Well it is for me.
Off to get re-mapped after adjusting my cam timing from 129 deg back to Pipers 112deg. Should make a nice bit of difference fingers crossed.
Well it is for me.
Off to get re-mapped after adjusting my cam timing from 129 deg back to Pipers 112deg. Should make a nice bit of difference fingers crossed.
Last edited by TNT ANDY; 12-07-2012 at 06:12.
good stuff andy look forward to seeing the results
My guess is you will most probably be astonished at the difference
Hope it all goes to plan
Originally Posted by TNT ANDY
I know, it was a re- grind me thinks. I've been running this like this for about 6 or 7 years LMFAO.
At 129deg thats almost like the cam was a tooth out
Don't break the dyno, I'm booked in tomorrow
how did you get on with this andy?
Oh dear oh dear oh dear
Not a good day.
Started @ 5 am Saturday finished at 1am this morning. To say I am dissapointed is an undertatement! The golden figure I have is 193 bhp which is 10 bhp from what I rolled out with last time. Not only that, I now have leaky oil issues from the timing chain cover, a stripped thread on the vernier, the vernier has some play in it also on the end of the cam and a weeping head gasket.
It doesn't rev well either.
So all in all - a pretty **** day.
10/10 for Scoff again though, he didn't turn me away and we cracked on until we'd tried everything we could. I have some more measuring to do in respect to breathing, the cam may be worn or there may be some restriction in the exhaust. Another thought I have had is that the TB may be too small. I've gone for a 40mm TB.
Time to do some research!
with 194 bhp I seriously doubt it. It's a bit dirty now though - Sorry ScoffDon't break the dyno, I'm booked in tomorrow
Hope yours gets on ok.
Sorry to hear that andy am sure you will get it sorted tho. If your after a throttle.bodie why not consider a rover k series 48mm one they are very cheap to buy.
Bugger thats not good matenow mine is close to being done i could give you a few Tuesday nights helping out. Will also help put some miles on mine
I have a lancia 60mm TB which will bolt straight on, I need to do a bit of research to see if that's the right way to go before just sticking it on.
LOL - I've got a bit of cleaning up to do and a few oil leaks to sort out now, also measure the cam lift as that may be a problem also. Feel free to pop over, It'll be great to see ol' spidey on the road again.Bugger thats not good mate
Bollox mate ain't it after all the effort are ya taking the engine out againOh dear oh dear oh dear
Not a good day.
Started @ 5 am Saturday finished at 1am this morning. To say I am dissapointed is an undertatement! The golden figure I have is 193 bhp which is 10 bhp from what I rolled out with last time. Not only that, I now have leaky oil issues from the timing chain cover, a stripped thread on the vernier, the vernier has some play in it also on the end of the cam and a weeping head gasket.
It doesn't rev well either.
So all in all - a pretty **** day.
10/10 for Scoff again though, he didn't turn me away and we cracked on until we'd tried everything we could. I have some more measuring to do in respect to breathing, the cam may be worn or there may be some restriction in the exhaust. Another thought I have had is that the TB may be too small. I've gone for a 40mm TB.
Time to do some research!
im pretty sure i read 60mm might be too big for a c1j, am sure scoff will put me right though, another one to consider which is between the 2 we have mentioned is again off the k series this time off the mgzr160 which is 52mm
Honestly fella, I think the cam will be the problem not the size of the throttle body, just look how much power people are getting through a 25mm carb.
I had the 60mm lancia throttle body on mine and all it did was make the power delivery very snappy and not nice to drive round town. I'd stick with the body u got and get that cam out and measured properly
Woooaaahhh! Steady fella - yes the engine will be coming out, but not yet. I'm gonna look at the cam and various other bits for the time being. I've been all too quick in the past to whip it out on an arbetry whim.
Hey andy just a thought would a piper 300 cam be better suited if ur doing alot of track days.
I'm gonna have a look around for guidance on this point. I thought that 40mm would be more than enough, but that's just going off random comments here and there. If it is too small and the Lancia one is too big then I will be hunting an MGZR one down. That said - I do have a 45mm Laguna one to go on. Hmmmmmmm
Possibly - mine might be absolutely fooked, a standard one may be better LOL. I believe the Cat Cam as in the Cam wizard is the one to go for.
