Does anyone here have water injection? Is it worth the money? Advantages? Disadvantages? Does it enable higher boost levels without risking your engine?
Does anyone here have water injection? Is it worth the money? Advantages? Disadvantages? Does it enable higher boost levels without risking your engine?
Ive always though the idea of water injection was to first keep charge temps down and second to keep det at bay, I may be wrong though.
think ya right,Originally Posted by rs250nut
Ive always though the idea of water injection was to first keep charge temps down and second to keep det at bay, I may be wrong though.
could always replace water for pure alcohol boooooooooooooost
BANG!!
Nobody here has water injection??
I know lots of peeps running WI who swear by it for preventing Det at high boost. Ford WRC and Saab use it as OE. Not seen amy before and after charge temp readings though.
I have water injection and use a 50/50 water/methanol mix.
Ive only just fitted some det cans to play with my nitrous setup so im planning on using them for setting up the water inj.
Ive been running it a few years but not seen any benefits as i havent really set it up.
but once the weather clears up and i get some new tyres fitted ill have a play with the ignition advance with the injection going.
Im running 20psi boost and my cars head has been skimmed a few times so i have to run the car retarded. So im hoping when i finally get roud to it, i might be able to run some advance! or Go boom! one of the two.
most people ive spoken to dont really bother with it or see the benefits.
i once tried it to reduce charge temps. i got a 1 C drop in temp.
so i fitted a front mount over a double cap intercooler and got a 20 C temp drop.
so its not really much cop for reducing charge temp.
I had water injection and it made me slower by wetting my spark to much and I was using the smallest jet erl sold, personally the best thing I did was to dump the water injection
didnt you have the DD3 setup? i htink it wa called dd3
i was on the understanding it wasnt much use below 18-20psi but alot of it is in the setup
Thing is the gains are minimal unless you are really pushing the engine & even then if you set the car up with water & it runs out on a run it =
I personally wouldn't bother with it.
i think kebabman used to run 18psi (t25 turbo) with water injection and lots of advance, and a 130mm main jet and i think a 1.2mm secondary in the carb.
the car set up might of run rich but hell it was a mean machine.
i guess its all about the advance
if you put the water container in the car or fit it with a level sensor (£2 off ebay) you wont run out of water. plus water is free!!!
i do think though that its not really much benefit under 20psi, but i want to try running my car with advance ign timing. as i have to run it retarded due to 20psi of boost and a shaven to hell Head.
Yeah i had the DDS3 with i think the 1s system or what ever it was so it had all the cut outs to stop the car blowing up if I ran out of water / mix. Nice gauge though showed the flow of water being used and if it was safety cutting out aswell.
ah i remember
i have the 1s system as well but not the DDS3 gauge and saftey systems. just a few leds here and there in case hehe.
but i run it on a switch so i dont use it all the time, only when i want to play with the ignition timing.
just a toy at the end of the day really.
i think if your looking to just have a play about, then you can pick up very cheap systems on american ebay.
but the gains you will get on a renault 5 are minimal compared to what some people on this forum have achieved with just good fueling and setups without the need for wi.
Would you get more gain from intercooler water spray system?
Think of water injection as a cover up for poor intercooling. in my opinion you wouldn't ever want to inject water under any other circumstance.
or you could use this,
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...code=DEI080131
my cousin had one on his rx7 twin turbo and he said he could run 7 more psi (sprint)
with this system, but i belive he had some kind of air temp sender and a relay which sprayed the cooler (once active via a switch) and thus controled charge temps, -30*c iirc
tho this was a few years back and wasnt intrested in turbo, which is why i sound so vauge, but i know they work
tho i could be wrong on temps and psi as i only just rember him having it
or if ya skint
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpU6R...ture=quicklist
But again, a cover up for poor intercooling. -30°c charge temps ? I think you misheard that bit, the car would not run. Maybe it sprayed at -30°c.
