First post!
Hello
New member here this is my black phase 2 5 GT Turbo.
First post!
Hello
New member here this is my black phase 2 5 GT Turbo.
Welcome, car looks nice and clean.
Got much plans for the car?
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Thanks for the welcome
The bodywork is all good there is no rot anywhere, the arches and sills are all perfect and mechanically its just as good, start's first time every time, gear box is perfect, No knocks or bangs it drives like new.
The engine is mostly standard with just an uprated alloy intercooler, Air filter and alloy radiator, The clutch feels like it may be uprated also although i am not 100% sure.
Its currently set up to run 14psi, Boost gauge and Air fuel ratio gauge's are installed and my next plan is to fit a bigger turbo which i am hoping you guy's can advise me on.
That's sounds like a lovely car to start off with. Do you know what turbo is in there already?
Choosing a turbo is depending on your style of driving. I prefer a T2/T25 as like lively country lane driving. Was running at 18psi with similar setup to you if the intercooler is just a replacement OE style alloy one. T25 is a nice in between style for power and driveability or can go T28 but you will start looking at quite a bit more lag and having to change more of the engine components to counter this out. There are quite a few companies (think on Facebook person called Turbo Bernies Blowers who are really good, or even rebuilding your original one and changing the spec of it if its possible.
Welcome to the club. Lovely looking car you got.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
As far as I'm aware the turbo is the standard T2, It looks pretty small so i'm guessing that's the case, I will upload a photo in case you can tell.
My intercooler is indeed one of the alloy OE style replacement one's. From the little bit of research i have done i think my choice of turbo will be between the first two that you have mentioned the T2/T25 hybrid or a full T25.
How would you compare the two in the real world? like your self i am also a big fan of country lane driving and i also like the novelty aspect of being pushed back in your seat.
I am not a number chaser or a drag racer, I'm after a fast road car and maybe some track use so i'm really torn between those two turbo's and having not experienced them my self i'm a little unsure what decision to make so it would be great to hear some opinions from people who have experience with both turbo's.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Thank youOriginally Posted by B18ftMOJO5
Welcome to the club. Lovely looking car you got.
You cant tell from that picture, normally they will have figures written in the cast to give you an idea on it. But from the state of that I would be guessing its still the original turbo on there. As that's not come off for a long time. Good luck with those nuts.
The T2/T25 is never going to pin you back, don't get me wrong this will still push up you up the revs but running more than 18/19psi you will be producing too much heat and wont be efficient enough. With the setup you will have will give you about 170-180bhp. The T25 will be more efficient, will give a nice kick back in the seat and get you going up to 7k revs. But for a country lane drive you will find you will need to keep changing the gears down to keep the revs high enough.
Has the car had a service lately, and from pictures the hoses look like they have been replaced so should be good for no leaks plus the cup mod has been done to the actuator. You got a full picture of the engine bay?
Any changes of turbo / boost you will need to sort the carb out, maybe worth rebuilding it fully with the changes being made.
Welcome
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Based on that i think i may go for the T25, Will the T25 still perform well with the standard cam? And what is the safe rev limit for these engines with the standard cam in place?
The car has been recently serviced (less than 100 miles ago) using total quartz 10w50 and NGK B8EG plug's, new filter, sump plug, dizzy cap & rotor arm and new gear box oil also.
I also have a spare carb i plan on buying a rebuild kit for and re jetting when i acquire the new turbo. I have a rough idea of what jet's need changing but again i would appreciate some guidance when the time comes to actually setting this up.
Here is a picture of the engine bay.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Fancy seeing you over here, Thank's again for the spare carb topWelcome
Dare I ask what that wire is running along drivers wing?
When you sort out the turbo remove the bleed valve and control through the actuator.
The turbo will still be ok, dependant on back housing you can get. Think it's .47 is preferable with T25 turbos. Standard cam is OK for it but with a 285 can it's quite surprising the difference it can make but it's something which you can look at later on.
Would advise sorting out just above the turbo with wiring and pipe work
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
At some point in time somebody has wired the fan onto a switch which is what i believe that wire running along the wing is for and looking at the picture now i can see the need to tidy up that wiring above the turbo.
