Jesus`s EFI GT Turbo, at Scoffs 4/5/13

[Kris M]

Jesus has just left mine and asked me to put up a small thread about yesterdays antics First off a big thanks to Scoff for working his magic, its great to see someone passionate about what they do and getting great results on the dyno aswell

Right, started off in Swindon with mattys hillclimb car on the trailer at 05.30 on Sat. Drove up to Liverpool and got to scoffs around 9. Matty has just installed Dave Reeds old engine / setup into his hillclimb car and the aim was to map the car to three boost settings and get an idea of power figures.

Basic setup (Il let Dave explain more as im not too sure of the engine internals. C1J, full efi conversion, different cam, good headwork / turbo choice, tubular manifold, external gate and screamer pipe, twin plate clutch

Afew teething problems with the starter, and TPS, also the idle rpm were sorted. Scoff fitted the AEM boost controller and zEITRONICS wideband

Gate pressure was 13lbs car made 180bhp at that. second power setting was set at 210 bhp at (?) amount of boost cant remember exactly . Finally the third boost setting was set at 31lbs where the car made 263 bhp with a pretty save map. Could probably have eeked afew more ponies out by leaning off the fueling but scoff decided to keep things safe

A great day out yesterday, everyone was happy. Ive ended up with manifold / turbo burns on my arms playing with the starter on a hot engine isn't fun !!

Il let the others reply to this thread with any more specific info. Ive got some pics and vids which il try and upload later today

[GT Josh]

Sweet

[Logg]

Well done lads should make an interesting hillclimb car with 260 odd ponies un the hood.

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

....another epic journey for myself and kris.....

Firstly... all the thanks, I must thank dave {reed} for all his endless phonecalls on what goes where and what should it do questions etc etc..., dave is a smashing bloke, whomb I cant eccomend enough as a genuine, helpful and honest rtoc bod!!!!, secondly.... to kris... for letting me stay at his and coming all the way to help out and just keep ole matty company, couldn't off done it without you!!!, lastly to scoff, for his proffessionalisim, patience, and all of his expertise!!!, he is a true gent with an outstanding knowledge of these car and all things efi!!!, he also put up with our banter all day and kris necking ten fosters.......all epic people!!!

what a great day, we had a few teething probs as kris said, just silly things, im going to put these right now im back, things like soft peddle conversion, oe starter, etc.
we got the car on the rollers and I must say..i was nervous...
after a few tweeks here and there scoff set about sorting the idle and fuelling etc.. then onto the mapping. This went very well...as you can see above.. and I left buzzing from the prospect of using the car on the hills...

highlight for me of the day was when scoff said to me, the clutch cable had stretched so much etc and despite our packing out of it he couldn't get any gears....
He said to me...no bother , lets go for a final push... he stuck a spanner in between the washers etc and cable tied it to it.... and got a 263bhp run...
love it , just love it!!!!!, a fantastic day with some great people.....

Got a list of things now...lsd box is already in, willwoods are next and a general tidy up etc... watch this space...

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

ps kris , get some of those pics up buddy....

[*Yellow*]

Well done guys, Epic road trip
That will be interesting on the hills Matty.....

Oli`s racing his EFI conversion at Brands next week with me, going to be interesting, he also got good numbers especially torque figures.

[Scoff]

One of the best C1J I've come across, it makes staggering power and a nice broad torque curve without too much RPM. I run lots of C1J on the dyno, most good examples will make 140hp at 13.5psi. Matty / Daves averaged just over 180hp. To me that's more impressive than the 260+hp. But we knew Daves engine was a good-un so it didn't come as too much of a suprise

PS for Daves info, my adjustments were minimal, probably accounting for a different exhaust, regulator, etc....

Also, I've got to say, work doesn't feel like work when you've got Matty and Kris to keep you entertained ! Any time I start a day involving an R5 there is a certain amount of dread but those two soon turned it in to an enjoyable day for me too

[Wallace]

Nice one Matty (and Chris obviously)

Must be chuffed to bits with that amount of horses

[Kris M]

im struggling to upload the pics. Anyone I can email them to and try to upload them ? thanks

[andybond]

abond at giraffe it dot com

[GTphil]

awesome power for 13lb boost was that with a lot of ignition timing work?

