to get result better by adding some clear polyester gelcoat in the surface before laying CF, this smoothed the tight corners. The downside is that CF is not that visible in the areas where theres plenty of gelcoat. That's why I will paint the letters.
From left to right 3 tries:
1st has minor air bubbles in some areas, I didn't use any gelcoat with this. SOLD
2nd has some air between clear gelcoat and CF. SOLD
3rd is the perfect one, also the heaviest due to extra gelcoat.
I have no use for the first two, if interested send me a message. For the right price I could sell the 3rd one as well since I now know how to make them right.
Alastair
06-01-2012, 12:30
Harri, it has been said before but wow what a thread! Keep up the good work, and if you make any light weight parts that are rejects then let me know, or if you are planning on doing doors in glass after you've made the moulds post up as i am sure a few of the racers out there would love to save some weight - the doors are really heavy!
Awesome thread! Cant wait to see the finished car!:smokin:
Harri, it has been said before but wow what a thread! Keep up the good work, and if you make any light weight parts that are rejects then let me know, or if you are planning on doing doors in glass after you've made the moulds post up as i am sure a few of the racers out there would love to save some weight - the doors are really heavy!
Awesome thread! Cant wait to see the finished car!:smokin:
Thanks again for the compliments. I really enjoy doing this since the I hate the quality of OE renault plastic parts and amount of rust in the metal parts.
Tony Walker
06-01-2012, 20:07
u fancy making me a shell? :D
Woznaldo
07-01-2012, 02:35
Loving your work Harri. Impressed by your perseverance!
You will always have trouble getting into the tight corners unless you have some kind of vacuum to pull it together. I have what we call a 'Hot Bonding Controller' at work that we use to add controlled heat and vacuum to a repair. Awesome bit of kit but a little expensive at around GBP15000!!
I need to do some experimenting myself!
Loving your work Harri. Impressed by your perseverance!
You will always have trouble getting into the tight corners unless you have some kind of vacuum to pull it together.
You're absolutely right on the vacuum part. I have used vacuum with every part so far, even the moulds. It helps a lot but doesn't do miracles. Normally I use about 0.1 bar vacuum with the moulds and 0.4 - 0.6bar with the parts.
u fancy making me a shell? :D
I have some experience on those, but you should win a lottery first. :laugh:
Tony Walker
07-01-2012, 19:43
I have some experience on those, but you should win a lottery first. :laugh:
Will a cheque do ??:agree:
There seems to be a curse with these f***ing badges, I need to do everything three times to get them right.
I may have set goals a bit too high when I decided to get perfect finish with two different surfaces glosses, one having brushed finish and one having matt finish.
First I did three "GTturbo" moulds to get perfect one, then three "Renault5" moulds to get perfect one. Same for the parts, third "GTturbo" came out perfect and by the way things are going I will have some small imperfection on the second try of "Renault5" as well.
Here are some pictures from the first "Renault5" which came out good but not perfect.
On the panels I settle with "just good" or even "acceptable" quality since you can sand and repolish the surfaces. But I really want these to be spot-on.
3K twill weave pattern just isn't right for this kind of part.
I scaled 2nd "GTTurbo" and 1st "Renault5" yesterday before posting them, they weighted 11g + 20g untrimmed. Does anyone have OE badges which they could scale, mine are bonded to aluminum plate for mould making.
There seems to be a curse with these f***ing badges, I need to do everything three times to get them right.
Third carbon fiber "Renault5" done and it looks perfect. I've changed the clear gelcoat to another one which gives really clear results. I also changed the whole way of manufacturing them. Results speak for themselves.
In fact they are so good that I'm not going to paint the letters as I previously thought.:D:D:D
Ah, these look a bit more like it :)
Woznaldo
18-01-2012, 03:55
Ah, these look a bit more like it :)
:agree:
I bought silly priced door repair kits from CGB. They should solve my hinge issue which I'm going to face when I get the doors laminated. Progress with preparing old doors for mould making has been slow lately due to badges eating all my time but now I'm going to focus on doors and making CF side skirts. LH outer door panel is sanded and ready for painting and I just started working with inner panel.
