Speed season 2016

[RussellT]

This isn't going to be a long thread.
Over the winter I had upgraded her clutch to a competition one and fitted the Clio longer release arm (what a joy that is) then just before the first event Doris wouldn't idle all of a sudden on the short drive home from work. Carb in bits and cleaned out nothing found. I was looking for an air leak and put my finger over the mixture screw tube and she ran fine. Ah out came the sealant. Started her again and still won't idle, went back to look and the sealant had gone! No mixture screw! Luckily I had a spare.
First event at 3 Sisters a very competitive field with Harewood instructor James Kerr and Keith Minshull. I tried my best including rescuing a full sideways moment up the hill to the flying finish with a tank lapper across the line that took out the finish board leaving Doris with a sizeable wood splinter in her side skirt, but could only manage a 3rd on 53.10 Keith took the win 52.66 just ahead of James on 52.71.
For the next round at Aintree I had the rear dampers softened to the med setting. The engine had felt good at 3 Sisters so I was hopeful.
After practice (on practice boost) I was in the lead! The first time I had been ahead of James on a dry track in years. So I turned the boost up and went for it. Only Doris dint appreciate it and misfired all the way around. 2nd time run with boot lower she ran fine but lost power and set a slow time. On the slow down tthe oil smoke started to appear. It was coming from the breather hose and it looks like I've lost compression from one of the cylinders.
I managed to pootle home without bothering the AA for once. So it looks like game over for the year but an opportunity to come back with a better engine.

[Matt Cole]

Sounds like new engine time Russell. I guess the gruelling and punishing events eventually take toll on poor Doris!
What engine spec do you have in mind? Is efi now on the cards?

[Trevhib]

Hi Russell. I'll be gutted if this is the start and the end of your 2016 season!

Have a look-see, maybe it's not too bad?

[RussellT]

I tried a compression test on cylinder 1 & 2 and either my compression tester is broke or there is no compression. She will still run and she has oil and water.
This engine was built by Ian Nixon late 2007 I have had 2 dropped valves, so its done pretty well.
It was built with forged rods and pistons but the pistons I bought on advice had the wrong compression height and Ive suffered from too low a compression as a result.
So the plan will be rather dependent on diagnosis but could include a new set of pistons and a beefier turbo.
EFI maybe a step too far. Ian Butcher competed with it at Aintree and no one said anything against it.

[Alex]

How very disappointing. It'll be good to get to the bottom of the issue, you never know it might not need much work to fix it. I suppose having the same engine since 2007, competing in sprint events AND using it daily on the road isn't too bad.

[Ian S]

I tried a compression test on cylinder 1 & 2 and either my compression tester is broke or there is no compression. She will still run and she has oil and water.
This engine was built by Ian Nixon late 2007 I have had 2 dropped valves, so its done pretty well.

Trying the gauge on 3 & 4 might answer that? Or on a known working car.

If it had no compression on 1 & 2 it would run VERY rough.

Given that it takes between 1 to 2 hours to get the engine out or do a swap, why should this fault stop you from competing in the next race?

Could you not take the head off and have a look at that? A couple of hours spannering and you'll know. Or pop it into someone, Scoff maybe?

[Trevhib]

[RussellT]

No compression on 1 and 4 and down on the other 2 also the head is cracked.

[RussellT]

Just picked up the results and I came second. What a car running on 2 and a bit cylinders and I beat James to the split just lost out on the run around the last corner and down to the finish. Ian mega 5 was slightly faster, through the finish at 118 stopping the clock at 51.85!

[Matt Cole]

No compression on 1 and 4 and down on the other 2 also the head is cracked.

Oh.

Good excuse for some new parts!

[Alex]

To be honest the crack in between valves is very common and most of the time doesn't cause any issues. I guess you've fried the piston rings?

[Ian S]

As far as I can discern these days, that doesn't look too bad anywhere in those two photos. Fairly clean. White exhaust valve, some oil on one area of one piston.

Apart from that crack, as Alex says that may have little effect.

It might be some worn rings and glazed bores. Or the valves not sealing as well as new. Maybe leaking out of that / those cracks.

If the tappets are not correctly adjusted you'd get different compressions.

It does look a bit like the head gasket was nearing it's time, or the head bolts were not tight enough, as there appears to be discolouration spreading out towards the edges of that liner top. There tends to be a clean defined ring all the way around near the inner edge.

[RussellT]

The outer pistons are severely scored the inner ones are pristine.

[Alex]

I wonder why that happend? Could it be that the piston rings have worn and created piston slap on the outer 2 pots? Why would only those 2 have worn out though? Maybe an issue with the gudeon pins having play?

Either way it's new engine time Russell

[Trevhib]

Don't they say that the outer two pots don't get the same fuel mix as the inner two and run a bit hotter as a result?

[Ian S]

The water pump end also has the longest exhaust manifold pipe.

And we wondered if the water pump end doesn't cool as well because the water looks like it doesn't circulate so well around it.

Often it's just the water pump end piston that expands and scores. Sometimes after only one boost run.

[RussellT]

In my view my turbo could pressurise the air but wasn't big enough to move enough air at high revs and as Trev says the central inlet runners took the charge at the expense of the outer 2 leaving them hot. I am toying with the idea of blown bike ITB's . Anyone got any bright ideas?
Remember I want mid range torque rather than ultimate top end power.