[B18ftMOJO5]

Wow thats sounds like an awsome engine. Good work mate.

[Pigsnake]

Nice one Matty and not forgetting Kris .can't wait to see this on the hill climbs..

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Thanks for all of those that have replied..., to answer phils question, yes quite a bit of advance..., scoff did comment on this during mapping.
Got some of the parts together today I need to rectify some of the niggles we had during the day, going to se if I can steal another day to sort it all.
Also need to get some good tyres....................

[Kris M]

cheers andy, email sent

[andybond]

[LiamR]

Good job with great figures

Just to reiterate re Dave Reed-a top lad. He came to mine and spent a good few hours getting my 5 running for me

[Dave Reed]

Thanks for all the kind words guy's.

Jesus get it up that hill now mate and have fun with it! I hope you are pleased with the final out come.. PS forget that soft pedal conversion, I drove it on the road like it is & with welded diffs

Scoff still think you could of leaned it out a little more Glad you was impressed with it, it's many years of development..

Get some vids up too if you got any, would like to here the old girl running again, i have been missing it now the nice weathers here

[Kris M]

Dave what's your email address I'll send you some vids

[Dave Reed]

Dave what's your email address I'll send you some vids

Pm'd mate.. Thank you.

[Woznaldo]

Wow, sounds like an epic day and a top result. Well done to all involved. Good RTOC effort.

[Kris M]

Dave I cant email the videos as they are they are too big ?!

[*Yellow*]

Put them on the tube Kris.

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Thanks for all the kind words guy's.

Jesus get it up that hill now mate and have fun with it! I hope you are pleased with the final out come.. PS forget that soft pedal conversion, I drove it on the road like it is & with welded diffs

Scoff still think you could of leaned it out a little more Glad you was impressed with it, it's many years of development..

Get some vids up too if you got any, would like to here the old girl running again, i have been missing it now the nice weathers here

thanks dave..... can I ask did you get problems with clutch cables etc, I just think mine was stretched to start with....

trying to decide whether or not to go back into road going with it or man up and stick to modified production..., quite a few things to put back in if I do... it weigh faff all at the mo and I reckon I can get it lighter, maybe I should just try to better my personal times as I have so far, rather than seek a class win...
most people have said don't use the willwoods...think of the weight, I reckon it might help to put the power down...

[Hoolio]

I was going to ask what category you race in

[Dave Reed]

Put them on the tube Kris.

+1

[Dave Reed]

thanks dave..... can I ask did you get problems with clutch cables etc, I just think mine was stretched to start with....

trying to decide whether or not to go back into road going with it or man up and stick to modified production..., quite a few things to put back in if I do... it weigh faff all at the mo and I reckon I can get it lighter, maybe I should just try to better my personal times as I have so far, rather than seek a class win...
most people have said don't use the willwoods...think of the weight, I reckon it might help to put the power down...

No mate I only ever broke one clutch cable on the road, and it didn't snap it just folded the cable over at the g/b end (that's why I had that metal sleeve made up ).

I'd say man the fook up and stop about it
All in or all out

[Brigsy]

Marms said its a pattern part cable fitted jesus? Get an o.e lashed on there it will be fine, no gay long arm conversion, real man pedal

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Marms said its a pattern part cable fitted jesus? Get an o.e lashed on there it will be fine, no gay long arm conversion, real man pedal

reet ya are briggs..... work out like..., got one and its going on.. soft pedal will have to wait....

[RussellT]

Consumed with envy at those output figures what a stonking engine she will fly. Try and get some Advan Neova AD08 tyres to fit to get the most out of that power unless you are in the slick shod class.

[Trevhib]

Great results. 260hp and 31psi on a C1J

Any chance of the full spec (generally speaking), to potentially help other people follow suit?