I finally did LH skirt yesterday, epoxy curing is like waiting for christmas on 23th. You can already see all the presents but don't really know what's inside before you have opened the (vacuum-) bag. Also, opening too early will definetly spoil the presents.
I just released the LH skirt from mould, it looks really nice even when skirt moulds were the ones which had originally most problems with my old gray gelcoat. It weights 540g w/o trimming or fixings.
Tony Walker
30-01-2012, 19:45
oooooooooh lovely :agree::agree::agree:
Mate I'm looking at all these carbon bits and having a crisis :eek:
I just checked your list of parts on the first post of the thread.
You're getting to the point where you can't put off the doors and bumpers any longer ;)
Yes, it's starting to look like my outer panel-project might actually finish one day. For every £100 spent on CF, I'll save £10 on painting :D since they just need clear coating.
Luckily interior has few panels as well. And then we have roof.. the list of poor-quality renault parts is endless really. ;)
I made the second carbon fiber side skirt last weekend, result looks as good as the first one. There's picture from the b-side as well, I use this special peelply which gives really nice surface.
I'm running out of parts in my to-do list which means I will need to start working with either making door moulds or bumper parts next. I'll start with the doors since I'm almost out of CF and I need to save some £'s to buy more.
Tony Walker
06-02-2012, 19:29
Cant wait for the doors :D
TrixNFlix
06-02-2012, 21:57
Top work as always Harri. ;):agree:
Work in progress with the LH door inner donator. Today I started closing holes in the inner door surface. I marked the ones which will be filled completely and the ones which will be filled just partly. There must be close to 50 holes which I need to fill. Also I will smooth as much of the unnecessary surfaces as I can. I'm running carbon fiber sheet door cards so I don't need most of the stuff which is there.
The idea is to bond aluminum plate under the hole, then add filler and sand the hole smooth. This should be good enough for mould making.
Pete@Backyard Racing
11-02-2012, 21:38
I've just read all 4 pages of this awesome thread!
Keep up the good work :cool:
Almost there now, First I finished bonding too many small aluminum sheets to fill every hole. Then I poured about 2kg of 2K PU foam inside the door. Now I will just have to fill and sand everything.
Tony Walker
19-02-2012, 19:31
Really cant wait to see the outcome :agree: best of luck with it:D
Harri,
This guy seems to be able to make all shapes and sizes of stuff with CF to an amazingly high quality. How similar are the techniques he's using to yours bud? Is there anything you can glean? The varnishes look interesting. Or are you a grand master at this stuff now? :D
Just thought I'd mention it when I saw it. :agree:
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=26686
They're not that similar. They look good, but it seems that he's actually covering wood and filler with CF and resin, lots of resin. After curing you can sand the resin, maybe add some more, sand a lot and finally add clear coating to achieve high gloss. Basicly hes making parts without any molds..and gaining a lot of extra weight. Normally you should try to make master model with those materials, then make mold and finally part.
I'm definetly not grand master in this (yet ;) ) but my one of my goals has always been losing as much weight as possible while having OE look panels in CF finish.
this is certainly offtopic, but the 5GTT has been lately disturbed by my other laminating project. We just did master model milling which will be coated next with paste (filler) and remachined then. After that I'll make six similar molds out of the model and bolt them together to get the final mold for part making. Who can quess what this will be when completed?
Two hints;
-it's not car related
-I have two small daughters who will get this as a present when completed. I wont be using CF with this just plain GF.
I tried today both badge finishes on my tailgate. "Renault5" has matt look and "GTTurbo" has sprayed clear coat (not proper PU-coat). Tailgate trim, as well as other panels, will have clear coat so it should reflect more when done. I think high gloss badge version looks better actually. It might make the text bit difficult to read though.
Also the driver door inner surface is finally quite ready for painting. I'll try to paint them soon for mould making. Already started to work with prepping RH door aswell.
Tony Walker
06-04-2012, 22:20
Door looks :D amazing...... my geuss on the pic is a slide/sled/boat?
No, it will be located on my yard, and kids are the only ones who actually have any use for it.
Badges - Difficult to say which is better based on those pics Harri. It might be easier in natural light and in context (i.e. from further away and when the rear of the car is complete).