There is a T25 currently on ebay ( from a GTT race car i believe ) with a .49 rear it also states the internals have been upgraded to a T25/28 with a high flow billet wheel.
Would this be a good turbo for fast road use without too much lag?
Got a link to it? Yeah would remove the wiring for fan and get the original back up and working its its not already.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Wasn't sure if i was allowed to post links.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014715647...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Welcome. Lovely looking car. I would keep it as original as possible with a few minor tweaks and enjoy!
That turbo has not got billet compressor wheel but it does have a slightly bigger compressor wheel the rest is standard
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
That's the plan, Cosmetically i will keep it as original as possible, The only upgrades i have planned are performance based really.Welcome. Lovely looking car. I would keep it as original as possible with a few minor tweaks and enjoy!
So technically this would be more laggy than a standard T25? How do you think this turbo would perform on a GTT? i don't want anything that is extremely laggy but i am happy to compromise somewhat for more punch over a T2/T25.That turbo has not got billet compressor wheel but it does have a slightly bigger compressor wheel the rest is standard
It all depends on the engine tune has it got standard cam or high lift if its still standard cam I go for a t2/25 other wise it wont get going until 3500rpm but if want t25 you will need a piper 285 cam or something to the same spec which will help spool the turbo.
Nice looking car Flarty
Welcome to RTOC
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
My cam is standard and with it being an engine out job to change it i would prefer to keep it for now so this is where im a little uncertain of which route to take.
Has anybody actually ran a T25 with standard cam? if so how do you find it?
As previously said the T25 will take a little bit longer to spool up but wont ruin the don't feel of the drive. Have driven with 285 cam with a T25 and one without. I would definitely prefer it with as does put back the feel of a T2 turbo drive back into the car but with a lot more power and high end power.
Nice car, welcome along
From the engine bay pics it appears the car has been played about with quite a lot, so I would confirm what turbo is on there at the moment before doing anything else (though Bigfoot's note about it being OE as it's been on for ages is very likely to be spot on). If the turbo is indeed uprated in one way or another and is running ok, it might not need changing out, you might only need to (re)tune the fuel/carb set-up.
Edit - My preference with the OE cam would be a T2/T25 hybrid set-up to 18-20psi, revving to 6500rpm. Great fun without stressing everything too much, or costing a lot to achieve, or taking too long to realise.
Right ok, Im going to take a good look at the turbo later and see if i can see any markings indicating what it actually is.
The engine spec has always a bit of a mystery, The previous owner didn't know much about the spec and when i purchased the car as far as he was aware it was relatively standard there was no boost gauge fitted so i fitted my own boost gauge and the car was boosting at 10psi at the vacuum line going to the AEI unit.The under bonnet bleed valve was already present and the down pipe already had a boss welded in it for a wide band sensor which i thought was strange for a car only running 10 psi.
I purchased the AEM wide band and promptly fitted it. At 10 psi the afr's were mid 11's at 5k + Rpm , I assumed the carb had not been played with at this point so i did not at that time increase the boost any further, I purchased a second carb to play with my self before increasing the boost further and or upgrading the turbo, However for experimentation i decided to try it at 14psi to see what my AFR's would be and to my surprise they were high 11's at 5k+ rpm at W0T.
This leaves me a a little unsure of what has actually been done to engine. The afr's lead me to believe the carb may already have been played with, The clutch feels like it may be uprated as its very much like an on off button. I will take a good look at the turbo today and see if i can work out what it actually is, as mentioned it looks like its not been off in a long time, that said the car has zero smoke, at idle or under boost and doesn't appear to use any oil or water it runs spot on.
Last edited by Flarty; 25-11-2015 at 16:57.
Good info and good plan, keep us updated
Having a AFR gauge is always a great asset
Maybe it's normal that the AFRs are slightly different but 'good enough' at both 10psi and 14psi, even if everything on the car is standard. This would tally with experience, as years ago folk were flying blind by just upping the boost on a standard set-up from 7psi to about 15psi (base of carb), with no carb adjustment at all. It appeared people ran like this for years without issue, me included, yet everyone knew not to push it beyond that level (for various reasons, including the T2 starting to go off-map).
