£££+ideas=speed

[Red October]

right guys ive got about a grand to spend on increasing my bhp and not much in the way of ideas of modding my R5

the car is A1 mint all round with no signs of deterioration whatsoever so its no gamble tuning up the engine.

ive currently got:
Uprated pistons and liners
Lightweight fly wheel
Volvo 480 gearbox+ clutch
Hybrid T25 turbo
Uprated pace intercooler
Ported and polished cylinder head
Rejetted carb with large VENTURI (wideband setup)
Custom big downpipe with wideband sensor
Full stainless decat system with 3" powerflex exhaust
Samco boost hose kit
Large Forge dump valve

the car is pretty fast and never been dyno'd but considering i only drive it once a week the reliability issues of running big boost wouldnt be a problem

the only problem i can see is that the head has clearly been skimmed a few times hence the reason im at 14-16psi of boost.

cheers rtocers i look forward to ideas

[SirSamuelOfBuca]

480 engine with custom 285 cam
And a gt2560r

Grand spent 230+bhp

[Red October]

480 engine with custom 285 cam
And a gt2560r

Grand spent 230+bhp

cheers bruca, although a engine change would appear the way forward, Mr insurance man definatley says no! points definatley dont make prizes

maxing the c1j out is the only option for at least 24 months, run it until it explodes the ill go down the 480t route.

[Tony Walker]

if compressions a little higher then upping boost alongside mapable ignition would poss be your best and safest bet?

[Red October]

if compressions a little higher then upping boost alongside mapable ignition would poss be your best and safest bet?

cheers Tony, how can i raise the compression? cams/pistons?
Also how much should i be looking at moneywise and what kind of power figures would said mod plus the other mods achieve?

[Tony Walker]

i meant with the head being skimmed. The power would come from safely upping the boost pressure with some fueling mods(v cheap) then safely tuning ignition timing with a mapable ecu scoffs offering for power and peace of mind.

[Tony Walker]

i think scoffs got something available around £5-600?

[SCHWARTZ]

Free mods first if its higher comp is retard the timing by knocking the tdc sensor foward a bit. with a grand is prob go mappable ignition tho megajolt something like that. Also they didn't mind my capacity increase just wanted to know if it had any more power, luckily it didnt

[Red October]

thanks, am doing a little research on ecu's now. with my mods ive already got and a mappable ecu i should surely be around the 160-170bhp figures???

[Red October]

Free mods first if its higher comp is retard the timing by knocking the tdc sensor foward a bit. with a grand is prob go mappable ignition tho megajolt something like that. Also they didn't mind my capacity increase just wanted to know if it had any more power, luckily it didnt

cheers schwartz, could you elaborate on what you meant in the last sentance.

[Tony Walker]

you'd prob be able to run more like 18-20 psi which should be good to 180+

[Red October]

i think scoffs got something available around £5-600?

what do i get for my money mate and how much should i be looking at spending for the fit (if its too complex for myself)?

[Red October]

to be honest justin from stoke is doing all my work on the car and he's gonna provide me with a plan on what to do with my lump, a grand for parts and some for labour will hopefully go a long way

[Tony Walker]

To be honest you have the parts for more than enough power. no labour needed, you could even up the boost retard ignition a little sort the fueling for pennies and it would be around the 180. mapable ignition is just the way id go if i had £500 spare.

[Os8472]

Sell the intercooler, turbo and dump valve, buy a big front mount intercooler, T28 turbo and 285 cam, get the carb jetted to safely run 20psi and retard the ignition 200bhp+ no probs

[Red October]

Sell the intercooler, turbo and dump valve, buy a big front mount intercooler, T28 turbo and 285 cam, get the carb jetted to safely run 20psi and retard the ignition 200bhp+ no probs

cheers pal, i take it the above parts would cost about a grand? ive gotta be looking at £600 for labour aswel surely?

for the sake of 20 odd bhp between a mappable ecu and fueling @£5-600 against £1000-1300 for a bigger turbo etc is a difficult decision considering the latter has more big power options for the future.

safety or adrenaline.....hmmmmmmmm

[Os8472]

All depends on how much u sell the old bits for and buying smart when it comes to the new bits and not paying tuner prices, eBay is your friend when it comes to finding cheaper parts.

Labour cost are a ball ache, changing the turbo and intercooler isn't difficult, the carb and cam are more fidderly though, see if u can find another member who's local to u who can show u what to do, the more work u can do yourself the more money u save.

people have been getting 200bhp+ with no problems for years without mappable ignition, yes I agree it has big advantages but I've been there with mine and for all the hassle involved u could go for full multi point fuel injection and squeeze more power out of your current setup while improving reliability, economy and drive ability.