Or, maybe it would be worth experimenting painting the letters in the OE style (or in any contrasting colour), just the raised letters I mean. Or perhaps just the badge background, so it's easier for the eye to pick out what the letters are??
Yeah, taking pictures in my garage was a bit difficult. The car is currently surrounded mainly by moulds and other related stuff. I think I will need to do the bumper first (and maybe the tailgate, I haven't decided on that yet) and then I can see if the rear has "enough" CF gloss and what to do with the letters. Painting just the letters was also my original plan but it somehow feels a waste of perfectly good CF surface. :rolleyes:
I just checked your list of parts on the first post of the thread.
You're getting to the point where you can't put off the doors and bumpers any longer ;)
Quite true, I just spent a fortune and ordered 30sqm of twill woven CF. With that amound I should be able to complete my list even if the tailgate is included. Started prepping rear bumper mould so I can make the part as soon as CF arrives.
I made nice progress today. I painted both LH door mould donor parts. I use 2K acrylic spray paint which does the job quite nice with polishing. After polishing they are ready for mould making. I also trial fitted LH panels, they seem to fit just like (or better) the OE ones. Sorry for the poor in-garage pictures but it's finally starting to look like the CF car I want it to be. After the doors I really need to do something with the tailgate though. Unfortunately I already drilled quite lot of holes when fitting it which I need now fill before mould making. Can't wait to get the car on scales again.
Woznaldo
15-04-2012, 15:12
You should see I nice weight change with the doors and tailgate! Lovely work Harri ;)
TrixNFlix
15-04-2012, 17:29
Looks super! It's all coming together!! Nice padlock on bonnet! :D
Yes, at least no one can steal my bonnet in one piece
Tony Walker
15-04-2012, 19:10
Doors look amazing :agree:
Phoenix Autosport
15-04-2012, 19:47
thats some cracking work, very impressed with all the parts so far, are you going to be looking to sell parts once you have all the molds done, may well be interested in some parts for mine :agree:
Yes I could, as long as there's agreement on the expected surface quality and price. You'll propably know how much labour and material costs are involved in epoxy laminates if done properly.
I'll also basicly have to modify my molds to be able to produce multiple parts out of them. They currently don't have any extension in the outer edges from needed geometry which makes releasing parts mold wearing. After making extensions I can also use most of them with infusion to produce parts with less variation and higher fiber volumes.
sounds like a plan , put me down for a set of doors when your ready :cool::D
CF progress list updated ;)
Weight 1570g wo fixings, anyone has OE bumper which they could scale?
It had few small air bubbles trapped between mold surface and first layer. Nothing that can't be fixed with little epoxy and sanding.
Markey Mark (BD)
22-04-2012, 21:23
thats some cracking work, very impressed with all the parts so far, are you going to be looking to sell parts once you have all the molds done, may well be interested in some parts for mine :agree:
Same here, if you ever do want to sell some panels i would be very interested in a few various panels
Do look very good mate, great work there :agree:
Tony Walker
22-04-2012, 22:14
Amazing work, finish wouldnt be an issue imo.
Thanks guys. There's more to come but it's still curing.
As promised, here is the next mould for LH CF door outer skin. It was done differently than the others before mainly because Renault uses uber-thin sheetmetal in the doors and I can't use vacuum pressures to help here. Result is quite spotless luckily. I could make part straight away from this, but I'll propably make extensions to outer edges first. It makes laminating and vacuum bagging more easy.
On the inner skin I will use vacuum but I had to fill the door with PU foam to support the pressure. I will try to make this mould next before hidden rust under the filler starts come visible. :)
As promised, here is the next mould for LH CF door outer skin. It was done differently than the others before mainly because Renault uses uber-thin sheetmetal in the doors and I can't use vacuum pressures to help here. Result is quite spotless luckily. I could make part straight away from this, but I'll propably make extensions to outer edges first. It makes laminating and vacuum bagging more easy.