Perhaps a rough and unspoken rule of thumb is that if you up the boost without an AFR gauge, don't go beyond 15psi on any turbo. Any more than that and suddenly attention to carb tuning is absolutely essential, which obviously requires AFRs.
Looks like your fuel pressure reg has been moved also.
Very nice car.....Welcome to RTOC chap
This is more new news to me. This is my first five so i am not familiar where everything should be as standard, Is this a common thing to relocate? Where would it have been originally?
Thank you.
Right i have had a good luck at this turbo, and tbh it's very hard to see any marking's, I can't see any on the exhaust side, and could just about see this on the compressor side.
I think there may be some other markings on the compressor side but with all the pipe work and dirt i could not make anything out, I will however take another look and try and clean some of the grime around that area later on.
I took a blind photo of the underside of the turbo in case there were marking i could not see from above and now viewing the photo it appears there is bolt hole unused on the turbo that dose not match the bolt pattern on the elbow.
That's a Garret T2 turbo
Thank's, I just had another look at it has A/R 51 stamped on it also.
According to Scoff: The standard turbo has a 50 trim compressor in a 0.48ar cover and a 58 trim turbine in 0.35ar housing.
Dale, I'm no authority on this so what would that indicate in reference to Flarty's turbo? Assuming the 51a/r is on the compressor cover, then it sounds like it might be bigger? Is this turbo a hybrid? T25 front, T2 rear?
For confirmation sake i just snapped this.
Been a while since I have seen a std T2 but the M27 and A/r 51 don't look like Std R5 GTT T2 sizes, also the bolt pattern on the rear housing if std all holes would align up.
You really need to take the turbo off and look inside the flange that meets the exhaust manifold they tend to be stamped inside as to the rear housing size. I admit it still looks small but the fact it's not aligned correct does make me think it's not std. For some reason I am thinking Maybe the slightly bigger T2 of a Volvo 1.7 lump?? I still wouldn't want to run more than 1bar through it.
This is the only other marking i can see anywhere on the exhaust side its on the turbo to manifold joint i still can't make out what it say's, i wiped some water over the lettering to try and make it a bit my clear.
The bolts on the manifold joint also appear much newer.
Last edited by Flarty; 25-11-2015 at 17:53.
It seems my current turbo is also a bit of a mystery
I have found another turbo on ebay
A recon Garrett T2/T25 hybrid, I've messaged the seller who has informed me it has a .35 exhaust housing.
He's told me its plug and play except it will need an oil adapter but hes unsure of which adapter i will need. How do i work out which oil adapter i will need?
Here's a link to the turbo.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrett-T2...UAAOSw5ZBWH7Yd
Your local Pirtek can usually help with oil fixing & thread style.
The fuel pressure reg is usually much lower than yours. People with higher boosted cars run an uprated adjustable fuel pressure reg and put it where yours is for easy access. Yours does look standard though.
When I bought my turbo, I took the turbo and oil feed to my local Pirtek and although they didn't have the oil adaptor I needed they did confirm the threads. I then sourced the adaptor from Merlin Motorsport.
Thanks that seems straight forward enough, Time to make the seller an offer.
It seems my current turbo is also a bit of a mystery
I have found another turbo on ebay
A recon Garrett T2/T25 hybrid, I've messaged the seller who has informed me it has a .35 exhaust housing.
He's told me its plug and play except it will need an oil adapter but hes unsure of which adapter i will need. How do i work out which oil adapter i will need?
Here's a link to the turbo.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrett-T2...UAAOSw5ZBWH7Yd
Dude I wouldn't even bother with that turbo it has a std T2 compressor housing and Std T2 rear housing the core looks different.
For real? so its not a real T2/T25?
Welcome along fella, sweet 5!
The core maybe T25 but the housing are std size on that ebay turbo.
You on facebook, be worth contacting bernie wilky and seeing if he will make you a custom turbo to your spec for a good price.
They're not. They are the original stainless nuts with stainless wire for a thread. There were maybe £10 each.
They undo when you want them to. Which can't be said for all other nuts.