At the end of the day it's gunna be your decision and there are lots of options. A good start would be to know how much your current setup is making and go from there.

[TNT ANDY]

I'd have to agree with Oli in some points, you're probably running out of the T25's map (what is the spec of this turbo?) for 200bhp if it's achievable, a good T28 + mappable and set up by Scoff will spend your grand, get you 200 bhp and a lot of good advice also.

[SCHWARTZ]

cheers schwartz, could you elaborate on what you meant in the last sentance.

All the insurance company wanted to know was how much power it makes. 200bhp 1.4. Costs the same as a 200bhp 1.7

[Red October]

At the end of the day it's gunna be your decision and there are lots of options. A good start would be to know how much your current setup is making and go from there.

im running the car at bluntys dyno day next month so ill know more then, such a long time to wait!

cheers for the info.

[Red October]

I'd have to agree with Oli in some points, you're probably running out of the T25's map (what is the spec of this turbo?) for 200bhp if it's achievable, a good T28 + mappable and set up by Scoff will spend your grand, get you 200 bhp and a lot of good advice also.

i think the turbo is a T25/T2 hybrid but it could be a full blown T25

what do you mean by running out of the map mate?

looks like im swinging towards a T28 with the mappable setup, but ill have to start T28 shopping and look to sell my T25.

[SCHWARTZ]

Every turbo has a map (where it makes best power) the t25 will be out of that and more boost would just make hot air and no more real power. Get a t28 and mappable ign could be done for a grand easily if you do it yourself.

[Romil Davda]

looks like im swinging towards a T28 with the mappable setup, but ill have to start T28 shopping and look to sell my T25.

t28 turbo.

I think its a great deal... I would have picked this up but I have been told that the T28 is a bit laggy. (hence me holding out for a T25!)

Can anyone advise how we could get a T28 to sppool up quicker? Tubliar manifold? What cam is best? Does it matter what the psi set too?

[TNT ANDY]

t28 turbo.

I think its a great deal... I would have picked this up but I have been told that the T28 is a bit laggy. (hence me holding out for a T25!)

Can anyone advise how we could get a T28 to sppool up quicker? Tubliar manifold? What cam is best? Does it matter what the psi set too?

The T28's fine with a .49 rear housing. I'm fully loaded at about 3500 - 3700 which is fine, and if your driving in anger you'll not be below those figures anyway. With the mappable ignition it still feels lively low down and even @ 70mph on the motor way in 4th it pulls well.

[Os8472]

The T28's fine with a .49 rear housing. I'm fully loaded at about 3500 - 3700 which is fine, and if your driving in anger you'll not be below those figures anyway. With the mappable ignition it still feels lively low down and even @ 70mph on the motor way in 4th it pulls well.

[TNT ANDY]

i think the turbo is a T25/T2 hybrid but it could be a full blown T25

what do you mean by running out of the map mate?

looks like im swinging towards a T28 with the mappable setup, but ill have to start T28 shopping and look to sell my T25.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ompressor_maps

[Os8472]

I'll have a T28 with a .49 rear for sale in a couple of months

[Brigsy]

Why all the talk of retarding the ign at lower boost levels?? I run 25 psi standard ign standard comp no knock...

Cheapo ebay fmic, piper 285/valve springs & vernier, get a good standard height head, std venturi carb and up the boost on your current turbo. If its a full t25 with .49 rear it will do 200+hp... Few quid on gaskets and other bits a grand will be gone.

[tubbyG]

I'll have a T28 with a .49 rear for sale in a couple of months

talk to me

[Red October]

Well ive purchased andybond's T28 with a .49 rear housing fitted, 360deg bearings and a cosworth compressor housing tonight.
I will be fitting soon and then sorting out a mappable ign, dependant on the results i may stump up for a piper 285/valve/springs/vernier kit if it helps the situation.

Also looks like the budget is going to get increased, just like the bhp

BIG thanks to everyone who has pointed me in every direction and provide some great ideas.

Variety is the spice of life.................

[Mart]

Running a standard cam with a 'T28' is like smothering Nutella on your Sunday roast - Defo invest in a =>BP285 & vernier

[Red October]

Running a standard cam with a 'T28' is like smothering Nutella on your Sunday roast - Defo invest in a =>BP285 & vernier

Cheers, nice analogy!

Seriously though is the difference between my T25 and new T28 on my current spec engine going to be so vast in terms of bad performance?