On the inner skin I will use vacuum but I had to fill the door with PU foam to support the pressure. I will try to make this mould next before hidden rust under the filler starts come visible. :)
really great work mr Harri ,
jesus in the seat of a 5
25-04-2012, 15:03
thats some cracking work, very impressed with all the parts so far, are you going to be looking to sell parts once you have all the molds done, may well be interested in some parts for mine :agree:
me too harri , seriously!!!!!, really impressed with what youve acheived buddy...:agree:
Phoenix Autosport
25-04-2012, 22:04
epic work !! surface finish wouldnt be an issue for me as i would paint for that OE look just fancy shedding a few pounds and have fewer parts that can rust :laugh:
keep up the good work cant wait to see the car done, power to weight ratio is going to be incredible
Yes, rust was one of the reasons why I started doing this. At least here in Finland it's quite impossible to find any R5 or Clio mk1 doors which don't have any rust between outer and inner door skins at the bottom inside. One company imports parts from France and it's almost as worse. The design against rust is quite poor in these doors. Renault propably meant that the cars should be recycled after 10 years of age before having these kind of issues.
Matt Cole
26-04-2012, 07:52
Harri, truly great work. Wings would be great if you ever get round to doing a few sets:agree:
People like you will keep the car alive!:agree:
Harri, truly great work. Wings would be great if you ever get round to doing a few sets:agree:
People like you will keep the car alive!:agree:
Thanks, are you looking for painted or CF finish?
Awesome work here! You really should look into making a batch :D
Lots off people would be interested i think.
Matt Cole
26-04-2012, 13:00
Thanks, are you looking for painted or CF finish?
Would have them painted to match the car i guess.
I could make a front wing set which has white, sandable gelcoat surface (for easy painting) and 4layers of 300g/m2 glass fiber with epoxy resin underneath. It will be light and strong while maintaining decent costs. Also you won't have any galvanic corrosion issues which CF can cause. I can use 200g/m2 Carbon as well but it will increase material costs by roughly 60€/wing. The wings will have the OE sheetmetal wing and GTT arch extensions combined, check my CF wing in previous pictures. If you're still interested I can calculate the cost and quote courier price for delivery.
Big Steve - Raider
26-04-2012, 13:27
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/eek2.gif (javascript:emoticon(':eeek:'))
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif (javascript:emoticon('=D>'))
for panels which will be painted that would be a far better solution imo:agree:
I could make a front wing set which has white, sandable gelcoat surface (for easy painting) and 4layers of 300g/m2 glass fiber with epoxy resin underneath. It will be light and strong while maintaining decent costs. Also you won't have any galvanic corrosion issues which CF can cause. I can use 200g/m2 Carbon as well but it will increase material costs by roughly 60€/wing. The wings will have the OE sheetmetal wing and GTT arch extensions combined, check my CF wing in previous pictures. If you're still interested I can calculate the cost and quote courier price for delivery.
I could do a set for £450 +postage. It includes both front wings with above spec and aluminum U-profile for the upper mountings (see my fitting pictures earlier in this thread).
I just saw pictures of James5 CF vinyl wrap roof and realised that I need to do the same, just without vinyl. Luckily my mother in law is giving me gtx r5 for spares which I will use as roof donator. The car will never get finished.
Markey Mark (BD)
01-05-2012, 15:47
I could do a set for £450 +postage. It includes both front wings with above spec and aluminum U-profile for the upper mountings (see my fitting pictures earlier in this thread).
For a set of carbon fibre wings which bolt straight on with archs thats great price :agree:
For me i would be interested in rear bumper,lower light trims, upper light trims, rear archs and boot trim if you ever decied to replicate them again.
I think i would want sections of carbon showing so wouldn't want a white gel coat on them
Ah sorry, £450 was for the glass fiber ones. Carbon front wings would be £120 more for a set. I can calculate pricing for the parts you mentioned. Did you want Carbon or painted finish?
Markey Mark (BD)
01-05-2012, 17:54
Ah sorry, £450 was for the glass fiber ones. Carbon front wings would be £120 more for a set. I can calculate pricing for the parts you mentioned. Did you want Carbon or painted finish?