[5teve L]

Nice result ! Especially at 13.5 psi as Chris rightly says

[HAndy]

Great results. 260hp and 31psi on a C1J

Any chance of the full spec (generally speaking), to potentially help other people follow suit?

its good.......... but not that good

if you want bigger bhp, then here you go.......... fit a bigger blower, (internal gated 3071r) or 2871r with a big turbine housing, nice front mount etc, get the fueling right, fit a nice free flowing exhaust manifold and 3"system, pump up to 30psi+ and there you have it

glens old c1j is still up there 445bhp @ 38psi
the ultimate c1j

i will sit back now,......... and wait for the back lash

[Dave Reed]

its good.......... but not that good

if you want bigger bhp, then here you go.......... fit a bigger blower, (internal gated 3071r) or 2871r with a big turbine housing, nice front mount etc, get the fueling right, fit a nice free flowing exhaust manifold and 3"system, pump up to 30psi+ and there you have it

glens old c1j is still up there 445bhp @ 38psi
the ultimate c1j

i will sit back now,......... and wait for the back lash

Very ture and exactly what I told Jesus.. Bigger blower + gas will easy make those numbers, however it's now fitted to a hill climb car and needs to last more than 5 seconds at a time


Remember, when I ran it with the gas and (65 - 70hp) it managed an 11.22 @ 125/6 (can't remember now), so the engine has made more with the turbo it has fitted. It's been mapped safer than when I ran it too, which again is completely up to the person who owns it now.

[Dave Reed]

To add to that though glens done it and my old lump didn't lol.. But theoretically speaking I think it would still make more power with what u and I have mentioned..

I wonder what glens made at 13.5 psi? Scoff may remember, but then I guess a bigger turbo would make more at lower boost as well as higher boost..

I think Phils 5 made 280 something at 26psi, but that's a bigger blower too, I think..

[HAndy]

true, i guess the real question is.... how much are people willing to spend to get the bigger numbers

good results for a c1j , and as mentioned will make a nice /reliable hill climb/sprint car,

maybe the next stage is to fit composite panels and push for low 700kgs or even less

[GTphil]

I love the fact that dave/glenn both pushed the c1j as far as they did, we must also not forget Stuart Clark as did he not trap at 120+mph on a carb'd c1j with no nitrous

if I remember rightly he had some gear ratio trickery also.

All three of you seriously achieved something with the lowly 1.4 8v ohv engine with a cylinder head that would be better placed on a lawnmower

It's also interesting how you both had custom spec camshafts, I know Glenn initially had a 285 but he changed to one that scoff had made years ago for his old c1j.

Would it be cheeky to ask for some cam specifications??

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

true, i guess the real question is.... how much are people willing to spend to get the bigger numbers

good results for a c1j , and as mentioned will make a nice /reliable hill climb/sprint car,

maybe the next stage is to fit composite panels and push for low 700kgs or even less

spot on h`...andy...

must say im well impressed with it as it is and think that the maps chris did on it with me are bang on..., three choices of boost , all very good..not too mention safe.
I wanted efi for reliability at this power and being able to tune it better etc.
Im just looking to make the car as good as I can now etc... it has a quaiffe lsd , ive decided to use the willwoods and get some new avon slicks... ouch..
Im loving it so far etc, as I said to scoff, I d like it to idle nice, run well and on a safe map, if I get 240bhp then great.... he managed it all and more....
as its for mainly hillclimbs... gas would be intresting.., it also makes full boost at 4k or there abouts so its ideal for my use....

[philr5t]

Cracking result Jesus and to all involved you should be well chuffed with the final result mate not many 5's seem to make more than 240 bhp and you are well passed that amount with reliability on your side to it seems to be a well built engine mate still with more potential and it sounds like the blower is spot on remember huge blowers = huge lag

Phil

[Tony Walker]

huge blowers = huge slag

Phil

Quite a statement there but i would tend to agree.

Fantastic work guys, very impressive results... just makes me want efi even more

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

Cracking result Jesus and to all involved you should be well chuffed with the final result mate not many 5's seem to make more than 240 bhp and you are well passed that amount with reliability on your side to it seems to be a well built engine mate still with more potential and it sounds like the blower is spot on remember huge blowers = huge lag

Phil

cheers phil....... appreciated.