Sorry for the newbie quiz but lend me some sugar, i am your neighbour

[Tony Walker]

id say cam before the ignition management, would probably be better money spent and more gain. i thought you allready had a different cam.

[Red October]

UPDATE

Well ive been working on the car with justin (ex ep motorsport) today and made a start on modifications to the lump

Fitted a full samco cooling hose kit, quietened the tappets, swapped the turbo and adjusted the fueling to suit...........also turns out the cams are uprated as she revs to 7,500~8k with no hesitation.


I enjoy the thump at 4k rpm and power of the T28 WOW!
I do not enjoy the lag associated with it (even though i was prepared for this occurance)

Ive decided to keep th full T25 in the shed because its a cracking turbo, faultless mechanically and performance wise. If red october visits the track this year it'll deffo be back on!

Boosts set to 1.7bar and fueling adjusted accordingly.

Only problems encountered are at full boost at 7.5k from 2nd to 3rd...........once 3rd is active at 2k from the upshift the build up is choppy and hesitant (takes 2secs to sort itself out) then is back to normal????? The engine has cut out twice aswel in this high rpm to upshift gear change scenario

I do not have a permament afr and other than the above scenario the car is running faultless.

Before i ring justin and cry like a baby i wonder if there is anything i can do myself to help the situation any suggestions would be appreciated

[DaveMayGTT]

If you paid Justin to set it up and its not right dont touch it yourself. If you touch it and it goes bang theres not a lot of come back. Explain the problem to him.

Maybe needle jet? I dont know much about fuelling

[Tony Walker]

thats alot of pressure not knowing what the fueling is like......

[Red October]

TBH we used afr to setup the carb this afternoon but the problems have only happened tonight when i decided to give it some (lots and lots actually) around town.

The car was sweet earlier at full chat when we setup. Once it spent a couple of hours with me the chopping started........ i may have inflicted damage to my reno

First thing in the morning ill give him a bell, it was a little late tonight considering hes got a baba.

mo power mo problems.......

[Tony Walker]

Imo thats too much pressure, especially without an afr to monitor. Im sure its great fun...... but i would turn it down for now. im sure 1.3-1.5 is just as much fun and a little safer.

[dangerous dave]

the lag of the t28 is like trying to palm one out while mums in the next room.. just when your about up to speed to give it some you have to slow down

it takes away the smiles per mile, but when you do hit da boost, you look like

[andybond]

Nearly died laughing at that picture

[Red October]

Imo thats too much pressure, especially without an afr to monitor. Im sure its great fun...... but i would turn it down for now. im sure 1.3-1.5 is just as much fun and a little safer.

Duly nothed tony, the engine how its built should handle this power as its handled 25~30 before in the past before the de tune. I get what your saying and will probably aquire a AFR asap for peace of mind.

the lag of the t28 is like trying to palm one out while mums in the next room.. just when your about up to speed to give it some you have to slow down

it takes away the smiles per mile, but when you do hit da boost, you look like

Never has a truer statement ever been made
A Focus RS's driver earlier tonight had a face like the dog but the only difference........ it was the other way round

[Tony Walker]

Just think its better to be safe.... Its bogging down for a reason, either too much fuel fouling plugs or too lean.
Engines can handle alot of power when fueled and ignition timing is correct, if its not then it doesnt matter what engine you have it will die. But killing it will be massive fun killed mine against a porsche gt3 rs should never of gone through 4th....

[Red October]

Nearly died laughing at that picture

our dogs have that face sometimes especially the day after theyve stolen left over salt and chilli ribs out of the bin from the chinese

[Brigsy]

I dare say the bogging down is due to fuelling issues

[BluntyR5GTT]

sounds like needle valve might be required, also worth checking what size 2nd stage is. whats the actual spec of ur carb?

[BluntyR5GTT]

iv actually got a brand new 2mm needle valve at my house if u need one.

[LYNCHSTAR]

go and see scoff and get mappable ignition its a lot better with a big turbo mines like a different car well worth the money do away with the standard crappy AEI unit and distributer and cam.

[andybond]

iv actually got a brand new 2mm needle valve at my house if u need one.

If Ash doesnt want that Blunty - Ill have it off you.

[gttjames]

at what boost roughly will you need a 2mm needle valve? And where do you get them from, thanks

[Red October]

go and see scoff and get mappable ignition its a lot better with a big turbo mines like a different car well worth the money do away with the standard crappy AEI unit and distributer and cam.

Cheers, what spec did you have and how much did you pay???