What i wanted to do with them was paint sections of them and then have carbon areas on show so not sure whats best way to do it? Back bumper would be all carbon on show so no paint
I'm in no rush for stuff as still got to finish last few bits on the car but least can gauge how much i'll need when come to wanting them
Ok, then they should be without gelcoat definetly. The parts will be supplied without clear coating which you should paint for long term protection against UV radiation. You can use standard PU-based 2K clear coat. You can also paint the parts partly before clear coating and you should get decired finish. For these parts you will need to make fixings and trim off 2 - 4mm of extra material I'll leave on the outer edges. If there are any dry spots, I will fill them with same epoxy and sand down the spot. After clear coat you can't see them anymore. There might be pinholes in the parts however which can be filled with proper clear coat. The picture I attached shows typical pinholes, they aren't that large and are process related. Also aligment of fiber woven pattern is difficult which is why you can't expect the fiber aligment to be 100% similar on LH and RH parts.
Prices without postage:
-Rear bumper, 4 layers of carbon ~1mm thick, £620
-Boot trim (not the boot!), 4 layers of carbon (5 in the area where the handle is for extra stiffness), 1/1,25mm thick, £165
-Rear arches (both), 4 layers of carbon ~1mm thick, £380
-Upper&lower light trims (four parts), 3 layers of carbon ~0,75mm thick, £250
I will require 10% downpayment (paypal) when you decide to make order and we have agreed on delivery costs and time.
Markey Mark (BD)
01-05-2012, 18:37
Ok, then they should be without gelcoat definetly. The parts will be supplied without clear coating which you should paint for long term protection against UV radiation. You can use standard PU-based 2K clear coat. You can also paint the parts partly before clear coating and you should get decired finish. For these parts you will need to make fixings and trim off 2 - 4mm of extra material I'll leave on the outer edges. If there are any dry spots, I will fill them with same epoxy and sand down the spot. After clear coat you can't see them anymore. There might be pinholes in the parts however which can be filled with proper clear coat. The picture I attached shows typical pinholes, they aren't that large and are process related. Also aligment of fiber woven pattern is difficult which is why you can't expect the fiber aligment to be 100% similar on LH and RH parts.
Prices without postage:
-Rear bumper, 4 layers of carbon ~1mm thick, £620
-Boot trim (not the boot!), 4 layers of carbon (5 in the area where the handle is for extra stiffness), 1/1,25mm thick, £165
-Rear arches (both), 4 layers of carbon ~1mm thick, £380
-Upper&lower light trims (four parts), 3 layers of carbon ~0,75mm thick, £250
I will require 10% downpayment (paypal) when you decide to make order and we have agreed on delivery costs and time.
Thats cool mate, those pin holes don't look bad at all and as you say once its clear coated they will be sealed up anyway
Totally understand about matching woven pattern, know its impossible to do so its cool ;) Its only for my drag car so not too worried
Once i'm ready i will let you know mate and send 10% deposit over to you, we'll arrange postage too. Thanks very much for sorting prices :agree:
No problem. Since it's drag car I understand why you asked just the rear parts. People don't see anything more than that when you're accelerating like these rockets do:cool:
TNT ANDY
01-05-2012, 20:12
I wonder should anybody be trying to get into the 10's with a C1J, other than making say 400+ BHP how else could they get over the line quicker;)
LH Door inner mould done. It really paid off to fill and smooth all those holes and some unnecessary surfaces. It has two dry spots which can be fixed easily with some gel, sanding and polishing. Im starting to think that the carbon doors will look so good when finished that I won't install my carbon door cards to hide all that epoxy-cf-porn inside :D
andybond
02-05-2012, 20:43
:agree::eek::D:goodJob:
There are some seriously talented people on RTOC
Tony Walker
02-05-2012, 21:25
I'd definetly be leaving the carbon on show.
http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6203.gif (http://www.desismileys.com/)
TrixNFlix
03-05-2012, 20:01
You seem to be getting better and better Harri.Great work. Just need to find £2000 from somewhere to get me some goodies. :D
Yes, they have gotten better. Mostly after starting to use that blue gelcoat somewhere around page 2. With the doors I'll try to improve moulds even more by doing extensions all over outer edges. It should make actual part making a lot easier. Downside is increased costs and labour for the mould.
Same funding problem here, making these has been eating far more funds than originally planned. Im running out of everything currently so I might just have time to actually fit recent parts soon. Maybe even drive the car during summer?
TrixNFlix
03-05-2012, 20:20
Im running out of everything currently so I might just have time to actually fit recent parts soon. Maybe even drive the car during summer?