could well off, and sopunds a bit more likly as i say it was ages ago,
btw got some wiki info
Water Injection
Main article: Water injection (engines)
Water injection is another effective means of cooling the charge air to prevent detonation. Methanol is mixed with the water to prevent freezing and to act as a slower-burning fuel. Water injection, unlike nitrous oxide or forced induction itself, doesn't add more oxygen to the charge, but absorbs heat as it evaporates to cool the charge and lower combustion temperatures. The alcohol is also a fuel in the charge which burns slower and cooler than gasoline. Due to the lower intake temperatures and denser air charge more power is exerted from the engine. Water injection is typically used in conjunction with low-octane fuel in order to run higher than normal manifold pressures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)
Good wiki, now look up "intercooler" and tell me which you think is the better one to have
I thought the effect of water injection was to slow down combustion and pull energy out of the chamber to reduce detonation. That's why most people just see a power decrease. To see a useful drop in charge temps surely you'd have to inject a lot of water and inject it as far away from the cylinder as possible, ie the turbo outlet?
I think scoff is right and it's really just a bodge to let you get away with low octane fuel.
i have a aquamist water injection set up on my 5, though ive never used it havnt had the car long and been having other problems look at my profile pic u can see how its set up, as u can see it squirts right in behind my dump valve,
i havnt really looked into it not even sure it works.
was just on the car when i bought it, i have a recipt for £580 for it so im sure its all there. ill try it once my new turbos running next week and let u know
it says in my previous post
it absorbs heat as it evaporates thus less heat in the combustion chamber equling no det as the temp would have dropped just enoth to stop, as all det is, is were the fuel ignites before it should, and sounds like marbles beeing dropped on a metal floor basicly
which is why i put up the intercooler sprayer
tho i have got a better idea and made by cr02 still
The Cry02 air intake consists of an aerodynamically designed bulb with a cryogenic
chamber which is mounted in a 4" segment of air tube.
As the air passes over the bulb, heat is removed from the air charge resulting in a colder, denser, more powerful charge.
Dyno testing showed a reduction in intake air temperature of more than 35%. The Cry02 air intake can be used on turbocharged, supercharged or naturally aspirated applications.
Multiple units can be used for colder results. Installs in minutes and comes with silicone connection sleeve, hose clamps and connection/vent hose.
The CryO2 is a revolutionary award winning product designed to reduce the temperature of the air/fuel intake charge thus creating power.
Through the science of aerodynamics and cryogenics, Design Engineering has developed a system to harness the cryogenic properties of liquid Carbon Dioxide to lower the air/fuel intake charge by up to 60%.
The system is modular and can be easily expanded. The CryO2 system provides two methods of cooling the air charge and one method of cooling the fuel charge all utilising the same burst of liquid CO2.
CO2 is normally available at any welding supply shop or where paintball guns are charged. Please ensure you are able to obtain the CO2 locally before purchasing. Available with either a 3" OD intake or a 2.5" OD intake.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...code=DEI080110
it says in my previous post
it absorbs heat as it evaporates thus less heat in the combustion chamber equling no det as the temp would have dropped just enoth to stop, as all det is, is were the fuel ignites before it should, and sounds like marbles beeing dropped on a metal floor basicly
which is why i put up the intercooler sprayer
tho i have got a better idea and made by cr02 still
The Cry02 air intake consists of an aerodynamically designed bulb with a cryogenic
chamber which is mounted in a 4" segment of air tube.
As the air passes over the bulb, heat is removed from the air charge resulting in a colder, denser, more powerful charge.
Dyno testing showed a reduction in intake air temperature of more than 35%. The Cry02 air intake can be used on turbocharged, supercharged or naturally aspirated applications.
Multiple units can be used for colder results. Installs in minutes and comes with silicone connection sleeve, hose clamps and connection/vent hose.
The CryO2 is a revolutionary award winning product designed to reduce the temperature of the air/fuel intake charge thus creating power.
Through the science of aerodynamics and cryogenics, Design Engineering has developed a system to harness the cryogenic properties of liquid Carbon Dioxide to lower the air/fuel intake charge by up to 60%.
The system is modular and can be easily expanded. The CryO2 system provides two methods of cooling the air charge and one method of cooling the fuel charge all utilising the same burst of liquid CO2.
CO2 is normally available at any welding supply shop or where paintball guns are charged. Please ensure you are able to obtain the CO2 locally before purchasing. Available with either a 3" OD intake or a 2.5" OD intake.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produc...code=DEI080110
they do these on fuel rails as well dont they?
personally id feel youd have to set your engine up to fully rely on WI, CO2 or any other form of enhancement to get the true benefit of it, therefore making a car you might use for day to day tomfoolery redundant.