[TNT ANDY]

Likewise to all comments Jeez - well done m8, you goto be happy.

[Scoff]

its good.......... but not that good

if you want bigger bhp, then here you go.......... fit a bigger blower, (internal gated 3071r) or 2871r with a big turbine housing, nice front mount etc, get the fueling right, fit a nice free flowing exhaust manifold and 3"system, pump up to 30psi+ and there you have it

glens old c1j is still up there 445bhp @ 38psi
the ultimate c1j

i will sit back now,......... and wait for the back lash

I think we did 460hp at 41psi with Glenns, but that was with gas of course. He was going over 130mph trap in the end but it just didn't want to do that 10.9 we so badly wanted to see ! His did 360hp without gas I think (41psi).

From memory Daves engine was breathing about the same, we did some good low-boost numbers from Glenns too. The bits you mention are importand Andy but a lot of the work is in the cylinder head and camshaft though, thats where the development is. I'm sure Dave will say the same. Most engines you get to a point, usually somewhere in the low 20psi range where increasing the boost yeilds no more power, only EGT goes up and maybe peak torque. Thats us maxing the cylinder head out.

The big turbo at low boost isn't neccessarily going to make more power than a correctly sized smaller turbo. It's about being efficient, not big.

[Scoff]

To add to that though glens done it and my old lump didn't lol.. But theoretically speaking I think it would still make more power with what u and I have mentioned..

I wonder what glens made at 13.5 psi? Scoff may remember, but then I guess a bigger turbo would make more at lower boost as well as higher boost..

I think Phils 5 made 280 something at 26psi, but that's a bigger blower too, I think..

I think Phil did 270hp at 27psi if I remember ? That was another good setup. At this rate people will think my dyno is 10% high, but it's only the exceptional cases that get mentioned like this. I assure everyone that the less extreme cars make the HP you would expect

[HAndy]

I think we did 460hp at 41psi with Glenns, but that was with gas of course. He was going over 130mph trap in the end but it just didn't want to do that 10.9 we so badly wanted to see ! His did 360hp without gas I think (41psi).

From memory Daves engine was breathing about the same, we did some good low-boost numbers from Glenns too. The bits you mention are importand Andy but a lot of the work is in the cylinder head and camshaft though, thats where the development is. I'm sure Dave will say the same. Most engines you get to a point, usually somewhere in the low 20psi range where increasing the boost yeilds no more power, only EGT goes up and maybe peak torque. Thats us maxing the cylinder head out.

The big turbo at low boost isn't neccessarily going to make more power than a correctly sized smaller turbo. It's about being efficient, not big.

to be honest Chris i didnt want to go too in depth on engine breathing , as i didnt want to hijack the post anymore than i had done already

although now were on the subject,have you ever mapped any of the few c1j engines out there with the crossflow heads on, i always thought andy cooks engine was a bit special, and was capable of more, but he was the quiet type, and never really posted to much

[philr5t]

I think Phil did 270hp at 27psi if I remember ? That was another good setup. At this rate people will think my dyno is 10% high, but it's only the exceptional cases that get mentioned like this. I assure everyone that the less extreme cars make the HP you would expect

25.4 psi

[TNT ANDY]

I think Phil did 270hp at 27psi if I remember ? That was another good setup. At this rate people will think my dyno is 10% high, but it's only the exceptional cases that get mentioned like this. I assure everyone that the less extreme cars make the HP you would expect

I hope it's not +10% or I'm in real ****.

[TNT ANDY]

Listen up ladies

Scoff says "It's about being efficient, not big. "

[GTphil]

I hope it's not +10% or I'm in real ****.

That's what I was thinking,

[Sparkie]

although now were on the subject,have you ever mapped any of the few c1j engines out there with the crossflow heads on, i always thought andy cooks engine was a bit special, and was capable of more, but he was the quiet type, and never really posted to much

don't forget the turbo2 with its crappy mechanical injection and dodgy mechanical dizzy will get 185bhp at 15psi.... i remember Moggy getting good power when he swapped to EFI....