All this said - my turbo was designed and built for 200bhp - I'll get the exact specs up and see what people think. I may just have maxed it out.
Whats your turbo then fella might be able upgrade it quite easily
bad luck fella, looks like the curse of the EFI C1J has struck again, oli had similar issues but he just gave up
what i recon u need is an AEM uego and a tubular manifold to build it back up with again
I didn't give up completely, I got it working but decided it no longer suited what I wanted from the carbad luck fella, looks like the curse of the EFI C1J has struck again, oli had similar issues but he just gave up
what i recon u need is an AEM uego and a tubular manifold to build it back up with again
it's a T28 - but the spec is not known atm. it's got a 55 trim and that's all I know atm.
I'm not to have any probs yet with c1j efi on a vnt mate with a little bit more work Andy your get it doing what you want it to dobad luck fella, looks like the curse of the EFI C1J has struck again, oli had similar issues but he just gave up
what i recon u need is an AEM uego and a tubular manifold to build it back up with again
Hi Phil - glad yours is going well, Scoff did mention you yesterday, I don't think you've been to him, but he keeps his eyes peeled on all things EFi.I'm not to have any probs yet with c1j efi on a vnt mate with a little bit more work Andy your get it doing what you want it to do
Efi is worth the initial hassle, Emma car has done over 50,000 miles from when I done it.
I will be converting my 5 in the winter as I have all the parts to do it now.
Chris
Hi Andy yes I have been to see scoff he basically done all my loom put it on a base map, then an oil change then all the full throttle mapping I have not been back to scoff since he finished mine in may but at the mo all seems well just have one small prob that I caused but I'll soon get round that I will try and get back up to Chris late this year or next year for some more mapping with hopefully a more advanced and modified turbo unit To get more power just wish scoff could move down south
What power do you wanna try and get to mate
Well fook me, I think I've got it. If Im reading stuff right, God only knows what has happened to my cam, but I've checked lift on 1,2,3 and 4 and I'm only seeing 6.5mm of lift
I thought I'd bought a piper 285 many moons ago, it came in a piper 285 box and looked legit, but it can't have been.
I've had a shade over 200 bhp, which felt great, but Scoff was not happy how hard it was to achieve this. I guess my aim is not how much power do I want, but more get it running as it should. And that's why I go the extra 250 miles and take it to Scoff, because he knows the difference between a well set up 5 and those that are not well set up. I bet if I went to any local RR, they would be over the moon in getting 193 bhp out of a 1.4 8v push rod engine.Hi Andy yes I have been to see scoff he basically done all my loom put it on a base map, then an oil change then all the full throttle mapping I have not been back to scoff since he finished mine in may but at the mo all seems well just have one small prob that I caused but I'll soon get round that I will try and get back up to Chris late this year or next year for some more mapping with hopefully a more advanced and modified turbo unit To get more power just wish scoff could move down south
What power do you wanna try and get to mate
Hope the cam sorts it Andy, I use a 50mm single jenvy body and it is excellent, perfectly matched to the engine IMO.
Not too expensive either! your welcome to come for a spin at ND and see what you think mate
That would be great if I could and the standard cam is 7.5mm lift, so I can't see why it wouldn't. Scoff kept saying ' it's just not breathing right'Hope the cam sorts it Andy, I use a 50mm single jenvy body and it is excellent, perfectly matched to the engine IMO.
Not too expensive either! your welcome to come for a spin at ND and see what you think mate
Where did u get this cam from Andy? Has someone sold u a campus job maybe?
CTM enginneering in Essex - a long time ago with Handy.
I seem to remember it being in piper box and everything, it all looked legit.
Handy may be able to shed some light on this.
Have the lobes ground down over time maybe??
Did you use new followers or at least have them checked first?
Just clutching at straws really!
Needs to come out and be looked are
New followers used - I'd say 4mm of wear is a bit more than I would expect.Have the lobes ground down over time maybe??
Did you use new followers or at least have them checked first?
Just clutching at straws really!
Needs to come out and be looked are
It'll be coming out alright, I'll get some photo's up once it's out.