No chance!!!! :D:cooter:
Today between applying release agent coats (this means that part list should be soon updated) I found myself not having anything else to do than actually trial fit parts I've made. Bumper is still not 100% in right place but fitment seems to be as good as OE. I just need to do mountings for bumper and rear arches now. Poor pictures, but I'm really starting to like what I see.
btw, I really like my 15 inch momo rims but I perhaps need to start looking for lighter ones. Any 14 inch suggestions? Are 15 inch Ronal Turbos light?
Tony Walker
10-05-2012, 20:51
ooooooooooooooooooooooo :eek: really cant wait for this to be finished :agree:
TrixNFlix
10-05-2012, 22:01
Wow oh wow, oh wow!!!! Breathtaking work harri!!:):agree:
Thanks, I can't wait for the next part and fitting it. Front of the car will finally be whole again.
Woznaldo
11-05-2012, 11:13
Awesome as always Harri. It would be nice to see the car looking this good and dipping below the 700kg mark.
Drop some weight and improve stop and go performance! :devil:
Yes, getting the car under 700kg with full tank is sort of the goal here. If I achieve that too easily I'll just add even tighter goal like 650kg :dearme: But then I definetly need lighter rims and CF seats.
I'll also go back to dyno someday after getting doors back again to increase the boost back to 1.3-1.4 bars which was the pressure I used prior blowing my T25.
I have excel sheet which calculates power/weight ratio constantly. It also has a row for €/kg and I can tell you that it would much cheaper to just concentrate on power increase. Powerweight ratio is now 177bhp/tonne. I hope to get 220bhp with my setup and current weight goal after all the mods is 703kg, that equals to 312bhp/tonne. Weight saving means less consumption so maybe ROI is just 100 years :)
It would help alot if someone could give me actual weights of OEM condition parts such as bumpers, skirts, arches, doors etc. Mine have so much filler+foam etc. that I can't use them for scaling anymore.
REBEL GT TURBO
12-05-2012, 00:26
Hei harri where abouts in Finland are you from? I lived there for a while! I was up north, Levi ski resort also lived in Roveniemi, loved my time there, met some really good friends!
Also love the carbon work!
I live in Helsinki area so haven't propably met your friends ;)
Northern Finland is nice thought.
Even if it turns out that the eventual power to weight could have be achieved more cost effectively by concentrating on increasing power, you might find that the weight savings bring other, less directly comparable benefits, like driveability. What £-value might your attach to that in the spreadsheet? :)
Yes, you're absolutely right. I remember how my clio16v felt when I once had five adult inside. Performance wise it felt like a twingo
I'm looking into cheap ways of removing weight now, I currently have steel side mounts in drivers seat. They are modified to fit clio rails that fit my gtt. A mess really which weights roughly 8kg.
Are these any good:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230720385598?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Weight saving with these alloy mount would cost only 10€/kg which is nothing compared to most of my CF parts.
However I'm bit worried that they are made from low grade aluminum which doesn't hold as well as 6082T6 or 7xxx series. Does anyone have experience on these budget alloy side mounts? Should I get proper sparco or omp ones?
Looks like progress, I made this mould just about 1 year ago in page 2 of this thread.
Front bumper in carbon fiber done. Came out ok considering its biggest and most complex of the parts I've made. It also had the worst mould (and the last one with the gray gelcoat which caused so many issues)
It has few air bubbles visible which I will fill with epoxy, sand and polish down. Weight 2273g untrimmed, should be roughly 2000g when done since the air intake section has same amount of layers as the actual part and will be cut off.
Making the first layer using 2150mm*650mm piece of carbon fiber was tricky. All the layers (4) under the first are made out of 3 pieces each.
After this Im really glad that I can make easy parts again (door outer skin next)
time for small update; I decided to do sort of inner skin for my hood to improve fitting by making the structure more rigid with as low extra weight as possible. First the old mould needed some cleaning. I taped it to hood to make sure that the hood is not anyway deformed when doing inner structure. Next I bonded 10mm thick 40kg/m3 PU foam following roughly the shape of the original inner structure. I trial fitted the hood and it will propably fit in original position. Next I'll add 0.5mm thick CF laminate to improve the rigidity of the hood.
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