They seem to be locking nuts too as they are can be bit resistant to turn even though they're clean and new looking.
The engine has also suffered some alterations to the crank breather. The swirl pot looks to have been deleted and the pipes changed. It may smoke without that.
Also the anti-percolation cooling for the carb has been deleted. Some people who live in cities find the car better with that cooling.
Those boost hoses look ready to split.
Maybe it did have an after market fuel pressure reg. at some point which was taken off and the OE refitted before the car was sold.
There's some bodgery gone on under that bonnet.
My understanding was that the Anti perc fan is usually moved due to it potentially being a fire hazard?, Iv'e never had a problem with hot start's , Do you recommend re fitting the anti perc fan?
How do i rectify the changes to the breather system?
It would be much appreciated if you could elaborate on how to rectify anything that has been bodged, like i say this is my first five and i am not as familiar with them as you guy's and i am learning as i go. Anything that has been bodged i would like to know about so i can sort it out right away.
Here is a diagram of the OE breather system.
[IMG][/IMG]
I wouldn't worry too much about the perc fan, many people do not run them including myself with no issues. I maybe have to crank the car slightly longer on a particularly warm day, 9/10 times it starts on the button.
Also there is no real advantage to move the OE FPR back to it's original position unless you are going for the complete OE engine bay look.
[IMG][/IMG]
Here is my engine bay with a few changes. I have simplified my breather system somewhat by blocking off the pipe that comes out of the inlet, I then run breather hose from rocker cover to swirl pot as usual but adding a filter. Some people run to a catch tank too which I have fitted but not yet piped up.
You can also see adjustable FPR near right strut.
Thanks ill take the breather diagram out with me and see whats missing etc.
At which point do people start upgrading the FPR?
I am not necessarily going to the OE engine bay look, just clean tidy and functional and certainly no bodge job's.
I'm not sure what the turning point is but in my situation as soon as I started running 20psi + i needed to keep the carb bowl full at high boost/RPM so needed increased fuel pressure. The malpassi FPR allows you to do that, mine is currently set to 5.5psi at idle. I think the standard FPR runs about 3/4psi.
One of the many reasons why I suggested a T2/T25 hybrid set-up to 18-20psi, revving to 6500rpm. FPR's aren't prohibitive on their own but it's simply less hassle and cost.
At 25PSI my car never had a problem running out of float chamber fuel. But it did have the earlier fuel pump which was said to do something or other better than the later one. So I had the original fuel pressure regulator.
At over 18psi, mine did blow oil, there was some combustion blowing past the rings I presume and pressuring the crankcase. I fitted a home made catch tank to the end of the breather pipe that previously went into the 'telephone' hose (the big U shape one from the air filter to the compressor). That stopped it collecting in the inter cooler and from misting out of the dump valve all over the engine bay. Actually there was only a few desert spoons full in there after months of use, but it went a long way otherwise, especially as the engine was mostly either painted white or polished / chromed.
It's not just about hot starting. People who lived in North London would tell me that after they took the fan off, as soon as they came out of the countryside back into the (miles of) slow traffic their car's ran poorly but were fine again once the fan was refitted. I found this occasional myself. If you're able to get by without it then that's clutter removed
I'm a little surprised those prongs at the front, poking through the bonnet to hold it down, pass the MOT. I was under the impression that sharp sticking out parts that can hurt pedestrians are not, errm, permissible.
How close are those wires to the turbo / exhaust? It can get very hot there and in time they might take a turn for the worse.
Without the plastic cover over the fan into the passenger, you may have water going in there at times. The get very dirty so there must be something landing on them.
It that yellow tube over at the drivers side of the engine bay a manual fan switch wire?
My first turbo change was to keep it all the same T2 but swap the compressor wheel for a bigger one, maybe the Nissan Silvia, and have the housing bored out to match it. That was a small but good improvement at higher boost, at that time 15PSI at the inlet manifold. It felt about the same a low boost. No extra lag.
One of the best things I did to give the car much better 'get up and go' was to change the exhaust to the 2 1/4 inch Blue Flame Mongoose. The front turbo pipe on it's own made good improvement as I fitted that just after the rest of the system.
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