Just to put the record straight - I don't think CTM have sold me a crap cam TBH, I might be wrong, but it's been in for near on 7 years and there are far too many factors to consider before suggesting that that may be the case. I know what I've got at the moment and I'm going to go forward from there.
Anyway - back on topic please.
Hi Andy, is that 6.x mm of lift at the valve or pushrod ? Rocker ratio is 1.5:1 so you must multiply cam lift by 1.5.
sorry you didnt get the results you were after Andy
firstly your throttle bodie should not be a problem although , you need to measure your boost pipe dia, for best flow throttle should be same size or slightly bigger than the rest of the boost system in the ideal world the engine will take what it takes ,but by flow matching the dia, there is no bottle necks to over come
secondly according to pipercams you should have somewhere around 9.96mm of lift inlet/9.91mm exhaust, they do vary a bit,but i dont think for one minute your cams are 285 profileeither way that profile should be more than upto the job for the power your after , a bp300 cam might be to much unless you want to run a bigger turbo more airflow/boost and a better flowing manifold system with less reversion /pulsing issues (a well designed tubular will help here) overlap might still be a problem, but for country roads, will be more laggy and a bit boring
your turbo might also be a restriction, what were your air temps and egt temps on the rollers, your exhaust is 2 1/2"diameter system, so thats not the problem ,regardlesss of the twin silencer set up.
if it were me , i would whip the cam out and get a dial gauge on it before you do anything,(surprised you did'nt do that before you fitted it to be honest
you might need to increase turbine size/change trim to help flow exhaust better, stop it from bottle necking /backing up, fitting that tubular will help as well, make sure you get it braced , as it will help prevent cracking
That's Pushrod that was which gives us the magic 9mm. Smeg, thought I'd solved it then.Hi Andy, is that 6.x mm of lift at the valve or pushrod ? Rocker ratio is 1.5:1 so you must multiply cam lift by 1.5.
you might still have. BP285 should have 9.9mm so 6.6mm required at the pushrod. If you DTI at the valve remember to take in to account valve clearance, so maybe 9.7mm to be expected there.
Cheers Andy - I think it might be the turbo - I've emailed CR Turbo's, lets see what they come back with in regard to my turbo and it may be that that is on it's limit.sorry you didnt get the results you were after Andy
firstly your throttle bodie should not be a problem although , you need to measure your boost pipe dia, for best flow throttle should be same size or slightly bigger than the rest of the boost system in the ideal world the engine will take what it takes ,but by flow matching the dia, there is no bottle necks to over come
secondly according to pipercams you should have somewhere around 9.96mm of lift inlet/9.91mm exhaust, they do vary a bit,but i dont think for one minute your cams are 285 profile
your turbo might also be a restriction, what were your air temps and egt temps on the rollers, your exhaust is 2 1/2"diameter system, so thats not the problem ,regardlesss of the twin silencer set up.
if it were me , i would whip the cam out and get a dial gauge on it before you do anything,(surprised you did'nt do that before you fitted it to be honest
you might need to increase turbine size/change trim to help flow exhaust better, stop it from bottle necking /backing up, fitting that tubular will help as well, make sure you get it braced , as it will help prevent cracking
I'll go and have another crack at it, I'll measure at the valve.
regardless what CR Turbo's tell you, the real test of truth will be in the rr print out, it will give you an idea of whats happening along the curve,your air temps /egt temps will give you a good idea of where things are going wrong, Cr will only be able to give you a ball park figure for your engine , after that its quess work, you might aswell bend over and have the full hot air treatment
Yup they are all up at the 9.4 - 9.9 lift on the back of the valve spring cap thingy. My DTI is not overly accurate, but I'm reasonably happy that it is a 285.
I'll post up the turbo spec as soon as I've got it and see what everyone thinks. Thanks for your help.
If its a 285cam then the turbo is the next logical step
Ahem....
Right, got a response from cr turbo's. I don't actually have a T28, what I do have is a GT2560R. This +ight explain a thing or 2.
I'm not overly convinced this Is true, so I'll have the turbo off and measure that also.
Last edited by TNT ANDY; 09-07-2012 at 14:24.
What size rear do you have? If its a proper gt2560r you should see over 200 easily??
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