[RussellT]

goodies on the way

[Matt Cole]

Project thread needed Russel!

[Trevhib]

Ooh! Yes, keep us informed

[RussellT]

New Wossners for Doris Cims6ntWgAEbyrs.jpg

[Fordy]

Original pistons died because of quite clear detonation, Always the outers that run leaner slightly, that sort of damage doesn't just happen that quickly thats prolonged light detonation which your ears probably wont of heard

Best way to keep for such light detonation is by reading the spark plugs in detail after a run out, Little black dots in the insulator is sure sign of the onset of detonation

Are you using forged rods as well or modifying stock rods to suit floating pins?

[RussellT]

forged rods by Saenz

[RussellT]

I have a replacement head from Prima Racing, "breathed on" by Tony Hart and a new turbo on its way from Scoff. Ive ordered a inlet manifold from Bob at CGB to "play" with.

Im considering bike throttle bodies, there is an issue with the spacing of the ports but I have a "cunning plan" I discussed it with a professional motor sports engineer and he said it was daft, so highly likely to be duff, but it would look pretty!

watch this space.

[Ian S]

C1J standard con rods are forged

In my R5, I could hear, or sense, even the mildest det'ing. Some of it was not mild, but after years of it, when I took the engine apart, no damage.

I never just sat there with the pedal down indefinitely while it did it.

I made an 'electronic stethoscope' det detector, it was very good, very revealing of all the little sounds going on in the engine and could reveal the slightest 'knock' before the louder metallic sound. But I was aware af that sound anyway. But some people who used it did hear a great deal more info than they were previously aware of and could tune their engine better so there was no knock.

[Alex]

Original pistons died because of quite clear detonation, Always the outers that run leaner slightly, that sort of damage doesn't just happen that quickly thats prolonged light detonation which your ears probably wont of heard

Best way to keep for such light detonation is by reading the spark plugs in detail after a run out, Little black dots in the insulator is sure sign of the onset of detonation

Are you using forged rods as well or modifying stock rods to suit floating pins?

The piston tops look o.k. to me - no real 'det marks that I can see? The outer 2 pistons have melted/failed ringlands, would this be from 'det? I would imagine the outer 2 have run leaner/hotter than the others and have melted the pistons. I guess this would have caused the detonation but I would have expected the tops of the pistons to look a mess, particularly with it being over a long period of time?

[Fordy]

Yes ring lands areas are detonation marked and worn away, this then caused the top rings to wear quickly probably dropping compression slowly noticing more and more crankcase pressure and then eventually with det and friction caused the ring land and ring to become one hence the skirt damage

it's quite a text box failure, detonation isn't always massive holes and half a piston left

[RussellT]

[Trevhib]

Looks well You'll need to do the same with the manifold gasket to get the proper effect.

[RussellT]

New pigs in blankets

[RussellT]

The new turbo

[Matt Cole]

Very nice Russel.

I guess your getting serious now!

[Alex]

You've got to love shiney new car parts! Whats been done to the head Russell? What spec is the turbo?

[Trevhib]

[RussellT]

A/R60 M24 its a bit bigger than what I had.
There is a picture of the new head on thread some serious port work and also work on the combustion chamber as well.
The latest plan is to put it all together with the carb get it run in then look at the throttle body option.
I was given a set of bike throttle bodies but they had dampers on them worked by manifold pressure so no good for a turbo engine.

[RussellT]

I have just found out that the Speed Committee of the MSA are looking to change the turbo equivalence factor from 1.4 to 1.7.

This would have the effect of putting me into the over 2L class with Subys and Mitsubishi Evos. Well I could play but wouldn't win.

[Matt Cole]

That's a bit rough Russel!

[Trevhib]

That's a big jump

[RussellT]

Here is a photo of the new turbo on the head with the old one next to it for comparison.

[Matt Cole]

That should see them 2.0l cars off!

[RussellT]

Just bought one of these for phase 2 of the rebuild.



CpgxUj6WYAARE_Y.jpg


Im up to 300 miles and Doris has a date with Scoff in 10 days.

[Fordy]

only 1 set
interested to see how this comes out and how it is mounted, feeding the cylinder with 1 injector for 2 cylinders would be interesting to see the results

[RussellT]

Because of the non cross flow head space is an issue I thought 1 TB feeding each pair of inlets was the way to go. I admit it's a pure guess but should help with air flow at low revs and at the moment 4 cylinders are fed one TB in the carb with a 32mm entrance to the inlet manifold. So she should breath easier.

[RussellT]

Doris survived the rollers power limited by how fast she was emptying the float chamber at 19.9 psi any guesses as to the final figures?

[Mad_Mat]

Nice work, great that people are still developing and trying new ideas for these little engines.

Does it have the mid range grunt you were looking to achieve ?

[RussellT]

She is still on the Solex the throttle body is phase 2.

[francob80]

What did it make on the rollers Russell?

[Trevhib]

At 20psi, I'll guess 192bhp and 215lbft.

[tubbyG]

With the headwork and massive blower I say....................

210bhp and 190lbft

[RussellT]

Any more guesses? One of the torque figures is close