Car would only be good for its basic build eg: rally or drag etc.
reason i dont take the wi i have serious, its just a toy that one day ill get round to playing with to see if i can run my ign timing highly advanced with 20psi. if not ill sell it to someone with an escort rs turbo or a punto gt or something similar mwuahah
r5gtraider, I think you're confusing det with pre-ignition ?
anyway, yes your right on the whole, but the point is that it's a cover up for poor tuning in the first place.
for anyone considering water, Q) why would you want to cool the charge ? A) because the intercooler is not efficient enough. Q) why would I want a slower burn ? A) because my compression ratio is too high or I'm trying to run too much ignition or there isn't enough octane in the fuel to do the aforementioned as jim says.
Truth is that while people have had limited success with it I'm convinced (no, I know) that they could have gone just as quickly if not more so without it and with the engine tuned (for want of a better description!) properly!
consider also that anything non-combustable that you inject into the charge is taking up valuable space that could otherwise be inhabited by oxygen!
whenever in doubt if a product is really worth while, look to the proffessionals around you. in my case that's the more serious 1/4m guys. I don't know of a single one of them that is injecting water.
Allright... that's all the info I needIn other words: I'm not going to bother with w/i
Allright... that's all the info I need
as scoff says dont bother, proofs in the 1/4 mile table
im only going to play with it becuase i have a suspected high compression due to a shaven to fudge head!!!
that equates to a poor setup i guess. as it would be wise to buy a new head. If funds allowed of cause.
also if you monitor the afr when WI kicks in the afr readings look rich due to water taking up valuable oxygen space as scoff also comments above. (if that makes no sense i do apologise i have a habbit of talking in riddles)
oh have i scoff?
tho i thought det was were the heat and pressure causes the air/fuel to ignite in front of the flame front and cause a clashing shockwave and has these two flame/soundwaves hit each other it causes an incresed pressure due to the two clashing?
and prignition is were the air/fuel ignites at a hotspot before the spark has even ignited the compressed a/f
tho stand corrected if wrong but thats what i lernt when doing my mechanics corse
anyhow
just say that my car for example in this case,
my car runs fine no det no back fire etc,, now if i was to fit this
would i see bhp increse or would i do jack for that?
as i know the cooler the charge the higher the density = more oxygen blah blah,
now id use this setup for the occasinal blast or "boost" if thats if it does anything?
oh have i scoff?
tho i thought det was were the heat and pressure causes the air/fuel to ignite in front of the flame front and cause a clashing shockwave and has these two flame/soundwaves hit each other it causes an incresed pressure due to the two clashing?
and prignition is were the air/fuel ignites at a hotspot before the spark has even ignited the compressed a/f
tho stand corrected if wrong but thats what i lernt when doing my mechanics corse
anyhow
just say that my car for example in this case,
my car runs fine no det no back fire etc,, now if i was to fit this
would i see bhp increse or would i do jack for that?
as i know the cooler the charge the higher the density = more oxygen blah blah,
now id use this setup for the occasinal blast or "boost" if thats if it does anything?
maybe if you had a tadpole intercooler and no space for a big chuff off front mount...it would cool your charge temps for sure.
what that would mean i dont know
raider, you said "ignites before it should", that's pre ignition
you thought or you googled ?
yes, that's detonation
no i didnt google...
so would it make any bhp figure worth shouting about,
have nvq1 in mechanics, but that was when i was 17 and long since gone off mechanics so its a little rusty,tho always had a problem explaining in writing.
I'd put the money towards a better inter cooler setup .It would probably help my car on the dyno though
Fantastic car you have there Clee... r-e-s-t-e-c-p...
Didn't the Renault F1 cars from the eighties use WI?
I think so, and the R5 Maxi amongst others, probably because intercooling those sorts of boost pressures in those conditions required it (neither had space for much of an intercooler).
Don't forget the RAF Spitfires from the 30's/40's
and some light aircraft use it on take off becasue there full throttle and full turbo boost as such , the ones that use a turbo to make sea level pressure at manifold when 1000's of feets upDon't forget the RAF Spitfires from the 30's/40's
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